Shield Breaker - AKA "I win button"
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R0M2K✭✭✭✭Sorcs complaining about a set but no one saying anything about Shields not being able to be crit or doted.. Also shield stacking.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorcs complaining about a set but no one saying anything about Shields not being able to be crit or doted.. Also shield stacking.
Shields also have no mitigation - you also always do unmitigated cap dmg on them. If you factor in that even for sorcs physical and spell mitigation are aroun 20 to 25% now when utilizing one or two heavy armor pieces this is quite a thing. Also shields can not be crit casted (50% stronger shields) unlike heals - so crits are a nonfactor for both sides.
There are a few dots not working on shields while others do:
Every primary dot effect is working. Most secondary magica dots are working. Strangely enough destructive touch is not. Bleeds and physical dots are not supposed to work as stated by zenimax (which is bullsh*t).
I really think all dots should work on shields.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »The complaints by sorcs here is honestly "omg I absorbed that 9k wrecking blow hit, but I still took 2.1k damage from shield breaker... What ***!!!"
The NB cloaked to avoid 9k hits, the Templar heals himself after 9k hits and the DK reflects 9k projectiles right back at you.
What is the difference?
The difference is that everything you listed already has a counter.0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, I do dislike shield breaker overall it can be annoying >.<
but personally I dont see shieldbreaker as the issue but more so healing nerfs making it hard to out sustain the damage.
but thats mainly a 1vX issue
And you´re playing a nightblade which does have better selfhealing options (or lets say more reliable) than sorcerers. As a sorc you now need resto staff + 2 heals or bust.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
imasnowchainub17_ESOSoul ShrivenSeptimus_Magna wrote: »The complaints by sorcs here is honestly "omg I absorbed that 9k wrecking blow hit, but I still took 2.1k damage from shield breaker... What ***!!!"
The NB cloaked to avoid 9k hits, the Templar heals himself after 9k hits and the DK reflects 9k projectiles right back at you.
What is the difference? Every class has ways to mitigate damage but the shield breaker set is the only one specifically designed to punish sorcs for using their defensive skill.
Its fine to make a counter to shield when sorcs have a different way to mitigate damage, a decent sorc class heal would be a start.
Cloak can be countered, the heals happen after you nearly died (or mostly likely just did die), and the reflect doesn't work on all abilities. Yet your shields are the opposite of all 3 of these weaknesses. They are preemptive, uncounterable beside shieldbreaker, and work against all damage types. Can you honestly not see the problem here? Your shields were so overpowered that all classes shields got hit by the nerf bomb aimed towards you and are still a problem when their isnt a shield breaker user to spam you with those terrifying 2k hits. Maybe you should start stacking other defensive options to protect that cannon of glass you've hidden under a shield for the past 6 months.1 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »The complaints by sorcs here is honestly "omg I absorbed that 9k wrecking blow hit, but I still took 2.1k damage from shield breaker... What ***!!!"
The NB cloaked to avoid 9k hits, the Templar heals himself after 9k hits and the DK reflects 9k projectiles right back at you.
What is the difference?
The difference is that everything you listed already has a counter.
Shields also have a counter, CC and (physical) burst damage. There are no sets to punish reflects, heals or cloak in such a way shield breaker does to shields.
PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »The complaints by sorcs here is honestly "omg I absorbed that 9k wrecking blow hit, but I still took 2.1k damage from shield breaker... What ***!!!"
The NB cloaked to avoid 9k hits, the Templar heals himself after 9k hits and the DK reflects 9k projectiles right back at you.
What is the difference?
The difference is that everything you listed already has a counter.
Shields also have a counter, CC and (physical) burst damage. There are no sets to punish reflects, heals or cloak in such a way shield breaker does to shields.
Neither of the things you listed counter shields.
Reflects is punished by reflect, and spells that aren't reflectable
Cloak has 3 spells that counter it, and a potion.. And possibly a set (don't know if sentry works)
Heals are flat out counters by healing debuffs, you have two sets with that alone that have heal debuffs (crest and duroks) not to mention abilities
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
R0M2K✭✭✭✭Sorcs complaining about a set but no one saying anything about Shields not being able to be crit or doted.. Also shield stacking.
