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Alright... We've fixed all the other ways of spamming to avoid damage, its time to look at NB cloak
rordogg
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Alright I'm not normally one to gripe but this issue is becoming apparently more and more obvious to me as I've been playing imperial city. Last night I had the pleasure of running into a magicka NB who would constantly spam cloak to avoid my hits, and then attack. No biggy for me usually but every single time I got him low on health he'd still spam cloak out and run through another room full of npcs trying to drag me through them. I stopped chasing. But then he'd just regen up and try again. Failing every time. This lasted for the course of 15 minutes till he finally decided to drag one of the roaming bosses on me that I could then not get rid of while he continued to spam cloak and pick at me while I dealt with the boss. To me this is a joke.
Zenimax has addressed shield stacking, dodge rolling, and bolt spamming. But a NB can still continually spam cloak to not only dodge you. But escape between all the NPCs that you are then forced to deal with. I'm looking for constructive ideas here. None of the "get gud" comments because theirs absolutely no skill in spamming invisibility so they can't hit you but you can hit them. Cloak either needs som sort of treatment like dodge roll, theirs no reason you should be using it more than atleast every 4 seconds without a punishment. Or my other idea is while a NB is in combat with another person npcs will still see them through invisibility to avoid the fact they can run away and use them as a wall every time. But I'm open to ideas. Let's be constructive here.
Edited by rordogg on September 19, 2015 9:45AM Zenimax has addressed shield stacking, dodge rolling, and bolt spamming. But a NB can still continually spam cloak to not only dodge you. But escape between all the NPCs that you are then forced to deal with. I'm looking for constructive ideas here. None of the "get gud" comments because theirs absolutely no skill in spamming invisibility so they can't hit you but you can hit them. Cloak either needs som sort of treatment like dodge roll, theirs no reason you should be using it more than atleast every 4 seconds without a punishment. Or my other idea is while a NB is in combat with another person npcs will still see them through invisibility to avoid the fact they can run away and use them as a wall every time. But I'm open to ideas. Let's be constructive here.
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Yonkit✭✭✭✭✭Detect Potions, AoEs, Flare, Caltrops, Piercing Mark, Radiant Magelight.
It's your own fault for not using these counters to Cloak, it's not a build issue, because he obviously couldn't kill you, just need Detect Potions or another counter to finish him off when he runs away.Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.11 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't really need cloak to be nerfed in it's direct combat effectiveness, but I'd be okay with it not being able to deaggro boss mobs onto enemy players. The mobs should just reset.
Edited by timidobserver on September 19, 2015 2:04AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)6 -
rordogg✭✭✭Alright so I'm a Stam tank DK that uses 2H and 1H&shield. I can't really afford to equip another magicka skill and caltrops is expensive as hell. This build is effective against any type of player even NBs. Unless they are cloak spammers. So what your telling me is I need to alter and effectively gimp myself to deal with the select few who are determined to spam cloak to avoid damage where as I don't have to do anything like this for any other class?5
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rordogg✭✭✭I don't have an issue with cloak. I can deal with cloak. I have an issue with being able to continually spam it. Just like dodge rolling, bolting, and shield stacking. When combat turns into spamming only one skill to constantly avoid damage something is wrong.3
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Speely✭✭✭✭Alright so I'm a Stam tank DK that uses 2H and 1H&shield. I can't really afford to equip another magicka skill and caltrops is expensive as hell. This build is effective against any type of player even NBs. Unless they are cloak spammers. So what your telling me is I need to alter and effectively gimp myself to deal with the select few who are determined to spam cloak to avoid damage where as I don't have to do anything like this for any other class?
Yes. Build diversity means that every build will not be great against every other build. The fact that you can hold your own against so many builds but have a problem with ONE type means that you are already winning. Do you really want a game where there is a build that can dominate anything? Dynamics. You have a (slight) Achilles Heel. You SHOULD.
If you don't like the options available that absolutely exist to deal with that specific enemy type, then that's your choice. It's a social MMORPG. There are supposed to be varying levels of effectiveness between individual build types. If there weren't, we would have a far bigger problem than you getting annoyed by kiting NBs.Edited by Speely on September 19, 2015 2:53AM11 -
BalisanSoul ShrivenAlright so I'm a Stam tank DK that uses 2H and 1H&shield. I can't really afford to equip another magicka skill and caltrops is expensive as hell. This build is effective against any type of player even NBs. Unless they are cloak spammers. So what your telling me is I need to alter and effectively gimp myself to deal with the select few who are determined to spam cloak to avoid damage where as I don't have to do anything like this for any other class?
