Looking for advice on my DK

WyldfireWyrm · September 2015

So I've tried tanking on 3 classes and I'm convinced the role just isn't for me. Problem is that now I have this low level Dunmer DK that I have had for months with tons of crafting research and riding training that I want to use, but don't like to heal or tank with. Obviously this means I'll be turning it into a DPS character. But I need some advice on how I should set it up in the new content.

I have only ever done magicka builds, and stamina might be a nice change of pace, but I'm open to either resource playstyle.
I want to do good damage, but not be a complete glass cannon, so min maxing isn't necessary.
I would like to try out either werewolf or vampire if they won't hinder the build.
I am interested mainly in PVE, but having PVP viability would be great. I generally suck in PVP, so a relatively easy build to play would be great.

Thoughts, advice, builds and suggestions are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.

DezKoth87 · September 2015

A dunmer dk makes a really good DPS I hear. I'm a stamina dk nord tank so I know the struggle. A lot of players become a vampire for the extra magicka which pairs great with ur dunmer.

Brrrofski · September 2015

Dumner Dk is a great dps build.

Check you Racial skills.

Check ardent flame line.

You do more fire damage and have a whole tree of fire damage.

Dumner is a great choice for vampire because of the fire resist.

Full fire damage Dk can get a lot of dps.

You also have great survivability from some draconic power and earthen heart abilities.

This would be a magica build though.

Winterpsy · September 2015

Magicka DPS DK. --> Pyromancer concept.

Destro staff, everything that's burning. Google it, there are many exciting builds out there.

OmniDevil · September 2015

Winterpsy wrote: »

Magicka DPS DK. --> Pyromancer concept.

Destro staff, everything that's burning. Google it, there are many exciting builds out there.

I'll second this. Pre-1.7, I was strictly running a pyromage build that just blew everything away and did amazing things in PvP. However, I don't feel as strong anymore since 1.7. I've gone back to stamina and feel a little better about output, but it's still on par with magicka. With that said, go magicka. You won't be disappointed.

Cuyler · September 2015

<---merp I just realized I can link an emoji

go ahead click it!

WyldfireWyrm · September 2015

Out of curiosity, what is all the hype I hear about stamina DKs? Is it just hype or is there really something to it?

caperon · September 2015

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what is all the hype I hear about stamina DKs? Is it just hype or is there really something to it?

2 Handed gives them all DK skill lines lack:

- Wreckilng blow = Spammable high dmg with CC.
- Critical rush = Gap closer
- Executioner = Good Execute

As bonus, dragon leap gets boosted with CP in Mighty and Vigor is now better than dragon blood.

Vangy · September 2015

Yep as a main dk I can safely tell u you will be hardly using any dk skills as a dk.....

Pve dps: rally, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb (boss in execute range), exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe. Oh and make sure u maintain rally and searing strike dot

Pvp: rally, crit Rush crit Rush crit crush, until opponent decides to fight, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb, occasional vigor + dragon leap and fossilize when u need a range cc, exe exe exe

Vangy · September 2015

Follow the extremely complicated rotation above and u will do just fine.

WyldfireWyrm · September 2015

Ok. So the class itself offers little in the way of stamina builds. Good to know.

Alucardo · September 2015

Well, I've been running x2 sword+board setup and utilising a lot of dk spells just fine. Lately 1v1 wb spammers barely scratch my health before I put them down. It's not a high burst DPS build, but it handles well. I am only level 26, so not everything is morphed yet

Bar 1: Offence

1. Shield Assault
2. Unstable Flame
3. Ransack
4. Molten Armaments
5. Talons
U: Take Flight

Bar 2: Defence

1. Volatile Armour
2. Defensive Stance
3. Fiery Breath
4. Dragon Blood (will replace with Vigor most likely)
5. Obsidian Shield
U: Standard

So yeah, mostly DK spells with some S+B skills in there for gap closing and debuffs. I use medium armour for extra stam bonuses and weapon damage, but you could go heavy if you wanted. I'd also suggest tri-stat food because you'll be using a lot of magicka and stam, but this build has been pretty solid for me.

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Yep as a main dk I can safely tell u you will be hardly using any dk skills as a dk.....

Pve dps: rally, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb (boss in execute range), exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe. Oh and make sure u maintain rally and searing strike dot

Pvp: rally, crit Rush crit Rush crit crush, until opponent decides to fight, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb, occasional vigor + dragon leap and fossilize when u need a range cc, exe exe exe

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Ok. So the class itself offers little in the way of stamina builds. Good to know.

Please don't follow the advice of people who obviously are not very good players. First the DK class has a ton of survivability class skills and make good use of your magic. Yes for DPS you will want to lean on weapon skills but Fiery Breathe lowers armor resistance, Unstable flame is probably the best damage dot in the game, Cinderstorm is easily among the best CC in the game, Reflective scale makes magic user look stupid as they spam projectiles, Ingenous shield turns Rally into a semi decent heal as well as damage buff, oh and its a damage shield. If you are using pots with the right setup you can use Green Dragon Blood for that Stam Regen and healing increase, Obsidian Shard is a good single target CC and you get a minor armor increase from it. If you are using Earthen Heart skills, you get minor brutality for you and everyone around, you generate ultimate faster, and you get stamina back. All this to setup a ultimate which restores your main stat.

