Veteran rank 16 more level = quit

Starshadw · September 2015

celsoervin14 wrote: »

Hi guys , lots of my friends already leaving the game because the level was in crease to v16 and they even hate the veteran system , right now my friends online is like 3-5 players online out of my 100 friends in eso... so can you please just stop increasing the levels? instead just make a special item drop and lots of rare item that hard to get from monster drop and can only be found in the special maps?

Every MMO out there does level increases, so I'm not sure why people seem particularly vehemently opposed to ESO doing so. Gaining levels is a basic game mechanic, as is leveling a character.

Now, personally, I wish ZOS hadn't introduced "veteran ranks" and simply continued to give us levels. Thus, right now, with the update, our characters would be level 65 once they reached the cap (because as soon as you hit level 50, you immediately become Veteran Rank 1, you don't have to earn that).

I have a sneaking suspicion that from a psychological standpoint, if they'd approached it thusly, there'd be a lot less screaming.

LordSemaj · September 2015

rb2001 wrote: »

Why even play an RPG. Let's just all start at and stay at Level 1.

Funny topic that. Levels themselves are actually unnecessary for RPGs. They were a devised mechanic to allow for gameplay transitions and lengthen what would otherwise be an extremely short game with the proper tactics or strategy guide. The same relative stats are used throughout the games in different multiples purely to force regearing your character every new chapter.

Leveling up allows you to understand the set path developers created for you, easily skip through the content you've already cleared, and indicate whether you haven't been upgrading your gear which can be found through chests and monsters drops all over the game encouraging exploration. In fact, some games scale monsters to your level so your "level" is effectively meaningless, it purely exists to force you to upgrade your gear to stay on the level of monster stats. Players are rewarded for hunting down or crafting rare gear and thus completing more of the content.

Without levels and standard gear, you could effectively rush an RPG and be done in an extremely short time. In fact, due to artificial flagging requirements, one can easily complete the old Fallout games in 10 minutes. Levels were not required, gear was not required, story flagging was not required. Just know where to go and do your thing. From an Elder Scrolls perspective, a similar thing can be done in Morrowind. Fly right over the barrier and fight the final boss having barely played for an hour.

It's entirely possible to have an RPG with no levels or progression. Most White Wolf campaigns effectively play out like that. But to tactical varying challenges you'd need to have a large cast of characters with different assortments of abilities to recruit from. Then it would effectively become like the INFINITY tabletop game. Even Valkyria Chronicles didn't put too large a focus on levels with the only real improvement coming from class changes.

FadedJeans · September 2015

LordSemaj wrote: »

Dear Blizzard,

You keep raising the level cap. I am disappointed. Your game was made to be played with only 60 levels. That's what everything was balanced around and now there's 100. When will the madness end? From now on, please only release new raid tiers. I don't mind grinding for loot while gaining zero XP, I just hate grinding for loot while my XP bar is filling up slowly.

Your customer,
That Warlock with the Tier 29 Shadowstaff

PS - Please stop adding quests to the game. All they do is give XP and XP is useless to me. I want more instances.
PPS - Please stop adding classes to the game. Your game was made for only 9 classes. I hate having to continually learn how to counter new types of threats in PVP or how to cooperate with a different sort of role in PVE.
PPPS - Also stop giving me more abilities. I hate respecs and learning new rotations every time you release an expansion.

----
When did people start loving level caps???

Troll Level: Expert

Bluestin · September 2015

I'm pretty new to ESO (PC player) and the veteran rank grind took a lot of steam out of me, lost a lot of the desire to play once I discovered that there were 16 more levels post 50 that required even more experience points to progress beyond. The champion point system I could live with but the VR system and the way gear is scaled hit me like a ton of bricks.

Right now I have a VR 2 Sorcerer, but between VR locking me out of equal footing equipment wise for pvp and the fact that you're equipping the exact same gear just with higher numbers (I've done the vertical progression gear grind and burned out far too many times, the horizontal progression in Guild Wars 2 was some much needed reprieve) leaves me a bit jaded.

