Free respec for ESO Plus players

posthumecaver · September 2015

I am asking to myself for long time what is the benefit of being ESO+ player at the moment.

%10 XP bonus, that is a joke.

Only benefit I have at the moment is free Crowns, not even DLC while I don't spend the free crowns anyway, I can buy the DLC with those anyway.

One of the most limiting things I find this game is Respec costs, I am a person enjoying trying different things, but that respect costs in my opinion is really detrimental.

They can offer at least sub players free respecs. It is already that way in many MMOs.

My 2 cents.

Turelus · September 2015

As an ESO Plus member I don't want to see this.

The gold costs have already been cut to levels which hardly matter to anyone playing end game and we shouldn't be removing more gold sinks from the game.

If anything I feel we need more sinks in the game to counter the ever rising levels of wealth which effects new players entering the game.

Wolfenbelle · September 2015

I also am an ESO+ subscriber. In fact, I've been subscribed continuously without a break since March 2014 pre-launch. The OP is right. There is no substantive benefit to being an ESO+ subscriber. Heck, you don't even get your crowns on a month-to-month basis. Instead, you get them at the end of the sub period when you renew. My sub is set to renew every six months, so I have to wait six months for the crowns. Pointless.

As for gold sinks, they seem to be pointless also. There are multiple things other than gold that make the climb for new players a long one, CP being the worst by far.

posthumecaver · September 2015

Turelus wrote: »

As an ESO Plus member I don't want to see this.

The gold costs have already been cut to levels which hardly matter to anyone playing end game and we shouldn't be removing more gold sinks from the game.

If anything I feel we need more sinks in the game to counter the ever rising levels of wealth which effects new players entering the game.

My repair bill at the end game is a good enough gold sink for me.

Long live PUGing......

hrothbern · September 2015

Turelus wrote: »

As an ESO Plus member I don't want to see this.

The gold costs have already been cut to levels which hardly matter to anyone playing end game and we shouldn't be removing more gold sinks from the game.

If anything I feel we need more sinks in the game to counter the ever rising levels of wealth which effects new players entering the game.

Counter wealth ?

That is simple: create housing.... the bigger the estate, the higher the cost.

Iluvrien · September 2015

There are good ideas hanging around these boards for adding value to ESO+...

... sadly enabling 5 respecs a day isn't one of them.

JD2013 · September 2015

I am looking forward to the crafting bag that is coming ... Soon.

Legedric · September 2015

Well, I agree that ESO+ has no benefits, especially for "older" players and ZOS is somehow unable to get some value onto it since March... but hooray for cats and dogs in the crowns store...

But I do not agree saying that we need a free respecc, because you already get a free respecc for ESO+, you've just got to use your free crowns for it. Simple as that.

Elsonso · September 2015

As an ESO Plus member, I can't see the value in this. I just did a complete rebuild of one VR 1 character yesterday. The amount of gold I spent was significant, but it did not put a strain on the bank. It does make me stop and consider whether I want to commit to that investment, which is what needs to happen. What I mainly see here is how much it would be abused.

If they want to give me value, offer better crafting writ rewards (higher quantity, maybe tweak some of the percentages). Crafting writ rewards are nowhere close to a positive ROI.

Alucardo · September 2015

Turelus wrote: »

If anything I feel we need more sinks in the game to counter the ever rising levels of wealth which effects new players entering the game.

I want to downvote you so hard right now, if I could. Some people have a hard time maintaining gold. I hate dungeons and all that crap, so basically live inside Cyrodiil these days. I don't earn a lot of gold, and if I do I usually burn through my AP and gold on wall repair kits seems that not a lot of people actually bother. I'm ok with that, but if there were more gold sinks I'd turn into a right grouchy pants. Can barely afford mats for gear as it is.

Pangnirtung · September 2015

posthumecaver wrote: »

I am asking to myself for long time what is the benefit of being ESO+ player at the moment.

%10 XP bonus, that is a joke.

You an always unsub.

