I used to be a tank like you . . .

eliisra · September 2015

Anorak wrote: »

When it comes to this I think it is good. All my friends who tank say it is more fun and more of a challenge. 9/10 you are running with a templar healer too as everyone knows they are superior in every way and the sorc nb and dk healers usually go more dps or off heal. I know templar should not have such power but that is the way ZoS has it atm.

Everyone I know feels the complete opposite lol. It's doable to tank now, but really boring and uninspiring. Many have stopped playing tank altogether, because of the changes. They hate how it's all about resource management in 2.1.

Before the block nerf, tanks could do a wide variety of things. Like contributing more with cc, AoE, roots, debuffs and dps.

But no doubt, people have a different taste when it comes to playing tank. I'm sure there's players, like your friends, who feels this is more fun, focusing hard on staying alive, taunting and keeping resources up.

I'm no fain either as a healer, I admit. Because now(in average groups)I rarely have time to keep up buffs and off-dps. I have to heal spam hard and give stamina constantly, leaving little room for anything else. I cant even help with dps much during execute phase in your average pug, because these people drop like flies as soon as I stop heal spamming and stamina feeding. Denying the templar of the Jesus Beam is cruel

Anorak · September 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Anorak wrote: »

When it comes to this I think it is good. All my friends who tank say it is more fun and more of a challenge. 9/10 you are running with a templar healer too as everyone knows they are superior in every way and the sorc nb and dk healers usually go more dps or off heal. I know templar should not have such power but that is the way ZoS has it atm.

Everyone I know feels the complete opposite lol. It's doable to tank now, but really boring and uninspiring. Many have stopped playing tank altogether, because of the changes. They hate how it's all about resource management in 2.1.

Before the block nerf, tanks could do a wide variety of things. Like contributing more with cc, AoE, roots, debuffs and dps.

But no doubt, people have a different taste when it comes to playing tank. I'm sure there's players, like your friends, who feels this is more fun, focusing hard on staying alive, taunting and keeping resources up.

I'm no fain either as a healer, I admit. Because now(in average groups)I rarely have time to keep up buffs and off-dps. I have to heal spam hard and give stamina constantly, leaving little room for anything else. I cant even help with dps much during execute phase in your average pug, because these people drop like flies as soon as I stop heal spamming and stamina feeding. Denying the templar of the Jesus Beam is cruel

That is a pug group and that is why lol also it makes it more fun also your job is being a tank so dont be mad that you arent block casting and dpsing.

Soleya · September 2015

nordsavage wrote: »

That change would be like cutting magicka regen every time you cast a heal or for the duration heal over time because of healers who only heal or "over heal" in PvP.

Lets not give them any ideas.

Darlgon · September 2015

Anorak wrote: »

When it comes to this I think it is good. All my friends who tank say it is more fun and more of a challenge. 9/10 you are running with a templar healer too as everyone knows they are superior in every way and the sorc nb and dk healers usually go more dps or off heal. I know templar should not have such power but that is the way ZoS has it atm.

Now in terms of needing team support and potions I like that aspect as it MAKES SENSE. 1 dude vs a giant snakes spirit with the power to destroy tamreil good thing his shield is so strong and he is always protected -_- It interesting when the tank calls for a shard when running across vdsa final boss room and the healer throws one as he is full. It shows teamwork and that you help each other and not that the tank is a walking god.

Thanks for highlighting the other change this emphasized/forced. Pretty much, a healer now has to be a temp to throw shards for tanks stamina regen, which DKs and NBs cant.

Timeetyo · September 2015

Playing on console with ~190 CPs DK tank.

Before the update depending on the content I'd balance offense with defense based on the content we were doing putting in as much dps as I could and still stay alive. It was VERY active, engaging, and challenging to balance. Never was I sitting there just holding block and taunting every 13 seconds.

And now....

