Please remove the stamina regen nerf on blocking. PLEASE.

Sheva I 7 I · September 2015

No thanks, as a Sorceress player I feel Im finally on more even ground against templers/nightblades who don't perma block my attacks anymore till I run out of magicka. Maybe implementing stamina build regen while blocking outside of Cyrodill , but not in pvp.

Brrrofski · September 2015

I'm on xbox, so it's hitting us tomorrow.

I'm looking forward to it.

Vet pledges have become a walk in the park.

The easier they become, the more boring they become.

As a tank, it can get real boring in some dungeons when it get's this easy.

So I'm looking forward to a new challenge.

imredneckson · September 2015

My vet 15 DK just doesn't feel as strong anymore I tried going stamina after the patch but still not very good so I'm lvl an Imperial magicka Templar good for block/rolling when I need to, large amount of health, and will have a good amount of armor/magicka when I'm done lvling him.

Noerknhar · September 2015

PLEASE leave it in. Tanking and PVPing as a tank is ridiculously boring with stam regen while blocking.

I'm deadly serious about this: If you can't tank content anymore, either you or your healers screw up. It's as easy as it gets.

Alucardo · September 2015

Noerknhar wrote: »

PLEASE leave it in. Tanking and PVPing as a tank is ridiculously boring with stam regen while blocking.

I'm deadly serious about this: If you can't tank content anymore, either you or your healers screw up. It's as easy as it gets.

Not everybody plays tank, mate

iliatha · September 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Noerknhar wrote: »

PLEASE leave it in. Tanking and PVPing as a tank is ridiculously boring with stam regen while blocking.

I'm deadly serious about this: If you can't tank content anymore, either you or your healers screw up. It's as easy as it gets.

Not everybody plays tank, mate

yea and others shouldnt tank mobs that would kill you easily ^^ where is the problem ? its a good change which makes ppl think about other builts for tanking. i like it.

tiamak · September 2015

Guys, please keep PvP and PvE apart! Some of you complain about not being able to block in PvP with a DPS build, others complain about tanking in PvE being completely ruined with the patch.

With respect to PvE, I cannot agree with the complaints. I've been doing quite a few vet dungeons since the patch and despite I'm far from being a good tank, I had no problems that I didn't have before the patch. I can even let the stamina DPS have those shards since I usually don't run out of stamina. Only time it got bad was when I tried to tank a large group of rather hard hitting mobs. But, that's not what you should do as a tank in ESO anyway and it was not the best idea before the patch either. So, take the chance and adapt to the new demands of resource management! I think it's fun to have some changes even in the high vet ranks that are demanding.

In PvP, I totally stink now. But I did so before the patch. I equipped Unstoppable and make heavy use of potions so that CC is no longer the biggest issue for me. A guild mate, high rank PvP-player, said that in his PvP-guild people are content with class balance after the patch. All I can say as a PvP noob is that I really hated it when I saw some single char moving around with his shield up, casting nasty spells that did hurt me and the whole group around him while not being hurt himself. If that is gone now, I'm all for it.

willymchilybily · September 2015

Perhaps a stupid question:

can you not stack reduced cost instead of regen and focus on minimising the costs of stuff instead of regen to counter the nerf to no regen during block? or is there just no suitable gear/racial passives to do this effectively?

Alucardo · September 2015

willymchilybily wrote: »

Perhaps a stupid question:

can you not stack reduced cost instead of regen and focus on minimising the costs of stuff instead of regen to counter the nerf to no regen during block? or is there just no suitable gear/racial passives to do this effectively?

Fair question, but when you're battle levelled enchantments mean nothing

Noerknhar · September 2015

From what I've heard (and read on the forums) so far, and based on every sort of available information source (e.g. youtube, talking to friends that are on PC etc), there are two basic types of QQ regarding this issue:

1) PvE: Tanks can't block through entire boss fights anymore, which means that they actually get damage, which means that their healers actually have to heal, which means that some QQwtfpwn groups just stink and can't clear sh*t anymore. Okay, I exaggerated a bit. Bear with me.
But: Other tanks can still tank everything with their group/raid, so it obviously is not a game issue, it's a you issue. I don't say L2P, but I say adapt. Stupidly blocking everything doesn't work anymore. Learn the boss mechanics, adapt your build and play style to the patch and stop QQing all over the forums. It's getting boring.