Callous2208 · September 2015

Bluestin wrote: »

I'm pretty new to ESO (PC player) and the veteran rank grind took a lot of steam out of me, lost a lot of the desire to play once I discovered that there were 16 more levels post 50 that required even more experience points to progress beyond. The champion point system I could live with but the VR system and the way gear is scaled hit me like a ton of bricks.

Right now I have a VR 2 Sorcerer, but between VR locking me out of equal footing equipment wise for pvp and the fact that you're equipping the exact same gear just with higher numbers (I've done the vertical progression gear grind and burned out far too many times, the horizontal progression in Guild Wars 2 was some much needed reprieve) leaves me a bit jaded.

Last time I played gw2 there was a ton of vertical gear progression from 1-80, have they changed this. Are you referring to endgame where you only grind for cosmetics in dungeons with everyone specced zerker dpsing and running back to the battle before the team wipes if they miss a dodge?

Waseem · September 2015

i like vet levels, you dont like it.. let ZOS listen to all players and the game will end as a rubbish market

firstdecan · September 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

Most of my friends quit playing long before this, and there's no point in them coming back since you can only play with people at about the same level..

That has not been my experience. Most of the folks that I play with are higher level than me - much higher. I've been running IC with one friend who is vet 14, the other vet 9 and I'm 26th (was 16th when we first started doing this). That's what battle leveling is for.

It's been fun!

Battle leveling only exists in PvP zones. So, you can choose to play only one aspect of the game in order to play with friends, you can play by yourself, or you can find something else to do.

Not everyone enjoys PvP, some people enjoy the PvE in the game and would like to enjoy it with friends.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2015

Robotmafia wrote: »

i mean before the dlc youve basically seen and done everything... now theres new stuff to do and gain... your gear needs to be replaced and all that fun starts over again.. as it does in any mmo expansion... the leveling part is almost the easiest part of this dlc... if youve played enough before then you already started with v15 due to added up XP...

if you dont want games that progress and change then dont play mmos....

And two days later, you likely have again. @Robotmafia, are you talking about the
"hours of PVE" IC was supposed to provide?

You clear the "Main quest" in a matter of a very few hours (if you're going really slow...) and once you've explored the lower and discovered all, it all becomes repeatable and repetitious.

The increased gear levels would be great, except for the nerf to the existing ones. The downplay of our characters vs the cranking up of enemies is extreme in a single patch. You don't level to get stronger or better gear, you level and regear to get back to the level you were before the level increase.

Bad decision, IMO.

Some of the new mechanics are interesting, while not necessarily intuitive.

Also, by killing Gold's XP (logical step would be to go to the VR11+ zone of Crag, but that's even worse.), not raising the rewards for even Leaderboard Trials/DSA/VDSA, they've effectively given people less to do by adding more content!?

You don't promote the new by slamming the door on the old. And people that never had a chance to try to run that content think they're having a hard time finding groups now? People will do it once, if even that, just long enough to get the achievement.

Arundo wrote: »

celsoervin14 wrote: »

Hi guys , lots of my friends already leaving the game because the level was in crease to v16 and they even hate the veteran system , right now my friends online is like 3-5 players online out of my 100 friends in eso... so can you please just stop increasing the levels? instead just make a special item drop and lots of rare item that hard to get from monster drop and can only be found in the special maps?

Really ???

Takes about a day of casual play to get from 14 to 16.

@Arundo , considering it takes about 30 seconds to hit 15 for most that were 14 to start.

The level up is not the issue.

The power down to promote the level up is.

(And if cranking damage/resistances up on enemies in effort to require new gear/specific CP placement to clear content you were able to do just fine pre-patch is not the way to toughen up the game, either.)

(It's not like the 1.5 to 1.6 change, where dynamics were different and took some adjustment. This is ZoS going to extremes, and breaking entirely too many unrelated things along the way.)

Uncle_Voodoo · September 2015

Necrelios wrote: »

My chief complaint isn't the VR or the CP systems, it's that I ran out of content to get me there organically without having to grind. When they add more quests and places to adventure (either solo or group,or quests you can complete as a group) I'll be back. Grinders just aren't my thing, I'm more of the adventuring type.