Doing new content I'm now finding myself unable to spend nearly as many resources for offense and control and during harder content I'm now doing what ZoS wanted to avoid....holding block and taunting every 13s (while watching my bars, hoping for a good guardian proc, and whining for shards/repentance).

The problem comes down to this - with the way regen ticks (every 2s and reset upon block) combined with the number of HUGE hits that must be blocked - there isnt enough time in most content to drop block for 2s and get in heavy or other attacks. So if I can't drop it for a full 2s, then why drop it at all?

Anorak · September 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Anorak wrote: »

When it comes to this I think it is good. All my friends who tank say it is more fun and more of a challenge. 9/10 you are running with a templar healer too as everyone knows they are superior in every way and the sorc nb and dk healers usually go more dps or off heal. I know templar should not have such power but that is the way ZoS has it atm.

Now in terms of needing team support and potions I like that aspect as it MAKES SENSE. 1 dude vs a giant snakes spirit with the power to destroy tamreil good thing his shield is so strong and he is always protected -_- It interesting when the tank calls for a shard when running across vdsa final boss room and the healer throws one as he is full. It shows teamwork and that you help each other and not that the tank is a walking god.

Thanks for highlighting the other change this emphasized/forced. Pretty much, a healer now has to be a temp to throw shards for tanks stamina regen, which DKs and NBs cant.

Lol tell me the last time you saw a sorc or nb healer in vdsa or on an SO hardmode. I never saw any everyone was a templar. This was already the meta and everyone already ran templar healers you can't get mad at ZoS for making the class better when so many people complain how bad it is.

nordsavage · October 2015

There is more to the game than vDSA and SO.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

"No stam regen while blocking, less is more!"

nordsavage · October 2015

I was giving this armor master set a try to see if I could buff armor to out right take hits and even with up to 37k armor it doesn't replace blocking. No matter what it is the stamina replenish mini game. I remember seeing a quote where the devs said and I probably am paraphrasing "No stamina regen while blocking that is insane (insane in the negative)". A bad idea must be like when you hear a bad song, listen to it enough times and it can start to sound good.

ShadowDisciple · October 2015

Deltias guide to DK Tank in IC..very good build..works great.. so its doable and quite easily since you have everything on a platter

nordsavage · October 2015

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Deltias guide to DK Tank in IC..very good build..works great.. so its doable and quite easily since you have everything on a platter

Again "doable" should not be the term for tanking. The term "doable" leads to boring and tedious. As for Deltia and the rest of the cookie cutters they are just posting builds that half the game were already using. First to post is not first to invent.

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2015

but then I took an arrow in the stamina.

KingShocker · October 2015

i'm definitely giving this a little bump love

nordsavage · October 2015

Tanks unite. But please leave a comment with your view or issues with the current system of blocking instead of an out right bump. Bumping is chumming the water for moderators.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

nordsavage wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Deltias guide to DK Tank in IC..very good build..works great.. so its doable and quite easily since you have everything on a platter

Again "doable" should not be the term for tanking. The term "doable" leads to boring and tedious. As for Deltia and the rest of the cookie cutters they are just posting builds that half the game were already using. First to post is not first to invent.

Deltia also happens to be one of the reasons for the nerf.

shugg · October 2015

Also take into account the amount of champ points deltia has, they had 300 on pts and i dont know any one on consuls with that much - as a nightblade tank doing vet IC dungeons i find find the change annoying and i spend alot of my time watching my stam bar... Just feel a bit to much of a punching bag - maybe they need to look at the heavy armour tree to help us tanks - as some one said - tanking is doable and challenging but its less fun

notimetocare · October 2015

nordsavage wrote: »

Tanks unite. But please leave a comment with your view or issues with the current system of blocking instead of an out right bump. Bumping is chumming the water for moderators.

Tanked with nightblade and DK since the patch with suboptimal (cheap) gear setups and have little to know issues. Adapt and overcome.