2) PvP: OmgwtfIcan'tblockeverysh*tanymore players are QQing on the forums. There's nothing more to say about it. It's the same as with some NBs that QQ that they can't oneshot everything with their bow anymore. Or that they can't 24/7dodgeroll anymore. It's useless to even discuss about that. It was stupid that it was possible and it was fixed. Yes, fixed. It wasn't changed, it was fixed, as it was a game breaking design flaw. Period.

And one thing to both directions: If people invested half the time they used for moaning and ranting on the forums regarding the stam reg change into actually adapting their builds or play style to the new situation, they'd actually see and understand that it was totally useless to QQ in the first place.

Ah, and because I just saw this...

Alucardo wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

Perhaps a stupid question:

can you not stack reduced cost instead of regen and focus on minimising the costs of stuff instead of regen to counter the nerf to no regen during block? or is there just no suitable gear/racial passives to do this effectively?

Fair question, but when you're battle levelled enchantments mean nothing

To be honest with you: when you're battle levelled, nothing means anything. You think they should balance their changes around battle levelled characters?! WTF of weird request would that be?

Alucardo · September 2015

Noerknhar wrote: »

From what I've heard (and read on the forums) so far, and based on every sort of available information source (e.g. youtube, talking to friends that are on PC etc), there are two basic types of QQ regarding this issue:

1) PvE: Tanks can't block through entire boss fights anymore, which means that they actually get damage, which means that their healers actually have to heal, which means that some QQwtfpwn groups just stink and can't clear sh*t anymore. Okay, I exaggerated a bit. Bear with me.
But: Other tanks can still tank everything with their group/raid, so it obviously is not a game issue, it's a you issue. I don't say L2P, but I say adapt. Stupidly blocking everything doesn't work anymore. Learn the boss mechanics, adapt your build and play style to the patch and stop QQing all over the forums. It's getting boring.

2) PvP: OmgwtfIcan'tblockeverysh*tanymore players are QQing on the forums. There's nothing more to say about it. It's the same as with some NBs that QQ that they can't oneshot everything with their bow anymore. Or that they can't 24/7dodgeroll anymore. It's useless to even discuss about that. It was stupid that it was possible and it was fixed. Yes, fixed. It wasn't changed, it was fixed, as it was a game breaking design flaw. Period.

And one thing to both directions: If people invested half the time they used for moaning and ranting on the forums regarding the stam reg change into actually adapting their builds or play style to the new situation, they'd actually see and understand that it was totally useless to QQ in the first place.

I don't think you're understanding what I've been saying, but it's my fault for not basing my original post around it and just touching up on it from here to there. The problem here is mostly down to Battle Levelling. It has its good parts, but as a stam build that has been battled levelled, check this out

1. Dodge rolling, break free are more expensive (That's ok, it was needed)
2. You gain zero regen whilst blocking. This adds up over time because,
3. Enchantments are ignored while you're battle levelled and the stamina regen you're given is really low considering the cost of the spells

So, I'd actually be OK with the change/fix if anything other than mundus stones affected my regen rates and base stats. Once again, it's my fault because this should have been the main topic of the post, not just simply removing the nerf.

Noerknhar · September 2015

Okay, that turns the discussion into a different direction ;-)

Nevertheless were my remarks (except for the one in the battle leveling direction) of a general nature and therefore keep their validity

Amica · September 2015

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

To play devils advocate here, the stamina regen nerf only prevents you from stamina regen while blocking. If you are not holding block your stam regen is the exact same as before. All the nerf did was force players to change their playstyle and adopt a more active approach to defense rather than simply "turtling up" and calling ones self a tank. You now have to block then release, block then release. You have to use other defensive skills, you now have to use health potions while leveling. Does it make the game harder, yes. But does it make the game more interesting now that you cannot just hold one button for defense, in my opinion yes. I think once people get more comfortable with some simple playstyle changes the nerf will be less an issue and many will be thankful because the game becomes more active now. Now when you meet a good tank, you know they are better than just a damage sponge, they are a survival expert. And to me that is an improvement over just holding block, and casting a taunt, then back to block. Just my opinion though.