Shields also have no mitigation - you also always do unmitigated cap dmg on them. If you factor in that even for sorcs physical and spell mitigation are aroun 20 to 25% now when utilizing one or two heavy armor pieces this is quite a thing. Also shields can not be crit casted (50% stronger shields) unlike heals - so crits are a nonfactor for both sides.
There are a few dots not working on shields while others do:
Every primary dot effect is working. Most secondary magica dots are working. Strangely enough destructive touch is not. Bleeds and physical dots are not supposed to work as stated by zenimax (which is bullsh*t).
I really think all dots should work on shields.
Shields by definition ARE the mitigation itself, making them to benefit from you character armor/spell res would be redundant & idiotic.0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭the set needs it dmg transitioned from the health pool to the shield pool and everything is fine.
in an attampt to fix the "shieldstacking" wich is *** in case of physical attacks anyway as no sorc i know of uses boneshield...
the first step should to allow all dots to affect shields in cluding bleeds, poisem, deseas etc.
if it would still be needed in a second step the 30% incresement of hardend ward could be turned into a direct heal healing 30% of the shield value (would be comparable to a GDB heal at ~60%).Edited by Tankqull on September 15, 2015 9:02AMspelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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And what counters Shield Breaker light attack spam?Neither of the things you listed counter shields
Instead of fixing shield spamming, ZOS created an even worse source of spamming.
Shield spam is just passive, taking away nothing from the opponent.
Shield Breaker spam is much worse, because it cripples various skills from different classes.
If shield spam is a problem, ZOS could handle it as dodge roll spam, with increasing costs.
Instead they introduced an even worse spamming tool, damaging game balance even more.Edited by BalticBlues on September 15, 2015 9:19AM3 -
contact.opiumb16_ESO✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
And what counters Shield Breaker light attack spam?Neither of the things you listed counter shields
Instead of fixing shield spamming, ZOS created an even worse source of spamming.
Shield spam is just passive, taking away nothing from the opponent.
Shield Breaker spam is much worse, because it cripples various skills from different classes.
If shield spam is a problem, ZOS could handle it as dodge roll spam, with increasing costs.
Instead they introduced an even worse spamming tool, damaging game balance even more.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/215648/a-smart-and-fair-solution-for-shield-stacking-and-shield-breaker-set-changes#latest
Here is my solution to fix both shield stacking and shield breaker.0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Septimus_Magna wrote: »The complaints by sorcs here is honestly "omg I absorbed that 9k wrecking blow hit, but I still took 2.1k damage from shield breaker... What ***!!!"
The NB cloaked to avoid 9k hits, the Templar heals himself after 9k hits and the DK reflects 9k projectiles right back at you.
What is the difference?
The difference is that everything you listed already has a counter.
Shields also have a counter, CC and (physical) burst damage. There are no sets to punish reflects, heals or cloak in such a way shield breaker does to shields.
Neither of the things you listed counter shields.
Reflects is punished by reflect, and spells that aren't reflectable
Cloak has 3 spells that counter it, and a potion.. And possibly a set (don't know if sentry works)
Heals are flat out counters by healing debuffs, you have two sets with that alone that have heal debuffs (crest and duroks) not to mention abilities
Reflects are restricted to DKs and S&B users.
Mark to counter cloak is restricted to NBs. Radiant Mage Light takes up 2 skill slots without having an active effect to use in combat which is a huge penalty. Detect pots have a 30 second cool down but its the best counter to cloak for most builds.
Healing debuffs can be purged, Crest and Duroks are restricted to heavy armor builds which is not the first pick for damage builds and its most likely designed to make up for the loss in damage for wearing heavy instead of light/medium.
Shield breaker is available to all stam builds with good 2-4pc boni, you can use the same weapons, slot the same skills, use your preferred potions and have the same CP allocation.
