A suggestion for balancing Cloak
Isbilen
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It is no secret to anyone who isn't a forum-Nightblade that Cloak in it's current state is just ridiculous. Area damage spells are supposed to work as a counter to Cloak, but even if you activate the longest range spell you have slotted as soon as you aee the Nightblade cloak, he can be in another IC district before the animation on your area spell has even begun playing. The solution to balancing Cloak is not buffing detection potions back to how they were, applying magicka penalties for consecutive use or halting recovery whilst Cloak is active. To balance Cloak, all that needs to be done is make sneak speed bonuses such as Dark Stalker only affect normal sneak and not the Nightblade Cloak ability.
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GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭halting magicka regen during cloak is a great fix, to bad magicka nigthblade's will complain.PS4 NA DC3 -
Levo18✭✭✭✭If they nerf cloak nightblades become useless because its a core mechanic of the whole class. A nightblade without cloak is just a sword wielding nobody.8 -
Sykotical✭✭✭I think his proposal was to remove speed while cloaked. You could still have your cloak.Son Azoth | Breton Nightblade
PC - NA - DC - myCampaignTBD0 -
Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭I think his proposal was to remove speed while cloaked. You could still have your cloak.
Exactly. Cloaking itself is fine, but cloaking with Dark Stalker, Major Expedition and Concealed Weapon all together is just crazy.3 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭There are sooo many counters ? Is it OP because you refuse to fit a counter into your build?
Cloak is a major skill for NB defense unless we get a damage shield otherwise nerfing cloak Kills magicka NB.
Some may think -why should I slot a skill to counter your skill-
Well It shuts cloak down, even bolt escape works when snared. Cloak is close to useless when countered.
DK reflect wings are really good OP
NB cloak really good OP
Sorc bolt escape and shields OP
Templar believe it or not that cleanse that heals is OP shuts down alot of builds and is crazy powerful when spamed9 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The thing is a nightblade can still cloak with concealed weapon without sneaking and move very fast with Double Take.
Dark Stalker only effect's you while sneaking. So a nightblade would not have to cloak and could still move fast with concealed weapon and double take.
Once in combat a magicka nightblade will still move at the same speed if not faster.
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Also magicka nightblade's can easily counter snare's and piercing mark with efficient purge. The rest of the counter's are easy because you just need to break distance, which is where summon image does that for you.
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Magicka nightblade's are very very slippery target's. It's the regen which i find should go. Without the regen they would not be able to engage and just simply leave and perma cloak. You will eventually run out of cloak's after 15+ cloak's and possibly be found. A magicka nb should not be able to fail at ganking and perma cloak in a field till they are out of combat.Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on September 8, 2015 6:00PMPS4 NA DC2 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
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Isbilen✭✭✭✭✭I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
These counters will work on some Nightblades, but for Sonic the Nightblade they're mostly useless.1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Im already slotting stuff to counter all the things.
2 slots and 10% magicka is a ridiculous suggestion. Thats right I get 7% with inner light. -3% with magelight. Do the math.
Edited by Xeven on September 8, 2015 6:11PM0 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
They don't care if there is a counter or not,they just want to nerf cloak,and as Stamina nb with stamina regen nerf/roll dodge nerf/block nerf you can't just stop my magika to regen while im cloaked.
I don't get what people want from cloak to be useless?1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
They don't care if there is a counter or not,they just want to nerf cloak,and as Stamina nb with stamina regen nerf/roll dodge nerf/block nerf you can't just stop my magika to regen while im cloaked.
I don't get what people want from cloak to be useless?
Because being INVISIBLE in a PvP game is not sportsmanship. It's a stupid mechanic. Someone give these buttheads a shield or a heal so they will stfu.
Edited by Xeven on September 8, 2015 6:16PM3 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@killingspreeb16_ESO i'm half betting OP is a console player. Point being magicka nightblade's were god mode with proxi det and soul harvest/soul tether. Instant one shot's.
In Imperial City it's nothing like this so Magicka nightblade's are not so bad.PS4 NA DC1 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭I could make a guide on how to counter NB escape.
I could also make a guide how to counter every counter.
But since the counter requires another counter you use the counter -transition phase- as your time to strike.
Its a very simple process once learned
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Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
They don't care if there is a counter or not,they just want to nerf cloak,and as Stamina nb with stamina regen nerf/roll dodge nerf/block nerf you can't just stop my magika to regen while im cloaked.
I don't get what people want from cloak to be useless?
Because being INVISIBLE in a PvP game is not sportsmanship. It's a stupid mechanic. Someone give these buttheads a shield or a heal so they will stfu.
Ummm what? I consider bolting and placing mines while running around trees not good sportsmanship7 -
Sykotical✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
They don't care if there is a counter or not,they just want to nerf cloak,and as Stamina nb with stamina regen nerf/roll dodge nerf/block nerf you can't just stop my magika to regen while im cloaked.
I don't get what people want from cloak to be useless?
