About Tel vars, and player cooperation

Winterpsy · September 2015

There's an issue I've talked about with a couple of folks I know.

Namely, with the current setup, tel var distribution does not take player contribution into account. It simply divides it among the peers in the area, who flagged the mob.

This creates an environment that instead improving coop, introduced quite the opposite.

Let me explain it through an example.

Two players join up together. They balanced out the roles, skills to be able to effectively kill mobs, gain tel vars, there's a communication between the two that further enhances coop, they can react to enemy players and zerg swifter and tactically.
Another player, a random joins them, because he wishes to reach the goals, and quests too, but unable to alone. And also, going in numbers lowers the perceived risk (till a certain limit).
Now. RandomGuy is lower level. He is made a bit more durable due to the Battle spirit, but his DPS and armor ratings are low. He cannot evenly contribute to the group. Simply because he lacks the level and equipment.
The group percieves him as a "parasite", because his presence decreases their gains. And the more are around the more risky it is as well. Randoms with whom you have no tested cooperation, and most often neither voice com, either a) can follow the pattern well or b) (which is from my experience more common) increases your risk of being busted, and mowed down by a roaming Zerg. (Because random guy, driven by survival instincs going to run towards your direction, when detected, in hope to get some assistance, thus getting the whole team discovered by the pursuers)

This creates a behavior where everyone is his own, and stick-to-your-mates, and trying to get rid of randoms, stragglers, characters whom due to mathematical disadvantage can barely pull their own weight.

Even writing this down I feel bad. I believe every player should have equal chance to get the content, do quests, picked into a team, but there's this whole ordeal.

They have an option to join a zerg, but IMHO most 2-3 player IC commandos will try to get rid of the Newb.

This would not happen if every player received TV stones according to their contribution. Like percentage of damage done, blocked, or healed.

Have you noticed this issue too?

Johngo0036 · September 2015

Hi,

I have a VR5 Templar whom would fall into the category of not pulling their weight,
And it can be difficult to find people to group with exactly as you put it,

I had the opportunity of running with a group yesterday and feel that i did my part to earn what was rightfully mine,

I have a bigger issue and that is with chests that require a mob to be killed and while you are nuking the mob some poor poor soul who has no friends and no life sneaks in and loots your chest and then leaves you to kill the mob...........

Rune_Relic · September 2015

@ OP ..that's what they call elitism and you should feel bad.

BUT... you have a valid point.
1. Should ZOS encourage elitism in the hope of improving player quality (in reality making the majority of people undesirables and declined...alienating the playerbase in the process and losing sales).
2. Should ZOS encourage low skill grouping to get everyone to play together without regrets (in reality creating massive groups of players roaming around but filling coffers).

I think as long as hardcore guilds and PUGs exist...the problem kind of fixes itself.
Hardcore gamers will decline everyone except guild members.
General gamers will accept anyone to have some fun and try and kill stuff.

A true solution would actually be Hardcore gamers organising PUGs into an effective secondary unit.
While at the same time keeping the primary unit fully effective.
Then you can feel good while being bad, by helping the community

This is not an alien concept to most military strategists using militia.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I have a bigger issue and that is with chests that require a mob to be killed and while you are nuking the mob some poor poor soul who has no friends and no life sneaks in and loots your chest and then leaves you to kill the mob...........

It's always been like that from the biggest treasure chests down to the most insignificant node in the game. I guess you were not around during the epic Nirncrux Wars in upper Craglorn

But there's a major difference here : You can play "fair" in Craglorn and not touch the node while the other player kills the mobs. There's a fair chance that player will get the node in the end. In IC, there are too many people around and chances are, if you pass on looting the chest because others are fighting the mobs, the chest will be looted by someone else that doesn't deserve it either. Basically in IC, choosing to fight the mobs means giving up on the chest.
In our groups we "take turns" and the one who's in turn for the chest doesn't fight the mobs at all, we do it for him/her.

NB : thats no reason for calling people "no-lifers" and whatnot.

Winterpsy · September 2015

There are always those opportunists, but they are there no matter of game, dlc, genre.

We have to deal with their presence. (Actually they do add to the flavor. Thieves, we gotto have thieves

)

Rune_Relic wrote: »

@ OP ..that's what they call elitism and you should feel bad.
.

