Leon119 wrote: »

Well obviously a 500 cp char will lose to one who has around 1k. That doesnt matter classes arent balanced. Cp and class balance should not be compared together. Take out cp from the equation and you will see that the classes are balanced. Each has clear strengths and weaknesses you can exploit

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
Having 500 CP or 0 CP, classes still aren't balanced. Even if they have the same amount of CP, there are classes that are way stronger than other classes, and there is nothing you can do against it.

I have solo'ed Trails on a Argonian Templar on the PTS with nothing but Blazing shield.
Was it because i was so strong and balanced... nope. I just stuffed enough CP into my account to make *** work and become OP. Didn't need much CP either, as i didn't even use half the *** you can put CP in.

Sad part is. The imbalance you see with 0 CP will return when people are getting extremely high numbers of CP.
Why? because after a certain point it doesn't matter anymore, as every one has all beneficial perks and thus can't overpower another player anymore with certain added bonuses other people didn't add points into.

Without the Champ system it would be a whole lot easier to balance this game, as you would have actual comparison of classes vs classes.
"Ow, [class X] is OP because he can almost 1 shot me while i can't even put a scratch on me. I'm VR16 and he was VR1! NERF PLEASE!!!!"
"Well... the owner of [Class X] has 1K CP from is alts, even though he was just VR1, while your main had just become VR16 and you only had 75 CP."
But, since we can't check that for ourselves we all just duck onto the forums and cry out for nerfs and buffs, without anyone ever facing the REAL imbalance problems, since everyone measures using their own standards.

Leon119 wrote: »

Well obviously a 500 cp char will lose to one who has around 1k. That doesnt matter classes arent balanced. Cp and class balance should not be compared together. Take out cp from the equation and you will see that the classes are balanced. Each has clear strengths and weaknesses you can exploit

What you are saying makes *no sense*.

All my chars on all 4 classes will have the same amount of CP available, so it's 100% equal.

Also, I wait with spending more than around 200 CP before testing different builds on the different classes, and all the classes still feels the same as 500 cp in regards to balance.

Also, there are many PC players with 400+ CP now, it's kind of normal on EU PVP atleast.

Most people have 400-500+ that I know of, and that I compete against. So a 500 CP (me) VS a 400-1000+ CP player (enemy) isn't really my benefit...But I have still beaten several 800+ CP players on all my classes multiple times in both sewers and cyrodiil after 1.7.

ChaosWotan wrote: »

Daykiin whispered me that magica nb is godmode in IC, but perhaps that is not true anymore?

My mana nb is enjoyable, but certainly not in the mode of a god.

My experience is that NBs fall short especially against good players of other classes. (good players makes your stealth useless).
But they are still fun to play, and they are not weak in any way (except for survival when cloak becomes useless from detect pots/skills).

I feel all classes really shine, and in a few different ways, which is the whole point of different classes.
NBs feels like the "gamblers" class if you will..you might get away and feel strong, or you might get seen by detect pots and die really fast.

Templars are more the opposite, they can't stealth, but they cause a freaking hell both offensive and defensive at the same time when played right and are hard to take down, and often in my own experience ends up winning against multiples.

Sorc Feels like a mix of those two, while DKs are also the tankish potential beast that you regret attacking.

I think, Templar heals need to be turned down by a lot. It's their main defense for themselves. But if there is one Templar in a small enemy group, it's as good as impossible to kill them. It's like the healing debuff doesn't even exist. They heal too much and too fast. I think Templar healing should be reduced by alot on other players in Cyrodiil.

It's almost impossible to win against several enemies if a Templar is with them.

Dracane wrote: »

I think, Templar heals need to be turned down by a lot. It's their main defense for themselves. But if there is one Templar in a small enemy group, it's as good as impossible to kill them. It's like the healing debuff doesn't even exist. They heal too much and too fast. I think Templar healing should be reduced by alot on other players in Cyrodiil.

It's almost impossible to win against several enemies if a Templar is with them.

Please don't ask for nerfs to Templars when any magicka build with a Resto Staff can do nearly the same thing.

Instead use a defile spell on the Templar and focus him down first. And if you are talking about 1 v X it should be very hard to take down a group with a dedicated healer.

