Werewolf's Journal: The Imperial City

Chrlynsch · September 2015

Let me start off by thanking @ZOS despite what many people say they do tend to listen to their community. Though changes do take some time they do come, and most of the time with the overall health of the game in mind. So before we talk about where werewolf is let's take a look at how far werewolf has come.

-900 ultimate cost (300 after morph)
-2 abilities (5 now)
-No sprint animation (four legged sprint animation)
-Small armor increase (10000 increased spell resistance and armor)
-Interuptable transformation (immune to damage/cc during transformation)
-Interuptable devour (Hard CC only)
-Extremely bad stuck pounce animation (still happens less frequent)
-Unable to synergize abilities (Synergize me captain)
-Unable to CC break (fixed)
-Hard to maintain form (bloodrage)
-50% increased poison damage (down to 25%)
-Long transformation animation (shortened to form animation... thank you!)
-Double ultimate tap cancel (Fixed)

Werewolves have come a long way since the beginning. Though there are a few tweeks that need to happen to get werewolf right to the sweet spot. @ZOS has made it clear that we probably won't see any form of toggle werewolf form (sorry role players), so with that in mind let's take a look at some of the weaker points to werewolf current state and possible solutions!

1. The Ultimate Cost: 300 Ultimate is just too high, it takes around 100 seconds of combat time in order to transform. Back at the end of 1.5 we had similar cost though bloodrage used to grant us 5 ultimate every 3 sec. When 1.6 ultimate generation came out, werewolf took an extra nerf to time to transformation when they stripped this passive. Personally I think the werewolf ultimate should be closer to 150 Ultimate and the salvation set should be increased to 50% decreased werewolf. Bring werewolf focused builds to around 60-75 ultimate cost depending on class. Heck I'm sure most of us would settle for 200, or an extra 25 reduced cost of werewolf per packleader/ beserker rank.

2. The Timer: While it is easier for werewolf stay in form while in combat thanks to bloodrage it still has a long devour animation that kills the overall feeling of the werewolf/ fast paced nature of the game itself. The devour mechanic should be more of a combat oriented ability. Drop the devour time down to 1 second and please get rid of the cool down. The heal from it is around 4000 not game breaking and is limited to and kept in check by the fast disappearing corpses around you. Repetince provides an aoe version of this ability.

3. Cost of abilities: Frankly the cost of Werewolf abilities are just too dang high, and simply werewolf ability cost needs to be dropped at least 20% across the board. Especially with the changes to roll dodge and block. Stamina is gone way too fast. We've already had to slot and use the ultimate giving up any ultimate generated in form. Taxation without representation, or really, paying twice for the ultimate form, once for high costing ultimate, twice with high costing abilities.

4. The werewolf heavy attack animation could be sped up just a little bit, maybe it is time to retire the werewolf hug animation completely. I love the idea of a channel heavy attack similar the resto staff, but a series of fast swipes. So damage is immediate and isn't super telegraphed saying *BIG DAMAGE INCOMING BLOCK OR ROLL DODGE SOON* though this isn't that pressing because howl clipped heavy attacks are pretty brutal.

5. Make added werewolf stamina regeneration come from devourgaining 30 min buff. The people using werewolf for werewolf will like this. Making us slot both werewolf transformations in order to have stamina recovery is a little much. Heck most Werewolves would be cool with %10 Increase to health recovery and Stamina recovery.

Docmandu · September 2015

Want to add, sometimes it's impossible to visually see that you are stunned in WW form.

danno8 · September 2015

For 1+2:

They can keep the ultimate cost where it is, but I believe 100% that in order for WW to viable the timer needs to stop completely while you are in combat. If you fall out of combat, the timer begins to countdown, requiring you to feed or just get in combat again.

This eliminates the problem of having to feed in combat which is the biggest problem for WW. The "adds time whenever you are hit" passive can be changed to something else. Same with the other 'adds time" passives.

CP5 · September 2015

Very good write up here, I would add make the beserker visually different and there isn't much to add. The werewolf is close, but still these things would do a lot to make the transformation something people would generally want to use.

Chrlynsch · September 2015

danno8 wrote: »

For 1+2:

They can keep the ultimate cost where it is, but I believe 100% that in order for WW to viable the timer needs to stop completely while you are in combat. If you fall out of combat, the timer begins to countdown, requiring you to feed or just get in combat again.

