Let's say Zenimax just plain removes the Champion System and Vet Ranks altogether...

UltimaJoe777 · September 2015

How would ya'll react then? Suddenly those with large amounts of CP and those that hit Vet Ranks will find themselves considerably weakened due to no more Champion System and down to Level 50 since Vet Ranks are gone. So many people are always complaining that both should be removed and indeed Vet Ranks are on the green mile but how well received would it be for those that complain to suddenly get their wish right now? I understand people hate feeling disadvantaged even though I personally could not care less if I am or not and that some people have indeed broken the game by becoming overpowered and the devs do indeed recognize this but constantly moaning about it isn't going to do anything you know, except continue to generate negativity. They're working on it, that should be enough right? Well apparently it isn't. So what if they just said "whatever have it your way people who constantly rag on us about it" and then remove it completely? I will let ya'll have fun with that...

TheLaw · September 2015

The game would be better.

UltimaJoe777 · September 2015

TheLaw wrote: »

The game would be better.

And you would not lament all the work you put into anything beyond Lv50?

NewBlacksmurf · September 2015

Reaction to VR - thank you finally (and all the limiting factors of this)

Reaction to CP - it's only an issue for PvP right now so I believe it would be a very negative response from me because I'm a PvE player who has less than 650 so it'd be odd.

In the end tho I do expect drastic changes for both down the road so by the time they around to them Id prob be like "hmmm meh"

NordJitsu · September 2015

I would enjoy it a lot.

iord_stryker · September 2015

As a pve player I'd be pissed. Taking progression from a game like this would kill it for me. Simply disable all advantages for pvp sod they stop bitching and leave us pve players alone

UltimaJoe777 · September 2015

NordJitsu wrote: »

I would enjoy it a lot.

For how long? As quickly as people can reach Lv50 in just one day how quickly would it grow boring for you? No growth at all once you hit Lv50 means there is no growth as you do Cadwell's Silver and Gold and people could just skip those entirely unless they actually want to go to the other regions.

Let's face it the only people that believe the game would be better off if both were removed without some sort of replacement to spare at least some of the hard-earned growth so many have attained are the PvPers. They don't care about anyone else so long as they get what they want which is not right period.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2015

As long as there was ton's of NEW, immersive, fun, and re-playable content to explore, no one would care.

In PvE, the stat increases are really meaningless in the long run. ZOS is just going to up the difficulty of the endgame monsters to account for the power creep. That's how power creep works.

The only people that are really fighting hard to keep the CP system alive are the PvE'ers that couldn't handle the endgame content without this crutch or insist on soloing instances designed for groups because they don't want to be social in a social game. Their solo zones are coming and they will be happy then (as long as they never die).

Bottom line is that if there was content, we would have never needed VR or CP. It's just filler. When you defend VR or CP, you defend the practice adding unnecessary grind, flyspeck and filler into a game and calling it content.

To paraphase an old saying,

"Don't CP on my leg and tell me its raining content."

Alucardo · September 2015

I don't mind the VR system so much, but I wouldn't miss CPs if they were gone.

Auricle · September 2015

I would much rather they keep upping vet ranks and got rid of CP. I know, I know, it'd be ditching their whole 'horizontal progression' movement, but, I think it'd be better for game balance as a whole. They won't do it, though, because then people wouldn't have a reason to constantly log in and grind out their points.

Someone solo'd Molag Bal's Simulacrum, so... clearly CPs are susceptible to the same toxic power creep that ZoS was afraid of in the first place.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2015

Auricle wrote: »

I would much rather they keep upping vet ranks and got rid of CP. I know, I know, it'd be ditching their whole 'horizontal progression' movement, but, I think it'd be better for game balance as a whole. They won't do it, though, because then people wouldn't have a reason to constantly log in and grind out their points.

Someone solo'd Molag Bal's Simulacrum, so... clearly CPs are susceptible to the same toxic power creep that ZoS was afraid of in the first place.

There is nothing horizontal about the CP system. There is another word for horizontal progression. It's called "content."

DisgracefulMind · September 2015

Auricle wrote: »

I would much rather they keep upping vet ranks and got rid of CP. I know, I know, it'd be ditching their whole 'horizontal progression' movement, but, I think it'd be better for game balance as a whole. They won't do it, though, because then people wouldn't have a reason to constantly log in and grind out their points.

Someone solo'd Molag Bal's Simulacrum, so... clearly CPs are susceptible to the same toxic power creep that ZoS was afraid of in the first place.

Player was an Emperor.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · September 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Auricle wrote: »

I would much rather they keep upping vet ranks and got rid of CP. I know, I know, it'd be ditching their whole 'horizontal progression' movement, but, I think it'd be better for game balance as a whole. They won't do it, though, because then people wouldn't have a reason to constantly log in and grind out their points.