Yeah if you spam wrecking blow, crit rush, and executioner you will kill scrubs but for anybody with skills you better familiarize yourself with those other skills. In short, you get to use your class skills a lot if you know what you are doing, and if you want to be a noob killing wrecking blow and crit rush spamming machine follow that other guys advice. But Stam Dk is super strong in the hands of a smart player, once you realize you have more survivability, CC, and DPS than pretty much every other class you realize that those pushing this Wrecking blow agenda are trying to turn you into the same kind of bad player that they complain about.

WyldfireWyrm · September 2015

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yep as a main dk I can safely tell u you will be hardly using any dk skills as a dk.....

Pve dps: rally, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb (boss in execute range), exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe. Oh and make sure u maintain rally and searing strike dot

Pvp: rally, crit Rush crit Rush crit crush, until opponent decides to fight, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb, occasional vigor + dragon leap and fossilize when u need a range cc, exe exe exe

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Ok. So the class itself offers little in the way of stamina builds. Good to know.

Please don't follow the advice of people who obviously are not very good players. First the DK class has a ton of survivability class skills and make good use of your magic. Yes for DPS you will want to lean on weapon skills but Fiery Breathe lowers armor resistance, Unstable flame is probably the best damage dot in the game, Cinderstorm is easily among the best CC in the game, Reflective scale makes magic user look stupid as they spam projectiles, Ingenous shield turns Rally into a semi decent heal as well as damage buff, oh and its a damage shield. If you are using pots with the right setup you can use Green Dragon Blood for that Stam Regen and healing increase, Obsidian Shard is a good single target CC and you get a minor armor increase from it. If you are using Earthen Heart skills, you get minor brutality for you and everyone around, you generate ultimate faster, and you get stamina back. All this to setup a ultimate which restores your main stat.

Yeah if you spam wrecking blow, crit rush, and executioner you will kill scrubs but for anybody with skills you better familiarize yourself with those other skills. In short, you get to use your class skills a lot if you know what you are doing, and if you want to be a noob killing wrecking blow and crit rush spamming machine follow that other guys advice. But Stam Dk is super strong in the hands of a smart player, once you realize you have more survivability, CC, and DPS than pretty much every other class you realize that those pushing this Wrecking blow agenda are trying to turn you into the same kind of bad player that they complain about.

Are you speaking mostly from the standpoint of PVP or PVE?

I do like the idea of a stamina DK. It might be a nice change of pace and the Dunmer boost to magicka would give me access to more utility/survivability and CC.

How would everyone rate magicka versus stamina DKs in terms of survivability/utility, damage and CC?

EDIT: I should really just ask which resource is better in PVE, since I do dungeons way more often than PVP?

WyldfireWyrm · September 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Well, I've been running x2 sword+board setup and utilising a lot of dk spells just fine. Lately 1v1 wb spammers barely scratch my health before I put them down. It's not a high burst DPS build, but it handles well. I am only level 26, so not everything is morphed yet

Bar 1: Offence

1. Shield Assault
2. Unstable Flame
3. Ransack
4. Molten Armaments
5. Talons
U: Take Flight

Bar 2: Defence

1. Volatile Armour
2. Defensive Stance
3. Fiery Breath
4. Dragon Blood (will replace with Vigor most likely)
5. Obsidian Shield
U: Standard

So yeah, mostly DK spells with some S+B skills in there for gap closing and debuffs. I use medium armour for extra stam bonuses and weapon damage, but you could go heavy if you wanted. I'd also suggest tri-stat food because you'll be using a lot of magicka and stam, but this build has been pretty solid for me.

That definitely seems more like a tanky build. I'm not sure how much I would enjoy that since I'm just coming off the tanking role. The long, dragged out fights in solo play were the really killer for me as a tank.

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yep as a main dk I can safely tell u you will be hardly using any dk skills as a dk.....

Pve dps: rally, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb (boss in execute range), exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe. Oh and make sure u maintain rally and searing strike dot

Pvp: rally, crit Rush crit Rush crit crush, until opponent decides to fight, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb, occasional vigor + dragon leap and fossilize when u need a range cc, exe exe exe

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Ok. So the class itself offers little in the way of stamina builds. Good to know.

Please don't follow the advice of people who obviously are not very good players. First the DK class has a ton of survivability class skills and make good use of your magic. Yes for DPS you will want to lean on weapon skills but Fiery Breathe lowers armor resistance, Unstable flame is probably the best damage dot in the game, Cinderstorm is easily among the best CC in the game, Reflective scale makes magic user look stupid as they spam projectiles, Ingenous shield turns Rally into a semi decent heal as well as damage buff, oh and its a damage shield. If you are using pots with the right setup you can use Green Dragon Blood for that Stam Regen and healing increase, Obsidian Shard is a good single target CC and you get a minor armor increase from it. If you are using Earthen Heart skills, you get minor brutality for you and everyone around, you generate ultimate faster, and you get stamina back. All this to setup a ultimate which restores your main stat.