This eliminates the problem of having to feed in combat which is the biggest problem for WW. The "adds time whenever you are hit" passive can be changed to something else. Same with the other 'adds time" passives.

While I agree that this would alleviate the issue with having to devour in combat, it wouldn't solve the problem of having all of your food dissapearing around you and in front of you while you are still fighting or devouring. Quick feeding while you go, speeding up devour animation is a great way to not only help you keep form in combat, but also provide an extra means of survival, giving werewolf combat more depth and survivability.

Alternatively, keep the channel and with a more interactive change.

Devour: restores 15% of your max health and stamina a every sec for 3 seconds also restores 10 sec to werewolf form every second (first tick is instant), activation of devour consumes the corpse, aka one time synergy per corpse (you have to decide to stay for the full duration or just take a quick snack).

This change would make feeding in combat more effective/beneficial for survivability and sustainability. If this change were in place you also wouldn't need to adjust the ability cost as we would have a way to offset the increased cost with increased sustain.

Troneon · September 2015

starkerealm · September 2015

Prothwata wrote: »

...it wouldn't solve the problem of having all of your food dissapearing around you and in front of you while you are still fighting or devouring.

Easy solution there, don't loot their corpses until after you've fed.

I know, it's not always an option. But it does help. When muscle memory doesn't conspire to screw me over.

CP5 · September 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

...it wouldn't solve the problem of having all of your food dissapearing around you and in front of you while you are still fighting or devouring.

Easy solution there, don't loot their corpses until after you've fed.

I know, it's not always an option. But it does help. When muscle memory doesn't conspire to screw me over.

"not always an option" This is what I had to do when I gained a full player level from 1 ww rampage, but it showed a clear problem. Corpses that you can't loot sometimes despawn about as fast as the devour animation runs, meaning if there is any delay between the target falling and you devouring then you'll get nothing, and that doesn't even involve pvp where other players can just instantly respawn.

Never been a fan of devour in combat anyway, I feel more like an ostrich than a werewolf sometimes.

Chrlynsch · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Very good write up here, I would add make the beserker visually different and there isn't much to add. The werewolf is close, but still these things would do a lot to make the transformation something people would generally want to use.

Once again I totally agree with you, they really just need to change beserker to black/red eyes with you while the increased bleed damage is ok, it's really not that much better than pack leader (even pack leader isn't that great). Seeing bleed doesn't work on many targets in the game.

While we are at it we could really mix up our werewolve ultimate and offer more then 2 morphs... crazy right?

Pack Leader: (White )Nearby werewolf heavy attacks increase timer by 4 sec non stacking / heavy attack and also gain 8% damage mitigation for 10 sec after roar.
Bezerker: (Brown) Increases bleed damage by 40%. immune to snares and slows for 10 seconds after using howl
Brute: (Grey) increased werewolf armor by 50% (aka 15000 total), pounce now taunts and applies major fracture for 15 secs (sorry no aoe taunt)
Lone wolf: (Redish brown) reduces sprint Cost by 50% for nearby friendly werewolves non stacking, Major expedition to all friendly werewolves for 10 sec after Hercine's heal
Beta: (Dark Brown) reduces cost of werewolf abilities by 10% to nearby werewolves non stacking, Hercine's heal now becomes a 11m aoe heal.

Also come up with a better passive for Call of the pack... it is so blah
- slow the timer down per werewolf
- or reduces werewolf ultimate cost per werewolf

CP5 · September 2015

Prothwata wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Very good write up here, I would add make the beserker visually different and there isn't much to add. The werewolf is close, but still these things would do a lot to make the transformation something people would generally want to use.

Once again I totally agree with you, they really just need to change beserker to black/red eyes with you while the increased bleed damage is ok, it's really not that much better than pack leader (even pack leader isn't that great). Seeing bleed doesn't work on many targets in the game.

While we are at it we could really mix up our werewolve ultimate and offer more then 2 morphs... crazy right?

