I don't agree that stamina builds can ignore other stats -- many can't.

I also don't agree that magicka builds are required to invest in stamina.

Stamina skills are still underwhelming -- magicka users have a monopoly on 2 weapon skill trees and the majority of class abilities, including all of the strong AoE abilities (proxy det in particular). Magicka users also have the ability to reserve their stamina pool explicitly for blocking dodging etc.

Stamina users also lost the ability to roll dodge in excess, and block with regen.

I think that the changes leveled the playing field a bit between the two, but you might be looking at things with tinted glasses - the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

imho the only problem are extremely good magicka dumps that don't scale with magicka:
fear, fossilize, dark cloak, igneous shield, pruifying ritual, crit surge, (blazing shield for what it's worth), etc ...

those make stamina build extremely strong and the extend to which you can use these skills scales with magicka regen (a resoruce magicka build don't directly have an advatage in (okay, light armor has)) - and not with the magicka pool.

On the other hand, there are very few stamina skills taht don't scale with the pool and are thus used by magicka builds (shuffle, shield-charge and maybe immovable and stampede (for templars looking for the slow) are the only ones that come to mind right now). Mind that both charge skills also miss out on a lot of damage when used by magicka builds.

Thus, stamina builds can use some of the best magicka utility spells just as effectively as magicka builds can. Once you have access to those skills, it's all about selfheal (where the gap is much smaller now) and damage - where stamina abilities are just ahead in typical pvp where you cannot expect to get the power of a dk-dot rotation and sorc's lightning field. Wrecking blow, surprise attack, jabs for signle target and the almighty steel tornado for AoE have very little contenders.

That being said, magicka still has the best synergy in small groups. talons, ash cloud, Breath of Life, Streak (and maybe a stamina NB for damage...) are better than anything stamina offers. It's mostly solo and zergball (just because of steel tornado) PvP, where stamina builds currently may have an edge (and not even there for all classes, in my personal opinion).

Lava_Croft wrote: »

As expected, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

When ESO launched in March last year, it was horribly skewed in favor of Magicka builds. Everyone who wanted to run a Stamina build was forced to invest quite a bit into Magicka, since just about every useful skill was Magicka based. There was no way around it for Stamina builds. Magicka builds could all but ignore any investment into Stamina. This was a bad situation that took way too long to rectify, but eventually got rectified with the introduction of Update 6 and further cemented in Update 7.

Fast forward to the present day and we are back where we started, only this time it's the Magicka builds who are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina, while the Stamina builds can all but ignore any investments into Magicka. This situation is just as bad as the one at launch, yet there does not seem to be an awful lot of noise being made about it.


@ZOS_RichLambert:
Please do something about the fact that a Stamina build can invest all his resources into Stamina while ignoring any investments into Magicka, while Magicka users are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina. The days of 'Magicka has utility while Stamina has damage' are behind us. Stamina users have some great heals, great utility and the best damage in the game.

Just to be clear: In no way do I want to return to the days of 'Magicka OP', but I certainly don't want to stay in these times of 'Stamina OP'.

Thoughts?

i have both mag and stam builds. my stam have to invest into some form of magicka but my mag doesnt have to do any stam atall. So this post isnt factually correct

In my opinion my magicka NB has been nerfed into the ground I could cope with 1vX easily but now I struggle 1v1. I lost a quarter of my spell damage due to armour set buff nerfs. My healing ward now heals me for 4k (LOL) so I may as well lose my resto staff.

I almost have no option but to change my whole build. Granted I haven't looked into the new armour sets to see if there are any that can get me back up to the spell damage I was at. All in all I'm very disappointed with the update apart from the few bug fixes.

90% of the guilds I am in are disappointed too.

Gank city was a huge disappointment, I had much more enjoyment from normal PVP.

The meta switched in 1.6, so they tried to bring it inline by buffing light armor mitigation, but then they screwed block and dodge roll so that kinda ruined any chance of that. Not to mention it is still easy to penetrate light armor. In addition to that if you don't have a nuke in your class line you can get it only through the physical weapon lines, snipe and WB.

Ezareth wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

As expected, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

When ESO launched in March last year, it was horribly skewed in favor of Magicka builds. Everyone who wanted to run a Stamina build was forced to invest quite a bit into Magicka, since just about every useful skill was Magicka based. There was no way around it for Stamina builds. Magicka builds could all but ignore any investment into Stamina. This was a bad situation that took way too long to rectify, but eventually got rectified with the introduction of Update 6 and further cemented in Update 7.

Fast forward to the present day and we are back where we started, only this time it's the Magicka builds who are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina, while the Stamina builds can all but ignore any investments into Magicka. This situation is just as bad as the one at launch, yet there does not seem to be an awful lot of noise being made about it.


@ZOS_RichLambert:
Please do something about the fact that a Stamina build can invest all his resources into Stamina while ignoring any investments into Magicka, while Magicka users are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina. The days of 'Magicka has utility while Stamina has damage' are behind us. Stamina users have some great heals, great utility and the best damage in the game.

Just to be clear: In no way do I want to return to the days of 'Magicka OP', but I certainly don't want to stay in these times of 'Stamina OP'.

