A suggestion for balancing Cloak
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Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭If they nerf cloak nightblades become useless because its a core mechanic of the whole class. A nightblade without cloak is just a sword wielding nobody.
@Ezareth does just fine without cloak.Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf3 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If they nerf cloak nightblades become useless because its a core mechanic of the whole class. A nightblade without cloak is just a sword wielding nobody.
Cloak is a crutch and there are far better aspects to the NB class than cloak.
Cloak currently is an issue for everyone not running Piercing Mark but I don't know that I really support nerfing it. I think perhaps the OPs suggestion isn't a terrible idea..and would be a far better solution than the 33% increase on consecutive casts that ZoS is bound to put on it at some point if people don't stop crying about it.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube2 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭If they nerf cloak nightblades become useless because its a core mechanic of the whole class. A nightblade without cloak is just a sword wielding nobody.
Cloak is a crutch and there are far better aspects to the NB class than cloak.
Cloak currently is an issue for everyone not running Piercing Mark but I don't know that I really support nerfing it. I think perhaps the OPs suggestion isn't a terrible idea..and would be a far better solution than the 33% increase on consecutive casts that ZoS is bound to put on it at some point if people don't stop crying about it.
Dunno my main reason to play a NB is the stealth aspect of the class(like every other mmo stealth=my class),cloak in my opinion have alredy many counter other than a potion but Magelight/Flare could see a buffEdited by killingspreeb16_ESO on September 11, 2015 2:52AM0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are sooo many counters ? Is it OP because you refuse to fit a counter into your build?
Cloak is a major skill for NB defense unless we get a damage shield otherwise nerfing cloak Kills magicka NB.
Some may think -why should I slot a skill to counter your skill-
Well It shuts cloak down, even bolt escape works when snared. Cloak is close to useless when countered.
DK reflect wings are really good OP
NB cloak really good OP
Sorc bolt escape and shields OP
Templar believe it or not that cleanse that heals is OP shuts down alot of builds and is crazy powerful when spamed
All that you said was nerfed. Lol0 -
Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »
Interesting you say that. After the latest patch most DKs don't use GDB or hold block extensively, and igneous shield will stop being used as more people begin using the shieldbreaker set....Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darnathian wrote: »
Interesting you say that. After the latest patch most DKs don't use GDB or hold block extensively, and igneous shield will stop being used as more people begin using the shieldbreaker set....
Yup. My beloved dragon knight is having a identity crisis.0 -
Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭Same here.
Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf0 -
Farorin✭✭✭✭✭Suggestions for balancing cloak. Use one of the various counters for it and profit from all the dead and crying Nightblades.2 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If they nerf cloak nightblades become useless because its a core mechanic of the whole class. A nightblade without cloak is just a sword wielding nobody.
Cloak is a crutch and there are far better aspects to the NB class than cloak.
Cloak currently is an issue for everyone not running Piercing Mark but I don't know that I really support nerfing it. I think perhaps the OPs suggestion isn't a terrible idea..and would be a far better solution than the 33% increase on consecutive casts that ZoS is bound to put on it at some point if people don't stop crying about it.
The problem I see here is its a crutch that does its thing well, and with so many people flocking to it there are a lot of NB's who barely take a step without casting cloak. Its only a matter of time i'm guessing before zos swings the mighty nerf hammer their way, right now all I can say to nb's is come up with a compromise and hope zos listens. Also to those implying nb's are frail or that they have no defenses outside of cloak, really?1 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭If they nerf cloak nightblades become useless because its a core mechanic of the whole class. A nightblade without cloak is just a sword wielding nobody.
Cloak is a crutch and there are far better aspects to the NB class than cloak.
Cloak currently is an issue for everyone not running Piercing Mark but I don't know that I really support nerfing it. I think perhaps the OPs suggestion isn't a terrible idea..and would be a far better solution than the 33% increase on consecutive casts that ZoS is bound to put on it at some point if people don't stop crying about it.