Pack Leader: (White )Nearby werewolf heavy attacks increase timer by 4 sec non stacking / heavy attack and also gain 8% damage mitigation for 10 sec after roar.
Bezerker: (Brown) Increases bleed damage by 40%. immune to snares and slows for 10 seconds after using howl
Brute: (Grey) increased werewolf armor by 50% (aka 15000 total), pounce now taunts and applies major fracture for 15 secs (sorry no aoe taunt)
Lone wolf: (Redish brown) reduces sprint Cost by 50% for nearby friendly werewolves non stacking, Major expedition to all friendly werewolves for 10 sec after Hercine's heal
Beta: (Dark Brown) reduces cost of werewolf abilities by 10% to nearby werewolves non stacking, Hercine's heal now becomes a 11m aoe heal.

Also come up with a better passive for Call of the pack... it is so blah
- slow the timer down per werewolf
- or reduces werewolf ultimate cost per werewolf

Oh yah, that passive. It sounds so nice but in implementation it just fails.

Chrlynsch · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

...it wouldn't solve the problem of having all of your food dissapearing around you and in front of you while you are still fighting or devouring.

Easy solution there, don't loot their corpses until after you've fed.

I know, it's not always an option. But it does help. When muscle memory doesn't conspire to screw me over.

"not always an option" This is what I had to do when I gained a full player level from 1 ww rampage, but it showed a clear problem. Corpses that you can't loot sometimes despawn about as fast as the devour animation runs, meaning if there is any delay between the target falling and you devouring then you'll get nothing, and that doesn't even involve pvp where other players can just instantly respawn.

Never been a fan of devour in combat anyway, I feel more like an ostrich than a werewolf sometimes.

This is correct, werewolf duration really never is an issue in PVE other than being an annoyance:
- In pve you can take your time going in from corpse to corpse to feed on your unlooted fallen enemies waiting on your Devour cool down.
- In Imperial city player's corpses rez up almost immediately after death because respawn is usually just an earshot away. This is made a little less of a problem because there usually is something to fight or feed on npc-wise sitting around (some lootable as you suggested).
- But in Cyrodiil itself we run into the worst of both worlds. Not only is it hard to get a feed off on player characters, but pvp npc drop no loot, meaning these guys start dissapearing within seconds of you killing them, @ZOS_RichLambert also removed all forms of critters from Cyrodiil, in order to try and lessen lag.

I feel like a shorter devour animation, or instant gratification/ invest feeding system could go a long way in making werewolf more viable and overall just more fun for all werewolves pvp and pve. Sorry RP no perma wolf for you

CP5 · September 2015

Prothwata wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

...it wouldn't solve the problem of having all of your food dissapearing around you and in front of you while you are still fighting or devouring.

Easy solution there, don't loot their corpses until after you've fed.

I know, it's not always an option. But it does help. When muscle memory doesn't conspire to screw me over.

"not always an option" This is what I had to do when I gained a full player level from 1 ww rampage, but it showed a clear problem. Corpses that you can't loot sometimes despawn about as fast as the devour animation runs, meaning if there is any delay between the target falling and you devouring then you'll get nothing, and that doesn't even involve pvp where other players can just instantly respawn.

Never been a fan of devour in combat anyway, I feel more like an ostrich than a werewolf sometimes.

This is correct, werewolf duration really never is an issue in PVE other than being an annoyance:
- In pve you can take your time going in from corpse to corpse to feed on your unlooted fallen enemies waiting on your Devour cool down.
- In Imperial city player's corpses rez up almost immediately after death because respawn is usually just an earshot away. This is made a little less of a problem because there usually is something to fight or feed on npc-wise sitting around (some lootable as you suggested).
- But in Cyrodiil itself we run into the worst of both worlds. Not only is it hard to get a feed off on player characters, but pvp npc drop no loot, meaning these guys start dissapearing within seconds of you killing them, @ZOS_RichLambert also removed all forms of critters from Cyrodiil, in order to try and lessen lag.

I feel like a shorter devour animation, or instant gratification/ invest feeding system could go a long way in making werewolf more viable and overall just more fun for all werewolves pvp and pve. Sorry RP no perma wolf for you

I would love an alternative to the slow, delicate devour animation, but instant feeding would just feel like i'm smashing my face into the ground all the to keep myself going.

Gilliamtherogue · September 2015

Nice write up, I've actually been toying more with WW in veteran ICP/WGT after seeing its potential in vDSA competitive play (got world record in 1.6 thanks to WW). There are a few major problems with WW atm that prevent it from becoming more versatile in terms of when you're able to use it in end game PvE.

