I see it both ways.

On the one hand, I agree with you that it looks sleazy to wave inaccessible (by your choice) DLC in front of your face. Immersion breaking and all.

On the other hand, it's tough enough finding groups as it is, and before vet COA was added to the pledges, it was very difficult to find a group that wasn't just farming it (skipping large parts of it) for the helm. Given the difficulty of the IC dgns, it would probably be equally difficult to group up for these. As such, 'forcing it' on players in the pledges incentivizes us to create more groups and play it.

Now if they'd only add Shada's Tear and Skyreach to the pledges, I might finally find a group for those after failing to in zone calls and group tools for many months now.

GnGEmpire wrote: »

I didn't get the DLC, does that mean I can't do the daily gold pledge?

If so that is an ugly move in my opinion on ZOS's part and if they want to force an Imperial city dungeon as part of non-imperial city content, they should at least make it accessible without forcing us to get it.
I was honestly considering purchasing the imperial city over the next couple of days but this move has definitely made me back off and lose a lot of my trust in this game and its developers.

Unless they did make the dungeon accessible for all in which case please disregard the above.

Maybe just MAYBE take a second to realise ZOS is a business and not a charity service, they need to make money.
That said the people who have the DLC want to do pledges too and with the new content. No one is forcing you to get anything, you should just skip todays cycle of pledges if you don't like it.

Well, "we" asked for a F2P game, apparently. Now we get paywalls. I'd still much rather the game had remained subscription-only.

Problem is if they don't include any new dungeons in this you're going to have the vanilla game dungeons only for the rest of the games life.

Think about five years from now if it's still going and there are 60+ dungeons yet only 15ish are in the pool for the daily keys.

Enodoc wrote: »

I was assuming this was a bug, as they have stated that all Imperial City content is "optional". If it's optional, it shouldn't affect the base game at all, and this is an effect on the base game.

It's optional in the sense that the whole game is optional. You can buy the game, login, and just stare at the screen for hours for all they care.

Oh wait, you'll time out due to inactivity for that. Just chalk it up to another poor design decision by ZoS. They're game programmers after all, every meeting they have probably starts with "stop bogarting the J man, it's my turn."

Nifty2g wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

I didn't get the DLC, does that mean I can't do the daily gold pledge?

If so that is an ugly move in my opinion on ZOS's part and if they want to force an Imperial city dungeon as part of non-imperial city content, they should at least make it accessible without forcing us to get it.
I was honestly considering purchasing the imperial city over the next couple of days but this move has definitely made me back off and lose a lot of my trust in this game and its developers.

Unless they did make the dungeon accessible for all in which case please disregard the above.

Maybe just MAYBE take a second to realise ZOS is a business and not a charity service, they need to make money.
That said the people who have the DLC want to do pledges too and with the new content. No one is forcing you to get anything, you should just skip todays cycle of pledges if you don't like it.

Sorry, but daily quests should NEVER be locked out by pay content. This discourages players who can't buy the DLC from playing group content which reduces the pool of players available for all the other content. At this point we can't avoid it because having two groups searching for players for pledges would make finding good PUGs even harder. But should group finder ever be a well functioning device, there should not be a content lockout for daily quests.
They'd have to deal with weaker equipment and probably a lower level cap, but at least they'd be in-game and maybe even spend some crowns.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

I didn't get the DLC, does that mean I can't do the daily gold pledge?

If so that is an ugly move in my opinion on ZOS's part and if they want to force an Imperial city dungeon as part of non-imperial city content, they should at least make it accessible without forcing us to get it.
I was honestly considering purchasing the imperial city over the next couple of days but this move has definitely made me back off and lose a lot of my trust in this game and its developers.

Unless they did make the dungeon accessible for all in which case please disregard the above.

Maybe just MAYBE take a second to realise ZOS is a business and not a charity service, they need to make money.
That said the people who have the DLC want to do pledges too and with the new content. No one is forcing you to get anything, you should just skip todays cycle of pledges if you don't like it.

This misses his entire point. A quest that is in the base game has been put behind a paywall. We get you want to jump to ZoS defense at every given opportunity. After all, you're just thinking of those poor little dev kids that will starve to death if ZoS begin to let everyone access their premium content free of charge. No one can fault you for that. What he does have an issue with is a quest that is normally accessible to all us peasants who only purchased the base game can not be accessed due to it being behind a paywall. No idea why you're struggling to wrap your head around that.