Armor has a 50% hardcap, kinda obvious that it won't replace block, but with the exception of a few trials bosses you do not have to block everything.

notimetocare · October 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Anorak wrote: »

When it comes to this I think it is good. All my friends who tank say it is more fun and more of a challenge. 9/10 you are running with a templar healer too as everyone knows they are superior in every way and the sorc nb and dk healers usually go more dps or off heal. I know templar should not have such power but that is the way ZoS has it atm.

Now in terms of needing team support and potions I like that aspect as it MAKES SENSE. 1 dude vs a giant snakes spirit with the power to destroy tamreil good thing his shield is so strong and he is always protected -_- It interesting when the tank calls for a shard when running across vdsa final boss room and the healer throws one as he is full. It shows teamwork and that you help each other and not that the tank is a walking god.

Thanks for highlighting the other change this emphasized/forced. Pretty much, a healer now has to be a temp to throw shards for tanks stamina regen, which DKs and NBs cant.

Nope, still heal on my magicka NB just fine. All it requires is a tank that isn't mentally deficient.
For one, heal Templar are the only ones the at can stamp regen. Any temp can shard, most competent temps have repent.
Second, master resto staff.

Sensesfail13 · October 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Deltias guide to DK Tank in IC..very good build..works great.. so its doable and quite easily since you have everything on a platter

Again "doable" should not be the term for tanking. The term "doable" leads to boring and tedious. As for Deltia and the rest of the cookie cutters they are just posting builds that half the game were already using. First to post is not first to invent.

Deltia also happens to be one of the reasons for the nerf.

Doesnt help that he is a complete moron and only in it to make money from people subscribing to his half ass channel.

If it helps Ill re-post my opinion of what happens on a daily basis as a tank now.

"PVE: (Disclaimer: I have tanked all content in game successfully with DK and NB tanks)
I have been relegated to the red headed step child pinata of every group, from a badass tough SoB that could not only grab aggro but support and cc adds... you know... so the dps and healers could focus on their jobs of... dps'ing and healing...
Now I sit in a corner staring at stamina and my taunt debuff... wait, puncture... heal when my pitiful magicka pool allows (and no because of the stamina nerf I cannot put more points into magicka, it doesnt make any sense), puncture, ask for shard, puncture, heal. Mob is dead, I did nothing, My entire PVE gamestyle, out the door. I could keep going on and on with the problems Ive run into with this DLC but I prefer not to... I have a little less trouble on my NB tank but its not much better to tell the truth. Burning application nerf, execution still a major fail, I dont feel dps is even a viable option for us DK's anymore although Doable... is floating around on the forums a lot these days. Ive never wanted doable I strive to be better in and out of game and this was a major uncalled for setback and this has just taken any urge to continue the game from me.

PVP:
So I have always loved being that front man, first into the pack, CC talon caltrop... you name it. Being that tough *** just being a nuisance in combat leaving my guildmates and groupmates to worry about the flow of combat while I try to centralize attack on me. It was alot of fun, I have now been declawed. No more defensive playstyle no more supportive playstyle. I feel like pvp is being relegated to whack-a-mole and I hate it. I have seen the builds by other DK players that focus more on single combat attack playstyles while still being defensive, although thats cool and I am super happy that my DK brethren have found a light in the dark when it comes to this patch. Im just not seeing it. I cant support my group I cant even kill the PVE mobs without help. My defenses just flop because of the stamina nerf and I have no urge to go dps, yet again, not my playstyle.