Right now it's only really good for short fights that only take a minute or so, or have enough adds for a templar to repentance. The inability to synergize shards and other abilities for the undaunted passive, make the high cost of skills truly hinder werewolves. Even with 15.8% cost reduction from CP, and 5/7 medium armor, howl of agony costs a staggering 2587 stamina for me. The stamina return on heavy attacks is nice, but still not enough to allow a sustainable rotation to happen. If we could synergize shards however, a lot of resource management issues would diminish.

The next problem is timer sustainability, which is definitely helped by bloodrage. However, in vWGT/ICP, many damage sources can spell disaster if you move into harms way to add a few seconds to your timer. Boss battles are also extremely scary, since most of their non auto attacks are one shot capable. A pure single target fight also eliminates the ability to devour corpses to extend timers, meaning you probably won't even be able to expend your stamina before you fall out. Not to mention that devour is extremely DPS hindering, as you are forced to stop all damage capabilities aside from Claws of Anguish/Life's DoT while you stop for at least 5 seconds to step away and eat something.

The best solution for all cases in terms of devour would to be to make the timer refill instant. The second you synergize, you get your added bonuses and you can cancel your animation and go back to doing what you need to do. It preserves the "immersive" aspect of it as well, as players could still ride out the animation to see their character rip apart the flesh of their enemy, and it would still require player interaction to gain its benefits. There are a few more answers to it though, such as making devour target bound rather than corpse bound, so it could be casted on a living target such as a boss or high health mob, giving purpose to werewolf in single target fights. It would need to apply minimal damage if it was on a cast timer though, say over 3 seconds you latch onto your target and begin to gnaw on their flesh, dealing damage that to of light attacks.

While werewolves have indeed come a long way, there's still a lot to be done to their kit to make them feel truly impactful. Prior to "1.7/2.0" they were used for free stamina regen and possibly ult regen on tanks, but never utilized the actual werewolf aspect of being inflicted with Lycanthropy. If Zenimax has any interest in making werewolf a true consideration akin to how vampires are in PvP, then they need to take a more detailed look at the issues mentioned in this thread and tackle them. Here's to hoping they listen!

Chrlynsch · September 2015

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Nice write up, I've actually been toying more with WW in veteran ICP/WGT after seeing its potential in vDSA competitive play (got world record in 1.6 thanks to WW). There are a few major problems with WW atm that prevent it from becoming more versatile in terms of when you're able to use it in end game PvE.

Right now it's only really good for short fights that only take a minute or so, or have enough adds for a templar to repentance. The inability to synergize shards and other abilities for the undaunted passive, make the high cost of skills truly hinder werewolves. Even with 15.8% cost reduction from CP, and 5/7 medium armor, howl of agony costs a staggering 2587 stamina for me. The stamina return on heavy attacks is nice, but still not enough to allow a sustainable rotation to happen. If we could synergize shards however, a lot of resource management issues would diminish.

The next problem is timer sustainability, which is definitely helped by bloodrage. However, in vWGT/ICP, many damage sources can spell disaster if you move into harms way to add a few seconds to your timer. Boss battles are also extremely scary, since most of their non auto attacks are one shot capable. A pure single target fight also eliminates the ability to devour corpses to extend timers, meaning you probably won't even be able to expend your stamina before you fall out. Not to mention that devour is extremely DPS hindering, as you are forced to stop all damage capabilities aside from Claws of Anguish/Life's DoT while you stop for at least 5 seconds to step away and eat something.

The best solution for all cases in terms of devour would to be to make the timer refill instant. The second you synergize, you get your added bonuses and you can cancel your animation and go back to doing what you need to do. It preserves the "immersive" aspect of it as well, as players could still ride out the animation to see their character rip apart the flesh of their enemy, and it would still require player interaction to gain its benefits. There are a few more answers to it though, such as making devour target bound rather than corpse bound, so it could be casted on a living target such as a boss or high health mob, giving purpose to werewolf in single target fights. It would need to apply minimal damage if it was on a cast timer though, say over 3 seconds you latch onto your target and begin to gnaw on their flesh, dealing damage that to of light attacks.

While werewolves have indeed come a long way, there's still a lot to be done to their kit to make them feel truly impactful. Prior to "1.7/2.0" they were used for free stamina regen and possibly ult regen on tanks, but never utilized the actual werewolf aspect of being inflicted with Lycanthropy. If Zenimax has any interest in making werewolf a true consideration akin to how vampires are in PvP, then they need to take a more detailed look at the issues mentioned in this thread and tackle them. Here's to hoping they listen!