Correct, an optional quest is technically behind a paywall, just not a very tall one.

If it was a quest required to advance, somehow, then there would be cause for concern. If the majority of the game was locked down this way, there would be cause for concern.

As it stands, a monumentally small portion of the game requires a minor $ investment for access. Most of the game is still 100% free after the initial purchase.

What the 'peasants' (your word, not mine) forget is that DLC $ will help promote the entire game's health, not just DLC.

zornyan wrote: »

Because you can skip it for a single day? You can't enjoy new content obviously without the dlc, so why should dlc buyers, you know the people keeping zos afloat and helping to support the game not be able to enjoy nee content as pledges?

I think you missed the point. The point is that the pledge quest should only be available if you've purchased the DLC, not that it shouldn't exist at all.

If you have the DLC, you should get 10 pledges in the rotation; if you don't, you should get 8. If the daily pledge for someone who owns the DLC rolls around to a DLC-required one, then it should have an alternative for those who do not.

eg:

Has DLC        Does Not Have DLC
Wayrest        Wayrest
Spindle        Spindle
WGT            CoH
Fungal         Fungal
CoA            CoA
BC             BC
CoH            CoH
Prison         Spindle
Darkshade      Darkshade
Hollow         Hollow

I'm assuming the pledges are chosen at random, and not on an exact cycle, so this should be a relatively easy thing to do.

Spottswoode wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

I didn't get the DLC, does that mean I can't do the daily gold pledge?

If so that is an ugly move in my opinion on ZOS's part and if they want to force an Imperial city dungeon as part of non-imperial city content, they should at least make it accessible without forcing us to get it.
I was honestly considering purchasing the imperial city over the next couple of days but this move has definitely made me back off and lose a lot of my trust in this game and its developers.

Unless they did make the dungeon accessible for all in which case please disregard the above.

Maybe just MAYBE take a second to realise ZOS is a business and not a charity service, they need to make money.
That said the people who have the DLC want to do pledges too and with the new content. No one is forcing you to get anything, you should just skip todays cycle of pledges if you don't like it.

This misses his entire point. A quest that is in the base game has been put behind a paywall. We get you want to jump to ZoS defense at every given opportunity. After all, you're just thinking of those poor little dev kids that will starve to death if ZoS begin to let everyone access their premium content free of charge. No one can fault you for that. What he does have an issue with is a quest that is normally accessible to all us peasants who only purchased the base game can not be accessed due to it being behind a paywall. No idea why you're struggling to wrap your head around that.

Correct, an optional quest is technically behind a paywall, just not a very tall one.

If it was a quest required to advance, somehow, then there would be cause for concern. If the majority of the game was locked down this way, there would be cause for concern.

As it stands, a monumentally small portion of the game requires a minor $ investment for access. Most of the game is still 100% free after the initial purchase.

What the 'peasants' (your word, not mine) forget is that DLC $ will help promote the entire game's health, not just DLC.

Uh...$25 USD is a pretty decently sized paywall. Considering that's half the amount of WoW expansions, that's a moderate price to overcome. We can argue that they just need to buy the subscription for a month but...

WoW also had a subscription to play during most of those expansions, so you were paying $50 + $15/month for access to that content. $230 for a years access.

You can pay $15/month here and get the DLC for "free" at $180 for a years access, or $25 for life-time access and no additional costs.

Edit*
Before people scream about the actual base sub costs/discounts this is just an example of values.

This is the standard for the new DLC model. Destiny works the same way....

Allow the ones paying the developers salaries to enjoy what they paid for and get a reward for completion. I get it.

A non DLC rotation would have been nice but today I will be busy respec'ing all 8 of my characters and setting home campaigns again anyway. So no time for Daily's today.

And doing Writs....

dlepi24 wrote: »

The game moves on without you if you don't want to buy DLC. The rest of us aren't going to wait behind because you didn't want to buy it. You expect the game to never incorporate anything new? Why would the new dungeons not be incorporated to the Undaunted Pledges?

Okay, NO ONE is arguing this. At all. We just don't want people who don't want the DLC to be forced out of daily quests. They should incorporate new content into daily quests. We just shouldn't have to buy new content to do daily quests.

