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Since when did this game become a grind fest?

Meshal
Meshal
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Hello,

First of all, i'd like to apologize if there are any grammatical mistakes, because English is not my first language.


i was really hesitant to start this thread, i wanted to post it since they announced IC but decided not to, but now i really have the urge to speak up after IC update.

About me, i bought this game in August 2014, and i've been playing non stop ever since. i have been ESO+ since that time and i think i only missed 1 month sub before it went B2P and continued as ESO+ until this moment i write this post (might not been ESO+ for couple of weeks i dont remember). Currently steam says i have spent 2314 hours into the game, So yeah i really like this game. I also have a youtube channel in my native language to introduce and explain the game mechanics for them, and the channel has been growing since i created it in early July of this year, even though it doesnt have a lot subs at the moment but it keeps growing .

before IC update, i had 3 v14s character, and 4 vet characters, their levels differ from character to another, i was planning to grind with to reach v14. after they announced that they will increase the level to v16, i was one of the people who were really angry about this news as they were announcing it and laughing about it on twitch! because they were promising us constantly they will remove it and then out of nowhere with their laughs said their going to increase it!

i was really considering leaving the game when they announced it, or just stop being ESO+ as i dont support them anymore and i've been really tired of defending them, but decided not to eventually, and waited to see what will happen next.

now IC, it is really great but grinding in this game increased!!!!

first let me explain the good stuff and mechanics currently in the game:

1- PLEDGES, which when you finish it u get rewarded with keys that might drop monster sets.
2- TRIALS, really good mechanics and fun to play and drop really good sets


now let me explain all the grinding needed right now in the game so that people who dont have IC yet can understand the situation:

1- XP GRIND- which is a lot of XP to last level. now with the new update, they have actually DECREASED the amount of xp gained from killing mobs except in dsa as it's the best place to grind at the moment, which they might even nerf it after reading this post. so yeah good luck getting to max level now.

2- CHAMPION SYSTEM- which you need to grind to get points to be good in pvp.

3- IC SHARDS- these were introduced in IC, which you need to grind mobs in IC. they will drop those shards and you need to collect 60 or 150, (depends on the type), to get a trophy which you might acquire a set from, and YES IT HAS RANDOM TRAITS TOO.



Now, i dont really mind pledges and trials and their mechanics for getting those sets, because you get them as reward for completing those. in fact i really like this mechanic!

but why the heck do we need to grind mobs to get sets???????????????????? why keep increasing the damn level so that we need to grind more????? why turning this game into a grind fest??? is it the only way of keeping players in the game??? trust me it's making us hate this damn game!!!!

Does this what creative team have come up with? grinding all the time as long as they keep playing? where the heck the fun in that? Do you really think that the game sucks so much that you must keep us busy grinding to play this game? havent you seen how many people still play this game? if it's bad we would have all stopped playing a long time ago! so why the heck are you ruining the game?


in the past, i really hated those people who use bots to grind xp, but now i really dont blame them. in fact i have been considering using one! i dont really care anymore of getting ban or getting my account suspended anymore if this is the direction their going for!

at this moment, let's say i wanted to do trials, or dungeons with the guild. i cant do that because i'm tired of grinding mobs!! and there are no other way of getting those new sets. YES, they have decreased the damage of our v14 sets so yea those sets are not as effective as before, and we are required to either buy those new sets for 500k gold (in guild stores) or by grinding mobs!! they actually ruined really good sets by increasing the vet levels and now i really dont know if i should use healer set on my healer, or footman on my tank, king slayer, vicious ophidian....etc!


i apologize if you disagree with me, it just my thoughts, because i dont really see myself playing this game in the future if they keep going in this direction.
  • Kammakazi
    Kammakazi
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    MMO's like this (others include Vindictus/Maplestory/Runescape/etc) always end up min/maxing that's why it's always grindy.

    Nerf drop rates and increase difficulty so that players play more... then rake in dat $$$

  • Gidorick
    Gidorick
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    Since the Buy-To-Play transition.
    What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
    That's right... Horse.
    Click HERE to discuss.

    Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!
  • Navaya
    Navaya
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    ESO is just becoming more and More about grinding. I guess they have a lack of imagination over there at Zenimax or something... Same with that they are making dps race bosses instead of a real and good mechanic.

    With the trophies they could make it so that we get to choose which set-item to get.
    Or that bosses have a chance of dropping a special token that can be turned in for the Set-item you want.

    Why they are making EVERYTHING random is beyond me. (Except for some pvp sets that is)

    I rather want to see a game were we are rewarded from our effort, not a game were we are reward by being lucky(as it is now).
  • Komma
    Komma
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    It doesnt bother me at all..

    First it takes less xp to get to vr16 than it did to get to vr14 in the pre IC. Games have started handing out lvls like candy over the years. Even the way it is now lvls are easily gained in this game.

    People just dont want to earn what they get. Its always a race to max lvl which is a shame. This game is fun lvling up.
    Kohma Kozzy-cr160-Stamblade
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    OTG
  • Meshal
    Meshal
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    Kammakazi wrote: »
    MMO's like this (others include Vindictus/Maplestory/Runescape/etc) always end up min/maxing that's why it's always grindy.

    Nerf drop rates and increase difficulty so that players play more... then rake in dat $$$

    well this is not Runescape or others, this is ESO. indeed, i would like to see a gameplay, not just killing mobs! i dont know but i feel like this game will be really bad if they keep doing the same thing. they're going to ruin the game completely.
    Gidorick wrote: »
    Since the Buy-To-Play transition.
    hmmmm ok!