Knootewoot · September 2015

If you still sub, you fool yourself. The rate DLC is coming it is cheaper to buy crowns for the expansion instead of subbing monthly. There is nothing else in the store that is interesting except if people are completionists who want every version of the horse/senche mounts.

People who subbed (and actually don't "own" the IC-DLC) payed from 17th march (when it became b2p) around 6*€12,99 and that is around €78,00. In that time they also got around 3000 crowns.

3000 crowns in the store is €20,99 and if you buy the "DLC with that you also "own" it.

So, since there is hardly anything nice in the store and also it comes at a very slow pace, it is cheaper to just buy the DLC with crowns bought from the website.

Edit: "Own" in quotes, because it is an mmo and you never "own" anything in a mmo. They pull plug or nerf it, you lost it. Actually you rent it. Paying a montly fee is like renting a house. Buying the crows from store and then buy DLC with iit, is like buying a house which will eventually burn down.

BloodWolfe · September 2015

Legedric wrote: »

But I do not agree saying that we need a free respecc, because you already get a free respecc for ESO+, you've just got to use your free crowns for it. Simple as that.

^ this!

People want everything for nothing these days! I mean come on, you pay $15/mth for ESO+ and get 1500 crowns which covers the cost right there so the others are little perks (sure 10% gains aren't much) and access to all DLC packs instead of buying them so what more do you people want? Use your crowns to buy the respecs off the store if you're too cheap to spend the gold for it. Buy the DLC packs with those crowns if you plan to stop subbing and essentially the DLC is now free as well.

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

I also am an ESO+ subscriber. In fact, I've been subscribed continuously without a break since March 2014 pre-launch. The OP is right. There is no substantive benefit to being an ESO+ subscriber. Heck, you don't even get your crowns on a month-to-month basis. Instead, you get them at the end of the sub period when you renew. My sub is set to renew every six months, so I have to wait six months for the crowns. Pointless.

As for gold sinks, they seem to be pointless also. There are multiple things other than gold that make the climb for new players a long one, CP being the worst by far.

Ya you're wrong on that one, you get the crowns at the beginning of the term so if you do 1 month you get 1500 crowns as soon as payment has gone through, if you do 3 or 6 months you get 4500/9000 respectively as soon as the payment is processed at the start of that term not the end. I paid for ESO+ for a short time and did 1 month at first and I got the 1500 crowns right away then did a 3 month term and got 4500 crowns as soon as that term started so I think you're mixing things up and not paying attention thinking the crowns at the start of the new term were at the end of your previous term which is not the case.

Now all that said, I know in the end it is cheaper to do a larger crown purchase as you then get more for the money but some want to be subbed for those 10% gains and not officially pay for the DLC so that is fine but if you don't want to do that then don't sub and just go buy larger crown packs instead and get more crowns for your money but stop asking for everything for nothing!

Maidenname · September 2015

posthumecaver wrote: »

I am asking to myself for long time what is the benefit of being ESO+ player at the moment.

%10 XP bonus, that is a joke.

Only benefit I have at the moment is free Crowns, not even DLC while I don't spend the free crowns anyway, I can buy the DLC with those anyway.

One of the most limiting things I find this game is Respec costs, I am a person enjoying trying different things, but that respect costs in my opinion is really detrimental.

They can offer at least sub players free respecs. It is already that way in many MMOs.

My 2 cents.

Totally agree.

My friends and I have been running vet WGT and during these runs while learning the vet mode mechanism, so much gold is needed to buy grand repair kits, respec to see different tree passive that may work better, craft or buy different set armours, jewelries and weapons for different builds and improving them to gold have drained tons of gold. Even with constant sewage farming and looting to sell to Trader Guild and vendors are insuffient to make much gold fast. With daily pricing on motifs or recipes or weapons/jewelries of non favored stats, making gold is way slower than spending them. By giving free respec to ESO subscribers will be a relieve to many players like us and it will be more attractive as an incentive to encourage more players to subscribe. I remembered back in Lotro days, only subscribers have access to pvp map, minimal gold like 50 gold to respec tree skills, tons of free goodies, daily sweepstakes and free tokens (store crowns) and the ability to play all the characters you created in your account instead of limited to first 4 alts only (Lotro max was 9 characters).