Everyone always says "Templar is support! If you want DPS roll another class!", and now you want to... what exactly? Take away their support? Fine. Reduce heals in Cyro by another 20%, but increase all our DPS skills by 20% to compensate.

Dracane wrote: »

I think, Templar heals need to be turned down by a lot. It's their main defense for themselves. But if there is one Templar in a small enemy group, it's as good as impossible to kill them. It's like the healing debuff doesn't even exist. They heal too much and too fast. I think Templar healing should be reduced by alot on other players in Cyrodiil.

It's almost impossible to win against several enemies if a Templar is with them.

If a Templar player wants to focus on healing instead of hurting I think that is perfectly fine. Finally there's some balance that makes going completely heal-centric viable again in Cyrodiil/Imperial City. Please don't ask for that legitimate play-style to be taken away.

Truewan wrote: »

Wow a positive thread has appeared, praising the new patch more than the Adoring Fan praised you in Oblivion




*Waits for heads to explode*

Thank you for sticking his damn voice back in my head... it only took six years to get it out of my consciousness.

I'm a magic nb in heavy armor & don't seem to have much of a problem except fighting magic templars; either the fight never ends, i mess up (possible but not likely), I get zerged, or I just walk away.
Personally I feel like I can take on 2 or 3 people easily as long as there isn't a GOOD templar in the group.

monkeymystic wrote: »

On my templar I have yet to lose against a NB.

Swing on over to Chill and I'll change that for ya I have yet to lose to any templar including the reigning templar emperor :P~

And I'm not trying to be insulting here but if you are the same monkeymystic EP nightblade I used to fight all the time in that zerg I would have to take your PvP experiences with a grain of salt.

Ezareth wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

On my templar I have yet to lose against a NB.

Swing on over to Chill and I'll change that for ya I have yet to lose to any templar including the reigning templar emperor :P~

And I'm not trying to be insulting here but if you are the same monkeymystic EP nightblade I used to fight all the time in that zerg I would have to take your PvP experiences with a grain of salt.

None of my chars are named monkeymystic, so no (someone really named their char that?)
And I play EU, not NA.

In a 1v1 fight, if there isn't any lag spike, you can't kill me on my templar as a NB, not even if you have 1k+ CP. There simply isn't enough burst available if you are solo as a NB in 1.7.

But I have the tools to take you down in 1-2 hits + jesus beam, and good luck outhealing with vigor when you already have another 30%+ heal debuff on you.
And good luck cloaking when there is detect pot. The second you use cloak, you just spent 1 second too much, it ends up as your mistake in the fight, and you end up dead.
And when not using cloak? well, then you are basically a weaker version of me

Give it some time, and eventually someone might have found a templar build similar to mine and you will struggle hard as a NB, believe me. It's pretty anti-NB.

No offense to the emp templar, but if he's a reigning emp magicka templar and can't kill you, it's 100% lack of skill since it's very easy with the right rotation and build. For a stam templar, it requires more effort because they lack the heals and effective jesus beam of magicka specs of course.

Main reason for this is:

NBs lack self healing, but got cloak instead. Once cloak is taken away from detect pot, they are "naked". A stam NB have vigor, and maybe rally going. A Magicka NB has even less heals. Healing ward is much weaker now, and funnel health just won't help against decent burst dmg.
Any class with a heal debuff ability will make your NB even more naked, and you will lose the sustain fight in surviving. Now when you bring in the fact that templars currently also have very good burst dmg along with heal debuff, then you get stripped and are left with either option 1: cloak and die because they see you with detect. or 2: try to out dps, out heal and pray the templar is only average.

But if the templar is above average with a good build, the magicka templar *will* out dps you and out heal you by a large margin, and burst you down much faster than you no matter what.
If he gets you below 50%, you usually end up dead because of too much pressure that you can't out heal with the NB self healing/healing ward/vigor/rally, 30% heal debuff on you, and cloak being useless because of detect pot

I don't think the game is about 1v1, but if templars are better/good/great now, that's a good thing.

One of the better things about this update is bugs/exploits seem to be fixed, so not having to play with them is a massive improvement from a PvP perspective.

monkeymystic wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

I don't think the game is about 1v1, but if templars are better/good/great now, that's a good thing.

