Nerf/Fix Wrecking Blow / Fix CC Immunity!

Jeckll · October 2015

alt3rEgo wrote: »

Is there any other Skill in this Game with three Abilities? I mean high damage, stun and damage booster?

Surprise Attack

Damage
Major Fracture
Major Ward (Shadow Barrier)
Major Resolve (Shadow Barrier)
Stuns from Stealth/Invisible

Trashy Boy · October 2015

I agree WB CC- break free immunity is not working correctly and have had many problems with WB spammers, quite often in mass battles or at the hands of the obnoxious NB gankers in IC my death toggle recap has been 5 WB's lol.
Magicka Templars do not have a reliable good CC/ROOT and perhaps we should have.

I combat the WB spammers with Dark Flare, Vampires bane and toppling charge follwed by Puncturing sweep and jesus beam. I also switch to stamina pots on quick-slots for those players only so i can block all their spams.

Harasdar · October 2015

I can't see the problem here...CC immunity in video 2, the relevant one, as it is IC-Patch, is working fine. I can't see the templar flying arround all the time...

Instead he just stood infront to receive the blows, no running around or something else to avoid. Just spamming his jabs/sweep and an entropy in between. No cc...I could continue the list.

I'm just spamming wrecking blow, if it is not worth doing something else...why should worry myself if the other one let me kill him too easily

Normally I need all my skills to kill and against skilled players wrecking blows are mostly worthless as those get countered to often.

P3ZZL3 · October 2015

I got this last night for the first time from a Red in PC EU. Turned up in Chilli, tried to run past. Ran after him. Nearly got him and he hit me with 3 wrecking blows and 2 execute. Said "lol you noob, learn to CC block". Then told me how awesome he was at pvp and that he would still win if I got a group of 20 together and then blocked me.

I honestly couldn't stop laughing after I got myself together for my 34TV stone loss

caperon · October 2015

Wrecking blow is fine except you should be able to interrupt it.

Sensesfail13 · October 2015

I noticed you spamming biting jabs.... Better nerf that too... oh wait, everything has been nerfed into the ground so anything that does reasonable damage is being used... like wrecking blow and biting jabs. You are the people that have ruined this game.

Nighn_9 · October 2015

Um 3/4 the time you were out of stamina, so of course CC immunity wasnt working.

Molag_Crow · October 2015

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

I noticed you spamming biting jabs.... Better nerf that too... oh wait, everything has been nerfed into the ground so anything that does reasonable damage is being used... like wrecking blow and biting jabs. You are the people that have ruined this game.

"Spamming biting jabs" ..

For 1, I'm not a Stamina Templar so I have no need to spam Biting Jabs;
I use Puncturing Sweep
Radiant Ward
Repentance (when there's corpses)
Purifying Light
Channeled Focus
Toppling Charge
Radiant Oppression (when they're low health)
Mist Form (when LoSing/Retreating etc)

And heal when needed.

Spamming biting jabs

No offence, but you were definitely born with eyes and a brain to comprehend footage on a video for you to see that I didn't & don't just spam 1 ability over and over like my enemy:

Wrecking Blow
Wrecking Blow
Wrecking Blow
Wrecking Blow
Wrecking Blow
Wrecking Blow
Wrecking Blow
Wrecking Blow

AzraelKrieg · October 2015

The three issues I see with Wrecking Blow are that it causes a stun, the damage stacks with itself, and it can't be blocked. Does it need a damage nerf? No. A wrecking blow is supposed to be powerful. What it needs to prevent spamming is a resource cost increase similar to the Sorcs Bolt Escape. To prevent 5-6 Wrecking Blows chained one after the other, if it's used within a certain time frame it the cost is increased with the cost increase stacking if you keep spamming it.

danno8 · October 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

I got this last night for the first time from a Red in PC EU. Turned up in Chilli, tried to run past. Ran after him. Nearly got him and he hit me with 3 wrecking blows and 2 execute. Said "lol you noob, learn to CC block". Then told me how awesome he was at pvp and that he would still win if I got a group of 20 together and then blocked me.

