Pet Sorc/pet sets/ damage/magic damage

NativeJoe · September 2015

Pet sorc doesn't seem viable to me. Even with 44-53k magic

Reasons:
Magic on a 1/10th of your mana to spell power ratio doesn't seem to have the impact it used to at all.
Pets did not scale in damage from vr12-vr16 at all
Pets AI is still stupid/ and the ability to control them is really buggy/there is no interface to interact with to manage them
Bugs surrounding pets-> you remain in combat 2-6 seconds longer then anyone else so you can't unlock/get to chests in IC
The pets have a inadequacy complex when it comes to many bosses or mini bosses in sewers as well as other players... IE breaking stealth to attack, chasing down a boss you haven't attacked or even seen across the room, and generally hindering your game play.
Pets do not scale to enemies while leveling -> IE try to go to cyrodil with a pet and you'll notice it can't hit anything because it didn't scale and the mobs did
Pet sorcs do not have a vr13,vr14,vr15,vr16 set.
we are not strong in pvp...the pets attacks do close to no damage with everyone spamming heals especially, and even pet detonation with 51k mana does 4k damage.
Pet detonation is way less responsive and that just isn't fair when everyone else can animation cancel
The damage...the dps is absolute garbage. Alot of people are pulling 20-30k dps in pve. Trying to pull anything over 10k is like pulling teeth in full legendary equipment and vr 16 weps/jewlery.

Rational thinking:
1. I think since we lose 2-4 slots on pets I think they should do more damage then 800-1300...(in full legendary gear at 44k mana)
2. The AI is already bad, having them be CC-able, 2 attacks able to destroy them, and them having to run up to the enemy is just crazy x.x so give some scaling to their defense or something from the casters magic
3. Give us some sets
4. And what I believe is the biggiest thing... check the mana to spell power ratio, and perhaps adjust it if a pet is summoned or something because I used to be able to keep up with other players in dps and offer utility. now that is just a far off dream.
5. Give us a clickable interface or something showing us if the command has actually going through. because 9 out of 10 times I'll try to tell my pets to focus something and they completely ignore me.

Conclusion:
Us pet sorcs need some serious attention here. There is a reason if we show up in a pvp raid we're told to shut off our pets or leave group, there is a reason when we get in on a veteran dungeon people automatically stick up their noses and want to swap us out for someone else.
We're Way under-powered... and in pvp it is just laughable. 4k damage pet sacrifice, from a 51k mana stacked build? spamming it isn't an option because the cast time is so high and it's obviously interruptible. Steel tornado is spam-able and can hit for 8k in pvp, and uppercuts animation cancling is crazy, shield breaker sets are setting us on fire... so it's just a mascre out there.
We havn't had any attention since vr12, I think its our turn next.

remilafo · September 2015

Yeah the pets are quite the waste indeed. I agree.

The only legitimate uses i had from them are (this is at End-game content, such as V15+ stuff)

1 - Stacking magicka as you said from necropotence set to play shield tank build as sorc.
2 - being cannon fodder because well some fights are just easier with more targets for the npc's to hit.
3 - making some world bosses solo-able while questing
4 - a distraction in pvp, pet aggro range is like 40m...

Their Dps is awful, their survivability is very poor and their intelligence/controllability is also quite poor.

This latest patch helped a bit but it is still far from enough, maybe if the winged twilight hit like the atronach then it would be wroth using and if the clanfear Actually did a REAL taunt it would be worth using.

Violynne · September 2015

NativeJoe wrote: »

Pets did not scale in damage from vr12-vr16 at all

Sorry, but I had to stop reading at this point because, well, you shouldn't be using your pets for damage.

They're for pulling aggro. This should be self-explanatory on why this is a benefit, not a burden.

CP5 · September 2015

Violynne wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Pets did not scale in damage from vr12-vr16 at all

Sorry, but I had to stop reading at this point because, well, you shouldn't be using your pets for damage.