All of the other counters dont have these luxuries which makes them more balanced so they are very different imho.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer2 -
Ganj✭✭✭Shield Breaker is not op or anything. It is powerful but that doesnt mean you cant kill a shield breaker user with your sorc. I have nb and sorc so im trying to be objective. It is just skill matchup, both can be killed.2 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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Would you then also agree to a "Cloak Breaker" set as a "skill matchup"?Shield Breaker is not op [...] it is just skill matchup.
Background:
People do not like having to collect herbs for NB detection potions (time sacrifice).
People also do not like having to waste two slots for radiant magelight (slot sacrifice).
An easy-to-use Cloak Breaker set finally could bring a "skill matchup"...
Or perhaps ... the devs better dump all such terrible, skill/game breaking sets. Please.Edited by BalticBlues on September 15, 2015 12:41PM1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
Would you then also agree to a "Cloak Breaker" set as a "skill matchup"?Shield Breaker is not op [...] it is just skill matchup.
Background:
People do not like having to collect herbs for NB detection potions (time sacrifice).
People also do not like having to waste two slots for radiant magelight (slot sacrifice).
An easy-to-use Cloak Breaker set finally could bring them a "skill matchup".
Or perhaps, all these terrible, game breaking sets rather should be removed from the game?
Myself, i would gladly collect herbs for a potion that would allow me to ignore enemy shields for 15 seconds.Edited by Sharee on September 15, 2015 12:53PM1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
Would you then also agree to a "Cloak Breaker" set as a "skill matchup"?Shield Breaker is not op [...] it is just skill matchup.
Background:
People do not like having to collect herbs for NB detection potions (time sacrifice).
People also do not like having to waste two slots for radiant magelight (slot sacrifice).
An easy-to-use Cloak Breaker set finally could bring them a "skill matchup".
Or perhaps, all these terrible, game breaking sets rather should be removed from the game?
Have no fear, ZOS is here and with them are (likely) more sets like this. Least, I expect as much.0 -
contact.opiumb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Btw, Shield Breaker shall be renamed Shield Bypasser, it do not break shields, as its name suggest.0
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The set is trash.
I had a wait and see attitude. Now that I saw it, it's ridiculous.
To all you NBs who cry, whine, complain, qq, gripe, moan, and carp about detect pots, there is one significant difference: potions don't not do any damage and you do not have to reconstruct your entire build to specifically fight someone who uses them. The main thing detect pots do is force you to fight fair for 15 seconds, something your class is perfectly capable of doing.
Many of you always said, "well how would sorcerers like it is a potion nullified bolt escape"? I'd prefer that very much to this trash set. Go ahead and waste your pot to prevent me from bolt escaping for 15 seconds. I'll be more than happy to stick around and fight you provided you gear something that actually requires a modicum of skill to defeat a shielded opponent.Edited by Joy_Division on September 15, 2015 2:33PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »Whenever I am on my character which has this set,
I am RARELY finding shield stackers who don't immediately stop spamming shields.
Shields now are causing unresistable damage instead of protection, making them not only useless but dangerous
That's nonsense. If you didn't use that shield, you'd be taking far more damage, even from someone using shieldbreaker.
Against someone with shieldbreaker, shields are still useful, because he can only hit you for 2K damage per hit, instead of 5K-8K damage per hit. You just aren't completely untouchable anymore.
That is incorrect. You can't compare unresistable to resistable on the same ground. Not saying anything about the set... but the unresistable part makes a big difference. I wish my unresistable weapons proc'd every time I hit...
You are giving the 'unresistable' too much credit.
Yes, it is unresistable. But it is also 4x weaker than the 'resistable' damage. In the end, normal, resistable damage will still do more harm even after being resisted.
That doesn't make sense. Usually, unresistable damage is lower because it's the strongest form of damage existant - that still means when it's as much damage as another source, the unresistable damage source will deal more damage in the end.
But it is not as much damage as another source, that's the point.
Shieldbreaker damage is unmitigated, but limited to 2K. Other skills may be mitigated, but they are not limited to 2K damage, they are much more damaging, so much that even after being reduced by mitigation, they still hit for more than the 2K shieldbreaker can do. Thus, they are more harmful in the end.