Some of great points on pve and synergies, I truely don't pve as much as I used to and sometimes miss pointing out some of these areas. While I would love to see blood rage change from increase time when you take damage, to increase time when you do damage. Rewarding positive actions instead of negative makes more sense, as you can apply bleeds and ticks and essentially won't run out of time. Instead of me currently looking for caltrops to stand in.

Chrlynsch · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

...it wouldn't solve the problem of having all of your food dissapearing around you and in front of you while you are still fighting or devouring.

Easy solution there, don't loot their corpses until after you've fed.

I know, it's not always an option. But it does help. When muscle memory doesn't conspire to screw me over.

"not always an option" This is what I had to do when I gained a full player level from 1 ww rampage, but it showed a clear problem. Corpses that you can't loot sometimes despawn about as fast as the devour animation runs, meaning if there is any delay between the target falling and you devouring then you'll get nothing, and that doesn't even involve pvp where other players can just instantly respawn.

Never been a fan of devour in combat anyway, I feel more like an ostrich than a werewolf sometimes.

This is correct, werewolf duration really never is an issue in PVE other than being an annoyance:
- In pve you can take your time going in from corpse to corpse to feed on your unlooted fallen enemies waiting on your Devour cool down.
- In Imperial city player's corpses rez up almost immediately after death because respawn is usually just an earshot away. This is made a little less of a problem because there usually is something to fight or feed on npc-wise sitting around (some lootable as you suggested).
- But in Cyrodiil itself we run into the worst of both worlds. Not only is it hard to get a feed off on player characters, but pvp npc drop no loot, meaning these guys start dissapearing within seconds of you killing them, @ZOS_RichLambert also removed all forms of critters from Cyrodiil, in order to try and lessen lag.

I feel like a shorter devour animation, or instant gratification/ invest feeding system could go a long way in making werewolf more viable and overall just more fun for all werewolves pvp and pve. Sorry RP no perma wolf for you

I would love an alternative to the slow, delicate devour animation, but instant feeding would just feel like i'm smashing my face into the ground all the to keep myself going.

This is why I like the idea of a channeled devour, like it is now... but with rapid ticks to both time, stam, and health. You can take a nibble in combat and it won't kill your dps and get a little something, or you can feast topping off resources including your timer.

I really like the idea of spiders devour channel, where the become hard to dps down because the heal rate is so fast, and that you need to interupt them/ hard cc or bash.

Ahzek · September 2015

I actualy think WW is in a pretty good spot of small scale PvP balance, like we have in IC. Most of the time i see myself fighting the odds I can fall back to my WW form and rip trough my unprepared enemies. Even if i die, taking down one or two (#pvescrubs xD ) opponents is possible, when i can strike quickly enough.

Thus i dont think that WW should get any buff to WW abilities, especially not in the sustain aspect. Since WW has such efficient means to take down opponents a buff to sustain - which can be difficult at times, but not too big of an issue with enough stam regen- would push it over the top.

I really like the proposals for the devour mechanic though. In actual fights its pretty much useless and hardly worth it. Neither for the heal, since you take damage during the time you are undefended, nor for the duration oncrease, since WW usually only runs out after combat ends and bloodrage doesnt trigger anymore.

Another issue id like to add is the way the WW bar functions regarding certain passives. As a stamina sorc i actually loose 20% stam regen from changing to WW form, since i cant slot any daedric summoning passives there. A similar problem exists for NB WWs or with abilities like expert hunter. I'd like my WW bar to keep all passive boni from my main bar from which the ult was cast, just so i dont feel like i loose out on something upon transformation.

CP5 · September 2015

Ahzek wrote: »

I actualy think WW is in a pretty good spot of small scale PvP balance, like we have in IC. Most of the time i see myself fighting the odds I can fall back to my WW form and rip trough my unprepared enemies. Even if i die, taking down one or two (#pvescrubs xD ) opponents is possible, when i can strike quickly enough.

Thus i dont think that WW should get any buff to WW abilities, especially not in the sustain aspect. Since WW has such efficient means to take down opponents a buff to sustain - which can be difficult at times, but not too big of an issue with enough stam regen- would push it over the top.