They're for pulling aggro. This should be self-explanatory on why this is a benefit, not a burden.

2 skill slots, each, and often need their hands held to be made useful. That being said I have made use of the clannfear, but the twilight only serves to get itself killed and the fact that pets only scale their damage and only off of max magicka greatly limits their usefulness.

Van_0S · September 2015

So, you want ZOS to Buff the pets ?, how about the crit damage that is done to you is transfered to your pet, thus resultingresulting in the pets death.

gurneyhalleck00 · September 2015

remilafo wrote: »

Yeah the pets are quite the waste indeed. I agree.

The only legitimate uses i had from them are (this is at End-game content, such as V15+ stuff)

1 - Stacking magicka as you said from necropotence set to play shield tank build as sorc.
2 - being cannon fodder because well some fights are just easier with more targets for the npc's to hit.
3 - making some world bosses solo-able while questing
4 - a distraction in pvp, pet aggro range is like 40m...

Their Dps is awful, their survivability is very poor and their intelligence/controllability is also quite poor.

This latest patch helped a bit but it is still far from enough, maybe if the winged twilight hit like the atronach then it would be wroth using and if the clanfear Actually did a REAL taunt it would be worth using.

Agree here with the world bosses being solo-able i've done nearly all of them solo at the lower levels. I like using the volatile since he does damage when he dies and aggros at least on in a 3 monster mob

AshTal · September 2015

I agree pets are completely worthless.

I really wanted to be a summoner sending my pets to fight for me, but they would struggle to kill a level 1 rat in the imperial sewers. There damage is terrible and they should never be used in a group of PvP because of how weak they are and how stupid.

Only thing I would like to see is them scalling off more than just magic as I didn't min max my stats.

Tessie · September 2015

There are definitely scenarios in PvE where they the Clannfear helps with tanking. But if you use pets forget about them respecting your CC's. As soon as you can place a rune cage, that's where they'll run to. So you have to open up on a different target, then rune cage a 2nd. AI... meh.

ADarklore · September 2015

It all depends on how you play... pets aren't viable everywhere but are awesome for solo PvE content; I created a Stamina Sorc JUST for the Clannfear pet since I only do solo PvE and it has made soloing all open-world bosses possible. Of course, adding in Hardened Ward and Critical Surge helps... but those three are the only Sorc abilities I use in my build.

NativeJoe · September 2015

Violynne wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Pets did not scale in damage from vr12-vr16 at all

Sorry, but I had to stop reading at this point because, well, you shouldn't be using your pets for damage.

They're for pulling aggro. This should be self-explanatory on why this is a benefit, not a burden.

So pets should only be used for tanking? or pulling agro? they get 2 shot by just about anything, and as a full pet spec I cannot tank any of the new content... and old content I can by the skin of my teeth. my shields just arn't strong enough to take bursts of 60k damage.

And one can't just get into a group by listing themselves as a "utility" lol. As for the others here talking about rune prison soloing world bosses. Sure u can CC things to death, and drag out a fight long enough to do alot of soloing. but once again I gotta say everything I can do, stamina users can do better. Everything I can do, Spell power stackers can do better. I specced myself this way with the expectation that ZOS would support this type of game play, because u know... there is an entire skill line dedicated to it, and their used to be sets for it. Instead of just assuming im brain damaged for even thinking about using these skills... lets address the actual issue. Lack of support for it.

Think of it this way... what if Zos stopped supporting stealth for nightblades, or burst heals for templars? or damage mitigation for tanks?

The only type of sorc Zos is currently supporting are Stamina sorcs (barley), and spell power stacking sorcs. Both of those alienate an entire skill line sorcs have at their disposal, and an entire way to build a character.

Whether this skill line is to be used for tanking, or dps their still needs to be supporting gear and scaling benefits for it. Currently that is just not the case. (for tanking... you simply can't because blocks, resistances, and whatnot don't transfer to the shields and many bosses like the first boss of imperial prison do flurries of hits which shred a light armor user to little bits in less then 2 seconds.) ( for dps, refer to my entire first post lol it's just not feasible)

olsborg · September 2015

Good post OP, agree wholeheartedly about how bad deadric pets are atm.