Someone solo'd Molag Bal's Simulacrum, so... clearly CPs are susceptible to the same toxic power creep that ZoS was afraid of in the first place.

There is nothing horizontal about the CP system. There is another word for horizontal progression. It's called "content."

Someone soloed Molag Bal in the IC sewer? that's nothing especially for an emperor he only has 3.5 million health, now compare that to the Celestial Serpent who has like 20 million something.

UltimaJoe777 · September 2015

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Auricle wrote: »

I would much rather they keep upping vet ranks and got rid of CP. I know, I know, it'd be ditching their whole 'horizontal progression' movement, but, I think it'd be better for game balance as a whole. They won't do it, though, because then people wouldn't have a reason to constantly log in and grind out their points.

Someone solo'd Molag Bal's Simulacrum, so... clearly CPs are susceptible to the same toxic power creep that ZoS was afraid of in the first place.

There is nothing horizontal about the CP system. There is another word for horizontal progression. It's called "content."

Someone soloed Molag Bal in the IC sewer? that's nothing especially for an emperor he only has 3.5 million health, now compare that to the Celestial Serpent who has like 20 million something.

Rich stated in the last ESO Live that Molag Bal was not designed to be soloable. This alone proves people are pretty much breaking the game as far as how the content was intended and some nerfing is in order.

TequilaFire · September 2015

Well after 18 months of play on 2 platforms I will not be a happy camper if all my progression is hosed.
So that will be the final nail in the coffin for me.

Yes I have often felt emperor buff is a little OP and actually should not be active while fighting a PvE type boss like the Molag Bal sim.

@ZOS_RichLambert maybe the solution is turning off PvP emp buff when doing a PvE event.

LordSemaj · September 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

TheLaw wrote: »

The game would be better.

And you would not lament all the work you put into anything beyond Lv50?

Haven't we all already experienced this lament over and over and over again, whether in WoW or EverQuest or RIFT or LOTRO or DDO or pretty much ANY MMO with a level cap increase? All your work is invalidated and you start over like everyone else. Nothing new, par for course.

UltimaJoe777 · September 2015

LordSemaj wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

TheLaw wrote: »

The game would be better.

And you would not lament all the work you put into anything beyond Lv50?

Haven't we all already experienced this lament over and over and over again, whether in WoW or EverQuest or RIFT or LOTRO or DDO or pretty much ANY MMO with a level cap increase? All your work is invalidated and you start over like everyone else. Nothing new, par for course.

Yeah I am not included in that one because I never played any of those games. I started to play LOTRO but immediately left as playing a game like that on PC was not my forte. Also wouldn't touch WoW with a 39 1/2 foot pole. I think I tried EverQuest but didn't care for it if it is the game I am thinking of. Either way quite frankly I'd say about half of this game's content is behind VR lines. Suddenly removing them is a huge step back that wastes so much time people painstakingly put into it which would ultimately leave it wasted. In the end, the results received from such a thing would indeed be more negative than positive, even if people don't realize it which was honestly the point of this thread: to get people to think ahead at what would be lost not just immediately but beyond as well.

Personofsecrets · September 2015

I would praise the sun.

UltimaJoe777 · September 2015

I think I may have approached this incorrectly. Perhaps I shall try again with a new thread, this time involving a poll. Please disregard this thread and let it die everyone.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

I think I may have approached this incorrectly. Perhaps I shall try again with a new thread, this time involving a poll. Please disregard this thread and let it die everyone.

This thread won't die it has too many champion points.

LordSemaj · September 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

In the end, the results received from such a thing would indeed be more negative than positive, even if people don't realize it which was honestly the point of this thread: to get people to think ahead at what would be lost not just immediately but beyond as well.

Veterans of progression MMOs know that new expansions and the full power resets that they come with are a normal part of the cycle and we VALUE them. Without them, new players could never hope to catch up to players who have been at the game for years. Without new players, EVERY MMO DIES!

Essentially, what you consider to be a great negative is actually a necessary and frequent POSITIVE implement to most players of these games. New expansions are even a resurgence point for players who have left the game or taken a break to come back and play again without feeling disadvantaged because they are so outgeared and outclassed. While losing all the CP and levels won't take away everyone's fancy gear, that at least is simple enough to craft for any new player.

nimander99 · September 2015

iord_stryker wrote: »

As a pve player I'd be pissed. Taking progression from a game like this would kill it for me. Simply disable all advantages for pvp sod they stop bitching and leave us pve players alone

So I asked /lurk this very question and he told me a campaign that disables CP's is on it's way and was already announced... not sure how I missed it but there it is.

Wolfshead · September 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

I would enjoy it a lot.

For how long? As quickly as people can reach Lv50 in just one day how quickly would it grow boring for you? No growth at all once you hit Lv50 means there is no growth as you do Cadwell's Silver and Gold and people could just skip those entirely unless they actually want to go to the other regions.

