imredneckson wrote: »

Zergs are a wicked problem meaning there is no good and/or easy way to fix them. I've thought about different ways to reduce AP gain in group over a certain number, nerf AOE range and/or damage ( still laughing at the nerf impulse but buff steel tornado idea ), but I just don't know anymore.

I like how you're trying to help ZOS help us and I hope they listen to you and other player who keep trying to improve this game.

Oh, don't even get me started on steel tornado and impulse lmao... But yeah, like I said we have played this game long enough and played it in every aspect to know what works and what doesn't. Idk, I feel like ZOS listened too much to players that didn't know the game well enough and players that were (and I'm sorry to say this) noobs, which caused nerf this nerf that.

Sausage wrote: »

24 should kill 8 guys easily. No wonder this game is so dead. Btw, IC will cure lag and zerging.

It will? I've just seen more zerging if anything. People would rather not get as many stones per kill if that means their stones are safe in a large group. 24 PvE players should lose to 8 great PvP players. If their builds are meant to break up zergs and can outplay 24 players, it should happen. I don't know why there's an AoE cap. Maybe in open world cyrodiil, but something needs to be done to punish zergs in IC. If that means removing the AoE cap, then remove it. Why is ZOS promoting zergs in IC? That's for Cyrodiil.

I'm going to say this once again.

Nerfing rewards etc. will not stop zerging.

Groups zerg because there is safety in numbers and bringing more numbers will eventually turn any battle to your favour. This has been the same in every MMO which has had open world style PvP.

I have no problems with changes which mean a quality group of players can beat a larger group, however to keep the game fair larger numbers should eventually be able to overcome this. It's on the smaller groups to realise when they're skill is finally outmatched by numbers and disengage.

I run a PvP guild with around 90 members, on a planned guild raid night which we hold once a week I normally have 40-50 members online wanting to play together, should I now be turning members away or saying people can't play with some of their friends because we have to break up the raid?

Look at this video which ZOS advertised the game as, this is the PvP myself and many others were excited to come here for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxJTsq2XeKY

Cyrodiil should be treated like a sandbox, PvP should be of all types at all times and part of the nights play should be hunting/avoiding groups you do/don't want to tangle with.

Easy way to stop zerging.


One on one - 80% of stones.

Group of four - 50% of stones.

Group of six - 25% of stones.

Group of eight - 10% of stones.

Group of ten and up - 0 stones.

Group of twenty and up - the person you kill gets ALLof your stones because your a dirty zerging scumbag.

There isn´t a simple solution to this otherwise there wouldn´t be detonation running zerg groups. They add a mechanic to bust zergs resulting in adoptation of that mechanic in zergs. I definitely think that a good group of well thought builds of 8-12 should have a chance against a rubble of 20+ zergers. I watch with pity when I see good players running with zergs killing a chance of good fights.

Down with zergs!

Turelus wrote: »

I'm going to say this once again.

Nerfing rewards etc. will not stop zerging.

Groups zerg because there is safety in numbers and bringing more numbers will eventually turn any battle to your favour. This has been the same in every MMO which has had open world style PvP.

I have no problems with changes which mean a quality group of players can beat a larger group, however to keep the game fair larger numbers should eventually be able to overcome this. It's on the smaller groups to realise when they're skill is finally outmatched by numbers and disengage.

I run a PvP guild with around 90 members, on a planned guild raid night which we hold once a week I normally have 40-50 members online wanting to play together, should I now be turning members away or saying people can't play with some of their friends because we have to break up the raid?

Look at this video which ZOS advertised the game as, this is the PvP myself and many others were excited to come here for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxJTsq2XeKY

Cyrodiil should be treated like a sandbox, PvP should be of all types at all times and part of the nights play should be hunting/avoiding groups you do/don't want to tangle with.

I would always put a cap on how many people would be in our group within the moment. We too had probably almost up to 200 members in the guild. Only once we had a 24 man group and it was by accident and after it I said to everyone that we are never going to run 24 man zerg ever again. We normally had 12 man groups and at times it would be 16 man but not as often. Also, we would kick people from the guild that were not skilled players and people that were not as active with the guild as they were required to be.

All I'm saying is that this is can help reduce (the title was a pretentious title) zerging but there are other ways ZOS can go about to fix the issue.

Don't cry zerg in a game with open world PvP... thats natural

The OP is correct although their rationale is wrong. The reason why AoE caps need to be removed isn't to give an advantage to the 8-12 player (smaller?) groups; it's to punish players that utilize bad strategies and cluster around singular targets. By all rights the 12-24 player group should have no problem killing the smaller groups or single player but when they rely on numbers instead of skill/strategy then they should be punished for allowing the smaller group/single player to exploit their mistake(s).

If that large group remains spread apart and uses strategy in how they attack then the small group/single player is no better off even without AoE caps; the larger group will still have the advantage. If, however, the larger groups remains clustered and groups together around targets and in hallways then a small group/single player should be able to use an ability to exploit this mistake. I mean take Proximity Detonation, it's radius is small enough to be avoided but large enough to punish players that stand next to one another. It also only gains +5% per target so even if 10 targets are clustered it's not like the +50% is going to make it OHKO everyone; it just makes large groups actually have to apply tactics instead of brute force.