Because being INVISIBLE in a PvP game is not sportsmanship. It's a stupid mechanic. Someone give these buttheads a shield or a heal so they will stfu.
Ummm what? I consider bolting and placing mines while running around trees not good sportsmanship
There is nothing wrong with guerrilla tactics. However, steam rolling 1 guy with 20 is *** up.Son Azoth | Breton Nightblade
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Kerioko✭✭✭✭I run a magicka tank/healer NB in PVP. Unfortunately, I don't have the skill slots to waste on cloak because the skill is still so broken. With that said, I have no problem killing all these new magicka NB's that think cloak is the new "I win button". I find plenty of counters to cloak that seem to work fine, Caltrops with Radient Magelight is awesome and my preferred method compared to piercing mark as that can be cleansed with purge. Also, by pairing Radient Magelight with the new Reactive Armor set, their stealth attacks role off like wet noodles.
Next, on to what is required to effectively cloak and run away. I don't think a nerf is needed because you have to use almost an entire skill bar plus be a vampire to use cloak to its maximium effectiveness:
1. Purge - needed to cleanse piecing mark
2. Cloak - can't cloak if you don't have the skill slotted
3. Double Take - 4 sec speed buff
4. Concealed Weapon - for 25% stealth speed
You have to have all four of these skills slotted and be a level 10 vampire to escape with cloak against a decent PVP player, unlock dodge roll or bolt escape where you just need 1 button or 1 skill.
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Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
They don't care if there is a counter or not,they just want to nerf cloak,and as Stamina nb with stamina regen nerf/roll dodge nerf/block nerf you can't just stop my magika to regen while im cloaked.
I don't get what people want from cloak to be useless?
Because being INVISIBLE in a PvP game is not sportsmanship. It's a stupid mechanic. Someone give these buttheads a shield or a heal so they will stfu.
Ummm what? I consider bolting and placing mines while running around trees not good sportsmanship
I place the mines so that YOU will stop running around the tree. lol. =D
Could you please just stand still while I wreck your face?
Thanks for your cooperation.
Edited by Xeven on September 8, 2015 6:50PM0 -
SturgeHammer✭✭✭✭I haven't had enough time in the new patch nor the play skills needed to properly judge the balance of Cloak, but what I do know is that my Vet 2 argonian NB tank, without battle leveling and 5 heavy armor, can cloak forever outside of combat and as much as needed in combat. This is mostly due to the new magicka regen buff on refreshing shadows. I couldn't do that before this update and it was fine like that. If the cost of cloak increased it wouldn't hurt my feelings any.Edited by SturgeHammer on September 8, 2015 6:48PMFirst-in-Line - Swings-for-Lethal
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killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
They don't care if there is a counter or not,they just want to nerf cloak,and as Stamina nb with stamina regen nerf/roll dodge nerf/block nerf you can't just stop my magika to regen while im cloaked.
I don't get what people want from cloak to be useless?
Because being INVISIBLE in a PvP game is not sportsmanship. It's a stupid mechanic. Someone give these buttheads a shield or a heal so they will stfu.
No thanks keep shield on your sorc(if i wanted to play a melee character without stealth i was playing a templar),and cloak have many counter try one of them.
But no better complain on the forum because it's "unfair"lol ok...the hate for the stealth class is always over 9999!
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killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭SturgeHammer wrote: »I haven't had enough time in the new patch nor the play skills needed to properly judge the balance of Cloak, but what I do know is that my Vet 2 argonian NB tank, without battle leveling and 5 heavy armor, can cloak forever outside of combat and as much as needed in combat. This is mostly due to the new magicka regen buff on refreshing shadows. I couldn't do that before this update and it was fine like that. If the cost of cloak increased it wouldn't hurt my feelings any.
As stamina NB i can't cloak more than 3 time in a row at full mana so...just buff flare and magelight1 -
Araxleon✭✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
They don't care if there is a counter or not,they just want to nerf cloak,and as Stamina nb with stamina regen nerf/roll dodge nerf/block nerf you can't just stop my magika to regen while im cloaked.
I don't get what people want from cloak to be useless?
Because being INVISIBLE in a PvP game is not sportsmanship. It's a stupid mechanic. Someone give these buttheads a shield or a heal so they will stfu.
Ummm what? I consider bolting and placing mines while running around trees not good sportsmanship
I place the mines so that YOU will stop running around the tree. lol. =D
Could you please just stand still while I wreck your face?
Thanks for your cooperation.
Sorry I dont speak bubble,
Maybe next time ill slot reflect with my cloak, you could use a surprise frag to the face.3 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@killingspreeb16_ESO i'm half betting OP is a console player. Point being magicka nightblade's were god mode with proxi det and soul harvest/soul tether. Instant one shot's.
In Imperial City it's nothing like this so Magicka nightblade's are not so bad.
dunno in 1.6 if im not *** Magika NB was bad.0 -
Woman✭✭✭There are sooo many counters ? Is it OP because you refuse to fit a counter into your build?
