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Want to play stam? Here's your 2H...
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Yuke Combine with low slash... that will only work with one morph, forces 1h and shield and then only works if you can tag the opponents (certainly not true of all aoe).
What blade cloak does is fairly well known: 20% aoe damage reduction, and a poor melee DoT (proc rate of 1 in 3s). Morphs for a speed buff or clunky single target damage one off.
So, does it have some use - sure. Will it keep you alive through an aoe zerg bomb... probably not for very long. Does it compare favourably with the two handed utility skill - not really.
@willymchilybily Animation cancelling with wrecking blow is essentially hiding a heavy attack underneath your wrecking blow. So activate wrecking blow and then hold down a heavy attack... both will execute.
I dont understand why people think that it is only a anti zergbomb skill to be honest. Almost every good solo/small scale player uses at least one skill that is affected by the damage reduction.
Show me a sorc without curse/detonation/bats/dawnbreaker?
Show me a dk without talons, inhale, dawnbreaker, fiery breath, bats, detonation, leap?
Show me one templar without blazing, jabs, detonation, dawnbreaker, spears?
Only against stamblades it is almost useless.
Right here! Lol not a single one of those. Trust me, I'll do just fine though
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willymchilybily✭✭✭✭
@willymchilybily Animation cancelling with wrecking blow is essentially hiding a heavy attack underneath your wrecking blow. So activate wrecking blow and then hold down a heavy attack... both will execute.
can do same with bow/snipe, and DW/flurry, though i definitely consider this a weave not an animation cancel. You also waste the 20% buff to your next attack on a medium weave heavy strike (that doesnt even proc "follow up" for 10% damage buff) when you could make use of the first knock down and get a self buffed wrecking blow almost guaranteed to hit. i would expect it to increase the time it takes to get the burst off with very marginal gain in damage.Meanwhile, I'm leaning on my destro stick, waiting for an execute ... or worthwhile wall of elements.
It's such a joke that DW swords are the best magicka weapons. I wish Wrobel could see this some day, too.
Regarding stamina, I think bow and 1h+s are still lacking offensive self buffs. Bow only has attacks, and the benefit of 1h+s over 2h and DW should be more defense, yet 2h and DW are the two weapon skill lines that got heals. So I see no reason anymore to keep 1h+s behind in offense.
Doesn't have to be major brutality for those two. Increased critical damage would be nice for bows, and 1h+s could get the minor versions of brutality and savagery - or a passive that grants empower after bashing with your shield.
Also, please make axes useful.
1H + S is not a damage weapon. but it still does amazingly well with its utility. Its like you skirted over the damage reduction and cost reduction of blocking with it. A gap closer that has a stun, a spell reflect option that stuns the enemy caster and increases amount of damage you can block by 8%. a stun/bash/damage move that inflicts major defile also. I think it's in a good place personally. Not to mention an extra armor slot on the shield and extra set piece.
PSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart PactDragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless ConquerorTemplar [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofDragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Stamina] - 7201 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blood craze should heal even if you hit a shielded player. The heal should also be buffed somewhat. Blade cloak is somewhat useless in pvp imo.
PC EU
PvP only0 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭What blade cloak does is fairly well known: 20% aoe damage reduction, and a poor melee DoT (proc rate of 1 in 3s). Morphs for a speed buff or clunky single target damage one off.
It also pulls every damn mob while you're speeding through IC :-(
It would have been awesome if they had put major brutality on that skill instead of Flying Blade, alas the wrobel had other ideas.
That said, I love Blade Cloak for the speed buff on my stamplar. (just wish they'd fix the bug with the visual effect not correctly stacking with Shuffle - http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/207037/quick-cloak-shuffle)
Edited by Docmandu on September 23, 2015 4:26PM0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭willymchilybily wrote: »1H + S is not a damage weapon. but it still does amazingly well with its utility. Its like you skirted over the damage reduction and cost reduction of blocking with it. A gap closer that has a stun, a spell reflect option that stuns the enemy caster and increases amount of damage you can block by 8%. a stun/bash/damage move that inflicts major defile also. I think it's in a good place personally. Not to mention an extra armor slot on the shield and extra set piece.