Ok, so let me get this straight. You want people to go from wrecking blow spamspamityspam to AoE spamspammityspam and that will solve the problems? It just turns from one problem to another, but it still remains a problem. 12 people spamming unlimited target steel tornado and flame ring does not equal skill, it just means you are an AoE spammer, and puts you in the same category as a wrecking blow spammer or snipe spammer etc.
Or there is a different solution. Keep the unlimited AoE targets but reduce damage for each target it hits by 3%, that way it's balanced between damage and massive AoE.

Egonieser wrote: »

Ok, so let me get this straight. You want people to go from wrecking blow spamspamityspam to AoE spamspammityspam and that will solve the problems? It just turns from one problem to another, but it still remains a problem. 12 people spamming unlimited target steel tornado and flame ring does not equal skill, it just means you are an AoE spammer, and puts you in the same category as a wrecking blow spammer or snipe spammer etc.
Or there is a different solution. Keep the unlimited AoE targets but reduce damage for each target it hits by 3%, that way it's balanced between damage and massive AoE.

You have it backwards as your method protects large groups. Think about it, if there are 20+ players all closely grouped and you use an AoE the result is 1.00 - (20*0.03) = 0.40. So the large group would take 60% less damage while the small group would still take close to full from the entire large group. The opposite method of adding damage per target hit is what would hurt a large group.

Posters keep talking about Impulse spam and Steel Tornado but how is a smaller group of ~8 protected from this currently when facing a group of 16+? Nearly everyone in the smaller group still gets hit by AoEs while the majority of the larger group remain protected.

Agreed Dan, remove the AOE caps

Player who bunch up in a super small area are rewarded because the majority of them will take less damage from aoes.

Asherons_Call wrote: »

Just post a game master at the exit of the sewers that are being camped and tell the gankers to disburse or get account locked for a week or so. After a few weeks they'd eventually get the hint.

Or, perhaps put some of the unkillable guards at each sewer entrance. If you attack in the range of the guards, you die. Range has to be larger than sniper range.

Egonieser wrote: »

Ok, so let me get this straight. You want people to go from wrecking blow spamspamityspam to AoE spamspammityspam and that will solve the problems? It just turns from one problem to another, but it still remains a problem. 12 people spamming unlimited target steel tornado and flame ring does not equal skill, it just means you are an AoE spammer, and puts you in the same category as a wrecking blow spammer or snipe spammer etc.
Or there is a different solution. Keep the unlimited AoE targets but reduce damage for each target it hits by 3%, that way it's balanced between damage and massive AoE.

BAHAHAHAHAAHA. nailed it man. Sometimes people QQ without knowing what thyre really asking for.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

The OP is correct although their rationale is wrong. The reason why AoE caps need to be removed isn't to give an advantage to the 8-12 player (smaller?) groups; it's to punish players that utilize bad strategies and cluster around singular targets. By all rights the 12-24 player group should have no problem killing the smaller groups or single player but when they rely on numbers instead of skill/strategy then they should be punished for allowing the smaller group/single player to exploit their mistake(s).

If that large group remains spread apart and uses strategy in how they attack then the small group/single player is no better off even without AoE caps; the larger group will still have the advantage. If, however, the larger groups remains clustered and groups together around targets and in hallways then a small group/single player should be able to use an ability to exploit this mistake. I mean take Proximity Detonation, it's radius is small enough to be avoided but large enough to punish players that stand next to one another. It also only gains +5% per target so even if 10 targets are clustered it's not like the +50% is going to make it OHKO everyone; it just makes large groups actually have to apply tactics instead of brute force.

From my experience, skilled groups preferred to stay small because they didn't need the numbers during 1.5 and lower. Because of the high possibility of taking on a 20+ man group with a 8 man group it was even of an incentive to stay small. When 1.6 came out the possibility of 8-12 man groups to take on 20+ man groups was pretty low even if you had a skilled group. Basically, what I'm saying is that the aoe cap punished small groups and only caused groups to grow in numbers to stay competitive.

Egonieser wrote: »

Ok, so let me get this straight. You want people to go from wrecking blow spamspamityspam to AoE spamspammityspam and that will solve the problems? It just turns from one problem to another, but it still remains a problem. 12 people spamming unlimited target steel tornado and flame ring does not equal skill, it just means you are an AoE spammer, and puts you in the same category as a wrecking blow spammer or snipe spammer etc.
Or there is a different solution. Keep the unlimited AoE targets but reduce damage for each target it hits by 3%, that way it's balanced between damage and massive AoE.

Umm sir, zerging will always be there. I'm just trying to help reduce it to reduce the lag. Plus, I disagree with you on it not taking any skill to be in a group. There is a reason why some guilds dominate cyrodiil. Its either they are skilled or in this current state they have numbers.

I love solo play too. In fact, I enjoy 1vX more than group play but because of the current state of 1vXing it's not as fun as it used to be.