Proposed CP Fix
Mystikkal
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@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_PaulSage
Problem Statement:
• The power gap between players is too large due to the CP system.
Suggested Solution:
• Implement CP Cap
Advantages of Suggested Solution:
• Improved balance
• Many folks would enjoy not feeling the need to grind
• Would potentially increase PvP as players would not feel the need to gain more CP
Disadvantages of Suggested Solution:
This suggested solution seems like a short cut solution. Many folks have spent a lot of time, energy and money on gaining CP. They have sacrificed doing certain activities that they enjoy (e.g. PvP), to grind CP. That was their decision, because they knew it would result in more CP. Now you want to take that away from them? I understand that balance is important, I was the first person to come out and say that the CP system was FAR too powerful. You realize the players that are near or above cap are your most dedicated player base? This will rub them the wrong way.
Proposed Solution
Decrease the effectiveness of the CP system, increase the diminishing returns, potentially implement a catch up system, and balance XP gain from all sources of gamplay (e.g. PvP). By doing this, you are not completely removing something that folks have earned through their time and money (e.g. subscription 10% XP bonus, XP scrolls, etc.). Players with 500+CP will still be strong, but they won’t be gods. By improving the XP of activities like PvP, players can focus on the aspects of the game they enjoy.
You should also implement a system where players have a right to all potential enlightenment since the launch of the system. This could be accomplished through a catch up system, but the point is.. that it takes more XP for a new player to obtain X level of CP, than one that has played since the CP system came out. (i.e. a vet was able to benefit from the enlightenment since the launch of IC, while a new player missed out on that enlightenment. So not only did the vet get a head start, but they also got the advantage of more enlightenment.)
What is the disadvantage of this proposed solution? It will certainly save you from upsetting some of your most dedicated players.
~Mystikkal
Problem Statement:
• The power gap between players is too large due to the CP system.
Suggested Solution:
• Implement CP Cap
Advantages of Suggested Solution:
• Improved balance
• Many folks would enjoy not feeling the need to grind
• Would potentially increase PvP as players would not feel the need to gain more CP
Disadvantages of Suggested Solution:
This suggested solution seems like a short cut solution. Many folks have spent a lot of time, energy and money on gaining CP. They have sacrificed doing certain activities that they enjoy (e.g. PvP), to grind CP. That was their decision, because they knew it would result in more CP. Now you want to take that away from them? I understand that balance is important, I was the first person to come out and say that the CP system was FAR too powerful. You realize the players that are near or above cap are your most dedicated player base? This will rub them the wrong way.
Proposed Solution
Decrease the effectiveness of the CP system, increase the diminishing returns, potentially implement a catch up system, and balance XP gain from all sources of gamplay (e.g. PvP). By doing this, you are not completely removing something that folks have earned through their time and money (e.g. subscription 10% XP bonus, XP scrolls, etc.). Players with 500+CP will still be strong, but they won’t be gods. By improving the XP of activities like PvP, players can focus on the aspects of the game they enjoy.
You should also implement a system where players have a right to all potential enlightenment since the launch of the system. This could be accomplished through a catch up system, but the point is.. that it takes more XP for a new player to obtain X level of CP, than one that has played since the CP system came out. (i.e. a vet was able to benefit from the enlightenment since the launch of IC, while a new player missed out on that enlightenment. So not only did the vet get a head start, but they also got the advantage of more enlightenment.)
What is the disadvantage of this proposed solution? It will certainly save you from upsetting some of your most dedicated players.
~Mystikkal
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UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Your proposal is obsolete because they already plan to do this. How it will go from there we shall see though.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'll just copy my thoughts to this thread too:
You know what ZOS really needs to do?
Make Champion Rank visible on all players. Seriously! Right after the level indicator next to the player's name, show the number of CP they have.
The vast majority of the complaint threads would cease, when people start to realize that, most of the time, it's not a CP difference that's killing them.
I'm not saying that CP doesn't have an effect. Sure it does. I'm just saying that I would bet a week's pay that very few of the people complaining that they are getting killed by players with "way more CP" than them, are actually being killed due to a CP difference.
Right now, someone with 250 CP is getting his face handed to him by another player. That person is going to come on these forums and complain about how this other player with "over 9000" CP just roflstomped him, and that "it isn't fair!"
But, if that person was able to actually see that the guy that wrecked him really only had 100 CP, maybe he'd keep his mouth shut and instead try to figure out why he sucks.
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robkrush✭✭✭✭✭I'll just copy my thoughts to this thread too:
You know what ZOS really needs to do?
Make Champion Rank visible on all players. Seriously! Right after the level indicator next to the player's name, show the number of CP they have.
The vast majority of the complaint threads would cease, when people start to realize that, most of the time, it's not a CP difference that's killing them.