Agreed. Like I said earlier, I freaking love this skill tree. Ransack for example.. omg. Lowers my opponents physical resistance by 4000, does a fair bit of physical damage and increases my armour. Follow that up with a molten armaments heavy attack and watch their health drop. Shield assault gives me a nice gap closer, stun and a small shield after impact. As you say, it's a great utility tree. I use it as my primary weapon with medium armour, so it still dishes out some amazing dps once I get those dk DoTs ticking at the same time. I doubt I'll be going back to 2h any time soon.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭willymchilybily wrote: »1H + S is not a damage weapon. but it still does amazingly well with its utility. Its like you skirted over the damage reduction and cost reduction of blocking with it. A gap closer that has a stun, a spell reflect option that stuns the enemy caster and increases amount of damage you can block by 8%. a stun/bash/damage move that inflicts major defile also. I think it's in a good place personally. Not to mention an extra armor slot on the shield and extra set piece.
The block cost reduction and block amount increase are very situational ... the situation being you blocking. The heals especially from Rally heal all the time. As a stamina DD, I also don't find myself blocking all that often with a 2h sword.
I'd really like to switch to 1h+s from 2h with my stam sorc, but I can't see how I will justify the drop in DPS and survivability (lower damage > lower heal from crit surge heals). I see the utility of debuffs and stuns in 1h+s, but it doesn't seem like an alternative to 2h in PvE.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rally and its morphs and for that matter vigor and its morphs need to be moved to fighters guild and undaunted trees respectively.
2h could then get a new skill for the bottom of its tree.
This makes the only two stamina heals in he game available to every class without restriction on weapon choice or having to PvP.
It really is a very simple fix.
The only balance issue is what you put in the place of rally and vigor In the 2H and assault trees.
But then again I am of the opinion once you get to veteran ranks regardless of how much you have or have not pvp'd all the assault and support skills should be available for purchase and upgrade. Arriving late to PVP is just a ass beating un fun experience.Edited by acw37162 on September 23, 2015 6:18PM1 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rally and its morphs and for that matter vigor and its morphs need to be moved to fighters guild and undaunted trees respectively.
2h could then get a new skill for the bottom of its tree.
This makes the only two stamina heals in he game available to every class without restriction on weapon choice or having to PvP.
It really is a very simple fix.
The only balance issue is what you put in the place of rally and vigor In the 2H and assault trees.
But then again I am of the opinion once you get to veteran ranks regardless of how much you have or have not pvp'd all the assault and support skills should be available for purchase and upgrade. Arriving late to PVP is just a ass beating un fun experience.
great idea moving them to common trees0 -
Elijah_Crow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rally and its morphs and for that matter vigor and its morphs need to be moved to fighters guild and undaunted trees respectively.
2h could then get a new skill for the bottom of its tree.
This makes the only two stamina heals in he game available to every class without restriction on weapon choice or having to PvP.
It really is a very simple fix.
The only balance issue is what you put in the place of rally and vigor In the 2H and assault trees.
But then again I am of the opinion once you get to veteran ranks regardless of how much you have or have not pvp'd all the assault and support skills should be available for purchase and upgrade. Arriving late to PVP is just a ass beating un fun experience.
Disagree with arriving late to PvP being an issue. Seige Weapons and Keep Defense can be done by the weakest characters and it's much better to have skills worth working for in those trees.
Started PvP'ing when I hit VR14 back in June. Wasn't weak at all without these skills and worked up to Vigor, Caltrops, Replenishing Barrier, etc. great rewards but completely unnecessary in order to PvP.0 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elijah_Crow wrote: »Rally and its morphs and for that matter vigor and its morphs need to be moved to fighters guild and undaunted trees respectively.
2h could then get a new skill for the bottom of its tree.
This makes the only two stamina heals in he game available to every class without restriction on weapon choice or having to PvP.
It really is a very simple fix.
The only balance issue is what you put in the place of rally and vigor In the 2H and assault trees.
But then again I am of the opinion once you get to veteran ranks regardless of how much you have or have not pvp'd all the assault and support skills should be available for purchase and upgrade. Arriving late to PVP is just a ass beating un fun experience.