I have leveled 2 characers to v14 now and I have reached v14 before finishing all the quests in Bangkorai. I don't grind mobs but I also don't run past mobs when I am questing..

firstdecan · September 2015

Starshadw wrote: »

celsoervin14 wrote: »

Hi guys , lots of my friends already leaving the game because the level was in crease to v16 and they even hate the veteran system , right now my friends online is like 3-5 players online out of my 100 friends in eso... so can you please just stop increasing the levels? instead just make a special item drop and lots of rare item that hard to get from monster drop and can only be found in the special maps?

Every MMO out there does level increases, so I'm not sure why people seem particularly vehemently opposed to ESO doing so. Gaining levels is a basic game mechanic, as is leveling a character.

Now, personally, I wish ZOS hadn't introduced "veteran ranks" and simply continued to give us levels. Thus, right now, with the update, our characters would be level 65 once they reached the cap (because as soon as you hit level 50, you immediately become Veteran Rank 1, you don't have to earn that).

I have a sneaking suspicion that from a psychological standpoint, if they'd approached it thusly, there'd be a lot less screaming.

The evolution of this is from player feedback.

VR ranks were originally just 1-10. They were intended to take a long time to get, and only let you access better gear. VR ranks did not give you skill \ character points. Also, you could not get to VR ranks until you had beat the main quest line. You would max out at level 50, and then Cyrodiil \ silver \ gold zones were your end game experience where you would progress through VR ranks.

Then came pre-release, and the exploiters got to VR10 within days. The level disparity encouraged others to grind \ exploit just to be competitive. ZoS nerfed any grind they could find, making it difficult for others to catch up. That turned the VR ranks into the VR grind, as the only way to level characters was by going through all the same quests over and over. PvP was generally unrewarding unless you were in an exploit guild designed to farm each other (or farm emperor). Which effectively leads us to where we are now, with a level cap increase where the only way to reasonably get to the new cap is in the new DLC (If you've gotten from 15-16 outside of IC, I'd like to know where \ how).

So, I can see how many people are frustrated over this. That last level bump, from 15-16, is very time consuming to get outside of IC, plus any of the items someone would want for those levels are only available in IC. It's like ZoS created a new tier of game play and told everyone who didn't cough up the cash to suffer.

I tried to level without IC, and it takes forever. After doing some casual play in IC, I levelled very quickly. Plus I have access to all the cool stuff that is selling for hundreds of thousands of gold. If I hadn't gotten on board with the new meta wagon, I'd be very frustrated too.

Defilted · September 2015

The console version of this game is fantastic. They can continue to raise the leveling cap on ever expansion. It will be fun to level because this game is fun to play.

Krombie · September 2015

Zos just remove the level cap and let us have infinite levels, that way character progression will never end .
Add really advances zones (vr60) with super hard monsters that drop rate loot and add more quests

Paradox · September 2015

I'm seriously considering quitting because of how they're handling the community post patch.

Their response has been terrible and they've left the most important questions we've asked without any acknowledgement.

sagent64 · September 2015

how about just keep the CP points system... and turn the back the max lvl to 50 lol and just spread rare items parts in the new maps i dont know ....veteran system is ok for me but just some of my friends who quit the game told me it will take years for them before they can catch up and reach the max level thats why they quit ... but they said they enjoyed the non vet pvp but their toon now already reach vet ... they gave me their items already like grain solvent etc but i keep it just incase they comeback

Swindy · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

DurzoBlint13 wrote: »

is this post supposed to have #satire? Because it seems like the lamest argument I have seen since the Destiny forums

Do not speakath the D word, terrible terrible memories.

@Swindy don't exaggerate, CPs aren't the issue, that's your own issue with skill, you said it yourself. There aren't tons of players with 900cp, the average pc transfer had somewhere around 100-200, have they suddenly managed to gain 6-9x the amount of CP in only a few months?

Besides after 300 you get diminishing returns, 0-300 CP difference is equivalent to 300-1600 as the returns become too small.