Spottswoode wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

GnGEmpire wrote: »

I didn't get the DLC, does that mean I can't do the daily gold pledge?

If so that is an ugly move in my opinion on ZOS's part and if they want to force an Imperial city dungeon as part of non-imperial city content, they should at least make it accessible without forcing us to get it.
I was honestly considering purchasing the imperial city over the next couple of days but this move has definitely made me back off and lose a lot of my trust in this game and its developers.

Unless they did make the dungeon accessible for all in which case please disregard the above.

Maybe just MAYBE take a second to realise ZOS is a business and not a charity service, they need to make money.
That said the people who have the DLC want to do pledges too and with the new content. No one is forcing you to get anything, you should just skip todays cycle of pledges if you don't like it.

This misses his entire point. A quest that is in the base game has been put behind a paywall. We get you want to jump to ZoS defense at every given opportunity. After all, you're just thinking of those poor little dev kids that will starve to death if ZoS begin to let everyone access their premium content free of charge. No one can fault you for that. What he does have an issue with is a quest that is normally accessible to all us peasants who only purchased the base game can not be accessed due to it being behind a paywall. No idea why you're struggling to wrap your head around that.

Correct, an optional quest is technically behind a paywall, just not a very tall one.

If it was a quest required to advance, somehow, then there would be cause for concern. If the majority of the game was locked down this way, there would be cause for concern.

As it stands, a monumentally small portion of the game requires a minor $ investment for access. Most of the game is still 100% free after the initial purchase.

What the 'peasants' (your word, not mine) forget is that DLC $ will help promote the entire game's health, not just DLC.

Uh...$25 USD is a pretty decently sized paywall. Considering that's half the amount of WoW expansions, that's a moderate price to overcome. We can argue that they just need to buy the subscription for a month but...

@Spottswoode, it's ~$4 / month assuming they put out DLC every six months (which they have not.)

Also, don't overestimate the quantity of DLC in the DLC. It's not as vast as they'd have you believe.
@Enodoc , I think they are on a rotation. Rather than shuffling the sequence (which could put people on different pledges beyond just the DLC/non-DLC variety), they could simply offer up a random for the "DLC" days and then resume the normal cycle.

I do agree it's sloppy coding to offer up something that is inaccessible ~ this from a game that still shows bound items in your "Sell" tab of guild stores, mail dialogue, and trade dialogue, yet won't let you move them.

I suspect it's left there on purpose in case someone doesn't know there is alternate content (though not sure how that would be possible.) and to get you to eventually cave in and buy it.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

@Spottswoode, it's ~$4 / month assuming they put out DLC every six months (which they have not.)

Point awarded.

wrote:

Also, don't overestimate the quantity of DLC in the DLC. It's not as vast as they'd have you believe.

• You can clear the "Main line" quest in a couple hours if you're taking your time.
• You can explore the lower area, in its entirety, in a day.
• After that, it's gear grind, rinse, and repeat.

You're forgetting the daily quest lockouts. If this trend continues, (meaning they add more dlc's required to pledge rotation) eventually it will be about 1/4 of the rotation. Considering it's the best way to level the undaunted skill line post-vet, it's going to be a problem. One that doesn't need to exist.

Nevermind, delete pls.

Spottswoode wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Because you can skip it for a single day? You can't enjoy new content obviously without the dlc, so why should dlc buyers, you know the people keeping zos afloat and helping to support the game not be able to enjoy nee content as pledges?

I think you missed the point. The point is that the pledge quest should only be available if you've purchased the DLC, not that it shouldn't exist at all.

If you have the DLC, you should get 10 pledges in the rotation; if you don't, you should get 8. If the daily pledge for someone who owns the DLC rolls around to a DLC-required one, then it should have an alternative for those who do not.
(snip)
I'm assuming the pledges are chosen at random, and not on an exact cycle, so this should be a relatively easy thing to do.

NO. NO. NO.
That would mean that non-DLC players can access gold keys with far easier dungeons, that would be unacceptably unfair.

Then they can't get the new equipment. You could even lock them out of the higher level cap. Also, v16 dungeons ARE NOT easy.

Gold keys give access to V16 shoulders, including the "DLC-ones". (That's OK).
VR16 "old" vet dungeons might be slightly less easy than they used to be in VR14 BUT they are nowhere nearly as difficult as the new ones.