Disagree with arriving late to PvP being an issue. Seige Weapons and Keep Defense can be done by the weakest characters and it's much better to have skills worth working for in those trees.
Started PvP'ing when I hit VR14 back in June. Wasn't weak at all without these skills and worked up to Vigor, Caltrops, Replenishing Barrier, etc. great rewards but completely unnecessary in order to PvP.
Was referring to vet 1 - 10pvp if you skipped pvp at rank 10 and went story.
Somewhere between 10 - 16 it evens out a bit other then that it's brutal.
Especially if your not a big group Zerg type player.
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J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭Blood craze should heal even if you hit a shielded player. The heal should also be buffed somewhat. Blade cloak is somewhat useless in pvp imo.
They just need to remove their ridiculous bleed restrictions. This includes allowing more than 3 percent of the npcs to be affected by bleeds and making any type of damage shield(npc or player made) be susceptible to dots. Those two changes alone would make dw amazing. Worth noting that the blood craze hot, while shorter than momentum, has a slightly stronger heal on my character's tool tip.
I'm also aware the most of the top pve stamina dps players are already using dual wield. I don't agree that dual wield is outright weaker than 2h. Still, the above changes should happen regardless of where the meta says dw is in terms of power.
Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blood craze should heal even if you hit a shielded player. The heal should also be buffed somewhat. Blade cloak is somewhat useless in pvp imo.
They just need to remove their ridiculous bleed restrictions. This includes allowing more than 3 percent of the npcs to be affected by bleeds and making any type of damage shield(npc or player made) be susceptible to dots. Those two changes alone would make dw amazing. Worth noting that the blood craze hot, while shorter than momentum, has a slightly stronger heal on my character's tool tip.
I'm also aware the most of the top pve stamina dps players are already using dual wield. I don't agree that dual wield is outright weaker than 2h. Still, the above changes should happen regardless of where the meta says dw is in terms of power.
My premise was not that it was weaker, and I don't doubt that clipping Rapid Strikes is the way to go for endgame dps.
It's that it has almost nothing in the way of utility compared to 2H. It might be true that the Blood Craze heal ticks for more than Rally, but Rally you can click for a burst heal making it vastly superior. That plus the gap closer and the knock back makes the 2H a no brainer for most builds. Sadly.0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭I actually use two-hander for my Sorc. It offers decent swing damage when combat isn't locked to point blank and you might get a Wrecking Blow off once in a while and a snaring gap closer for PVP. Combined with Sorc melee buff skills and shields it's a fun build to play that controls the distance between you and your opponent with knockbacks, charges, and the Thundering Presence speed boost.
The weapon isn't what's overpowered, it's the kit that fits all types of playstyles. Bow obviously has more of a purpose being a long distance physical weapon but Dual Wield lacks definition as anything other than a set and stat advantage.0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I actually use two-hander for my Sorc. It offers decent swing damage when combat isn't locked to point blank and you might get a Wrecking Blow off once in a while and a snaring gap closer for PVP. Combined with Sorc melee buff skills and shields it's a fun build to play that controls the distance between you and your opponent with knockbacks, charges, and the Thundering Presence speed boost.
The weapon isn't what's overpowered, it's the kit that fits all types of playstyles. Bow obviously has more of a purpose being a long distance physical weapon but Dual Wield lacks definition as anything other than a set and stat advantage.
I don't mean to be rude (believe me I don't), but have you read the thread or even the OP?0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭I actually use two-hander for my Sorc. It offers decent swing damage when combat isn't locked to point blank and you might get a Wrecking Blow off once in a while and a snaring gap closer for PVP. Combined with Sorc melee buff skills and shields it's a fun build to play that controls the distance between you and your opponent with knockbacks, charges, and the Thundering Presence speed boost.
The weapon isn't what's overpowered, it's the kit that fits all types of playstyles. Bow obviously has more of a purpose being a long distance physical weapon but Dual Wield lacks definition as anything other than a set and stat advantage.
I don't mean to be rude (believe me I don't), but have you read the thread or even the OP?
Yes, have you read my post or only the first sentence?0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I argue for the overuse of 2H, you go I actually use it.