The problem I see here is its a crutch that does its thing well, and with so many people flocking to it there are a lot of NB's who barely take a step without casting cloak. Its only a matter of time i'm guessing before zos swings the mighty nerf hammer their way, right now all I can say to nb's is come up with a compromise and hope zos listens. Also to those implying nb's are frail or that they have no defenses outside of cloak, really?
Cloak is fine,people are making cloak a skill like you can go 1vs20 get the kill and disappear,if something like this happens well it's a l2p issue for those 20 people,everyone have something that work against cloak,no one force you to drink a potion if you do well you get an huge adavtange against the NB,after the roll dodge nerf i need something to stay alive since i can't spam dodge for days anymore or block what im supposed to do facetank people?i don't play magika NB from release so i can't talk much about the magika part but both need cloak,choose a counter and slot it in your bar.
if people think every counter should be a free detect pot that someone can use everytime he want well bad news for them,is like to ask a skill that reduce to 0 every heal you do because someone find them annoying or a skill that make every attack you do bypass shield not just light attack.
And for me those people who hate cloak so much will not stop cry about it anyways even if they add a % cost increase,the NB cloak more than 2 time in a row?back to the forum!Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on September 11, 2015 5:03AM0 -
FlounderOG✭✭✭The only reason to even use magicka on a nightblade is for the cloak spam. Take that away and you effectively eliminate an entire build system and make nightblades stamina only.
It's unfortunate that complainers drive the patches, When regular PVPers don't seem to mind.-Daggerfall Covenant (Xbox NA)-
Haderus Main
Tavia Guest1 -
JDar✭✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »halting magicka regen during cloak is a great fix, to bad magicka nigthblade's will complain.
Yes we will. That's a terrible idea.0 -
JDar✭✭✭✭✭
That's because he's a stamina nightblade. We are talking about magicka players. Real nightblades.0 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭FlounderOG wrote: »The only reason to even use magicka on a nightblade is for the cloak spam. Take that away and you effectively eliminate an entire build system and make nightblades stamina only.
It's unfortunate that complainers drive the patches, When regular PVPers don't seem to mind.
Dude, learn to read. "The solution to balancing Cloak is NOT applying magicka penalties for consecutive use or halting recovery whilst Cloak is active". I don't want to take your Cloak away, stop making up ***. This skill is fine on "normal" Nightblades, but it is NOT fine on these Nigthblades who are moving around at the speed of sound when they're invisible.1 -
Poxheart✭✭✭✭✭
That's because he's a stamina nightblade. We are talking about magicka players. Real nightblades.
That's funny, I play a magicka nightblade and I consider cloak to be stupidly OP right now. All the "real nightblades" better start looking for ways to survive without their crutch because ZoS will nerf the skill at some point.Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.
Pox Dragon Knight
Poxheart Nightblade
The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
Knights of the WhiteWolf4 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A Nightblade got so annoyed at me for spamming blazing spear he went into full offence mode, I assume out of frustration. I seriously have no problem pulling them out of cloak, as I'm sure many others don't either. It's fine the way it is, and does not need nerfing in any manner.1 -
Angarato✭✭✭if they nerf cloak it *** stamina nb. we dont use it that often but we do need it for survivablity. i agree that the spam from a magicka nb is annoying. but theres alot of hard counters to it.1
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OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cloak is indeed a core Nightblade mechanic, to nerf it is just silly. I don't even use piercing mark anymore, i have no problem killing other Nightblades.
Magicka NB is far too squishy, they don't have a hardened ward or the greatest resistances. Cloak isn't strong when you know how to counter it so easily. Geez i toss one caltrops and have a nice safety blanket, it's a total shutout.Edited by OdinForge on September 11, 2015 2:01PMThe Age of Wrobel.1 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »
Interesting you say that. After the latest patch most DKs don't use GDB or hold block extensively, and igneous shield will stop being used as more people begin using the shieldbreaker set....
Yup. My beloved dragon knight is having a identity crisis.
Not just DKs. The whole game is becoming more homogenized. If the devs have their way we're going to be heavy attacking each other to death before they're done.If they nerf cloak nightblades become useless because its a core mechanic of the whole class. A nightblade without cloak is just a sword wielding nobody.