Many people have resorted to giving up entire set bonuses to be able to deal with the select few players that stack wards. Sacrificing one strength for another is a part of game balance. You will have to sacrifice something to be able to deal with cloak spammers.
Wards don't have many counters, mainly just the shieldbreaker set or ridiculously overbearing amounts of burst damage.
Shadow Cloak is countered by almost every AoE ability, on top of several different abilities that specifically counter stealth, and even a potion. You'll find a way.Imperial Nightblade, V5
Dual Wielding and Archery
Bal-Busters
Daggerfall Covenant
I aim beyond the level of "glass cannon." I aim to be more like a shaped charge made out of some C4 and a wet piece of rice paper.4 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭Alright so I'm a Stam tank DK that uses 2H and 1H&shield. I can't really afford to equip another magicka skill and caltrops is expensive as hell. This build is effective against any type of player even NBs. Unless they are cloak spammers. So what your telling me is I need to alter and effectively gimp myself to deal with the select few who are determined to spam cloak to avoid damage where as I don't have to do anything like this for any other class?
Yes. Build diversity means that every build will not be great against every other build. The fact that you can hold your own against so many builds but have a problem with ONE type means that you are already winning. Do you really want a game where there is a build that can dominate anything? Dynamics. You have a (slight) Achilles Heel. You SHOULD.
If you don't like the options available that absolutely exist to deal with that specific enemy type, then that's your choice. It's a social MMORPG. There are supposed to be varying levels of effectiveness between individual build types. If there weren't, we would have a far bigger problem than you getting annoyed by kiting NBs.
Agreed, This patch made it really hard to make a build that can do everything, even my magicka NB is amazing vs all classes BUT I struggle fighting a good sorc.2 -
rordogg✭✭✭Alright. I guess I can accept this. it's not that I necessarily was in risk of getting killed by him anyways as he had to keep running. But what about dragging those bosses lol.1
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Yonkit✭✭✭✭✭Alright. I guess I can accept this. it's not that I necessarily was in risk of getting killed by him anyways as he had to keep running. But what about dragging those bosses lol.
Any class can drag a boss if they have an invis potion, I do it on my DK all the time, don't even need an invis potion either, if you aggro the boss but don't damage it, the second someone damages it, they'll immediately draw aggro, accidentally or not.Has an Alter Ego in the form of a very large quadrupedal black & white Bear.1 -
timidobserver wrote: »I don't really need cloak to be nerfed in it's direct combat effectiveness, but I'd be okay with it not being able to deaggro boss mobs onto enemy players. The mobs should just reset.
Yeah I too think this should be changed regarding invisibility.
Nightblade - Haderus AD2 -
Aunatar✭✭✭Alright so I'm a Stam tank DK that uses 2H and 1H&shield. I can't really afford to equip another magicka skill and caltrops is expensive as hell. This build is effective against any type of player even NBs. Unless they are cloak spammers. So what your telling me is I need to alter and effectively gimp myself to deal with the select few who are determined to spam cloak to avoid damage where as I don't have to do anything like this for any other class?
Many people have resorted to giving up entire set bonuses to be able to deal with the select few players that stack wards. Sacrificing one strength for another is a part of game balance. You will have to sacrifice something to be able to deal with cloak spammers.
Wards don't have many counters, mainly just the shieldbreaker set or ridiculously overbearing amounts of burst damage.
Shadow Cloak is countered by almost every AoE ability, on top of several different abilities that specifically counter stealth, and even a potion. You'll find a way.
A 5 piece set..... that gives awkward bonus like stam regen, max stam, weapon dmg as the first 4 traits... but yeah, you sacrifice 5 slots!@Aunatar
V16 Sorcerer - Aunatar
V16 DK - Aunatarans (Currently main)
V16 DK - Aunatar Evereth
V16 DK - Aunataran
V16 NB - Aunatars
V4 Templar - Lysindel
Lvl 30 NB - Vile Aunataroni De Pipino
Free spot, looking for suggestions0 -
A 5 piece set..... that gives awkward bonus like stam regen, max stam, weapon dmg as the first 4 traits... but yeah, you sacrifice 5 slots!