Let's face it the only people that believe the game would be better off if both were removed without some sort of replacement to spare at least some of the hard-earned growth so many have attained are the PvPers. They don't care about anyone else so long as they get what they want which is not right period.

If VR system would be remove it would take longer time to get to lvl 50 then it is today you most have that in mind now due to that we have VR system in place the normal lvl to lvl 50 go fast but it would not be as fast if lvl 50 was to max lvl.

As PvE i would not mind only have lvl 50 as max lvl but you still need to have something as progression otherwise you will be dead in water and people will leave so if you remove CP then i think ESO will become a ghost town for you need progression.

Akrasjel · September 2015

Why would they remove CP, it intention is to make some have something to do for longer time

Mojmir · September 2015

make it like UO, no levels at all. then you can keep your CP system to embellish the skills/attributes/resistance.

Molag_Crow · September 2015

Lol sorry but if somebody wants Cp/Vet ranks removed, then that clearly goes to show how much they must get owned in PvP.

phairdon · September 2015

Wolfshead wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

I would enjoy it a lot.

For how long? As quickly as people can reach Lv50 in just one day how quickly would it grow boring for you? No growth at all once you hit Lv50 means there is no growth as you do Cadwell's Silver and Gold and people could just skip those entirely unless they actually want to go to the other regions.

Let's face it the only people that believe the game would be better off if both were removed without some sort of replacement to spare at least some of the hard-earned growth so many have attained are the PvPers. They don't care about anyone else so long as they get what they want which is not right period.

If VR system would be remove it would take longer time to get to lvl 50 then it is today you most have that in mind now due to that we have VR system in place the normal lvl to lvl 50 go fast but it would not be as fast if lvl 50 was to max lvl.

As PvE i would not mind only have lvl 50 as max lvl but you still need to have something as progression otherwise you will be dead in water and people will leave so if you remove CP then i think ESO will become a ghost town for you need progression.

Why do people assume levels would stop at 50 if veteran ranks go? could well go up to level 65 instead of vr1-vr16. My other mmo goes up to level 80. One big difference, you do not read people asking for the level cap to be lowered.
Going to cadwel's silver and gold zones would be almost pointless, as there would be little to achieve. Go collect the skyshards, ignore the quests, as you do not need the experience to level up any further.

Vangy · September 2015

Just make a CP "on" pvp campaign and a CP "off" one. Then all the "effort" put into constant zombie grinding with crown exp scroll + exp pots wont go to waste. Rather u would be facing opponents who have similar CP as you. This would save the game for pvp casuals and people with a job + wife and kids who can at most play an hour or 2, 3 times a week. This way everyone can have their way. CP grinders can have fun with their 1000 cp while the rest of us can as well.

phairdon · September 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Just make a CP "on" pvp campaign and a CP "off" one. Then all the "effort" put into constant zombie grinding with crown exp scroll + exp pots wont go to waste. Rather u would be facing opponents who have similar CP as you. This would save the game for pvp casuals and people with a job + wife and kids who can at most play an hour or 2, 3 times a week. This way everyone can have their way. CP grinders can have fun with their 1000 cp while the rest of us can as well.

Yes. Remove CP from PVP completely. Otherwise, if it were to be removed, the whole game suffers, once again, due to one aspect of this game.

lathbury · September 2015

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

I would enjoy it a lot.

For how long? As quickly as people can reach Lv50 in just one day how quickly would it grow boring for you? No growth at all once you hit Lv50 means there is no growth as you do Cadwell's Silver and Gold and people could just skip those entirely unless they actually want to go to the other regions.

Let's face it the only people that believe the game would be better off if both were removed without some sort of replacement to spare at least some of the hard-earned growth so many have attained are the PvPers. They don't care about anyone else so long as they get what they want which is not right period.

wrong I'm an end game pve player and I wouldnt give 2 craps about it. The longevity of the game is what's important here not someone's but hurt about some numbers disappearing.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2015

lathbury wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

I would enjoy it a lot.

For how long? As quickly as people can reach Lv50 in just one day how quickly would it grow boring for you? No growth at all once you hit Lv50 means there is no growth as you do Cadwell's Silver and Gold and people could just skip those entirely unless they actually want to go to the other regions.

Let's face it the only people that believe the game would be better off if both were removed without some sort of replacement to spare at least some of the hard-earned growth so many have attained are the PvPers. They don't care about anyone else so long as they get what they want which is not right period.

wrong I'm an end game pve player and I wouldnt give 2 craps about it. The longevity of the game is what's important here not someone's but hurt about some numbers disappearing.

QFT. Some people are just going to cry they cant solo PvE group content anymore and play god. That only lasts till zos cranks up monster HP and damage. Power creep gonna power creep.