No, they aren't. When you remove spell and physical resistance you're taking more than what you can mitigate
When you remove all resistance against a 2K hit, you will still take less damage from that than you would from a 10K hit that is 50% mitigated.
That 10k hit takes more time that a LA. So you're still not comparing apples to apples. Look at my later post.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror1 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »The set is trash.
I had a wait and see attitude. Now that I saw it, it's ridiculous.
To all you NBs who cry, whine, complain, qq, gripe, moan, and carp about detect pots, there is one significant difference: potions don't not do any damage and you do not have to reconstruct your entire build to specifically fight someone who uses them. The main thing detect pots do is force you to fight fair for 15 seconds, something your class is perfectly capable of doing.
Many of you always said, "well how would sorcerers like it is a potion nullified bolt escape"? I'd prefer that very much to this trash set. Go ahead and waste your pot to prevent me from bolt escaping for 15 seconds. I'll be more than happy to stick around and fight you provided you gear something that actually requires a modicum of skill to defeat a shielded opponent.
Detect pots were broken in many other ways, which caused a lot of QQ from Nightblade. A properly built Sorc could effortlessly shutdown any Nightblade with one detect pot and meteor. High damage and penetration bugs made that an unavoidable one-two punch, and if you somehow survive that you still had a hopeless fight against shields and streak.
I don't think any reasonable Nightblade disliked the concept of detect pots, we just hated some of the ways they were bugged. I also don't think many Nightblades wanted to resort to a cheesy medium armor set like shield-breaker, that's on ZOS.
Edited by OdinForge on September 15, 2015 3:08PMThe Age of Wrobel.0 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »The set is trash.
I had a wait and see attitude. Now that I saw it, it's ridiculous.
To all you NBs who cry, whine, complain, qq, gripe, moan, and carp about detect pots, there is one significant difference: potions don't not do any damage and you do not have to reconstruct your entire build to specifically fight someone who uses them. The main thing detect pots do is force you to fight fair for 15 seconds, something your class is perfectly capable of doing.
Many of you always said, "well how would sorcerers like it is a potion nullified bolt escape"? I'd prefer that very much to this trash set. Go ahead and waste your pot to prevent me from bolt escaping for 15 seconds. I'll be more than happy to stick around and fight you provided you gear something that actually requires a modicum of skill to defeat a shielded opponent.
And everyone told to every NB to L2P because a good NB can survive against a 43 sec pots easily and other BS like that,for the "fair" fight... now use stealth is not fair,then shield against me is not fair same for heal etc.
Shieldtacking is too strong,this set is not the best idea from ZoS but say thing like "CC the sorc and kill" is a stupid argument
CC and kill the Nb before can cloak away
CC and kill the templar before can heal
this set with melee weapon is alredy fine,and i don't see any skill from you sorcerer player who spam shield everyday to negate dmg.
Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on September 15, 2015 3:26PM2 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The presence of Shield Breaker basically turned every single shield in this game into a lottery.
The ZOSolution is already slowly being integrated into the game: Passive damage mitigation! No more spamming of skills, no more skills required at all.n.milseb16_ESO wrote: »Stop boring gameplay
Stop spaming shields
= Problem fixed
This shield stack problem needs a solution. Maybe this set isnt the best, but it is one.
Couldn be true, that Light armor players are the hardest in the game, because of spaming shields.
Being unbreakable because of shild stacking is fail... So when this armor set makes the people stop it... then i like it
And to all these shield spammers who are crying now: You deserve this set!
How many videos, how many comments, in wich you were laughing about other players while you didt get any damage!
Now its time to die, shielded sorc, hahaha, damn this makes me happy, think im gonna get this set too! Learn to play without beeing unbreakable! Welcome to pvp!
Stop boring gameplay
Stop blocking
Stop boring gameplay
Stop spaming shields
Stop boring gameplay
Stop spaming cloak
Shall we continue here?