Cloak is a crutch and there are far better aspects to the NB class than cloak.
Cloak currently is an issue for everyone not running Piercing Mark but I don't know that I really support nerfing it. I think perhaps the OPs suggestion isn't a terrible idea..and would be a far better solution than the 33% increase on consecutive casts that ZoS is bound to put on it at some point if people don't stop crying about it.
The problem I see here is its a crutch that does its thing well, and with so many people flocking to it there are a lot of NB's who barely take a step without casting cloak. Its only a matter of time i'm guessing before zos swings the mighty nerf hammer their way, right now all I can say to nb's is come up with a compromise and hope zos listens. Also to those implying nb's are frail or that they have no defenses outside of cloak, really?
Pretty much. In grinding the sewers last night solo and then later in a duo I didn't see a single non-magicka NB player. They just kept coming down the sewers and ganking carebears for their stones until the tried that garbage on me and ended up making donations. Later on with Cinn I kid you not there was a group of 5 magicka nightblades roaming around killing people. There were a few hairy moments and you can never be sure you've killed every one when there are that many freaking nightblades. They just kept proxy detting, fear spamming, and dawnbreaking everything that moves but they made some nice donations as well.
Without cloak I agree they are easy meat, but if I didn't have piercing mark we'd have never killed them. I have no idea how I would kill these players on my sorcerer right now and that's a problem. Cinn was using detect pots but the duration is so short now you just can't kill anyone in that time unless you're zerging them down. Healing ward is still very powerful and a magicka nightblade doesn't go down easily at all. Couple cloak with fear and they're downright squirrely.
That's because he's a stamina nightblade. We are talking about magicka players. Real nightblades.
I don't know that I'd consider magicka nightblades the "Real" nightblades. When I picture nightblade I think of the ZoS trailer for the game and that's what I modeled my playstyle after. Where the DK uses brute force and overpowers his foes, the nightblade uses speed and finesse. /rpoff Keep in mind, if this guy was using a sword and board instead of that p*ssy bow he'd have bashed that Daedra's teeth in when he was trying to turn him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH9fCA3dmGc Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
JDar✭✭✭✭✭if they nerf cloak it *** stamina nb. we dont use it that often but we do need it for survivablity. i agree that the spam from a magicka nb is annoying. but theres alot of hard counters to it.
Why is it okay for stamina nightblades to use and not magicka nightblades? Stamina players have vigor and medium armor.
That's because he's a stamina nightblade. We are talking about magicka players. Real nightblades.
That's funny, I play a magicka nightblade and I consider cloak to be stupidly OP right now. All the "real nightblades" better start looking for ways to survive without their crutch because ZoS will nerf the skill at some point.
It's a strong ability that nightblades are supposed to have. Not a crutch. Why do you think it is the first ability in the skill tree?
Edit: I think calling it a crutch is even more dubious as I try to imagine playing a magicka melee class in light armor with no cloak just healing ward and fear in a game of high physical damage. Sorcs and templars wear light armor also but they have shields and burst heals.You're supposed to use it, especially given the devs made it proc Shadow Barrier and synergize with Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack. Vigor is a crutch, cloak is not.
Why don't you take cloak off your bar and let me know how far you get, since you don't need it then?
Edited by JDar on September 11, 2015 2:18PM0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭if they nerf cloak it *** stamina nb. we dont use it that often but we do need it for survivablity. i agree that the spam from a magicka nb is annoying. but theres alot of hard counters to it.
Why is it okay for stamina nightblades to use and not magicka nightblades? Stamina players have vigor and medium armor.
That's because he's a stamina nightblade. We are talking about magicka players. Real nightblades.
That's funny, I play a magicka nightblade and I consider cloak to be stupidly OP right now. All the "real nightblades" better start looking for ways to survive without their crutch because ZoS will nerf the skill at some point.
It's a strong ability that nightblades are supposed to have. Not a crutch. Why do you think it is the first ability in the skill tree?