Legedric · September 2015

Forget it

posthumecaver · September 2015

BloodWolfe wrote: »

Now all that said, I know in the end it is cheaper to do a larger crown purchase as you then get more for the money but some want to be subbed for those 10% gains and not officially pay for the DLC so that is fine but if you don't want to do that then don't sub and just go buy larger crown packs instead and get more crowns for your money but stop asking for everything for nothing!

What if I re-spec 20 times in a month, will 1500 crown will cover that? I don't think so.

I am subbed to SWTOR in the same time, where re-spec for Subs are for free, I go into one PVP match 1 one spec, don't like it, go to next match in another spec.

How many people stop playing ESO while they are stuck to one stamina build, bored, actually want to play magicka just get rid of boredom, but they were bankrupt and just left the game. My private time is precious, I can't grind hours long to gain enough gold for just to re-spec.

Just give people an incentive to sub to ESO and stick to the game.

Maidenname · September 2015

posthumecaver wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

As an ESO Plus member I don't want to see this.

The gold costs have already been cut to levels which hardly matter to anyone playing end game and we shouldn't be removing more gold sinks from the game.

If anything I feel we need more sinks in the game to counter the ever rising levels of wealth which effects new players entering the game.

My repair bill at the end game is a good enough gold sink for me.

Long live PUGing......

The repair cost didn't come from pugging. Every time we bring one new player from our Guild to train them for VWGT, it already drain our gold to repair.

Meanwhile....saving all my crowns to buy new hairstyle when it's out or maybe housing?

Knootewoot · September 2015

Legedric wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

If you still sub, you fool yourself. The rate DLC is coming it is cheaper to buy crowns for the expansion instead of subbing monthly. There is nothing else in the store that is interesting except if people are completionists who want every version of the horse/senche mounts.

People who subbed (and actually don't "own" the IC-DLC) payed from 17th march (when it became b2p) around 6*€12,99 and that is around €78,00. In that time they also got around 3000 crowns.

3000 crowns in the store is €20,99 and if you buy the "DLC with that you also "own" it.

So, since there is hardly anything nice in the store and also it comes at a very slow pace, it is cheaper to just buy the DLC with crowns bought from the website.

Edit: "Own" in quotes, because it is an mmo and you never "own" anything in a mmo. They pull plug or nerf it, you lost it. Actually you rent it. Paying a montly fee is like renting a house. Buying the crows from store and then buy DLC with iit, is like buying a house which will eventually burn down.

While I agree about what you are saying, your math is completely wrong:

You get 12000 crowns for 6 months, so 5500 crowns cost 35€ and the total 12k crowns would cost 76€ when you only buy the crowns. Subbing for 6 months costs 65€/72€/78€ (depending on your sub plan) so your calculations are way off

However, ESO+ is still not worth it.

Ah I was confused it seems. I know 1500 crows/month(=-30 days) but when I wrote the 6 in 6*price I forgot that's 6*1500 for crowns and I did 2 because I had in my mind that is 2 months. Silly me

.

But even then 6*1500 = 9000 crowns and not 12000.

Memberships to ESO Plus can be purchased in 30-, 90-, and 180-day durations starting at €12,99 / £8.99 for a 30-day period. When you sign up for ESO Plus, you’ll receive your full allotment of crowns right away (1500 for 30 days, 4500 for 90 days, or 9000 for 180 days=6 months).

So 9000 crowns cost 78 euro (if payed monthly) and in the crown store 3*20,99 (if payed per 3000) = around 63 euro.

But if you pay for 6 months its 10,99*6=66 euro. So then it's on par. Only then you have a stash of crowns you don't use except on respecs probably

terrordactyl1971 · September 2015

As stated in the other thread - ESO+ members should be able to queue jump into pvp

Akrasjel · September 2015

Not a subscriber

Don't see an issue depends how often it would be available ?