Yeah if you spam wrecking blow, crit rush, and executioner you will kill scrubs but for anybody with skills you better familiarize yourself with those other skills. In short, you get to use your class skills a lot if you know what you are doing, and if you want to be a noob killing wrecking blow and crit rush spamming machine follow that other guys advice. But Stam Dk is super strong in the hands of a smart player, once you realize you have more survivability, CC, and DPS than pretty much every other class you realize that those pushing this Wrecking blow agenda are trying to turn you into the same kind of bad player that they complain about.

Are you speaking mostly from the standpoint of PVP or PVE?

I do like the idea of a stamina DK. It might be a nice change of pace and the Dunmer boost to magicka would give me access to more utility/survivability and CC.

How would everyone rate magicka versus stamina DKs in terms of survivability/utility, damage and CC?

EDIT: I should really just ask which resource is better in PVE, since I do dungeons way more often than PVP?

I play Stam DK DPS. I use the same setup for PVP and PVE. 2h and bow.

Bar 1: 2h/DPS
1. Crit Rush
2. Unstable flame
3. Wrecking Blow
4. Executioner
5. Forward momentum
U. Corrosive Armor

Bar 2: Bow/Defense
1. Magnum Shot
2. Burning Breathe
3. Reflective Scale
4. Igneous Shield
5. Cinderstorm
U. Standard of might/Ferocious Leap / Meteor

To answer your question more directly, magic DK is strong but I feel stamina is a better playstyle overall, especially solo. It uses stamina for DPS and magic for defense. Most DK skills are magic defensive based and I like having my utility skills cost me no DPS resource. I would say magic DK has slightly less survivability solo because the low resistance of light armor, but that can be overcome. Stamina has great survivability and even better damage output solo, in my opinion. I feel Stamina is really the best way to play DK, with a good bit of defensive class skills and some high powered offensive skills from your weapon.

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

do not spam wrecking blow...its a good skill but not the greatest

WyldfireWyrm · September 2015

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yep as a main dk I can safely tell u you will be hardly using any dk skills as a dk.....

Pve dps: rally, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb (boss in execute range), exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe. Oh and make sure u maintain rally and searing strike dot

Pvp: rally, crit Rush crit Rush crit crush, until opponent decides to fight, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb, occasional vigor + dragon leap and fossilize when u need a range cc, exe exe exe

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Ok. So the class itself offers little in the way of stamina builds. Good to know.

Please don't follow the advice of people who obviously are not very good players. First the DK class has a ton of survivability class skills and make good use of your magic. Yes for DPS you will want to lean on weapon skills but Fiery Breathe lowers armor resistance, Unstable flame is probably the best damage dot in the game, Cinderstorm is easily among the best CC in the game, Reflective scale makes magic user look stupid as they spam projectiles, Ingenous shield turns Rally into a semi decent heal as well as damage buff, oh and its a damage shield. If you are using pots with the right setup you can use Green Dragon Blood for that Stam Regen and healing increase, Obsidian Shard is a good single target CC and you get a minor armor increase from it. If you are using Earthen Heart skills, you get minor brutality for you and everyone around, you generate ultimate faster, and you get stamina back. All this to setup a ultimate which restores your main stat.

Yeah if you spam wrecking blow, crit rush, and executioner you will kill scrubs but for anybody with skills you better familiarize yourself with those other skills. In short, you get to use your class skills a lot if you know what you are doing, and if you want to be a noob killing wrecking blow and crit rush spamming machine follow that other guys advice. But Stam Dk is super strong in the hands of a smart player, once you realize you have more survivability, CC, and DPS than pretty much every other class you realize that those pushing this Wrecking blow agenda are trying to turn you into the same kind of bad player that they complain about.

Are you speaking mostly from the standpoint of PVP or PVE?

I do like the idea of a stamina DK. It might be a nice change of pace and the Dunmer boost to magicka would give me access to more utility/survivability and CC.

How would everyone rate magicka versus stamina DKs in terms of survivability/utility, damage and CC?

EDIT: I should really just ask which resource is better in PVE, since I do dungeons way more often than PVP?

I play Stam DK DPS. I use the same setup for PVP and PVE. 2h and bow.

Bar 1: 2h/DPS
1. Crit Rush
2. Unstable flame
3. Wrecking Blow
4. Executioner
5. Forward momentum
U. Corrosive Armor

Bar 2: Bow/Defense
1. Magnum Shot
2. Burning Breathe
3. Reflective Scale
4. Igneous Shield
5. Cinderstorm
U. Standard of might/Ferocious Leap / Meteor

To answer your question more directly, magic DK is strong but I feel stamina is a better playstyle overall, especially solo. It uses stamina for DPS and magic for defense. Most DK skills are magic defensive based and I like having my utility skills cost me no DPS resource. I would say magic DK has slightly less survivability solo because the low resistance of light armor, but that can be overcome. Stamina has great survivability and even better damage output solo, in my opinion. I feel Stamina is really the best way to play DK, with a good bit of defensive class skills and some high powered offensive skills from your weapon.

Thanks for the info. I want to play my DK as a melee fighter, which I know can be done with either resource, but your explanation of magicka DK skills being largely defensive in nature versus offensive stamina skills makes a lot of sense. I think stamina might be a nice change of pace. I know I've enjoyed magicka DK in the past (during the PC only days), but I'm sure a lot has changed since then.