Nah, sorry, I am myself not feeling bad, as I usually am too laidback to care who joins me, or how many stones I lose.

On the other hand I understand the issue on both sides. The Random, who tries to find other survivors, commandos, whatever, to be able to do the quests, and enjoy some good teamwork action,
only to encounter meanies who are made mean by the game system, and at the end of the day, he just feels bad.

And the commandos, who happen to enjoy collecting APs, TVs, mats whatever, and maximalists in their ways of action just to get wrecked by a mistake of a guy who has just joined tagging everything for the equal loot.

Been on both sides.

Seth_Black · September 2015

Smells like greed in here

Option 1:
Talk to the guy, let him know that you want to max stone gains from kills and you don't want him to interrupt

Option 2:
Go somewhere else ...SIX districts ...plus WHOLE sewers, don't tell me there's not enough space for three guys

Winterpsy · September 2015

150 mats for a single piece of vet16 equipment does indeed, sadly, generate greed. (as you can purchase those mats from the TVstones).

Option 1: One situation I witnessed ended up with ongoing discussion. Two things happened: One person got ganked bad, while he was texting the lone guy who just wanted to join them, because--> console, no text chat. He swap to the Ps4 homescreen to type one message. The reply was: "waaaat! "....and the guy kept following. Either a language barrier, or the "more you try to get rid of me the more I will continue trolling you" reaction.

This is ofc a single example.

Option 2: It wont solve the problem sadly. A new district a new stragler looking for group.

The root of the problem here is the distribution system, which could use a bit of tweaking. (like increase in TV stones up to a certain group member number, then a swift decrease above that, or distribution based on participation)

Tavore1138 · September 2015

Worst thing I see is members of your own alliance standing off in stealth while you fight and, if you lose, taking on your weakened opponent to get both sets of stones. Real scumbag play.

Winterpsy · September 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Worst thing I see is members of your own alliance standing off in stealth while you fight and, if you lose, taking on your weakened opponent to get both sets of stones. Real scumbag play.

Wow!

Thinking it over, this race for the TVstones, and how they are distributed really makes everyone your opponent.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

Winterpsy wrote: »

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Worst thing I see is members of your own alliance standing off in stealth while you fight and, if you lose, taking on your weakened opponent to get both sets of stones. Real scumbag play.

Wow!

Thinking it over, this race for the TVstones, and how they are distributed really makes everyone your opponent.

Yes, but that what is making IC so good (imho). No more blind and mindless rushing into *anything glowing red". There must be situational awareness and choices to make at any time. You don't get that anywhere else in the game : all PVE mobs are predictable once you know them, only PvP can provide unpredictable. And overland Cyro is more about big groups taking keeps. If you want clever, strategic and unexpected, IC is the only place, and it's great.

I managed to solo the main quest part that takes place in the arena district ! When I entered the arena there where 10+ blue inside, so I thought "fine, let's get this over with". We started fighting but then a group of 15+ reds entered and wiped all the blue (except me). Instead of thinking "crap, forget it and die for this time", I managed to hide behind a pillar, carefully tagging each of the mobs once with a light attack while the 15+ were running all over the place. My quest was validated, I waited for all reds to leave (zergs are powerful but sooooo silly), to finally get to loot the chest, and I could carry on with my quest.

I like to play with my brains too and IC is the perfect place for that.

I don't actually wait for other blues to get slain to collect TelVar Stones from their opponent, because I don't think that's really fair, but I can't deny it's clever.

Winterpsy · September 2015

That's true what you wrote anitajoneb.

I enjoy the atmosphere too, apocaliptic street-fighting for scraps.

That aside, I personally would not mind a bit of tweak, that rewards co-op up to a certain limit, and wont punish you for not yet being vet16 with top notch gear.

timidobserver · September 2015

The actual reason the people want to get rid of the lowbie random follower is because, for whatever reason, they are more likely to grab chests like it is a competition. If you are going to leech at least leave the chests alone.

Ganj · September 2015

Or simply go out from sewers for once and try to do somethin under the beautiful sky and fresh air. Hey also you could find some people to kill and take their TV. Beside it could be more FUN.