Paulington · September 2015

Legedric wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

If you still sub, you fool yourself. The rate DLC is coming it is cheaper to buy crowns for the expansion instead of subbing monthly. There is nothing else in the store that is interesting except if people are completionists who want every version of the horse/senche mounts.

People who subbed (and actually don't "own" the IC-DLC) payed from 17th march (when it became b2p) around 6*€12,99 and that is around €78,00. In that time they also got around 3000 crowns.

3000 crowns in the store is €20,99 and if you buy the "DLC with that you also "own" it.

So, since there is hardly anything nice in the store and also it comes at a very slow pace, it is cheaper to just buy the DLC with crowns bought from the website.

Edit: "Own" in quotes, because it is an mmo and you never "own" anything in a mmo. They pull plug or nerf it, you lost it. Actually you rent it. Paying a montly fee is like renting a house. Buying the crows from store and then buy DLC with iit, is like buying a house which will eventually burn down.

While I agree about what you are saying, your math is completely wrong:

You get 12000 crowns for 6 months, so 5500 crowns cost 35€ and the total 12k crowns would cost 76€ when you only buy the crowns. Subbing for 6 months costs 65€/72€/78€ (depending on your sub plan) so your calculations are way off

However, ESO+ is still not worth it.

Let me clear this up since you both haven't done the maths correctly. I'll do it in GBP due to that being my currency.

Monthly crowns: 1,500 = £8.99
Three-monthly crowns: 4,500 = £23.97.
Six-monthly crowns: 9,000 = £41.94.

If we compare everything to the "monthly sub" of £8.99/month, we get a CPP (Crown Per Penny) value for each package/subscription form.

Crown Packages:

1,500 Crown Package: 1.67 Crowns per penny.
3,000 Crown Package: 2.00 Crowns per penny.
5,500 Crown Package: 2.29 Crowns per penny.

Subscription Packages:

One-month Sub: 1.67 Crowns per penny.
Three-month Sub: 1.88 Crowns per penny.
Six-month Sub: 2.14 Crowns per penny.

At first glance it seems that buying 5,500 Crowns and buying the DLC outright is the best method, but is that really the case? Zenimax have suggested they intend to release a "big" DLC (Such as IC/Orsinium etc) every three months, so let's go with that assumption.

Someone who buys 5,500 Crowns four times a year (because it's the highest Crowns per penny) to buy the DLC + one or two other items spends £95.96 and gets 22,000 Crowns however 10,000 of those Crowns go to DLC, so they have a net 12,000 Crowns left over and no sub benefits.

You could buy two 5,500 Crown packs and only spend £47.98 but really you are paying JUST for the DLCs, as you only have 1k Crowns left over.

Someone who buys the six-month subscription twice a year gets all DLC for free due to being subbed, spends a total of £83.88 and gets a total of 18,000 Crowns. They have to spend nothing on DLC and so will have a net 18,000 Crowns to spend on whatever they wish and they get 10% extra gold that entire year which could easily be over a million gold, 10% extra XP and 10% faster research times.

Not only does the one who is subscribing spend less, they also have more Crowns left over to buy what they wish.

Before someone says "Oh but the person not subbing could buy 3,000 Crown packs, it would only cost £59.96 a year then which is cheaper than subscribing!" I will say this, if you do that you pay £59.96 a year for four DLCs and a net 2,000 Crowns which is absolutely nothing in context of the Crown Store's pricing scheme. If you want to pay the absolute minimum to just get DLCs then sure it is cheaper to not sub, that is 100% certain. However on a value-for-money basis it is far better to subscribe than it is to purchase Crowns directly.

Remember guys, you don't actually own that DLC you purport to own. Zenimax Online Studios merely leases you that DLC and can take it away at any time.

Hopefully that clears it up!

Knootewoot · September 2015

"Paulington wrote: »

Remember guys, you don't actually own that DLC you purport to own. Zenimax Online Studios merely leases you that DLC and can take it away at any time.

Hopefully that clears it up!