It's there a reason you chose bow over 1 hand and shield for your defensive bar?

Do you think werewolf or vampire would be a worthwhile addition to a stamina DK build?

Vangy · September 2015

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yep as a main dk I can safely tell u you will be hardly using any dk skills as a dk.....

Pve dps: rally, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb (boss in execute range), exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe. Oh and make sure u maintain rally and searing strike dot

Pvp: rally, crit Rush crit Rush crit crush, until opponent decides to fight, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb, occasional vigor + dragon leap and fossilize when u need a range cc, exe exe exe

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Ok. So the class itself offers little in the way of stamina builds. Good to know.

Please don't follow the advice of people who obviously are not very good players. First the DK class has a ton of survivability class skills and make good use of your magic. Yes for DPS you will want to lean on weapon skills but Fiery Breathe lowers armor resistance, Unstable flame is probably the best damage dot in the game, Cinderstorm is easily among the best CC in the game, Reflective scale makes magic user look stupid as they spam projectiles, Ingenous shield turns Rally into a semi decent heal as well as damage buff, oh and its a damage shield. If you are using pots with the right setup you can use Green Dragon Blood for that Stam Regen and healing increase, Obsidian Shard is a good single target CC and you get a minor armor increase from it. If you are using Earthen Heart skills, you get minor brutality for you and everyone around, you generate ultimate faster, and you get stamina back. All this to setup a ultimate which restores your main stat.

Yeah if you spam wrecking blow, crit rush, and executioner you will kill scrubs but for anybody with skills you better familiarize yourself with those other skills. In short, you get to use your class skills a lot if you know what you are doing, and if you want to be a noob killing wrecking blow and crit rush spamming machine follow that other guys advice. But Stam Dk is super strong in the hands of a smart player, once you realize you have more survivability, CC, and DPS than pretty much every other class you realize that those pushing this Wrecking blow agenda are trying to turn you into the same kind of bad player that they complain about.

Sighs.... U do realise OP mentioned that he mainly PVEs right. All this advice is worth diddly squat in pve. I gave him the best pve setup that can still hold its own in most group pvp situations. If u want to have a pvp focused build then yeah go with reflective scales and cinders storm and all that stuff. Really how much of the OPs post did u read. Cinder storm and reflective scales on a pve stam dk.... And also I don't appreciate the tone of ur post when clearly the only bad advice given here is your nonsensical post that is completely a pvp build.

Vangy · September 2015

@WyldfireWyrm : also u can try going to tamrielfoundry.com and search for dk builds. There are quite a few awesome guides from people like sypher and lefty Lucy for pvp and more importantly tons of builds and theory crafting for the pve stam build you requested. They have a complete work up of gear/replacements, CP allocation and even mundus stone choices with enchantment requirements. Some of the 1.6 builds still work very well now with some minor changes. Try them out and modify them to your liking.

Vangy · September 2015

Single target and I stress pve:
2H:
Searing strike
Wrecking blow
Executioner
Rally
Evil hunter/flames of oblivion
Ult: flawless dawnbreaker

Aoe:
DW
Caltrops/eruption
Steel tornado
Coagulating blood/gdb ( I run coag cos I spam tripots)
Flying blade
Evil hunter/ flames of oblivion
Ult: meteor

Gear wise I run 5 piece hundings with 2 piece Valkyns coupled with agility accessories

Rotation for single target is pretty simple; rally,searing strike followed by x number of wrecking blows till boss is in execute range and then spam execute. Maintain rally and searing strike.

Aoe: rally, swap weapon drop caltrops/eruption followed by steel tornado spam. Maintain caltrops/eruption and rally.

Valkyns works awesome with dots but lately I've been testing 1 piece mola kena with night mothers 2 set. Still prefer valkyns at the moment.

Vangy · September 2015

Also in pvp replace the Aoe bar with more utility skills such as reflective scales/obsidian shield etc.

In pve though u need to have a dedicated Aoe bar and a single target bar. Both of which should have some utility. If u run a semi pvp build you can kiss goodbye to any speed runs or vet 16 pledges where dps matters and a gazillion adds are spawning.

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

Vangy wrote: »

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yep as a main dk I can safely tell u you will be hardly using any dk skills as a dk.....

Pve dps: rally, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb (boss in execute range), exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe. Oh and make sure u maintain rally and searing strike dot

Pvp: rally, crit Rush crit Rush crit crush, until opponent decides to fight, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb, occasional vigor + dragon leap and fossilize when u need a range cc, exe exe exe

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Ok. So the class itself offers little in the way of stamina builds. Good to know.

Please don't follow the advice of people who obviously are not very good players. First the DK class has a ton of survivability class skills and make good use of your magic. Yes for DPS you will want to lean on weapon skills but Fiery Breathe lowers armor resistance, Unstable flame is probably the best damage dot in the game, Cinderstorm is easily among the best CC in the game, Reflective scale makes magic user look stupid as they spam projectiles, Ingenous shield turns Rally into a semi decent heal as well as damage buff, oh and its a damage shield. If you are using pots with the right setup you can use Green Dragon Blood for that Stam Regen and healing increase, Obsidian Shard is a good single target CC and you get a minor armor increase from it. If you are using Earthen Heart skills, you get minor brutality for you and everyone around, you generate ultimate faster, and you get stamina back. All this to setup a ultimate which restores your main stat.