No argument my skills are poor...anyone on XBox EU, who is yellow or blue look for my character, he's easy AP.

But in pure damage burst & defensive capabilities, I'm everything I can be at my level (no guilds, no groups, no drops or special pieces, no AP purchases etc), yet absolute cannon fodder against, & incapable of exerting damage upon, other players. Even had to dump DW for 2H since without vigor or caltrops I needed Rally & brawler to live.

I read others damage capabilities on this forum, and their defences, and I cannot get anywhere near their numbers on either, much less both, yet they have similar stamina, magic, & health stats.
In a 1-1 stand up fight (ignoring the from stealth ganks I get in delves & around battle fields and ignore being zerged) that says my stamblade is severely disadvantaged, which can only be gear, CP, & perhaps potions.
If he can hurt me & I can't hurt him, it's not entirely player mechanics.
Now I'd rather avoid all Pvp, but it does have a way of finding me I've noticed...& that's fair enough too, MMO after all.

As I said, it's my issue as a solo Pve in a group war area, it's just a little sad I pay my money yet cannot quest for items & earn CP as a solo the way groups & Pvp can is all.

I understand WHY Zos has built the group environment to be reward rich, but it saddens me personally as a chosen solo.

SeptimusDova · September 2015

VR may one day be removed. CP one day may be regulated. Khajiit one day may be awarded a Meow emote. For every person that supports any of the above. There will be people who contest any of the above. It is the nature of all things.

S1ipperyJim · September 2015

Selique wrote: »

Quitting over 1.5 lvls (If youir VR14)? That's absurd. It took me a grand total of a week to get to VR16 from VR14.

The Exp increases are insane. Its nothing like it used to be.

A week? It took me 4 hrs lol

Kronosphere · September 2015

celsoervin14 wrote: »

how about just keep the CP points system... and turn the back the max lvl to 50 lol and just spread rare items parts in the new maps i dont know ....veteran system is ok for me but just some of my friends who quit the game told me it will take years for them before they can catch up and reach the max level thats why they quit ... but they said they enjoyed the non vet pvp but their toon now already reach vet ... they gave me their items already like grain solvent etc but i keep it just incase they comeback

did you read my earlier comment about v14 used to take more exp than the current v16? they actually NERFED how hard it is to reach max when they added v16...

OrphanHelgen · September 2015

increased xp gained in vet zones and questing by 50%

reduced xp to get a veteran level by 25%

Added xp boosters

rage quit because why? Its twice as fast , if not more, to level to 16 then we used to level to vet 12, when that was max level.

zornyan · September 2015

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

increased xp gained in vet zones and questing by 50%

reduced xp to get a veteran level by 25%

Added xp boosters

rage quit because why? Its twice as fast , if not more, to level to 16 then we used to level to vet 12, when that was max level.

Because our of the say 5 million players, only 10% can actually engage their brains and do simple mathematics. Leaving 100% on here to moan

@Swindy that's your number one mistake, you are basing information on what others have told you and what youve seen on YouTube. Do not believe the basement trolls, when you see a YouTube video of a nightblade ganking 10 players and killing them all, it's because it took them 5 hours of combat to find those 10 players, which are all underskilled and made to look impressive.

If you need help with your build feel free to message me, im on ps4, and even in bwb my nightblade can gank the average player and kill them in sub 5 seconds comfortably enough.

Swindy · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

increased xp gained in vet zones and questing by 50%

reduced xp to get a veteran level by 25%

Added xp boosters

rage quit because why? Its twice as fast , if not more, to level to 16 then we used to level to vet 12, when that was max level.

Because our of the say 5 million players, only 10% can actually engage their brains and do simple mathematics. Leaving 100% on here to moan

@Swindy that's your number one mistake, you are basing information on what others have told you and what youve seen on YouTube. Do not believe the basement trolls, when you see a YouTube video of a nightblade ganking 10 players and killing them all, it's because it took them 5 hours of combat to find those 10 players, which are all underskilled and made to look impressive.