Hence I quoted "own" as in a mmo you "own" nothing. That's why I won't buy the "timed" offers wince it's just a scheme as they know the completionists will buy extra crowns upon their monthly crowns. Everything you buy in a mmo's shop or outside it is not yours.

CD Project for president

BloodWolfe · September 2015

posthumecaver wrote: »

BloodWolfe wrote: »

Now all that said, I know in the end it is cheaper to do a larger crown purchase as you then get more for the money but some want to be subbed for those 10% gains and not officially pay for the DLC so that is fine but if you don't want to do that then don't sub and just go buy larger crown packs instead and get more crowns for your money but stop asking for everything for nothing!

What if I re-spec 20 times in a month, will 1500 crown will cover that? I don't think so.

I am subbed to SWTOR in the same time, where re-spec for Subs are for free, I go into one PVP match 1 one spec, don't like it, go to next match in another spec.

How many people stop playing ESO while they are stuck to one stamina build, bored, actually want to play magicka just get rid of boredom, but they were bankrupt and just left the game. My private time is precious, I can't grind hours long to gain enough gold for just to re-spec.

Just give people an incentive to sub to ESO and stick to the game.

Maybe it's just me but why would anyone want, or need to respec that many times in a month? At that point that is your problem and spend either the crowns/buy more crowns or spend the gold but don't expect Zenimax to offer up free or unlimited respecs because you can't decide on a spec to play!

terrordactyl1971 · September 2015

1 free respec per month seems reasonable to me with ESO+

talon_vib14_ESO · September 2015

You can make the gold needed to respec easily in 1-2 hours just steeling on multiple characters and fencing the items. I've respecced my characters multiple times since IC. Also once you get further in the game you'll have enough skill points to unlock most skills so you only really need to respec morphs to try new builds.

talon_vib14_ESO · September 2015

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

1 free respec per month seems reasonable to me with ESO+

Pretty sure you can afford two from the crown store every month with the ESO+ crowns.

terrordactyl1971 · September 2015

talon_vib14_ESO wrote: »

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

1 free respec per month seems reasonable to me with ESO+

Pretty sure you can afford two from the crown store every month with the ESO+ crowns.

I meant 1 free re-spec in addition to your 1500 crowns.

Wolfenbelle · September 2015

BloodWolfe wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

I also am an ESO+ subscriber. In fact, I've been subscribed continuously without a break since March 2014 pre-launch. The OP is right. There is no substantive benefit to being an ESO+ subscriber. Heck, you don't even get your crowns on a month-to-month basis. Instead, you get them at the end of the sub period when you renew. My sub is set to renew every six months, so I have to wait six months for the crowns. Pointless.

As for gold sinks, they seem to be pointless also. There are multiple things other than gold that make the climb for new players a long one, CP being the worst by far.

Ya you're wrong on that one, you get the crowns at the beginning of the term so if you do 1 month you get 1500 crowns as soon as payment has gone through, if you do 3 or 6 months you get 4500/9000 respectively as soon as the payment is processed at the start of that term not the end. I paid for ESO+ for a short time and did 1 month at first and I got the 1500 crowns right away then did a 3 month term and got 4500 crowns as soon as that term started so I think you're mixing things up and not paying attention thinking the crowns at the start of the new term were at the end of your previous term which is not the case.

Shouldn't be so quick to tell people they are wrong unless you know what they have experienced. I moved from Los Angeles to the east coast earlier this year. Had no internet at all from mid April until end of May during the period I was emptying my old house and traveling to the east coast. But my ESO+ sub is a 6-month one. So when I finally reestablished internet connection and got back into the game, yes, crowns were waiting for me. But I have received 0 crowns since the auto renewal of my sub in June. I contacted ESO support to ask why and they said the crowns are paid out when the sub renews. So yes, in a sense you are right. The crowns are paid out at the start of a new sub period, but that also works out as the end of a sub period too. Get it?

My point was (and remains) that the crowns are not paid out month-to-month. That, for me anyway, just adds to the list of reasons why there is little value in the subscription. Especially a 6-month sub when you have to wait a full half year for any crowns from ZOS.