Cloak is a major skill for NB defense unless we get a damage shield otherwise nerfing cloak Kills magicka NB.
Preach.
NB's have no burst heals, no shields, little passives to mitigate damage and rely on cloak for survivability completely. Is the ability overpowered? For sure, but it has to be. I wouldn't mind a nerf to cloak if NB shadow line got better passives and some sort of shield to encourage NB tanking- but as for now, it's an ability that's required for a NB to be competitive. I understand that it seems ridiculous to non-NB's but it's because you guys don't realize how squishy NBs really are and how *** our passives are in comparison. Plus, anyone can have Mist and it's kinda more OP now =D3 -
FlounderOG✭✭✭If somebody takes away the regen on my magica nb cloak, I'm going to switch back to my stamina build.
Literally the only thing magicka nightblades have going for us.
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Merlight✭✭✭✭✭I think his proposal was to remove speed while cloaked. You could still have your cloak.
As much as I hate permacloaking pussyblades, I think this proposal equals removing cloak from the game. It's overkill.EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
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Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its crazy NBs can cloak time after time without a single penalty, even after they're uncloaked by aoe dmg they can simply cloak again and run away. This completely removes aoe dmg as an effective way to counter cloak. Slotting Radiant Mage Light is a huge disadvantage because it takes up 2/10 skill slots.
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Heathenpride✭✭✭It's as simple as this: Some people know how to effectively deal with NB's and some don't.
I have a vet 7 NB, stam.
I have been butchered by lower level characters and higher levels, on the flip side there's been more than a few V14's that I can simply destroy, and have done so.
Instead of crying about how bad it is that you can't see a NB how about using the many methods available to deal with them?
Also, you can't counter all the other classes with your class! This game is diverse and one class is not always going to dominate another, there must be balance.
As a NB with only one toon I can honestly say that it feels balanced to me, honestly. If anything we are simply too squishy as a class but I will take as the stealth aspect is what makes it intriguing for me.
Bring on the hate, probably inevitable, but that's my unbiased opinion from playing only a NB since console release. Keen to see what the new DLC brings Looking for a good NA PS4 guild that offers a bit of everything? New to the game and lost? Need some guidance and help?
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Baronh2o✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »I kinda feel theres already a viable amount of counters to cloak, ppl just have to figure them out and actually slot/use them.
They don't care if there is a counter or not,they just want to nerf cloak,and as Stamina nb with stamina regen nerf/roll dodge nerf/block nerf you can't just stop my magika to regen while im cloaked.
I don't get what people want from cloak to be useless?
Because being INVISIBLE in a PvP game is not sportsmanship. It's a stupid mechanic. Someone give these buttheads a shield or a heal so they will stfu.
Because in history there were no things as assassins? And before you tell me that historical assassins couldn't be completely invisible...remember this is a fantasy game where other classes grow wings, heal with prayers, and shoot elements from their finger tips.
So with being a FANTASY game, invisibility is justified if you also account for the fact that NBs are supposed to be assassins and get the drop on an opponent."Not all who wander are lost." - Tolkien0 -
willymchilybily✭✭✭✭As a stamina DK main on ps4 i haven't unlocked many of the counters. Both magicka and stamina nb's are effective at killing me if they know the class and don't try to snipe spam me (even as stamina I can still reflect an awful lot). But I don't see them as being too powerful they are a lot less scary if I'm popping my immovable regularly, if they don't stun burst me down I can turn the tables quickly.
And I'm pretty newbie to the pvp. I'm suprised so many are having problems with the cloak. I also have a low VR stamina NB and I think without the cloak ability being how it is the class would be pretty terrible. I don't think all magicka regen should stop when stealthed (crouched) as it already costs stamina to move around when stealthed and using cloak requires a lot of other abilities to compliment it like others have said, else it isn't actually effective. But I am still on 1.6 maybe my views will change after the update
I can also see it being nigh impossible for a magicka class without an anti cloak, if I didn't spam immovable and have plenty of break free capacity the onslaught of stuns and fears and cc when combined with cloaks would easily kill me without me having a chance to counter effectively, so I can see why the cloak gets so many nerf threads if people aren't slotting counters, I'll have to go back to magicka DK in 2.1 with Mage light to see how I feel then and give a balanced viewEdited by willymchilybily on September 11, 2015 12:20AMPSN - WarpPigeon - Guild: TheSyndicate - EU, Ebonheart PactDragon Knight [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Magicka] - 720 - Flawless ConquerorTemplar [Magicka] - 720 - StormproofDragon Knight [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofNight Blade [Stamina] - 720 - StormproofSorcerer [Stamina] - 7200 -
eNumbra✭✭✭✭✭Because being INVISIBLE in a PvP game is not sportsmanship.
Nightblades are the stealthy class.
The devs designed it that way.
It's working (mostly) within the confines of how it was designed.
If you think there's sportsmanship in war, you're the kind of person who loses wars.
This post of yours proves you're just whining.5