I honestly couldn't stop laughing after I got myself together for my 34TV stone loss

Ah yes the "/whisper and then block you" type.

What a bunch of cowardly babies. They can dish it out but are too scared to take a little in return. Quivering behind their blocked list and nearly always using the latest fotm build.

Hiero_Glyph · October 2015

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The three issues I see with Wrecking Blow are that it causes a stun, the damage stacks with itself, and it can't be blocked. Does it need a damage nerf? No. A wrecking blow is supposed to be powerful. What it needs to prevent spamming is a resource cost increase similar to the Sorcs Bolt Escape. To prevent 5-6 Wrecking Blows chained one after the other, if it's used within a certain time frame it the cost is increased with the cost increase stacking if you keep spamming it.

You can't go down this road or you open up other skills to the same. Teleport Strike comes to mind as been equally annoying whhen spammed due to how the snare effect works. There would even be an argument for Puncturing Strikes, although that is a class design flaw not spammed on purpose. WB just needs to be able to be interrupted again. You can already do this by walking towards the WB spammer and having it auto-cancel when you get too close.

EDIT: Fixed the wrong skill I had previously listed.

Jeckll · October 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Surprise Attack comes to mind as been equally annoying whhen spammed due to how the snare effect works.

Zenimax I have to report a bug. My Surprise Attack does not snare. Fix please.

AzraelKrieg · October 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The three issues I see with Wrecking Blow are that it causes a stun, the damage stacks with itself, and it can't be blocked. Does it need a damage nerf? No. A wrecking blow is supposed to be powerful. What it needs to prevent spamming is a resource cost increase similar to the Sorcs Bolt Escape. To prevent 5-6 Wrecking Blows chained one after the other, if it's used within a certain time frame it the cost is increased with the cost increase stacking if you keep spamming it.

You can't go down this road or you open up other skills to the same. Surprise Attack comes to mind as been equally annoying whhen spammed due to how the snare effect works. There would even be an argument for Puncturing Strikes, although that is a class design flaw not spammed on purpose. WB just needs to be able to be interrupted again. You can already do this by walking towards the WB spammer and having it auto-cancel when you get too close.

Surprise Attack and Puncturing Strikes don't have the same massive damage output when spammed that Wrecking Blow does despite the 1 second cast time. And the tooltip for Surprise Attack says that it should only cause Fracture when cast from Stealth or Invisible. Currently that seems to be a tad broken. I've done both Wrecking Blow and Surprise Attack spams with Wrecking Blow spam being quite a bit quicker than Surprise Attack in terms of taking down a target and the speed at which you can cast it despite the 1 second wind up. No more damage nerfs to heavy hitting abilities, just make them cost more if repeatedly used in a certain time frame so they don't get spammed so much

danno8 · October 2015

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

If they nerf WB. DK's are going to suck even more.

I personally think the knockdown+3.5 second stun should go. This way the skill still stands as a very good DPS ability but if you want to CC someone you would have to use a cc skill like everyone else.

Even just the 3.5 second stun and it can keep the knockdown. The current CC is just far too good for how powerful (and self-empowering) this skill is.

Jeckll · October 2015

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

And the tooltip for Surprise Attack says that it should only cause Fracture when cast from Stealth or Invisible.

Nope, tooltip got fixed with Update 7. Working as intended.

AzraelKrieg · October 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

And the tooltip for Surprise Attack says that it should only cause Fracture when cast from Stealth or Invisible.

Nope, tooltip got fixed with Update 7. Working as intended.

Ok. Seems a bit silly to fracture outside of stealth though.

Jeckll · October 2015

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Ok. Seems a bit silly to fracture outside of stealth though.

What's silly about that? Puncture does the same.

AzraelKrieg · October 2015

Jeckll wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Ok. Seems a bit silly to fracture outside of stealth though.

What's silly about that? Puncture does the same.

