Stealth should actually mean stealth in PVP.

grumlins · September 2015

If you are outside of the range of spells and you are hiding you should not be seen by pvpers period. If they are on the opposite faction stealth should mean just that stealth.

Having to spam a stealth move because players can pick you out when you are yards and yards away from them is not how hiding actually works and just like the healthbar thing in PVP (which I think should be eliminated at no time should healthbars be visible by opposing factions even with abilities on them or dots) it's a logical fallacy to support such a thing.

It breaks immersion.

Gilvoth · September 2015

grumlins wrote: »

If you are outside of the range of spells and you are hiding you should not be seen by pvpers period. If they are on the opposite faction stealth should mean just that stealth.

i agree with the part i quoted.

UrQuan · September 2015

grumlins wrote: »

If you are outside of the range of spells and you are hiding you should not be seen by pvpers period. If they are on the opposite faction stealth should mean just that stealth.

Having to spam a stealth move because players can pick you out when you are yards and yards away from them is not how hiding actually works and just like the healthbar thing in PVP (which I think should be eliminated at no time should healthbars be visible by opposing factions even with abilities on them or dots) it's a logical fallacy to support such a thing.

It breaks immersion.

I don't think you understand what the term "logical fallacy" is used for, because that isn't it. It refers to things like a strawman argument, or a slippery slope argument, etc.

Having said that, when can players see you in stealth when you're out of their detection range and out of range of spells? Seems obvious that it shouldn't happen, so under what circumstances does it happen?

Forestd16b14_ESO · September 2015

hmm.... No

caseycurtis89_ESO · September 2015

If it breaks immersion it is up for the player to decide. You can disable seeing any health bars on anyone if you want but health bars are an important UI tool. Their use should be determined by the individual not a sweeping generalization.

I do agree with your initial statement though.

Nemeliom · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

grumlins wrote: »

If you are outside of the range of spells and you are hiding you should not be seen by pvpers period. If they are on the opposite faction stealth should mean just that stealth.

Having to spam a stealth move because players can pick you out when you are yards and yards away from them is not how hiding actually works and just like the healthbar thing in PVP (which I think should be eliminated at no time should healthbars be visible by opposing factions even with abilities on them or dots) it's a logical fallacy to support such a thing.

It breaks immersion.

I don't think you understand what the term "logical fallacy" is used for, because that isn't it. It refers to things like a strawman argument, or a slippery slope argument, etc.

Having said that, when can players see you in stealth when you're out of their detection range and out of range of spells? Seems obvious that it shouldn't happen, so under what circumstances does it happen?

It happens when you go stealth while in combat. That's almost always.

Shardaxx · September 2015

I thought stealth = invisibility (from enemies) so long as you are far enough away and undetected?

PBpsy · September 2015

Stealth should be stealth, as in crouching shouldn't magically make you freaking invisible when the other guy has free line of sight and you are outside in the middle of a wide open field on a sniping bright sunny day.

The extra stupid stealth mechanics are one thing from the TES series that should not have been reproduced in TESO so well.

Callous2208 · September 2015

I really don't see a problem with it currently as far as being seen in stealth while out of range. I don't see any enemies crouched down on my screen that are out of wep range. The ones I see sneaking around are the ones I almost bump in to. Are you sure people are seeing you in stealth at a distance and not using detect pots or light? Or are you saying you should be able to spam a stealth move and never be seen by enemies no matter what the situation or counter?

Recremen · September 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

Stealth should be stealth, as in crouching shouldn't magically make you freaking invisible when the other guy has free line of sight and you are outside in the middle of a wide open field on a sniping bright sunny day.

The extra stupid stealth mechanics are one thing from the TES series that should not have been reproduced in TESO so well.

Nah don't worry about it, that's how physics works in the TES series. Just the act of crouching wraps you in a metaphysical blanket of Not Here such that you are not only invisible, but people also forget you were right next to them a few moments ago. The Thief archetype was written so strongly into the world that simple movements of the body result in profound physical changes to light and sound. It's kind of like how the Warrior archetype was written so strongly that you can both survive and recover from multiple stab wounds with ease, or how the Mage archetypal influence allows nearly anyone to pick of spellcasting if they train for it.

PBpsy · September 2015

Recremen wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Stealth should be stealth, as in crouching shouldn't magically make you freaking invisible when the other guy has free line of sight and you are outside in the middle of a wide open field on a sniping bright sunny day.

The extra stupid stealth mechanics are one thing from the TES series that should not have been reproduced in TESO so well.

Nah don't worry about it, that's how physics works in the TES series. Just the act of crouching wraps you in a metaphysical blanket of Not Here such that you are not only invisible, but people also forget you were right next to them a few moments ago. The Thief archetype was written so strongly into the world that simple movements of the body result in profound physical changes to light and sound. It's kind of like how the Warrior archetype was written so strongly that you can both survive and recover from multiple stab wounds with ease, or how the Mage archetypal influence allows nearly anyone to pick of spellcasting if they train for it.

Oh My LORE...
MIND=BLOWN!!!

Tannakaobi · September 2015

grumlins wrote: »

If you are outside of the range of spells and you are hiding you should not be seen by pvpers period. If they are on the opposite faction stealth should mean just that stealth.

So by that logic you think you should be able to have 250 people standing on top of a hill in the sun that are invisible to everyone a few yards away or more. That actually is how the game works... and now you have pointed it out, I think it's stupid. More people should diminish stealth.

grumlins wrote: »

Having to spam a stealth move because players can pick you out when you are yards and yards away from them is not how hiding actually works

At the same time, being simply invisible because you are yards and yards away is also not how hiding works. Hiding is using the environment against someone's perception. The more people, the more likely you are to be seen. At the same time the quieter you are the less likely you will be seen. It's a fine balance and the current system is good in my opinion.

grumlins wrote: »

and just like the healthbar thing in PVP (which I think should be eliminated at no time should healthbars be visible by opposing factions even with abilities on them or dots) it's a logical fallacy to support such a thing.

I agree, but it's an mmo and I know people like it. So the numbers are against us.

grumlins wrote: »

It breaks immersion.

Hardly a top priority in PVP and outside PVP you can make it as immersive as you like.