I'm not saying that CP doesn't have an effect. Sure it does. I'm just saying that I would bet a week's pay that very few of the people complaining that they are getting killed by players with "way more CP" than them, are actually being killed due to a CP difference.
Right now, someone with 250 CP is getting his face handed to him by another player. That person is going to come on these forums and complain about how this other player with "over 9000" CP just roflstomped him, and that "it isn't fair!"
But, if that person was able to actually see that the guy that wrecked him really only had 100 CP, maybe he'd keep his mouth shut and instead try to figure out why he sucks.
Yup. You sir, have hit the proverbial nail on the head. I'm giving you an insightful, an agree, and an awesome; but you can only keep one.PS4-NA-DC
PSN: robkrush
The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.
ZOS, 1-12-20160 -
Mystikkal✭✭✭I appreciate the point that CP should be visible, but making CP visible doesn't improve the game play. The point is that the power difference is too much; not just that people don't know what exactly the power difference is..1
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Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'll just copy my thoughts to this thread too:
You know what ZOS really needs to do?
Make Champion Rank visible on all players. Seriously! Right after the level indicator next to the player's name, show the number of CP they have.
The vast majority of the complaint threads would cease, when people start to realize that, most of the time, it's not a CP difference that's killing them.
I'm not saying that CP doesn't have an effect. Sure it does. I'm just saying that I would bet a week's pay that very few of the people complaining that they are getting killed by players with "way more CP" than them, are actually being killed due to a CP difference.
Right now, someone with 250 CP is getting his face handed to him by another player. That person is going to come on these forums and complain about how this other player with "over 9000" CP just roflstomped him, and that "it isn't fair!"
But, if that person was able to actually see that the guy that wrecked him really only had 100 CP, maybe he'd keep his mouth shut and instead try to figure out why he sucks.
This is helpful, but doesn't solve the problem. There is a power gap in many situations. The argument here is that people suck and just dont realize they got beat by an equal number of CP. Incoming chest beating because it is required to refute this BS:
I don't suck. I am the former solo emperor of haderus. Anyone who has fought me knows I dont suck and that I am easily a top 20 NA Sorc.
With that said I have fought 1200 CP players with my 290 CP. With -50% damage from battle spirit on top of -25% magic damage from CP there is nothing I can do to these players. Granted, they cant kill me either with vastly inferior CP but the point remains.
Is this the Cyrodiil you want?
Edited by Xeven on September 29, 2015 6:39PM0 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm not saying there's isn't a large power difference between people with few CP and people with many CP. I'm saying that the power difference is NOT the cause of nearly the number of "unfair fights" that the complaints on these forums would lead you to believe.I appreciate the point that CP should be visible, but making CP visible doesn't improve the game play. The point is that the power difference is too much; not just that people don't know what exactly the power difference is..
Right now, everyone who loses a fight in PvP automatically assumes it's because "the other guy has way more CP than me" regardless of whether that's actually true.
Give people the info that would let them confirm whether that's true or not, and I bet the majority of them shut up when they realize that they are getting slaughtered by people with the same or less CP as them.
I completely believe that you know your stuff. And I completely agree that the difference between 290 CP and 1200 CP is significant, and the likely cause of your defeat in the situation you described. And I'd even give you the benefit of the doubt, and believe that you have somehow confirmed that the people you are fighting actually have that 1200 CP.I don't suck. I am the former solo emperor of haderus. Anyone who has fought me knows I dont suck and that I am easily a top 20 NA Sorc.
With that said I have fought 1200 CP players with my 290 CP. With -50% damage from battle spirit on top of -25% magic damage from CP there is nothing I can do to these players. Granted, they cant kill me either with vastly inferior CP but the point remains.
Is this the Cyrodiil you want?
I'm just saying that you are the exception, not the norm, when it comes to players complaining about the system. For every skilled player such as yourself that get's killed by someone else in the game who legitimately had 1000 more CP than you, there's likely 100 scrubs getting face-stomped by people like you, even though they have the same or even slightly more CP than you.
And all those scrubs are on here complaining just as loudly as you, when they have no evidence that the person that killed them had 1000 CP more than they did. Judging by these forums, you'd swear that every PvP fight that has ever happened was decided by a 1000 CP difference, and not player skill at all. When in reality, I'd bet that a player getting destroyed by a 1000 CP differene happens far less often than most people think.
Edited by Divinius on September 29, 2015 7:06PM0 -
robkrush✭✭✭✭✭
I'm not saying there's isn't a large power difference between people with few CP and people with many CP. I'm saying that the power difference is NOT the cause of nearly the number of "unfair fights" that the complaints on these forums would lead you to believe.I appreciate the point that CP should be visible, but making CP visible doesn't improve the game play. The point is that the power difference is too much; not just that people don't know what exactly the power difference is..