Thoughts?

I don't agree with this. Why would magicka builds invest in Stamina? ZoS has made blocking and dodge rolling even less useful, especially for magicka builds and the only thing you need stam for then is breaking free every 8 seconds, something easy to accomplish for any magicka build without any real cost.

Ezareth wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

As expected, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

When ESO launched in March last year, it was horribly skewed in favor of Magicka builds. Everyone who wanted to run a Stamina build was forced to invest quite a bit into Magicka, since just about every useful skill was Magicka based. There was no way around it for Stamina builds. Magicka builds could all but ignore any investment into Stamina. This was a bad situation that took way too long to rectify, but eventually got rectified with the introduction of Update 6 and further cemented in Update 7.

Fast forward to the present day and we are back where we started, only this time it's the Magicka builds who are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina, while the Stamina builds can all but ignore any investments into Magicka. This situation is just as bad as the one at launch, yet there does not seem to be an awful lot of noise being made about it.


@ZOS_RichLambert:
Please do something about the fact that a Stamina build can invest all his resources into Stamina while ignoring any investments into Magicka, while Magicka users are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina. The days of 'Magicka has utility while Stamina has damage' are behind us. Stamina users have some great heals, great utility and the best damage in the game.

Just to be clear: In no way do I want to return to the days of 'Magicka OP', but I certainly don't want to stay in these times of 'Stamina OP'.

Thoughts?

I don't agree with this. Why would magicka builds invest in Stamina? ZoS has made blocking and dodge rolling even less useful, especially for magicka builds and the only thing you need stam for then is breaking free every 8 seconds, something easy to accomplish for any magicka build without any real cost.

So as a magicka build are you mean't to just stand there and take the wb/snipe spam?

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

As expected, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

When ESO launched in March last year, it was horribly skewed in favor of Magicka builds. Everyone who wanted to run a Stamina build was forced to invest quite a bit into Magicka, since just about every useful skill was Magicka based. There was no way around it for Stamina builds. Magicka builds could all but ignore any investment into Stamina. This was a bad situation that took way too long to rectify, but eventually got rectified with the introduction of Update 6 and further cemented in Update 7.

Fast forward to the present day and we are back where we started, only this time it's the Magicka builds who are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina, while the Stamina builds can all but ignore any investments into Magicka. This situation is just as bad as the one at launch, yet there does not seem to be an awful lot of noise being made about it.


@ZOS_RichLambert:
Please do something about the fact that a Stamina build can invest all his resources into Stamina while ignoring any investments into Magicka, while Magicka users are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina. The days of 'Magicka has utility while Stamina has damage' are behind us. Stamina users have some great heals, great utility and the best damage in the game.

Just to be clear: In no way do I want to return to the days of 'Magicka OP', but I certainly don't want to stay in these times of 'Stamina OP'.

Thoughts?

I don't agree with this. Why would magicka builds invest in Stamina? ZoS has made blocking and dodge rolling even less useful, especially for magicka builds and the only thing you need stam for then is breaking free every 8 seconds, something easy to accomplish for any magicka build without any real cost.

Ezareth wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

As expected, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

When ESO launched in March last year, it was horribly skewed in favor of Magicka builds. Everyone who wanted to run a Stamina build was forced to invest quite a bit into Magicka, since just about every useful skill was Magicka based. There was no way around it for Stamina builds. Magicka builds could all but ignore any investment into Stamina. This was a bad situation that took way too long to rectify, but eventually got rectified with the introduction of Update 6 and further cemented in Update 7.

Fast forward to the present day and we are back where we started, only this time it's the Magicka builds who are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina, while the Stamina builds can all but ignore any investments into Magicka. This situation is just as bad as the one at launch, yet there does not seem to be an awful lot of noise being made about it.


@ZOS_RichLambert:
Please do something about the fact that a Stamina build can invest all his resources into Stamina while ignoring any investments into Magicka, while Magicka users are forced to invest quite a bit into Stamina. The days of 'Magicka has utility while Stamina has damage' are behind us. Stamina users have some great heals, great utility and the best damage in the game.

Just to be clear: In no way do I want to return to the days of 'Magicka OP', but I certainly don't want to stay in these times of 'Stamina OP'.

Thoughts?

I don't agree with this. Why would magicka builds invest in Stamina? ZoS has made blocking and dodge rolling even less useful, especially for magicka builds and the only thing you need stam for then is breaking free every 8 seconds, something easy to accomplish for any magicka build without any real cost.

So as a magicka build are you mean't to just stand there and take the wb/snipe spam?

As counterintuitive as that sounds yes, at least that is how ZoS is designing combat. Or depending on your build and class you mitigate it in other ways. LoS, damage shield, running through your enemy etc.

Blocking and dodge rolling almost never makes sense unless you have some other source of stamina like a repentence ready to go.

If you actually plan on using abilties that cost magicka as stamina build, you can't ignore magicka.

In other words, if you do nothing but stack stamina as a stamina build and ignore magicka regen/reduction or even some points or enchants into magicka... well, your future as a steel tornado bot in a pain train is bright. Anywhere else that same setup isn't very effective.