I emphasize that I do not think it's overpowered or needs a nerf, you argue against me saying exactly that. Nobody said it was overpowered.
Can you see how I may have read you wrong? In fact, I still am... If that's not what you meant, then I don't know.0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭I argue for the overuse of 2H, you go I actually use it.
I emphasize that I do not think it's overpowered or needs a nerf, you argue against me saying exactly that. Nobody said it was overpowered.
Can you see how I may have read you wrong? In fact, I still am... If that's not what you meant, then I don't know.
I feel you have assumed too much and expected confrontation and quarrel where none exists. Not everyone who jumps into the thread is looking to pick a fight or disagree with you.
You state the overuse of 2H, I agree with you and tell of my experiences using it with even a Magicka build.
You emphasize that it isn't overpowered, I in the course of my description of personal experience with it agree with this assessment and phrase it yet again in my own words, reaffirming that the skills being the Best at what they do is only part of it and that the utility the skills offer is substantive enough to warrant its selection. Why you felt this was personally targeted at you rather than simple thread contribution is a mystery to me.
In short, 2H is good even for a magicka build that doesn't care about having the Best damage or the Best healing.
Which seems in line with what you originally stated and is an affirmation of your thesis. Clear?0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Clear?
Crystal, thanks for that.
As I said, I might have read you wrong. It's hard to interpret tones on forums sometimes, as I myself never meant to be confrontational, although reading back I can see how it may have been perceived as such.Edited by Jitterbug on September 23, 2015 9:28PM0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Let me start out by saying that I do not wish for 2H to be nerfed in any way, it's in a good place in my opinion.
I just think it's boring, bordering on sad, that the utilities for the other stamina weapons are so low in comparison.
The best heal, the strongest gap closer, the highest dps ability (with built in CC), and the heaviest execute all belong to 2H.
It also opens by far the most synergies with class abilities.
Nothing wrong with that in and of it self, but it does not exactly help build diversity.
The bow gets the strongest DoT and the heal debuff, and dual wield gets that annoying Whirlwind.
I have to deliberately gimp myself if I wish to roll bow/dw for example, and it's only borderline possible if I have Vigor unlocked.
I know I might be painting the picture a little gloomy, but it's been annoying me for some time, and I would like to open a discussion as to how we (they) can make the other stamina weapon choices have more utility, and how it's possible to make a stam build without 2H that's as effective as if you had 2H.
Right?
Dual Wield also has Hidden Blade and I absolutely love its morph Flying Blade and as of the IC patch the skill got a damage boost bonus to boot. Sure 2H is strong but it's also slow whereas 1H is not. Personally, I prefer Dual Wielding.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »Let me start out by saying that I do not wish for 2H to be nerfed in any way, it's in a good place in my opinion.
I just think it's boring, bordering on sad, that the utilities for the other stamina weapons are so low in comparison.
The best heal, the strongest gap closer, the highest dps ability (with built in CC), and the heaviest execute all belong to 2H.
It also opens by far the most synergies with class abilities.
Nothing wrong with that in and of it self, but it does not exactly help build diversity.
The bow gets the strongest DoT and the heal debuff, and dual wield gets that annoying Whirlwind.
I have to deliberately gimp myself if I wish to roll bow/dw for example, and it's only borderline possible if I have Vigor unlocked.
I know I might be painting the picture a little gloomy, but it's been annoying me for some time, and I would like to open a discussion as to how we (they) can make the other stamina weapon choices have more utility, and how it's possible to make a stam build without 2H that's as effective as if you had 2H.
Right?
Dual Wield also has Hidden Blade and I absolutely love its morph Flying Blade and as of the IC patch the skill got a damage boost bonus to boot. Sure 2H is strong but it's also slow whereas 1H is not. Personally, I prefer Dual Wielding.
Yeah me too, has a much cooler feel to it. I would just like to see some more useful skill in the tree
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Kartalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just use 2H as my buff bar. My main weapons are dual wielded.
And Vigor is good, but Rally is pretty irreplaceable, even with the damage buff from Flying Blade.-
Tri-faction tryhard but mainly EP in Gray Host lately (PC/NA)
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