Well, you know, you could have things like no movement speed penalty when sneaking or massive increase in weapon damage (allowing you to enchant jewelry with even more stamina regen if you wish) instead. It's a pretty big sacrifice. If the 2, 3 and 4pc bonuses were stupid, it would be too much of a sacrifice to use shield breaker.
Nightblade - Haderus AD0 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dont even take serious people who say use aoe in IC. Pots and that flare in alliance war skill line is your best bet. In fact, that flare is really good.
And I agree cloak should get same treatment as bolt escapeEdited by Soris on September 19, 2015 9:06AMWelkynd [Templar/AD/EU]2 -
rordogg✭✭✭Yeah I've used flare before. But being a completely stamina focused heavy armor user. I can't afford to use it or it completely destroys the synergys of my bars. Same deal with caltrops which I actually like, but it's too costly.. I'd rather fight the NB with my single target attacks and I honestly do fine. Except the ones that spam cloak. And yeah everyone is saying flare or aoes. But unless I use flare he's just gonna step out and go right back into stealth lol.Edited by rordogg on September 19, 2015 9:44AM2
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Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭One of the morphs does like 10k damage over time and prevents them going in cloak for 8 seconds once you uncover them. Use thatWelkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0 -
rordogg✭✭✭I still don't see why it is wrong to ask for some sort of limitation on it like bolt escape and dodge roll. like yes it should be allowed to be used in a fight. i'm ok with even fairly frequently. but too consistently stay in stealth with it while in combat seems like too much to me. My own build has even taken quiet a hit in this patch with blocking and healing. Yet they can still spam cloak to keep from being damaged. Just seems broke to me. And I guarantee everyones gonna start doing it soon and it's gonna become an issue everyone starts seeing.
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eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dont even take serious people who say use aoe in IC. Pots and that flare in alliance war skill line is your best bet. In fact, that flare is really good.
And I agree cloak should get same treatment as bolt escape
Yes, normal AoE sucks in IC. You end up aggro'ing 6+ NPC's, but still cant get the NB. Then he jumps you from behind while you're trying to survive all the mobs of course.
Flare with the 8 second stealth prevention is good and combined with detect potion. However, many players in IC haven't unlocked Flare yet. You need Assault level 7. Doubt they even have Caltroops unlocked. Guessing that's why we keep seeing these posts pop up like every single day.
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Wolfchild07✭✭✭✭✭It lasts...2.5 secs? So, you HAVE to spam it. I would agree if it was more like 5-6 secs.2 -
rordogg✭✭✭It lasts 2.5 seconds because it was never intended to be perma stealth. Your supposed to be using other skills not attack>stealth>attack>stealth>stealth. This patch was supposed to be all about making combat more interesting. Using stealth like every other skill or spamming it is not interesting combat.3
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rordogg✭✭✭And the more I think about it most other mmos don't even allow for stealth to be used like that. It's for opening up in combat not so much for in combat. Which is how it should be here. But everyone seems to think it should be a fighting style of its own and that we need to carry special skills just for it. Yet every other class you can go up against with a basic skill set. That's garbage. Everyone should have a fairly equal chance of going against any other class with a basic load out. The person who is better at playing should win. Not the person who spams stealth because the other player didn't carry a specific skill or potion to constantly keep them out.0
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rordogg✭✭✭Here's another idea. Hell I wouldn't even care about adding some sort of limiting cooldown for this either. Just make it so a player in cloak has the same detectability as someone in sneak. That way if a nb really does want to enter stealth while in combat he needs to get a decent amount away from the player or behind. instead of constantly disappearing right in front of your face.0
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Levo18✭✭✭✭NBs have no shield no decent self heal NOTHING except cloak. If cloak gets nerfed in anyway NBs will be totally useless0 -
Ganj✭✭✭Im mainly sorcerer but i dont think stam nb needs any kind of nerf at the moment. Since beta ive never seen all the races so balanced like this. I have been playing sorc, nb and templar so far. Yes there are some issues of course but i dont think that nb needs any kind of nerf at the moment. There are so many ways to counter that cloak as many of the players mentioned here.2 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
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Why? Templar lost a shield and aoe blind already.Lava_Croft wrote: »Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0