Nerouyn · September 2015

I can't speak for vet levels and I know there's long been a problem of spell damage not scaling to the same heights as weapon damage, and that impacting negatively on lots of class skills.

But sorc pets are OP in some scenarios. Sorc is the only class I can play completely naked and solo world boss mobs. Solo'ed my first dolmen too, a few levels under it and in really crappy gear. Pets are fantastic tanks and crowd control. With them and a resto staff you're a god.

I wouldn't try to claim they're problem free, but they're certainly not worthless.

Brrrofski · September 2015

Never used them. Plenty of way better things to have on your bar.

Bhakura · September 2015

Agree, when i made stam sorc first idea was to run in with a pet. In pve it was quite useful while leveling up, volatile scamp kept bosses agrod while i bashed away at it, scamp always died but bosses did shortly after aswel hardly ever getting hit by it.
Then reworked build with defensive/heal skills and didnt even have to worry about bosses hitting me anymore either, survavibility was way better then before the 2 wasted slots on one pet that hardly does any damage.
So pets could definitely use some love, also...
Skillbar really needs an extra slot dedicated only to toggles so you dont have to waste two slots on one skill not to lose the toggle if you are swapping weapons constantly.
Every class has toggles and i really dont udnerstand why a toggle has to disapear when you swap a weaopn, buffs dont? You are forced to slot them twice in a very limited skillbar limiting it even more and there is simply no toggle worthy enough to waste two skill slots on if you want it active all the time.

Vangy · September 2015

Guys don't worry I have the ultimate fix for all pets.

--> pets will now attack whoever summoned them

GuyNamedSean · September 2015

Brrrofski wrote: »

Never used them. Plenty of way better things to have on your bar.

That's exactly the problem. They're useless. They should actually be viable in combat.

Derra · September 2015

There are builds where they´re useful. Sadly you have to tailor your whole build around pets to get the a point where they´re vaible. Considering this is a whole skillline of the sorcerer it should not work that way.

Also can you still not order your pets to attack your target on console? If that´s still the case my statement is only true for the pc version anyways.

Dracane · September 2015

I'm telling them since months, that pets need improvements. But all they do is nerfing them further and further which each update.

Pets are the only offensive abilities in the game not scaling with champion points such as elemental expert or spell erosion. People in pvp get stronger and stronger, get more resistances and pets always remain the same.
Please Zenimax, pets dominate an entire skill line and it costs so much to use them. Please do what needs to be done to make them usefull.

Always keep in mind, that you have to sacrifise 4-6 skillslots for them. They don't deal serious damage not even with daedric prey active. You also have to take the trash morph of daedric curse and have to loose velocious curse, which is a big problem in my opinion.

Dracane · September 2015

Violynne wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Pets did not scale in damage from vr12-vr16 at all

Sorry, but I had to stop reading at this point because, well, you shouldn't be using your pets for damage.

They're for pulling aggro. This should be self-explanatory on why this is a benefit, not a burden.

Wrong, pets ARE meant to deal damage.
Daedric Prey increases their damage by 55% and the twilight has a passive increasing its passive. So yes, they are supposed to deal damage. Which they don't though. Biggest problem is the Twilights slow attack speed.

LameoveR · September 2015

You all don't know how to use pets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpI2CbPtyFA

Leeric · September 2015

Ya they are awful and the fact that you have to use 4 slots for 2 of them to be out the whole time, makes them especially useless.

Glantir · September 2015

We need more options to control pets attack and not attack is not enough then Pets should not be target of Boss mechanism like the meteor of the serpent or chain lightning of the Mage on these encounters are Pets a disadvantage....

Or just remove Pets... the only Pet is worth it to slot is the Restoring Twilight (sometimes) it attacks on range and buff my group (thanks for the buff nerf ZoS -.-)
I only use her on my Overload bar because it make some damage while i spam light attacks....