Don't get me wrong, I've never supported a nerf to any ability in this game and I don't with cloak either but it is pretty obvious how the ability right now in the hands of the right player is an order of magnitude more powerful than any other ability. It has some counters available and yes every single player in this game is going to die to a group of skilled players attacking them no matter who they are (as it should be) but in a 1 v 1 scenario it gives you the option for a 100% escape scenario if you're skilled and play correctly. They nerfed sorc bolt escape for this very reason and I expect they're going to nerf cloak for the same reason. I hope when they do end up nerfing it that the change doesn't completely gimp the playstyle like it has with sorc. I honestly think they made a huge mistake with the detect pot change as there was some order of balance with that and skilled nightblades learned to counter it.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
JDar✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »Darnathian wrote: »
Interesting you say that. After the latest patch most DKs don't use GDB or hold block extensively, and igneous shield will stop being used as more people begin using the shieldbreaker set....
Yup. My beloved dragon knight is having a identity crisis.
Not just DKs. The whole game is becoming more homogenized. If the devs have their way we're going to be heavy attacking each other to death before they're done.If they nerf cloak nightblades become useless because its a core mechanic of the whole class. A nightblade without cloak is just a sword wielding nobody.
Cloak is a crutch and there are far better aspects to the NB class than cloak.
Cloak currently is an issue for everyone not running Piercing Mark but I don't know that I really support nerfing it. I think perhaps the OPs suggestion isn't a terrible idea..and would be a far better solution than the 33% increase on consecutive casts that ZoS is bound to put on it at some point if people don't stop crying about it.
The problem I see here is its a crutch that does its thing well, and with so many people flocking to it there are a lot of NB's who barely take a step without casting cloak. Its only a matter of time i'm guessing before zos swings the mighty nerf hammer their way, right now all I can say to nb's is come up with a compromise and hope zos listens. Also to those implying nb's are frail or that they have no defenses outside of cloak, really?
Pretty much. In grinding the sewers last night solo and then later in a duo I didn't see a single non-magicka NB player. They just kept coming down the sewers and ganking carebears for their stones until the tried that garbage on me and ended up making donations. Later on with Cinn I kid you not there was a group of 5 magicka nightblades roaming around killing people. There were a few hairy moments and you can never be sure you've killed every one when there are that many freaking nightblades. They just kept proxy detting, fear spamming, and dawnbreaking everything that moves but they made some nice donations as well.
Without cloak I agree they are easy meat, but if I didn't have piercing mark we'd have never killed them. I have no idea how I would kill these players on my sorcerer right now and that's a problem. Cinn was using detect pots but the duration is so short now you just can't kill anyone in that time unless you're zerging them down. Healing ward is still very powerful and a magicka nightblade doesn't go down easily at all. Couple cloak with fear and they're downright squirrely.
That's because he's a stamina nightblade. We are talking about magicka players. Real nightblades.
I don't know that I'd consider magicka nightblades the "Real" nightblades. When I picture nightblade I think of the ZoS trailer for the game and that's what I modeled my playstyle after. Where the DK uses brute force and overpowers his foes, the nightblade uses speed and finesse. /rpoff Keep in mind, if this guy was using a sword and board instead of that p*ssy bow he'd have bashed that Daedra's teeth in when he was trying to turn him.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH9fCA3dmGc
I feel like the devs got the nightblade thing kind of wrong, and kind of shoehorned it into an archetypical rogue type instead of a mage class, but that's another discussion.0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭if they nerf cloak it *** stamina nb. we dont use it that often but we do need it for survivablity. i agree that the spam from a magicka nb is annoying. but theres alot of hard counters to it.
Why is it okay for stamina nightblades to use and not magicka nightblades? Stamina players have vigor and medium armor.
That's because he's a stamina nightblade. We are talking about magicka players. Real nightblades.
That's funny, I play a magicka nightblade and I consider cloak to be stupidly OP right now. All the "real nightblades" better start looking for ways to survive without their crutch because ZoS will nerf the skill at some point.
It's a strong ability that nightblades are supposed to have. Not a crutch. Why do you think it is the first ability in the skill tree?