I really like the proposals for the devour mechanic though. In actual fights its pretty much useless and hardly worth it. Neither for the heal, since you take damage during the time you are undefended, nor for the duration oncrease, since WW usually only runs out after combat ends and bloodrage doesnt trigger anymore.

Another issue id like to add is the way the WW bar functions regarding certain passives. As a stamina sorc i actually loose 20% stam regen from changing to WW form, since i cant slot any daedric summoning passives there. A similar problem exists for NB WWs or with abilities like expert hunter. I'd like my WW bar to keep all passive boni from my main bar from which the ult was cast, just so i dont feel like i loose out on something upon transformation.

Have to agree with the slotted skill problem. I dislike passives that require X skill slotted to work and those passives are significantly less valuable than ones that are un-restricted.

RAGUNAnoOne · September 2015

one thing I hate is how if you kill only one enemy of a mob and devour it you cannot devour an enemy from that same mob even if you kill it later! this needs to be fixed please.

Chrlynsch · September 2015

Ahzek wrote: »

I actualy think WW is in a pretty good spot of small scale PvP balance, like we have in IC. Most of the time i see myself fighting the odds I can fall back to my WW form and rip trough my unprepared enemies. Even if i die, taking down one or two (#pvescrubs xD ) opponents is possible, when i can strike quickly enough.

Thus i dont think that WW should get any buff to WW abilities, especially not in the sustain aspect. Since WW has such efficient means to take down opponents a buff to sustain - which can be difficult at times, but not too big of an issue with enough stam regen- would push it over the top.

I really like the proposals for the devour mechanic though. In actual fights its pretty much useless and hardly worth it. Neither for the heal, since you take damage during the time you are undefended, nor for the duration oncrease, since WW usually only runs out after combat ends and bloodrage doesnt trigger anymore.

Another issue id like to add is the way the WW bar functions regarding certain passives. As a stamina sorc i actually loose 20% stam regen from changing to WW form, since i cant slot any daedric summoning passives there. A similar problem exists for NB WWs or with abilities like expert hunter. I'd like my WW bar to keep all passive boni from my main bar from which the ult was cast, just so i dont feel like i loose out on something upon transformation.

There really isn't reason that sustain should go down in werewolf form, no other ultimate in the game does this. You gain use of werewolf abilities and werewolf passives by sacrifing ultimate that you had / what you will have gained. You also lose almost all class passives and weapon passives during the transformation. While taking extra poison damage/fighters guild procs/passive damage increased.

Werewolf is the hardest thing to get right because not everyone agrees on what it should be.

-Some want a toogle skill line on par with human damage and survivability
-Some want a short term powerful Ultimate

Unfortunately we fall in the middle right now with more of the negatives then positives,
-It cost ultimate to activate
-Is just as strong as human form
-Less sustainability
-Less survivable
-Has a timer on it

Ahzek · September 2015

The reason WW should loose sustain is because it would be completely broken otherwise.

WW form is actually stronger than human form regarding pure damage output and takedown potential at short range ( as it should be). Fear and howl double CC is deadly if used in fast succession and with Claws of anguish even healers can fall to a well played WW.

Sustain wise WW is a bit lacking when fighting outnumbered, but 1v1 hircines rage usually is enough for the WW to keep applying pressure himself.

Alucardo · September 2015

Add some bonuses to a couple of passives:

Blood Rage
- When in combat, werewolf timer is stopped
- Increases time in werewolf form by 3 seconds every time you take damage. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Call of the Pack
- Increases the duration of nearby allies' Werewolf Transformation by 5%.
- Cost of Werewolf transformation is decreased by 33%

If the 33% reduction would stack with my 5pc Saviour's Hide set, that'd just be great

Edit: An alternative to my Call of the Pack suggestion would be to make Saviour's Hide set craftable. Vampires have a set, I think it would be nice if the Wolves got one too. And the 33% reduction is quite nice. That with my sorc passives lowers the cost to 156 from 300.

Chrlynsch · September 2015

Ahzek wrote: »

The reason WW should loose sustain is because it would be completely broken otherwise.

WW form is actually stronger than human form regarding pure damage output and takedown potential at short range ( as it should be). Fear and howl double CC is deadly if used in fast succession and with Claws of anguish even healers can fall to a well played WW.