Also great job presenting one of the biggest reasons I disapprove of this set and some of ZOS's other choices lately.
Game fixed!
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CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »The presence of Shield Breaker basically turned every single shield in this game into a lottery.
The ZOSolution is already slowly being integrated into the game: Passive damage mitigation! No more spamming of skills, no more skills required at all.n.milseb16_ESO wrote: »Stop boring gameplay
Stop spaming shields
= Problem fixed
This shield stack problem needs a solution. Maybe this set isnt the best, but it is one.
Couldn be true, that Light armor players are the hardest in the game, because of spaming shields.
Being unbreakable because of shild stacking is fail... So when this armor set makes the people stop it... then i like it
And to all these shield spammers who are crying now: You deserve this set!
How many videos, how many comments, in wich you were laughing about other players while you didt get any damage!
Now its time to die, shielded sorc, hahaha, damn this makes me happy, think im gonna get this set too! Learn to play without beeing unbreakable! Welcome to pvp!
Stop boring gameplay
Stop blocking
Stop boring gameplay
Stop spaming shields
Stop boring gameplay
Stop spaming cloak
Shall we continue here?
Also great job presenting one of the biggest reasons I disapprove of this set and some of ZOS's other choices lately.
Game fixed!
If it's a problem, there's a set for that. Guessing we will see cloak breaker or heal breaker, or some other quick set designed to 'utilize itemization to address balance issues' in the future. Who needs skills and interactions when you can wear the latest in ZOS fashion.0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, I do dislike shield breaker overall it can be annoying >.<
but personally I dont see shieldbreaker as the issue but more so healing nerfs making it hard to out sustain the damage.
but thats mainly a 1vX issue
And you´re playing a nightblade which does have better selfhealing options (or lets say more reliable) than sorcerers. As a sorc you now need resto staff + 2 heals or bust.
Just like the rest of us. Or a 2h hander.1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »The set is trash.
I had a wait and see attitude. Now that I saw it, it's ridiculous.
To all you NBs who cry, whine, complain, qq, gripe, moan, and carp about detect pots, there is one significant difference: potions don't not do any damage and you do not have to reconstruct your entire build to specifically fight someone who uses them. The main thing detect pots do is force you to fight fair for 15 seconds, something your class is perfectly capable of doing.
Many of you always said, "well how would sorcerers like it is a potion nullified bolt escape"? I'd prefer that very much to this trash set. Go ahead and waste your pot to prevent me from bolt escaping for 15 seconds. I'll be more than happy to stick around and fight you provided you gear something that actually requires a modicum of skill to defeat a shielded opponent.
And everyone told to every NB to L2P because a good NB can survive against a 43 sec pots easily and other BS like that,for the "fair" fight... now use stealth is not fair,then shield against me is not fair same for heal etc.
Shieldtacking is too strong,this set is not the best idea from ZoS but say thing like "CC the sorc and kill" is a stupid argument
CC and kill the Nb before can cloak away
CC and kill the templar before can heal
this set with melee weapon is alredy fine,and i don't see any skill from you sorcerer player who spam shield everyday to negate dmg.
No everyone did not. I said no such thing. I don't shield stack. I never said sorcs were fine bc/ you can just CC and kill them. Never. I was one of the few sorc players who admitted on this forum what we say in private channels, sorcs are ridiculously strong and should not die unless zerged or a mistake is made.
Too bad the set works with bows so it's not fine.
Edited by Joy_Division on September 16, 2015 4:18AMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.0 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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Indeed. If certain skills now can have negative results instead of positive ones,Lava_Croft wrote: »The presence of Shield Breaker basically turned every single shield in this game into a lottery
people cannot rely on their skills anymore.
This probably is the worst possible game design in a game about skills.
Yes, this is what an "I win button" set is about for the winner.Shield Breaker is a wonderful set, I'm loving it!
But for each player "loving" the set, there also is a victim, hating the set.
If ZOS wants to divide the player base and make skills worthless, the SB set does the job.
Edited by BalticBlues on September 16, 2015 5:52AM2