Yeah if you spam wrecking blow, crit rush, and executioner you will kill scrubs but for anybody with skills you better familiarize yourself with those other skills. In short, you get to use your class skills a lot if you know what you are doing, and if you want to be a noob killing wrecking blow and crit rush spamming machine follow that other guys advice. But Stam Dk is super strong in the hands of a smart player, once you realize you have more survivability, CC, and DPS than pretty much every other class you realize that those pushing this Wrecking blow agenda are trying to turn you into the same kind of bad player that they complain about.

Sighs.... U do realise OP mentioned that he mainly PVEs right. All this advice is worth diddly squat in pve. I gave him the best pve setup that can still hold its own in most group pvp situations. If u want to have a pvp focused build then yeah go with reflective scales and cinders storm and all that stuff. Really how much of the OPs post did u read. Cinder storm and reflective scales on a pve stam dk.... And also I don't appreciate the tone of ur post when clearly the only bad advice given here is your nonsensical post that is completely a pvp build.

I guess you've never encountered an archer or a mage in pve. Or had a boss in a dungeon hit you with a one shot spell. If you are solo how are you managing crowd control....with a charged single target ability spammed over and over. Dude bad player is bad player, and advising anyone to spam wrecking blow is horrible advice no matter how you try to spin it. And yes the UTILITY I described here is amazing in pvp and PVE. I'll refer you to my philosophy on stamina build setup to understand why you use magic skills for DEFENSE, and it keeps your main resource open for dps.

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Yep as a main dk I can safely tell u you will be hardly using any dk skills as a dk.....

Pve dps: rally, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb (boss in execute range), exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe. Oh and make sure u maintain rally and searing strike dot

Pvp: rally, crit Rush crit Rush crit crush, until opponent decides to fight, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb, occasional vigor + dragon leap and fossilize when u need a range cc, exe exe exe

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

Ok. So the class itself offers little in the way of stamina builds. Good to know.

Please don't follow the advice of people who obviously are not very good players. First the DK class has a ton of survivability class skills and make good use of your magic. Yes for DPS you will want to lean on weapon skills but Fiery Breathe lowers armor resistance, Unstable flame is probably the best damage dot in the game, Cinderstorm is easily among the best CC in the game, Reflective scale makes magic user look stupid as they spam projectiles, Ingenous shield turns Rally into a semi decent heal as well as damage buff, oh and its a damage shield. If you are using pots with the right setup you can use Green Dragon Blood for that Stam Regen and healing increase, Obsidian Shard is a good single target CC and you get a minor armor increase from it. If you are using Earthen Heart skills, you get minor brutality for you and everyone around, you generate ultimate faster, and you get stamina back. All this to setup a ultimate which restores your main stat.

Yeah if you spam wrecking blow, crit rush, and executioner you will kill scrubs but for anybody with skills you better familiarize yourself with those other skills. In short, you get to use your class skills a lot if you know what you are doing, and if you want to be a noob killing wrecking blow and crit rush spamming machine follow that other guys advice. But Stam Dk is super strong in the hands of a smart player, once you realize you have more survivability, CC, and DPS than pretty much every other class you realize that those pushing this Wrecking blow agenda are trying to turn you into the same kind of bad player that they complain about.

Are you speaking mostly from the standpoint of PVP or PVE?

I do like the idea of a stamina DK. It might be a nice change of pace and the Dunmer boost to magicka would give me access to more utility/survivability and CC.

How would everyone rate magicka versus stamina DKs in terms of survivability/utility, damage and CC?

EDIT: I should really just ask which resource is better in PVE, since I do dungeons way more often than PVP?

I play Stam DK DPS. I use the same setup for PVP and PVE. 2h and bow.

Bar 1: 2h/DPS
1. Crit Rush
2. Unstable flame
3. Wrecking Blow
4. Executioner
5. Forward momentum
U. Corrosive Armor

Bar 2: Bow/Defense
1. Magnum Shot
2. Burning Breathe
3. Reflective Scale
4. Igneous Shield
5. Cinderstorm
U. Standard of might/Ferocious Leap / Meteor

To answer your question more directly, magic DK is strong but I feel stamina is a better playstyle overall, especially solo. It uses stamina for DPS and magic for defense. Most DK skills are magic defensive based and I like having my utility skills cost me no DPS resource. I would say magic DK has slightly less survivability solo because the low resistance of light armor, but that can be overcome. Stamina has great survivability and even better damage output solo, in my opinion. I feel Stamina is really the best way to play DK, with a good bit of defensive class skills and some high powered offensive skills from your weapon.

Thanks for the info. I want to play my DK as a melee fighter, which I know can be done with either resource, but your explanation of magicka DK skills being largely defensive in nature versus offensive stamina skills makes a lot of sense. I think stamina might be a nice change of pace. I know I've enjoyed magicka DK in the past (during the PC only days), but I'm sure a lot has changed since then.

It's there a reason you chose bow over 1 hand and shield for your defensive bar?

Do you think werewolf or vampire would be a worthwhile addition to a stamina DK build?