Agreed, but i still think they should add a new endurance bar for blocking and dodge rolling that is the same for everyone. Let stam be for dps and buff vigor etc. IMO vigor should be magi not stam, its just not cricket that a heal is stam braced and not associated with magi.

Jumper45 · September 2015

I think the idea of the nerf etc is that you shouldnt be blocking 24/7 but only when you need to. As a tank you have quite a reserve of hp. You shouldnt really be blocking till you are 50% hp or lower. Hold block till you get a heal and repeat. Standing there and blocking 24/7 is just meh. It was being abused with high regen making you somewhat unkillable in pve which isnt the idea. This will push people away from that. That being said honestly it hurts a group too. People blocking at 100% hp doing NO damage to help the group or anything just standing there blocking. Its nice when the crap hits the fan but shouldnt be a no risk thing. Also I noticed it makes noob tanks almost useless in the fact they are so bent on blocking they never retaunt etc. But if all you do is block at 50% hp or lower you'll be 100% fine. it will buy a healer a lot of time to refill your hp and you can go back to dpsing till you hit 50% again. To me this seems pretty standard. Also in most games a tank gets a 100% block or some such moves but they are cooldowns and only last for 6 seconds or so. No mmo comes to mind that just has 100% blocking 100% of the time. ( it seems really stupid when you think of it that way as well) Not to mention the amount of annoyance it brings to pvp and unbalance.Saying that you shouldnt be mad its being balanced. It should add more challanges to your gameplay and thats what you want. Not just being handed everything. There was also a fair bit abuse of the mechanic with getting buffs etc from blocking. Like Magicka from blocking spells or other some such things. As something that is generally already boring. This is a good thing.

Rylana · September 2015

If you relied on permablock to tank youre a crap tank, there i said it.

Alucardo · September 2015

Rylana wrote: »

If you relied on permablock to tank youre a crap tank, there i said it.

I'm guessing you didn't read the rest of the comments based on your brain dead response. Please don't bother commenting if this is what to expect.

melodeath · September 2015

its a good change since now a tank actually has to tank instead of going full dps while holding block up.
now a tank actually has to have alot more defesive attributes to his gameplay than before.

the only downside is the pvp tanks who just want to stand there with block up untill a few people without fear just end up ignoring him.. now they run out faster and die if they didnt decide to go more offensive.

besides..didnt people want pve (the part of the game where you actually want a tank) to be harder ?

Gunphu · September 2015

Its stupid to reduce anything by 100% if its not game breaking. This affects everyone and most people are just brushing it aside and are ignorant to how much this affects the game for all classes.Take sorcs for instance, you dont want to put a shield up because your opponent is using shield breaker and you need to rely on block or dodge roll more. You just chose block because you dont want to dodge roll only to get rooted and be stuck...well you blocked during your regen tick now your screwed.

Im sure an incremental reduction in regen with testing would find a better solution than just saying ....eh f*** it just get rid of it all together. Then nerf regen and dodge rolling. I mean we all loved rock em sockem robots right.

Gunphu · September 2015

Im not a tank but this just screams lazy and half thought out. Nerfing regen by 100% while blocking seems the same to me as nerfing magicka regen by 100% while in stealth or while a shield is active, atleast from a pvp perspective.

aialghannam_ESO · September 2015

This needs to return to pre-update 7 soon. Nerf should be removed completely. It ruined PvE tanking completely.

Wing · September 2015

Sheva I 7 I wrote: »

No thanks, as a Sorceress player I feel Im finally on more even ground against templers/nightblades who don't perma block my attacks anymore till I run out of magicka. Maybe implementing stamina build regen while blocking outside of Cyrodill , but not in pvp.

and these right here are the people advocating for the block regen nerf.

I do appreciate you being honest though.

Jar_Ek · September 2015

I am a PvE / PvP tank and it doesn't seem impossible to work with, but it is definitely harder work - alot harder.
However tanking vet dungeons is still do-able, but it does require more work / skills and a decent healer.

Personofsecrets · September 2015

Dumb change that didn't accomplish what it was meant to. Nerf is just a nerf.