Don't get me wrong, I've never supported a nerf to any ability in this game and I don't with cloak either but it is pretty obvious how the ability right now in the hands of the right player is an order of magnitude more powerful than any other ability. It has some counters available and yes every single player in this game is going to die to a group of skilled players attacking them no matter who they are (as it should be) but in a 1 v 1 scenario it gives you the option for a 100% escape scenario if you're skilled and play correctly. They nerfed sorc bolt escape for this very reason and I expect they're going to nerf cloak for the same reason. I hope when they do end up nerfing it that the change doesn't completely gimp the playstyle like it has with sorc. I honestly think they made a huge mistake with the detect pot change as there was some order of balance with that and skilled nightblades learned to counter it.
This is the ZOS logic that confuses me, there were other issues to detect pots that nightblades hated. The length of time that it lasted however was manageable, with longer TTK it doesn't make sense to reduce the length of time a detect pot is active. Especially within the walls of Imperial City and the sewers, where there are many places to hide from sight and creative ways to get there while detected.Edited by OdinForge on September 11, 2015 2:22PMThe Age of Wrobel.2 -
JDar✭✭✭✭✭You know what you guys kind of have a point. I just hope they don't do some more guardrail-to-guardrail type nerf and ruin the ability. Feels unfair that I've put all this time into learning how to use cloak to support my abilities and dictate the tempo of a battle but instead it's getting nerfed because of cheap abuse as a get out of jail free card.
If I could cast it every ten seconds, let's say, without a magicka penalty, I'd be fine, because that's about how I use it. Mostly I weave it in before Concealed Weapon so I can stun people. As long as I can do that every time CC immunity gets broken that would be fine.
edit: I also agree with the detect pots comment you made Ezareth, I am not sure I agree with that one.Edited by JDar on September 11, 2015 2:34PM0 -
FlounderOG✭✭✭FlounderOG wrote: »The only reason to even use magicka on a nightblade is for the cloak spam. Take that away and you effectively eliminate an entire build system and make nightblades stamina only.
It's unfortunate that complainers drive the patches, When regular PVPers don't seem to mind.
Dude, learn to read. "The solution to balancing Cloak is NOT applying magicka penalties for consecutive use or halting recovery whilst Cloak is active". I don't want to take your Cloak away, stop making up ***. This skill is fine on "normal" Nightblades, but it is NOT fine on these Nigthblades who are moving around at the speed of sound when they're invisible.
I can read just fine. Maybe you should read the entire thread before jumping in and saying something silly and inflammatory.
Just because YOUR solution is to take away speed, does not mean it hasn't been suggested MULTIPLE times to take away the Regen or make a cost increase. Both of those things I am very against.
Taking the speed off of those abilities would result in many abilities needing a HUGE buff, since the only reason to have them on your bar in the first place is for the speed increase that they offer.-Daggerfall Covenant (Xbox NA)-
Haderus Main
Tavia Guest0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You know what you guys kind of have a point. I just hope they don't do some more guardrail-to-guardrail type nerf and ruin the ability. Feels unfair that I've put all this time into learning how to use cloak to support my abilities and dictate the tempo of a battle but instead it's getting nerfed because of cheap abuse as a get out of jail free card.
If I could cast it every ten seconds, let's say, without a magicka penalty, I'd be fine, because that's about how I use it. Mostly I weave it in before Concealed Weapon so I can stun people. As long as I can do that every time CC immunity gets broken that would be fine.
edit: I also agree with the detect pots comment you made Ezareth, I am not sure I agree with that one.
That's exactly the position sorcerer's find themselves in time and time again, some builds spam bolt, people argue for it to be nerfed, and then fewer builds can reliably use the skill anymore. Then it repeats itself as a small group find ways around the nerfs to continue spamming the skill and getting more attention toward it. I am guessing it'll be the NB's turn on the chopping block soon*.1 -
rb2001✭✭✭✭I feel like cloak is the few things NBs even have that's competitive anymore. Just a feeling.1 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Give it the bolt escape roll dodge treatment. Off with their heads and soforth.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
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