I play as a melee fighter as well and as such I find I am always in the 10 meter range of magnum shot and it is a great range interrupt. I like the synergy of magnum shot and crit rush for pve and pvp. I have no other bow skills except that one and it is the reason I use bow over 1h+shield. I started with 1h+shield, and it's great for the block cost reduction and overall defensive theme of bar two, but there's no interrupt. I had been using bow for pvp... and when I noticed that the stun on magnum shot knocks pretty much all npc's out of charged attacks it made sense to switch.

I play as a wood elf so I didn't need the werewolf stamina regen buff, and haven't really put any thought into going vampire. I think werewolf works great if you are playing a stam race other than wood elf, though if you are a wood elf with the natural resistance to poison and the 21% stam regen, it would make for an amazing combo. I am not a fan of having to slot the ultimate to get the passives but it make sense that it is that way. In pve werewolf is amazing on a stam character and I have a whole guild of werewolves just waiting to turn me, but in pvp werewolf is not ideal. It's one of those things that you will have to find your own comfort level with really.

Vamps are great, especially if you are Dunmer. And I guess it has synergy considering you will be using a fair bit of magic. Really the only reason I cannot comment on vamps with this stamina spec is because I converted my dunmer dk back to magic with the latest update.

Vangy · September 2015

@hardcore_gmr : So i guess i must be bad and the stickied PVE guides on tamrielfoundry by well known and reputed players for stam DK dps are also bad....

Just to show u im not trolling here's a quote:

AOE(DW): keep rally up and steel tornado away weave in a light attack every 8 seconds to gain ultimate chain enemies not in your groups range if you have the mana for it. if you are running low on stamina keep green dragon blood up. for a higher dps aoe run i switch the ultimate to the other bar and equip flawless here. furthermore i switch flying blade and chains to razer caltrops and eruption. Gearwise i switch to Valkyrie set for meteor rains and combine it with 5 vicious.

Single target(2H): This rotation is stupid easy keep up unstable flame/rally and uppercut away. I LIGHT attack between every ability before 1.6 i was doing heavy attack clipping on the uppercut but either i am not comfortable with the new animation yet or now light attacks net the higher dps. If i fall under 30% stamina i keep up green dragon blood. You can get higher dps with keeping up caltrops (if you can spare the stamina and the slot) and usually I switch out evil hunter to flames of oblivion because it looks cooler ;-) and well it should give more dps. While closing the gap to a boss or on adds not meleeable I use that throwing knife thing which is ok for having a ranged option (should not be main dps option on ranged bosses tho) AFAIK flying blade is the highest instant cast dps skill in this game but you loose light attack weaving and the stamina cost is not sustainable. I start execution at around 15% i keep rally up but stop to refresh unstable flame.

Ur build once again is a mix of survivability and dps for new players in SOLO questing in craglorn maybe. To be fair builds like these would be recommended for IC as well since IC is semi PVP and you cant run a complete PVE build. but in end game content where you NEED to pull 12k dps and enemy players are a non-issue; U dont have time to flap ur fairy wings or waste magicka throwing cinder storm. Burning breath also applies the same debuff that 90% of good tanks are already appling to the adds and are already taunting the ranged adds. If ur getting 1 shot by projectiles/spells/heavy attacks you are bad player. You dont need to flap ur fairy wings to avoid these.... Here's a clue: block/dodge roll/interrupt and use ur gdb+rally(if ur running 2h) for amazing sustain. Also positioning and movement is key. U can be extremely resilient and still wreck face in pve without gimping ur dps or ability slots on useless abilities.

Here's a link if ur really interested in end game content PVE stam builds:http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-in-progress-dragonknight-build-compilation-updated-weekly/

Also youtube has some nice videos for stam dps: from deltia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEtJIIQK0J4 --> this is slightly outdated but once again no flappy fairy wings or cc? so he's bad too right?

Notice none of these have ur fairy flappy wings or cinderstorm for stam DK PVE. So instead of calling people bad players why not go read up on these.

EDITED for clarity

Vangy · September 2015

Also if your build was just for solo questing and just having fun, then its fine. Bear in mind i was giving OP what i felt was an end game build with a legit rotation. For solo questing u can pretty much run whatever u want and face roll with DK. PVE content is stupid easy up till u hit vet 16 pledges.

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Follow the extremely complicated rotation above and u will do just fine.

Vangy wrote: »

Yep as a main dk I can safely tell u you will be hardly using any dk skills as a dk.....

Pve dps: rally, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb wb (boss in execute range), exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe, exe. Oh and make sure u maintain rally and searing strike dot

Pvp: rally, crit Rush crit Rush crit crush, until opponent decides to fight, wb wb wb wb wb wb wb, occasional vigor + dragon leap and fossilize when u need a range cc, exe exe exe