Im sure there will be a lot of people that find things wrong with what I have said here, and personally, I dont care. I think that these lazy blanket nerfs have effected a LOT more people negatively than they have positively, and that goes for DK and Templar players that play their classes effectively more than most. Personally, Im finding it very hard to continue playing, my DK is my main, Ive put WEEKS of gameplay just into him. Ive spent hundreds of dollars on this game and overall PVE and PVP is boring or unplayable ( but doable, thanks, Eric Wroebel And Rich Lambert) and my entire playstyle, also all of my equipment, is now worthless"

We should not be looking for excuses why not to complain about this *** patch we should be raising our voices for change and the betterment of our game, instead we have these naysaying *** everywhere who have a vested interest in the game NOT being better because either the nerfs made them stronger in comparison to last patch because they werent good players last patch or because their playstyles werent really nerfed in comparison to others since last patch. Either way, Im sick of hearing from dps and trolls about how there are no problems and we should get over it. Tanks are not rocks and this game doesnt play like other MMO's we are more of a detriment standing around then we are a tank. I want my *** versatility back, and I want my stamina regen back or nerf magicka regen while fighting that'll just teach everyone and then everybody will be on the same page.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

Unfortunately, @Sensesfail13 , quite a few tanks rather thank master for the nerfs they receive, rather than caring about the true issues of their role, because they get a chance to signal how awesome of a player they are by continuing to tank despite master's nerf.

Klblk · October 2015

yes, i think tanks cant regen theire stamina (((

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INpNb4QQWkM

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2015

There isnt much incentive to pvp tank, thats for sure. I think problem can be summed up with a few issues:

1) Blocking and rolling are not really viable. This really hurts the stamina focused tank.
2) Damage and most shields/armor scale off dps stats (mag and stam). Health is lifeless stat that scales nothing except sun shield, an ability that has been quadruple nerfed into uselessness. Health, the tank stat should scale or modify all mitigation if it is to match dps, which it does not.
3) Tanking is clunky and graceless now. It has become a very low dps, low support, watch your bars waiting game. Before the recent patch it was exciting. My tanks didn't win any dps records, but they could be very annoying with skills like caltrops, reverb bash, etc. The tank has lost too much support activity, and has become the boring example of what ta.ks can be in an mmo.

Sensesfail13 · October 2015

@Personofsecrets Too true, and it is sad.

sidhighwind21b14_ESO · October 2015

They need to fix the aggro in the game it's pain the ass as a Templar to hold aggro on more then one target in fight with no hard CC like a root. give use a AOE taunt or some form of AOE spell that does damage an also taunts more then one target. I pretty sure it wouldn't be too hard to add a taunt to spells like Puncturing Sweep or Burning Breath.

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2015

sidhighwind21b14_ESO wrote: »

They need to fix the aggro in the game it's pain the ass as a Templar to hold aggro on more then one target in fight with no hard CC like a root. give use a AOE taunt or some form of AOE spell that does damage an also taunts more then one target. I pretty sure it wouldn't be too hard to add a taunt to spells like Puncturing Sweep or Burning Breath.

Why not make blazing spear an aoe cc like talons. I have thought this all along.

nordsavage · October 2015

This is not an individual ability changes thread please keep it related to the zero stamina regen while blocking problem or at least include how these abilities are directly made inadequate by the change.

aialghannam_ESO · October 2015

I was reading the recent patch notes hoping they'd given us our stamina regen back to how it was. Disappointed that I found nothing.
They need to do it fast. Haven't played the game in weeks because of it. Tanking is so boring now and I don't wanna play other classes. i invested too much on my tank already.

winterbornb14_ESO · October 2015

They are betting on you spending more money and time to grind for new gear so you can L2Tank with that arrow in your knee.
Z0$..............

nordsavage · October 2015

Well I updated my undaunted sets to v16 and crafted 5 pieces of Armor Master to v16 gold. I am a very talented player but none of this makes tanking any more engaging or fun in its current state. Even a month later it does not feel natural. You know when something works because it becomes a subconscious effort. With the nerf, at least for me, tanking stays a very conscious effort to work around this hobbling and unnatural balancing act. The new dungeons most certainly do not feel like they were designed to embrace this change. I have a shield for a reason let me use it.

bigboss07 · October 2015

Love the change it shows you the good tanks. Champion points really help you but some tanks couldn't manage there resources before and struggle and yell for shards ever second. I have a DK and a Templar Tank/healer just for me I enjoy a challenge.