One of the better things about this update is bugs/exploits seem to be fixed, so not having to play with them is a massive improvement from a PvP perspective.

Yes, templars are in a very good state now, and it's a good thing like you say. ZOS has hopefully learned by now that instead of overnerfing things, rather waiting it out and see how it adapts is much better and it usually is not op after people adapt and find counters.

When they overnerfed DKs some time ago, they pretty much changed a class that was powerful into a class that became gimped, and I know several people who quit ESO completely because of the overnerf.

The fixes to exploits is very noticeable as well, and a breath of fresh air. The combination of Sorc being so op in 1.6, and certain players exploiting on top of that ruined pvp completely before.

Yeah, I guess I can agree... in 15 years when I've ground enough mats to make a set vr16 gear or tv stones One thing I think the power loss highlights is how much more important gear is than CP's so at least that argument has been put to bed, finally.

Dracane wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I think, Templar heals need to be turned down by a lot. It's their main defense for themselves. But if there is one Templar in a small enemy group, it's as good as impossible to kill them. It's like the healing debuff doesn't even exist. They heal too much and too fast. I think Templar healing should be reduced by alot on other players in Cyrodiil.

It's almost impossible to win against several enemies if a Templar is with them.

If a Templar player wants to focus on healing instead of hurting I think that is perfectly fine. Finally there's some balance that makes going completely heal-centric viable again in Cyrodiil/Imperial City. Please don't ask for that legitimate play-style to be taken away.

Has nothing to do with a playstyle. Seems like 1 instant Templar heal gets someone from 10% to 100% which is too much considering the most recent pvp changes. I just think Magicka heals are too strong in pvp at the moment.

It's fine for themselves. But broken in a group from my point of view and the increased TTk makes it as good as impossible to burst them down, even for someone like me who goes for 100% damage.

Well they could well go up that far if they have a low health pool to start with, maybe. But being a Templar myself, with a low health pool, I can tell you from extensive experience going from 10% to 100% is basically impossible.

@monkeymystic

"With 28k health, I can say you are wrong. Healing to more or less full hp from low hp with 1 breath of life crit in PVP? no problem."

To go from no health to full with 28,000 hp in PVP on a crit you'd have to have a base Breath of Life/Honor the Dead of like 15-18k. I do not believe you. Please provide proof of your 25,000+ crit heal in Imperial City.

monkeymystic wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I think, Templar heals need to be turned down by a lot. It's their main defense for themselves. But if there is one Templar in a small enemy group, it's as good as impossible to kill them. It's like the healing debuff doesn't even exist. They heal too much and too fast. I think Templar healing should be reduced by alot on other players in Cyrodiil.

It's almost impossible to win against several enemies if a Templar is with them.

If a Templar player wants to focus on healing instead of hurting I think that is perfectly fine. Finally there's some balance that makes going completely heal-centric viable again in Cyrodiil/Imperial City. Please don't ask for that legitimate play-style to be taken away.

Has nothing to do with a playstyle. Seems like 1 instant Templar heal gets someone from 10% to 100% which is too much considering the most recent pvp changes. I just think Magicka heals are too strong in pvp at the moment.

It's fine for themselves. But broken in a group from my point of view and the increased TTk makes it as good as impossible to burst them down, even for someone like me who goes for 100% damage.

Well they could well go up that far if they have a low health pool to start with, maybe. But being a Templar myself, with a low health pool, I can tell you from extensive experience going from 10% to 100% is basically impossible.

With 28k health, I can say you are wrong.

On my templar, with crit heal (55% crit chance), going from 10% health to full is easy in PvE, and I often go to full health from 10-15% in PVP as well.

Remember, as a templar you have a 30% healing buff on you pretty constant (atleast if you're build is worth anything) and with good gear, some CP put into healing and + crit heals, achieving high heal numbers as Templar isn't hard at all.

Healing to more or less full hp from low hp with 1 breath of life crit in PVP? no problem.

You talk like being the superpro, but i doubt most thing u are saying. Whats your char name as Temp? And how about some vids... like to see how you go from 10%-to 100%
And no NB could kill you??? Even NB with 800+CP?
Without some prove your a storyteller...