Personofsecrets · September 2015

Jumper45 wrote: »

I think the idea of the nerf etc is that you shouldnt be blocking 24/7 but only when you need to. As a tank you have quite a reserve of hp. You shouldnt really be blocking till you are 50% hp or lower. Hold block till you get a heal and repeat. Standing there and blocking 24/7 is just meh. It was being abused with high regen making you somewhat unkillable in pve which isnt the idea. This will push people away from that. That being said honestly it hurts a group too. People blocking at 100% hp doing NO damage to help the group or anything just standing there blocking. Its nice when the crap hits the fan but shouldnt be a no risk thing. Also I noticed it makes noob tanks almost useless in the fact they are so bent on blocking they never retaunt etc. But if all you do is block at 50% hp or lower you'll be 100% fine. it will buy a healer a lot of time to refill your hp and you can go back to dpsing till you hit 50% again. To me this seems pretty standard. Also in most games a tank gets a 100% block or some such moves but they are cooldowns and only last for 6 seconds or so. No mmo comes to mind that just has 100% blocking 100% of the time. ( it seems really stupid when you think of it that way as well) Not to mention the amount of annoyance it brings to pvp and unbalance.Saying that you shouldnt be mad its being balanced. It should add more challanges to your gameplay and thats what you want. Not just being handed everything. There was also a fair bit abuse of the mechanic with getting buffs etc from blocking. Like Magicka from blocking spells or other some such things. As something that is generally already boring. This is a good thing.

Only when you need to.

Like the entire AA hard mode fight. Maybe when a player is using biting jabs perhaps (over and over and over).

aialghannam_ESO · September 2015

ZOS needs to admit this was just a bad move. Did way more harm than good (in fact, it didn't do any good at all).

Alucardo · September 2015

aialghannam_ESO wrote: »

ZOS needs to admit this was just a bad move. Did way more harm than good (in fact, it didn't do any good at all).

Their way of looking at things has always been extreme. Sorcs spam shields too often? Bring in a set that completely ignores them instead of just dealing more damage to them. Perma-blockers are a problem? Nerf blocking so nobody regenerates stamina whilst blocking. DKs spam talons too often? Make it blockable.
They don't seem to have the ability to assess it, listen to opinions properly, and find a half-way ground. It's just nerf it to the absolute until there is nothing left.

WillhelmBlack · September 2015

I can't heal/tank or just straight up tank anymore. Completely ruined my specialist build. Another nerf to "Play the way you want to play".

My play style is to block cancel all my skills, this just chews through my stamina now.

Don't get me wrong I could completely re-spec to stamina and just hold block and scream for shards but then outside of tanking I'd just be an average Stamplar not the group support/DPS/heal/tank I want to be.

hrothbern · September 2015

Perma Block was possible for MA and even LA: High DPS and Block.

Getting that out of the battle field is quite ok IMO.

Now HA is more important if you tank and block a lot.
With a focused tank build, with low DPS, blocking is still very well possible. I do it with my tanky (solo) build

For the non tanky builds:
But using Block interactive in combat, the boss attack, only for a short moment is penalised too heavy IMO.

Start the penalty AFTER 2 seconds blocking to enable interactive blocking again !

needs a cool down of again approx 2 seconds to avoid Macro abuse of people that go out of block for a micro second and block again.

.

Jumper45 · September 2015

You have to understand having a dps with a sword and board on 2nd bar just to switch and perma block ruined it. It was easier to just nerf regen during block but that hurt tanks. What tanks need is a skill that gives SOME regen during block . This will prevent dps abuse while not crushing the tank directive. But thats also alot harder to fix then just nerfing regen. Im sure we'll see regen back on tanks eventually in some form though. But even tanks were abusing the perma block so -shrug- we'll see. As it stands it still works. You just might have to adjust your build a little for now and rely on healers instead of just blocking.

Personofsecrets · September 2015

Noerknhar wrote: »

PLEASE leave it in. Tanking and PVPing as a tank is ridiculously boring with stam regen while blocking.

I'm deadly serious about this: If you can't tank content anymore, either you or your healers screw up. It's as easy as it gets.

Boring for you? Are you a PVP DPS.