Dude I know who you are... I have actually read some of your stuff on tameriel foundry. I know that their are strong builds out there and by no means am I questioning your knowledge, but what I have quoted from you directly above is very bad advice, and makes for very bad play. I know you know this, so why would you suggest it to someone else. You could have easily responded with your second post and been fine. Yes I'm aware of Deltia bloody butcher, which is extremely dependant on a version of igneous weapons and ravenger set that doesn't work like it did in 1.6 anymore. Igneous requires fully charged heavy attacks now and the bonus from ravenger has a longer cool down so this build no longer pulls down the same type of damage. Its ironic that you would suggest a completely out of date build that the poster clearly states how he is achieving the damage he is and then knowing what has changed since still recommend this to another player. Its almost like you are purposefully trying to sabotage him by telling him to go with stuff that doesn't work. That is what I mean by bad player.
My suggestion works fine in all stages of the game and yes you want to amend it slightly for groups but that is totally dependant on who you are running with. My advice is great for general use, and if OP decides not to use it I'm cool with that. I find that I don't need to adjust often and it works well for pvp and pve. I make no pretense that I know everything but I do know that spamming wrecking blow is bad. And just because a player decides to not follow the advice of some you tuber that is fine as well, it might mean he has a mind of his own. I love how some people think that their advice is the only stuff worth running in the whole game. Its not. I've been doing my own thing since release and I do just fine. No need to derail this post any longer so please don't take anything I've said personally it was not intended that way. I just wanted to show OP that he did have options and that is always a good thing.

Alucardo · September 2015

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

That definitely seems more like a tanky build. I'm not sure how much I would enjoy that since I'm just coming off the tanking role. The long, dragged out fights in solo play were the really killer for me as a tank.

It's an "in-the-middle" kind of build. I'm not a very good tank, so I wouldn't make my setup around that. But the build is definitely not about DPS.. more sustaining your opponent and burning them down. I haven't lost a 1v1 with this setup yet, and the last few duels I've left with 95% health after my opponent drops (the last one actually tried getting an advantage by sniping me off my horse and I still had no problems).
Keep the DoTs up, weave light attacks, ransack and shield bash. When they are low and out of resources, which they will be before you are, spam those talons, charge armaments and hit them with some high damaging heavy attacks. I love this build and won't be changing any time soon. Well, maybe when they introduce a stam morph of lava whip *HINT HINT ZENIMAX*.

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

WyldfireWyrm wrote: »

That definitely seems more like a tanky build. I'm not sure how much I would enjoy that since I'm just coming off the tanking role. The long, dragged out fights in solo play were the really killer for me as a tank.

It's an "in-the-middle" kind of build. I'm not a very good tank, so I wouldn't make my setup around that. But the build is definitely not about DPS.. more sustaining your opponent and burning them down. I haven't lost a 1v1 with this setup yet, and the last few duels I've left with 95% health after my opponent drops (the last one actually tried getting an advantage by sniping me off my horse and I still had no problems).
Keep the DoTs up, weave light attacks, ransack and shield bash. When they are low and out of resources, which they will be before you are, spam those talons, charge armaments and hit them with some high damaging heavy attacks. I love this build and won't be changing any time soon. Well, maybe when they introduce a stam morph of lava whip *HINT HINT ZENIMAX*.

Tanky setup is great...and sustainability is super important now in IC so I like your setup as well. I like the in the middle approach and I will attest that anyone with high survivability is always a tough fight. My last few 1v1 ' s were with tankier players and once or twice we both had to just call it a draw because he couldn't wittle me down and I could not kill him fast enough with the damage reduction in Cyrodiil. I don't ever have this problem in pve content though, but in pvp....players with high survivability and good dps are a force to be reckoned with. Usually it's the smarter player who wins these types of battles...I like that

iseko · September 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Well, I've been running x2 sword+board setup and utilising a lot of dk spells just fine. Lately 1v1 wb spammers barely scratch my health before I put them down. It's not a high burst DPS build, but it handles well. I am only level 26, so not everything is morphed yet

Bar 1: Offence

1. Shield Assault
2. Unstable Flame
3. Ransack
4. Molten Armaments
5. Talons
U: Take Flight

Bar 2: Defence

1. Volatile Armour
2. Defensive Stance
3. Fiery Breath
4. Dragon Blood (will replace with Vigor most likely)
5. Obsidian Shield
U: Standard

So yeah, mostly DK spells with some S+B skills in there for gap closing and debuffs. I use medium armour for extra stam bonuses and weapon damage, but you could go heavy if you wanted. I'd also suggest tri-stat food because you'll be using a lot of magicka and stam, but this build has been pretty solid for me.

Funny, looks a lot like the dude im lvling right now (lvl45). The basic princible at least I think. Im an orc

Bar 1: S&B

1. Ransack (main dps, will be using master sword later)
2. Heroic slash (60% snare, ultimate regen)
3. defensive stance (might change do dragonscale if I am running prismatic, right now need magicka for igneous)
4. GDB (going to replace with vigor)
5. Igneous
U: ferocious leap

Bar 2: 2H

1. Crit rush
2. unstable flames (Nice dot eh)
3. Immovable/ hardened armor (cannot decide which one I want)
4. Shuffle (remove snares + dodge chance is nice)
5. Rally
U: WW

Im planning on using 5 orgnum (5HA) (want to use HP regen bonus from orc, should be able to get it to 2k)
3 ashen grip (2 MA + shield and 2H sword)
3 piece shadowwalker/agility (jewelery)
Master sword

Ideally when orgnums kicks in I will have 2K(+) health regen, resulting in 1k HPS, with really, vigor and ransack should be a nice combined heal over time.

5 HA -> lots of passive mitigation

Can try weapon enchants or reduced cost/stam regen increase for more sustain.