If you need help with your build feel free to message me, im on ps4, and even in bwb my nightblade can gank the average player and kill them in sub 5 seconds comfortably enough.

Thank you. I will.
They IC in an hour my time on XBox EU, so I'll be offline for hours, & will message you after my dinner...rare mignon waits not for gaming.

Robotmafia · September 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You clear the "Main quest" in a matter of a very few hours (if you're going really slow...) and once you've explored the lower and discovered all, it all becomes repeatable and repetitious.

The increased gear levels would be great, except for the nerf to the existing ones. The downplay of our characters vs the cranking up of enemies is extreme in a single patch. You don't level to get stronger or better gear, you level and regear to get back to the level you were before the level increase.

Bad decision, IMO.

Well IC is mostly a PVP patch.. there is some PVE but its mostly built around atleast some pvp... and the main quest ist very short i agree with you there.. but i think its ok that they offered a new map and play style for pvp.. its long over due if u ask me and still not enough to really satisfy my pvp needs..

with your 2nd point i totally agree! usually in mmos.. they add content and lvls and u build on the strength u have now... here it feels like iv been cut in half and now have to start becoming whole again... which is not nearly as gratifying as becoming even more powerful than before...

Digiman · September 2015

celsoervin14 wrote: »

Hi guys , lots of my friends already leaving the game because the level was in crease to v16 and they even hate the veteran system , right now my friends online is like 3-5 players online out of my 100 friends in eso... so can you please just stop increasing the levels? instead just make a special item drop and lots of rare item that hard to get from monster drop and can only be found in the special maps?

Actually I found level to VR 16 ridiculously easy, especially compared to before. Just handed in a group of daily quests in Cyrodiil. Granted that getting to VR 15 only required 1 xp point so kill one mob was easy.

I think the reason why it was easy was either because of the new membership XP bonus, or enlightenment or a combination of both. Eitherway I was able to knock it out in half a day of simple game time.

zornyan · September 2015

@swindy obviously console messaging won't work as we're on different machines, but feel free to message on here, I can go through some basic builds, and what equipment I use alongside skills and morphs.

One very important fact, it won't make you good, having a set of skills on a bar, isn't going to save your life, the most important thing is reading the situation. Example.

I'm ganking solo with my Nb, I usually go inbetween two war zones as to jump people riding to battle. I don't just jump the first person I see, as quite often zergs come in at random times, you need to wait a couple minutes and get a feel for how quickly zergs are running around, have a look over the landscape as getting the high ground is actually very useful if you need to escape, get w rotation ready.

Like snipe, heavy attack, venom arrow, ambush, suprise attack, but also be aware of countering enemies cc's, roots and snares and knockback etc.

The number one thing I see in pvp is people don't think about counters, if you have one counter for each type of enemy across your two bars you really can't go wrong, such as mass hysteria is the best fear, and disables blockers/shield stackers quickly.

And remember if a fight starts going on for several seconds and you haven't brought your target down, have an escape ready, you're not going to win every fight, so be prepared to jump ship to live to fight another day.

JuarezLT · September 2015

Oh no there is more thinks that i have to do in the game :S i must quit mmorpg eso

ThisOnePosts · September 2015

I like having more levels to gain. However, I would like it EVEN MORE if we could have the choice to upgrade our gear instead of feeling compelled to change it every few months.

It was quick for me to get to full VR16 gear and upgrade them to Legendary along with the jewelry set, etc.. that I want. I'm done with gear once again and have been for a bit yet IC is so new. What keeps me playing is the actual fun content, not a "filler grind".

If they made it an even longer grind then increased levels again, that would definitely be a negative thing. "Play how you want". I want the option to choose which gear I use and at what level that gear is when I have it. I don't expect it to come without some sort of cost like Tel Var, tokens, RNG for special materials, etc.. that's fine. Just give us the option with the next level increase (if there is one).

Bhakura · September 2015

Op and OPs friends must not have played Anarchy Online.
That one ended up with 220 levels !!!!
THE HORROR !!!

BTW, it took me around one day of gameplay time to reach v16 and i wasnt even grinding it to get it asap.