The Atronarch is nice with Daedric Prey on longer fights. But I dont like Daedric Prey......

remilafo · September 2015

LameoveR wrote: »

You all don't know how to use pets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpI2CbPtyFA

If this is your example to justify the "okayness" of pets then it is kinda weak. This video is pre imperial city patch and that sorc is V14 with totally maxxed out gear other classes such as a kiting Nb would do what he did faster and easier.

That same sorc could have this exact video not using pets and instead harness magicka and do better dps.

Look, nobody is claiming pets are useless in Open world questing infact i would maybe even say they are over-powered there but as soon as you hit Vet content EVEN with a "perfect" pet setup they still fall VERY VERY Far from other build designs and given that we only have five action bar slots there are better choices to put on it than pets.

As i stated earlier, if the clanfear was given an actual taunt it would suddenly become a viable choice. The twilight needs a make-over, i can't tell if it's supposed to be a dps pet or a support pet either way it fails t both.

The atronach is actually pretty good and i would change anything except maybe give it like 5-8 more seconds of active time.

zornyan · September 2015

Only one thing they need to do to fix the issue with pets.

Make them a unique ability that can be casted out of a separate bar, so they don't take up 4 skill slots.

Or even half way would be just being able to only have them on one bar to cast them

Infact this should be true for all abilities, such as mage light, or bound armor, I realise that there's a majority of magika skills compared to Stamina skills that work like this.

But I honestly feel that using 4-6 slots on 2 bars is kind of crippling when we only have 10 to play with. That part of the system needs reworking.

NativeJoe · September 2015

LameoveR wrote: »

You all don't know how to use pets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpI2CbPtyFA

Sigh***... okay people for leveling outside cyrodil... and general outside of end game pets are fine.

Your not trying to burn a boss down before he switches modes and kills everyone. Valk)
Your not trying to race through a dungeon as fast as possible to get the achievement or key.
Your not having to try to take out other players which are all part healer now.
Your not fighting people with a specific set built to destroy you.(shield breaker)
Your not in Imperial city running around and having elite guards with 1.3 million hp getting on to you because ur pet decided to wander off on their own and go snag the boss 20m away.

And even in this video... I never said you couldn't "wait" out some bosses with CC, and pets... But that isn't how the game is played o.o You can't get past the first boss of imperial prison this way. go ahead... go there and try it if you don't believe me.
or the majority of content to be honest. in vr14 gear I could solo the atronoch boss in AA... does that mean I should? no! it took me like 11 minutes to do it. <.<

(((((((There are builds where they´re useful. Sadly you have to tailor your whole build around pets to get the a point where they´re vaible. Considering this is a whole skillline of the sorcerer it should not work that way.~ Derra)))))))))

I am tailored this way and im telling you they are @!#$@#$% in end game o.o My personal experience, I am magic stacked (which is supposed to help immensly with pets) have necropotence x5, 2 infused vr 16 armor pieces, amulet of the healer , ring of the healer legendaries, 1 arcane ring of wisdom, 2 vr16 legendary weps of wisdom (sharpend and precise) and 230Champion points. my max magic is 53.3k ... could go slightly higher. but my point is I am the definition of tailored "this" way, and im telling you that it's just not viable.

People we're not arguing that pet sorcs can't solo mammoths out in the rift at vr16 lol.... we're referring to the end game. Vet dungeons, pvp raids, imperial city, pledges,etc. And it's not the players fault for sucking so bad going this route. it's the lack of support for this type of game play, skill line, or whatever you want to call it.

I get some of non-vet characters are here to voice support for pets, but I'm sorry, you just don't know what your talking about yet. You don't get end game gear from regular dungeons, dolmans, world bosses, and giants in skyrim. And if you try to run a pet build in the end game... alot of people will ask you if you have another set and to drop your pets whether it is pvp or pve. and your going to be considered the "weak-link" of the group and are the first to go if anything goes wrong. because You NEED** deep dps to get past some events. and in those cases your more of a liability.