Sustain wise WW is a bit lacking when fighting outnumbered, but 1v1 hircines rage usually is enough for the WW to keep applying pressure himself.

Show me the top WW dps build, and I'll show you 10 human forms that can do more sustain. For short term burst yes werewolf can hit hard, but any class comboing their burst rotation with a well time ultimate can and will do more burst. While trying to balance the game and classes for 1v1 is ideal, this is a AvAvA.

Chrlynsch · September 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Add some bonuses to a couple of passives:

Blood Rage
- When in combat, werewolf timer is stopped
- Increases time in werewolf form by 3 seconds every time you take damage. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Call of the Pack
- Increases the duration of nearby allies' Werewolf Transformation by 5%.
- Cost of Werewolf transformation is decreased by 33%

If the 33% reduction would stack with my 5pc Saviour's Hide set, that'd just be great

Edit: An alternative to my Call of the Pack suggestion would be to make Saviour's Hide set craftable. Vampires have a set, I think it would be nice if the Wolves got one too. And the 33% reduction is quite nice. That with my sorc passives lowers the cost to 156 from 300.

Craftible salvation set would be really nice.

I would love to see Hercine's Hunting ground as a public dungeon only accessible to werewolf characters, after you complete your initial quest. Here your timer doesn't go down, you can find your werewolf crafting table, totems for different werewolf buffs that take place of mundus stones, and unique bosses for packs to Hunt and take down.

Alucardo · September 2015

Prothwata wrote: »

I would love to see Hercine's Hunting ground as a public dungeon only accessible to werewolf characters, after you complete your initial quest. Here your timer doesn't go down, you can find your werewolf crafting table, totems for different werewolf buffs that take place of mundus stones, and unique bosses for packs to Hunt and take down.

Sounds like paradise. But yeah, I can't hope enough to see saviour's hide as a craftable set. It's perfect for Werewolves, takes care of one of the main issues people have (too long to generate ultimate), and it already exists in the game. Unfortunately at the moment it's very rare. Took me 2 months to track down 5pcs

draeganb16_ESO · September 2015

A great thanks to highlight the werewolf situation to ZOS. You really know what you are talking about because you seems to play werewolf since the beginning. We had very hard time since the launch in 2014...
Your idea of a resto staff's mechanic like heavy attack is great, it would fit better with this bloodthursty beast we play.

Prothwata wrote: »

1. The Ultimate Cost: 300 Ultimate is just too high, it takes around 100 seconds of combat time in order to transform. Back at the end of 1.5 we had similar cost though bloodrage used to grant us 5 ultimate every 3 sec. When 1.6 ultimate generation came out, werewolf took an extra nerf to time to transformation when they stripped this passive. Personally I think the werewolf ultimate should be closer to 150 Ultimate and the salvation set should be increased to 50% decreased werewolf. Bring werewolf focused builds to around 60-75 ultimate cost depending on class. Heck I'm sure most of us would settle for 200, or an extra 25 reduced cost of werewolf per packleader/ beserker rank.

This point is, according to me, the most disableling issue werewolf is encountering. Werewolf ultimate is actually the most expensive utlimate in the game but not the most effective. Why ?!

CP5 · September 2015

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

A great thanks to highlight the werewolf situation to ZOS. You really know what you are talking about because you seems to play werewolf since the beginning. We had very hard time since the launch in 2014...
Your idea of a resto staff's mechanic like heavy attack is great, it would fit better with this bloodthursty beast we play.

Prothwata wrote: »

1. The Ultimate Cost: 300 Ultimate is just too high, it takes around 100 seconds of combat time in order to transform. Back at the end of 1.5 we had similar cost though bloodrage used to grant us 5 ultimate every 3 sec. When 1.6 ultimate generation came out, werewolf took an extra nerf to time to transformation when they stripped this passive. Personally I think the werewolf ultimate should be closer to 150 Ultimate and the salvation set should be increased to 50% decreased werewolf. Bring werewolf focused builds to around 60-75 ultimate cost depending on class. Heck I'm sure most of us would settle for 200, or an extra 25 reduced cost of werewolf per packleader/ beserker rank.

This point is, according to me, the most disableling issue werewolf is encountering. Werewolf ultimate is actually the most expensive utlimate in the game but not the most effective. Why ?!