Puncture makes sense since it's a blade being thrust into the armour, piercing it that way. Surprise Attack is animated as a crossing strike and it's supposed to be an unseen strike.

Jeckll · October 2015

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Jeckll wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Ok. Seems a bit silly to fracture outside of stealth though.

What's silly about that? Puncture does the same.

Puncture makes sense since it's a blade being thrust into the armour, piercing it that way. Surprise Attack is animated as a crossing strike and it's supposed to be an unseen strike.

Wow, didnt see that coming

Animation as an argument.

Visemere · October 2015

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Hello. I made a Wrecking Blow topic ages ago and basically complained about how it is spammable and CC immunity sometimes doesn't free you from its constant knockdown, so I came back.. with a video. but first....

Please Note: I do not intend on naming and shaming the player(s,) as it is not exactly the fault of the player if they're allowed to continuously spam the same hard-hitting, CC-ing ability. I also know that I got wrecked by a lower level (who is scaled up to v14 in PvP, but still) and before the "L2P" replies, I am a Magicka Templar, I didn't have enough Stamina to keep breaking out/dodge rolling away (especially in the first video,) I'm in 5 light 2 heavy, I have champion points in Break free/dodge roll and the FIRST video is from before the IC patch, purely to show CC immunity not working (though it seems to be working a little better in IC when 1v1) -- The SECOND video is from inside Imperial City, live.

Edit: Old, irrelevant video due to IC update, though WB still remains the same.
I'm wondering why Wrecking Blow's knockback doesn't have much diminishing returns at all, why is it so quick of a move to get off and laggy, and why CC immunity isn't always protecting one at the right time, as you can see in the first short video. (Though it's an old one) The player is able to do a total of 16 Wrecking Blows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU9PH0YLpmU

Edit: It's still a Plague in Imperial City, although this fight was decent, it is quite a shame to find that players have to resort to literally bashing 1 skill over and over for a kill, and Jab/Sweep isn't that bad in comparison due to it being a slightly long channel which can be interrupted BY wrecking blow before the last jab gets off to knock the target back.

Edit: I was in my 'PvE-ish build at the time, so I didn't have on Radiant Ward, not like that'll make much difference these days anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPSLliBkT6I

Summary (In my opinion)

So on a fundamental level, I see that Wrecking Blow is flawed. It's quite an abusive ability because of its damage, speed and knockdown combined. If I was to make this ability fair, I'd reduce the damage on the thing or give its knockdown a cooldown so that it won't apply on every swing, or at least make the knockdown effect a chance instead of guaranteed.

And

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The three issues I see with Wrecking Blow are that it causes a stun, the damage stacks with itself, and it can't be blocked. Does it need a damage nerf? No. A wrecking blow is supposed to be powerful. What it needs to prevent spamming is a resource cost increase similar to the Sorcs Bolt Escape. To prevent 5-6 Wrecking Blows chained one after the other, if it's used within a certain time frame it the cost is increased with the cost increase stacking if you keep spamming it.

BRB off to spec 2H and spam WB FTW!

purple-magicb16_ESO · October 2015

That's brutal! My wrecking blow takes about 5 mins on the wind up. lol! This almost doesn't even look like the same game I'm playing. 'course I use BA not GS, but still its a world of difference speed-wise. He must also have the weapon speed trait. Block and dodge roll man! Get some distance there. Root him if you have to. Lets be honest, you weren't completely incapacitated for the whole fight, you did have critical moments where you chose healing over getting him under control or putting distance between you. Clearly this particular heal was a very poor choice as it left you prone to further WB attacks. Root (which would've stolen some of his stam) THEN heal (a faster heal than the one you were using) would've been your best option imo. But you do have a point, everything else in this game has cooldowns, I just took it for granted that this had a cool down too and never tried it twice in a row. I know with one of the morphs you get a nice dmg bonus on next strike too, as long as its not WB otherwise the dmg would stack and be ridiculously high.

revonine · October 2015

Lost 2K stones because of this crap today I was juggled in the air twice in a row by some kinda former Street Fighter player with a 2 hander. Mashing one button over and over again to win because of broken immunity timers. Also that second vid makes me ashamed to be a DC player

So much nerf cloak crap in the forums lately but THIS deserves some proper attention immunity is not being granted properally when this skill is spammed the fact that it grants empower to ITSELF too is contributing to this spam.