WW because Ive seen people do well with it. Been talking to a few people and with practice it can be pretty strong in small scale (or so I've heard).

Only problem is that I dont have an execute... Ive been doing really well with it in non vet but completely untested in veteran. Ive been using ferocious as a sort of execute. Once they get to low health. Ferocious leap to KD and do nice dmg. Followed by a ransack + animation cancelled heavy attack by bash can really hit hard. Especially with CP boosting bash. Takes practice to do it right though.

Vangy · September 2015

@hardcore_gmr : my first post and 2nd are really not that different. The single target rotation is still completely the same. For any 2h dk, I'm pretty sure the pve single target rotation is to mash face on Wb. There's nothing wrong or bad about that in pve. It's your main spender. I didn't bother with pvp advice since op mentioned he doesn't like to pvp. I just added tons of more words with a complete work up of skill slots in the 2nd post tbh. Look man I can tell ur really passionate about helping people but once again, when close to 10 other guides are running things nothing similar to yours there really does have to be something wrong no? The problem with your set up is that it won't work in pve. You have no Aoe at all. Unless you have some specialised boss killer role in a group it's not going to work and your gona be dead weight in a party of four.

Also the pt of me showing that video is to point out that you don't need to run skills like reflective scales in pve. You really shouldn't have to. It was addressed to you specifically with an @ tag not op. I did point out its outdated and deltia himself has posted a comment there saying that he's working on a new update. Also you seem to have missed the very valuable advice deltia has mentioned about how buffs work and why they are important. A lot of new dps players don't know information like this. Since you can't even bother to read my post to completion and you like to develop you own straw man arguments to attack ( the whole string of oh molten armaments got changed ravager got changed Blah blah) I'm done arguing with u and I do wonder if Youve done relevant pve content with ur build such as wgt in v16. If u have with that build, kudos to u and I rest my case.

And yes let's not derail this thread anymore. Op can read up on guides and try stuff out and see what works for him.

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

Vangy wrote: »

@hardcore_gmr : my first post and 2nd are really not that different. The single target rotation is still completely the same. For any 2h dk, I'm pretty sure the pve single target rotation is to mash face on Wb. There's nothing wrong or bad about that in pve. It's your main spender. I didn't bother with pvp advice since op mentioned he doesn't like to pvp. I just added tons of more words with a complete work up of skill slots in the 2nd post tbh. Look man I can tell ur really passionate about helping people but once again, when close to 10 other guides are running things nothing similar to yours there really does have to be something wrong no? The problem with your set up is that it won't work in pve. You have no Aoe at all. Unless you have some specialised boss killer role in a group it's not going to work and your gona be dead weight in a party of four.

Also the pt of me showing that video is to point out that you don't need to run skills like reflective scales in pve. You really shouldn't have to. It was addressed to you specifically with an @ tag not op. I did point out its outdated and deltia himself has posted a comment there saying that he's working on a new update. Also you seem to have missed the very valuable advice deltia has mentioned about how buffs work and why they are important. A lot of new dps players don't know information like this. Since you can't even bother to read my post to completion and you like to develop you own straw man arguments to attack ( the whole string of oh molten armaments got changed ravager got changed Blah blah) I'm done arguing with u and I do wonder if Youve done relevant pve content with ur build such as wgt in v16. If u have with that build, kudos to u and I rest my case.

And yes let's not derail this thread anymore. Op can read up on guides and try stuff out and see what works for him.

@vangy (is this better)
Oh I get it.... cause I didn't copy and paste my build from you tube means it's wrong...ok! I never said anything I mentioned was necessary only that these are the skills that I use. And about that video.... (smh) did you catch the part where he talks about why he picks molten armament (8:50 in your video for reference)....he talks specifically about medium weaving attacks to trigger the effect (which doesn't work anymore). Perhaps you missed the part about him weaving light attacks to trigger the insane weapon damage buff from ravenger set(18:00 again for reference) (which got nerfed and now does not proc nearly as frequently as it did in 1.6). Watch your own video all the way through then sit with the new patch notes and realize that the build described in that video is absolute trash now for endgame, because the keys to it.. (Deltia's words, not mine) are the bonus from ravenger and the medium weave with molten armaments which both operate differently then it did in 1.6. Yes deltia talks about buffs and how they work in the video and I will not debate that some of that stuff is still spot on, but to recommend a build because it came from a famous you tuber even though everything that makes the build viable has been nerfed has me seriously questioning how much you are just mirroring the out of date information from updates past. I can go find video from update 1.5 before they nerfed reflective scales and post it but that would be just as bad as what you are doing now.

For the record I am not arguing with you but merely dispelling the misinformation you keep posting and insisting on defending. Your personal attack about how I must be a detriment to a group is laughable so I will not even go there. Let me go on record now and clearly say....anything I offer as advice to any player is at best a suggestion for consideration. I am not vain enough to believe that my way is the only way, I tell you what works for me and let you decide if it works for you. What I will never do is tell anyone to become a one dimensional player by spamming one skill, and I will never recommend something that I have not personally used or tested myself with great success. I am not a big you tuber though i do like to keep up on what's out there. I make no claim as to having all the answers but I do recognize bad players when I see them.