ADarklore · September 2015

NativeJoe wrote: »

People we're not arguing that pet sorcs can't solo mammoths out in the rift at vr16 lol.... we're referring to the end game. Vet dungeons, pvp raids, imperial city, pledges,etc. And it's not the players fault for sucking so bad going this route. it's the lack of support for this type of game play, skill line, or whatever you want to call it.

I get some of non-vet characters are here to voice support for pets, but I'm sorry, you just don't know what your talking about yet. You don't get end game gear from regular dungeons, dolmans, world bosses, and giants in skyrim. And if you try to run a pet build in the end game... alot of people will ask you if you have another set and to drop your pets whether it is pvp or pve. and your going to be considered the "weak-link" of the group and are the first to go if anything goes wrong. because You NEED** deep dps to get past some events. and in those cases your more of a liability.

As I stated earlier, it depends on how people CHOOSE to play, and for me as a Stamina Sorc, the way I utilize my Clannfear works perfectly BECAUSE I am not reliant upon him for damage, I utilize him as an aggro draw while I do damage either from range or melee... no matter which, I'm not the initial focus of enemies and that's how I prefer to play.

Furthermore, not everyone runs trials, PvP, or even group content... some of us stick strictly to things we can SOLO, and for that, pets help immensely. I think if pets became more potent, all you'd hear about are nerf demands because no other class has access to free 'help'. Sure they are a toggle, same as Magelight, Bound Armor, etc... but none of those do damage or draw aggro away from the player like Sorc pets do.

I have no doubt that in certain end game content and group situations pets can be a poor choice and sometimes even detrimental, but this isn't anything different than other skills in other class trees being situational as well. ESO allows players to 'play how they want' but they never said they'd cater to everyone's choice of build. Having a tree which offers pets should not be construed to mean players are encouraged to create a build revolving around pets, but if you do make that choice, then you take the good with the bad; clearly, not every conceivable build is viable in all ESO content.

Violynne · September 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Wrong, pets ARE meant to deal damage.
Daedric Prey increases their damage by 55% and the twilight has a passive increasing its passive. So yes, they are supposed to deal damage. Which they don't though. Biggest problem is the Twilights slow attack speed.

Yes, the pets do damage, but I don't use them for damage.

I use them to pull aggro, which to me, is precisely what I want, nay, need them to do. With 6 spells, I can lay down far greater damage than pets can do, and it's much easier when I'm not having to dodge mobs.

I've not done this in dungeons, honestly, so it'll be interesting to see how they fare. I'm almost ready for Craglorn, pets and all.

Since I don't have a group nor belong to any guild, it's going to be a rough solo trip, if it can be done at all this way. I guess I'll see for myself.

Leeric · September 2015

The fact none of you have a VR 16 or even a VR 14 sorcerer and you are trying to argue how good pets are...pretty much explains everything.

Dracane · September 2015

Leeric wrote: »

The fact none of you have a VR 16 or even a VR 14 sorcerer and you are trying to argue how good pets are...pretty much explains everything.

I am V16 since this upate went online and you don't know, if all of the people here are V16 or not.

NativeJoe · September 2015

I don't even know what to say to your guys's posts...

I'm not saying you can't solo, grab agro with pets, or farm materials. I'm saying theirs a viability issue and wall with pledge level dungeons/ IC/and pvp content.

Doing quests, soloing, and farming. sure you can do it. As can everyone elses build and still not have viability issues doing pledges, IC, and pvp content.

Yes pet sorcs are powerful early on... because they scaled them and supported them through that content. at the newest level of content you'll find that simply isn't true. Idk how much clearer I can be on what im nit-picking on.

Stranglehands · September 2015

It'd be nice to have a heavy armour pet set because tanking is the best use i've found for pets- for the distraction and the poor man's dragon blood when it's killed or unsummoned