TequilaFire · October 2015

All I can say is:

WB
WB
WB

Crystal frags
Crystal frags
Crystal frags

Focused aim
Focused aim
Focused aim

Biting jabs
Biting jabs
Biting Jabs

Surprise attack
Surprise attack
Surprise attack

My point?

All players mostly spam their best ability as you only have so many slots by the time you slot a heal, gap closer and CC.
Plus weapon swap doesn't work half the time.

revonine · October 2015

All classes have a "spammable" ability but in most cases it'd detrimental to do so if your target is not CC-ed or your not buffed. You don't need to buff yourself or CC your target with WB as it does it all in one skill.
Yes I understand that stamina DK's (like the one in that second Vid actually) rely on this skill but that is a separate issue entirely lava whip should have a stamina morph imo.

ARCH3RB13 · October 2015

Terrible... just stop pvping cause that was painful

Brrrofski · October 2015

This was happening to me the other day. Knocked down by it, as I was getting up, knocked down again.

Not a problem with the skill, just the fact I could get CCed so easily.

Biting jabs is used a LOT too since IC i've noticed.

Araxleon · October 2015

TequilaFire wrote: »

All I can say is:

WB
WB
WB

Crystal frags
Crystal frags
Crystal frags

Focused aim
Focused aim
Focused aim

Biting jabs
Biting jabs
Biting Jabs

Surprise attack
Surprise attack
Surprise attack

My point?

All players mostly spam their best ability as you only have so many slots by the time you slot a heal, gap closer and CC.
Plus weapon swap doesn't work half the time.

all those other skills, frags, focused aim, jabs and surprise give CC immunity, WB will not activate CC immunity until you hit the ground, thus making you double CC break (bug) or get stunned twice in a row. (this isnt only a issue if they spam it)

It needs to give CC immunity after the stun like all other skills.

Visemere · October 2015

Brrrofski wrote: »

This was happening to me the other day. Knocked down by it, as I was getting up, knocked down again.

Not a problem with the skill, just the fact I could get CCed so easily.

Biting jabs is used a LOT too since IC i've noticed.

spamming jabs is a lot like poking yourself in the eye with a cocktail stick, it does no damage and harms your chances of killing anything.

as a templar im so close to actually taking it off my bar altogether, i have the magicka version for the heals, 50% less healing makes mine utterly useless... i was healing for 40% of the damage it did, dmg nerf, healing nerf, it now does 20% of the square root of jack all.

revonine · October 2015

lol. What would you replace it with though @Visemere ? Every class gotta have a main DPS skill.

danno8 · October 2015

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

That's brutal! My wrecking blow takes about 5 mins on the wind up. lol! This almost doesn't even look like the same game I'm playing. 'course I use BA not GS, but still its a world of difference speed-wise. He must also have the weapon speed trait. Block and dodge roll man! Get some distance there. Root him if you have to. Lets be honest, you weren't completely incapacitated for the whole fight, you did have critical moments where you chose healing over getting him under control or putting distance between you. Root (which would've stolen some of his stam) THEN heal would've been your best option imo. But you do have a point, everything else in this game has cooldowns, I just took it for granted that this had a cool down too and never tried it twice in a row. I know with one of the morphs you get a nice dmg bonus on next strike too, as long as its not WB otherwise the dmg would stack and be ridiculously high.

The thing with WB is that the first one has a wind up, but subsequent ones really do not, as the wind up nearly covers over the GCD the game has.

So once you have finished the first WB, subsequent ones are as fast as spamming any instant cast ability. Another reason why spamming it is so lucrative right now.