Remember when it was 1k in cost, when ultimate could reset to 0 and you had no self heal and couldn't cc break in form? Good times...

dsalter · September 2015

Prothwata wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Add some bonuses to a couple of passives:

Blood Rage
- When in combat, werewolf timer is stopped
- Increases time in werewolf form by 3 seconds every time you take damage. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Call of the Pack
- Increases the duration of nearby allies' Werewolf Transformation by 5%.
- Cost of Werewolf transformation is decreased by 33%

If the 33% reduction would stack with my 5pc Saviour's Hide set, that'd just be great

Edit: An alternative to my Call of the Pack suggestion would be to make Saviour's Hide set craftable. Vampires have a set, I think it would be nice if the Wolves got one too. And the 33% reduction is quite nice. That with my sorc passives lowers the cost to 156 from 300.

Craftible salvation set would be really nice.

I would love to see Hercine's Hunting ground as a public dungeon only accessible to werewolf characters, after you complete your initial quest. Here your timer doesn't go down, you can find your werewolf crafting table, totems for different werewolf buffs that take place of mundus stones, and unique bosses for packs to Hunt and take down.

i made a suggestion on this topic actually, i mean WW and vampires ARE a faction, so why cant they have crafting tables for making sets that upgrade their skills specifically? 2+4 piece was something i thought could upgrade moves, 5th increases the passives by 10%, or something like that, meaning vampires and werewolves could become more than a silly gimmik but rather an ACTUAL build in itself. since you can use mages guild or fighters guild as a build in itself, tho most wouldnt focus on them directly, they still none the less can work.

* http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200878/vampire-and-werewolf-specific-sets#latest *
incase your interested, if you think it sounds great try make it viral :P

Gilliamtherogue · September 2015

Prothwata wrote: »

Show me the top WW dps build, and I'll show you 10 human forms that can do more sustain. For short term burst yes werewolf can hit hard, but any class comboing their burst rotation with a well time ultimate can and will do more burst. While trying to balance the game and classes for 1v1 is ideal, this is a AvAvA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei8_R8a7AGc

In PvE WW dps is the highest burst no doubt about it. Anything under 1 minute and the only things that can contend are old Overload builds, and Stam nightblades with sneak attacks.

In PvP it's hard to say. If a WW can get you feared, no other build is going to do more damage. 30k howls are impossible to beat.

CP5 · September 2015

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Prothwata wrote: »

Show me the top WW dps build, and I'll show you 10 human forms that can do more sustain. For short term burst yes werewolf can hit hard, but any class comboing their burst rotation with a well time ultimate can and will do more burst. While trying to balance the game and classes for 1v1 is ideal, this is a AvAvA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei8_R8a7AGc

In PvE WW dps is the highest burst no doubt about it. Anything under 1 minute and the only things that can contend are old Overload builds, and Stam nightblades with sneak attacks.

In PvP it's hard to say. If a WW can get you feared, no other build is going to do more damage. 30k howls are impossible to beat.

Just want to point out whenever damage like that is shown for ww it doesn't seem to take into account situations where they are directly targeted and need to do things on their own like heal, cc break/block, move, exc. Its nice, but still giving up so much for the transformation in places where you don't have control of the situation are more often suicidal.

Ahzek · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Just want to point out whenever damage like that is shown for ww it doesn't seem to take into account situations where they are directly targeted and need to do things on their own like heal, cc break/block, move, exc. Its nice, but still giving up so much for the transformation in places where you don't have control of the situation are more often suicidal.

The same is true for every other DPS build.

Also, with the invulnerability during transforming I often find myself using WW just in the situations i am being pressured hard. Dodging meteors or other hard hits is quite a boon. Additionally for the first 30 or so seconds WW is an incredible beast when fighting the odds. Buffed up with standard buffs from before the transformation simply makes it an absolute powerhouse for a short period of time. Critsurge and Rally are the biggest gamechangers I have noticed here, but other, more subtle, buffs can be a great deal as well (evasion, lighning form, etc.).

Chrlynsch · September 2015

Yup definitely some good PVE damage here, not amazing not game breaking, but definitely respectable.

Pve werewolf really has no issues, as you control pulls/ time between fights. Snacking on loot carrying NPC.

Though in pvp, you don't have these luxuries, so something needs to change. We are already limited by our timer, high ultimate cost, and shouldn't be limited by high ability cost as well.