Right now, everyone who loses a fight in PvP automatically assumes it's because "the other guy has way more CP than me" regardless of whether that's actually true.
Give people the info that would let them confirm whether that's true or not, and I bet the majority of them shut up when they realize that they are getting slaughtered by people with the same or less CP as them.
I completely believe that you know your stuff. And I completely agree that the difference between 290 CP and 1200 CP is significant, and the likely cause of your defeat in the situation you described. And I'd even give you the benefit of the doubt, and believe that you have somehow confirmed that the people you are fighting actually have that 1200 CP.I don't suck. I am the former solo emperor of haderus. Anyone who has fought me knows I dont suck and that I am easily a top 20 NA Sorc.
With that said I have fought 1200 CP players with my 290 CP. With -50% damage from battle spirit on top of -25% magic damage from CP there is nothing I can do to these players. Granted, they cant kill me either with vastly inferior CP but the point remains.
Is this the Cyrodiil you want?
I'm just saying that you are the exception, not the norm, when it comes to players complaining about the system. For every skilled player such as yourself that get's killed by someone else in the game who legitimately had 1000 more CP than you, there's likely 100 scrubs getting face-stomped by people like you, even though they have the same or even slightly more CP than you.
And all those scrubs are on here complaining just as loudly as you, when they have no evidence that the person that killed them had 1000 CP more than they did. Judging by these forums, you'd swear that every PvP fight that has ever happened was decided by a 1000 CP difference, and not player skill at all. When in reality, I'd bet that a player getting destroyed by a 1000 CP differene happens far less often than most people think.
Yes. Gear plays a much more important role. These guys running around with untempered gear have no idea how strong you can be with legendary or even epic drop or crafted gear sets stacking traits. They don't have the jewelry. They don't have the powerful glyphs on.
Plus, you can't 1v1 everyone. Group up!
PS4-NA-DC
PSN: robkrush
The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.
ZOS, 1-12-20161 -
Divinius✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's the other thing...
If you could see how many CP people had with a simple mouse-over, then players could adjust their tactics accordingly. You can already see what level people are. If you were in Cyrodiil on a level 20 alt and saw a VR16 enemy player, would you run face-first at him? Or would you maybe try to avoid that confrontation?
Let people see CP Rank. When that one guy that does have 1200 CP wanders onto the battle-field, he'll stick out like a sore thumb, and people can avoid or gang-up on him as appropriate.0 -
Mystikkal✭✭✭Divinus, I apprciate your point, but feel that the answer is much more than making CP visible. I'd like for this thread to be more focused on fixing the power gap in a fair way.RatedChaotic wrote: »
Ratedchoatic, that comment doesn't deserve a response, but I will give one. The problem is that many people don't have time to play more, but still want to enjoy the game. They understand that they don't deserve to be as powerful as someone playing 24-7, but it is healthy for the game to encourage them to participate in the game without being so severely outmatched from a character power perspective.
~Myst0 -
Mystikkal✭✭✭I just told my brother that they might cap CP.. his response: "Then there's no reason to play anymore."1
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Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just remove CP in PvP. If anyone complains about their progression, all they have to do it log into a PvE zone and all their points will still be there.0 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Just remove CP in PvP. If anyone complains about their progression, all they have to do it log into a PvE zone and all their points will still be there.
or they could go the other direction and for PvP only unlock all CP's and skills , while setting the character to the max VR (16 currently) . would add a certain level of balance to PvP and point out to those who are losing in PvP that they are not as good at PvP as they think they are . As soon as the player leaves a PvP zone they revert back to the levels that have "earned" via PVE actions .0 -
Mystikkal✭✭✭It's an MMO, you are suppose to progress your character.. and for a lot of ppl it's for the end goal of pvp. I don't think removing CP solves the problem that ZOS is screwing over some of their most dedicated customers. The problem is the power gap.. so lessen the power gap.. why do you have to completely remove what people have worked for? This needs to be viewed from both people's perspective0
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nine9six✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'll just copy my thoughts to this thread too:
You know what ZOS really needs to do?
Make Champion Rank visible on all players.
Would like this as well. I agree....I bet a lot of people would STFU already. And for the time you *do* die to someone with 2x the CP...you'll have to get over that ***.Wake up, we're here. Why are you shaking? Are you ok? Wake up...0 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭there are three major progression system here:
*veteran ranks = more attribute points
*gear = stats
*cp = stats
this is way too much.0 -
sagitter✭✭✭✭✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »there are three major progression system here:
*veteran ranks = more attribute points
*gear = stats
*cp = stats
this is way too much.
It isn t for an mmo.
Daoc for exp. has :
gear
Master levels
Champion levels
very slow and deep realm points progression with lot of passives and active abilities.0