    Navaya wrote: »
    ESO is just becoming more and More about grinding. I guess they have a lack of imagination over there at Zenimax or something... Same with that they are making dps race bosses instead of a real and good mechanic.

    With the trophies they could make it so that we get to choose which set-item to get.
    Or that bosses have a chance of dropping a special token that can be turned in for the Set-item you want.

    Why they are making EVERYTHING random is beyond me. (Except for some pvp sets that is)

    I rather want to see a game were we are rewarded from our effort, not a game were we are reward by being lucky(as it is now).
    INDEED, i agree completely in everything you said!

    Komma wrote: »
    It doesnt bother me at all..

    First it takes less xp to get to vr16 than it did to get to vr14 in the pre IC. Games have started handing out lvls like candy over the years. Even the way it is now lvls are easily gained in this game.

    People just dont want to earn what they get. Its always a race to max lvl which is a shame. This game is fun lvling up.


    hmm thats not true, what do you mean handing out levels? they kept nerfing every place over and over and you can see now why craglorn is one of the areas that nonone ever go there except for guild traders, vdsa, and trials and nothing else.

    ofcourse we will race, let me be more clear! with my first character, i finished all quests in ALL zones (except craglorn), so why would i wanna do the same with 2nd? i have 7 characters now, do you think you will do all quests all over again when you're planning to level 7 or 8 characters? that will take years lol :)
    Edited by Meshal on September 6, 2015 5:28PM
  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Gidorick wrote: »
    Since the Buy-To-Play transition.

    QFT.
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • sagitter
    sagitter
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    Grinding? have you ever played a real grinding korean mmo? i bet no lol.
  • NewBlacksmurf
    NewBlacksmurf
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    One misconception is that u get more CP's grinding
    U get at most 3 CP's per VR grinding but you can get 6 doing quests while enlightened. Not sure which is more efficient but just sharing some insight
    -PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
    ~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *501
  • krees28b14_ESO
    krees28b14_ESO
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    Why is it grindy... to keep you playing. Simple as that. They know that the second you get bored is when you leave and play another game. Many people do that anyways as content becomes boring to quickly. With a token system once you have your items you do not do the content again. Maybe to help a friend or guildie but eventually the content becomes boring and you leave anyways. They cannot create content fast enough for players. But another game will be released by another company providing you an entirely new experience.
  • Twilix01
    Twilix01
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    One misconception is that u get more CP's grinding
    U get at most 3 CP's per VR grinding but you can get 6 doing quests while enlightened. Not sure which is more efficient but just sharing some insight

    As far as leveling and vet ranks, I consider just running around completing the zone and it's quests is the most efficient (even though slow compared to grinding) way to do it. The main reason for this is skill points, dolmens, and lorebooks. If you only grind to 50 you miss a lot of potential to rank up your fighter's and mages' guild skill lines (Though you can go back for the lore books, dolmens won't give you the XP as much if you're over-leveled) and you miss skill points from quests, skyshards, and the public dungeons.
  • tordr86b16_ESO
    tordr86b16_ESO
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    Been a grind fest since release.
  • MrNevermore
    MrNevermore
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    It's the B2P model.

    Less money coming in than a sub-based game, so have to make the content last a lot longer. The harder it is to level and obtain new gear, the longer you'll spend doing it and the more time they have before they have to spend the money they don't particularly have investing in new content.
  • Meshal
    Meshal
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    Rune_Relic wrote: »
    Gidorick wrote: »
    Since the Buy-To-Play transition.

    QFT.

    I had to google that :expressionless: :P
    sagitter wrote: »
    Grinding? have you ever played a real grinding korean mmo? i bet no lol.

    this is not a korean mmo...

    One misconception is that u get more CP's grinding
    U get at most 3 CP's per VR grinding but you can get 6 doing quests while enlightened. Not sure which is more efficient but just sharing some insight

    with grinding and using xp potions, u get 2 cp points per potion! meaning 2cps each 50 minutes.


    Why is it grindy... to keep you playing. Simple as that. They know that the second you get bored is when you leave and play another game. Many people do that anyways as content becomes boring to quickly. With a token system once you have your items you do not do the content again. Maybe to help a friend or guildie but eventually the content becomes boring and you leave anyways. They cannot create content fast enough for players. But another game will be released by another company providing you an entirely new experience.

    thats what im saying, they dont need to do that! the game is already good and doesnt need more grinding to let us keep playing!


    Been a grind fest since release.
    not as much as it is now!


    It's the B2P model.

    Less money coming in than a sub-based game, so have to make the content last a lot longer. The harder it is to level and obtain new gear, the longer you'll spend doing it and the more time they have before they have to spend the money they don't particularly have investing in new content.


    yea but this hurts the game!!!
    Edited by Meshal on September 6, 2015 8:22PM
  • UltimaJoe777
    UltimaJoe777
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    Hate to break it to ya but most MMORPGs regardless of platform involve a large amount of grinding in some form or fashion.
    Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
    Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy
  • Kalfis
    Kalfis
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    Since launch.

    This game will continue to lose players if VR ranks are increased and more grinds are added.

    ZoE isn't showing any signs of stopping either of those yet.
  • kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
    kendellking_chaosb14_ESO
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    Why is it grindy... to keep you playing. Simple as that. They know that the second you get bored is when you leave and play another game. Many people do that anyways as content becomes boring to quickly. With a token system once you have your items you do not do the content again. Maybe to help a friend or guildie but eventually the content becomes boring and you leave anyways. They cannot create content fast enough for players. But another game will be released by another company providing you an entirely new experience.

    Unless you're me an accountant that did the math the work for VR16 gear for all toons. As I will just grind up my alts so I can play more roles I'm stopping all my gear at VR15 so I'm not going to be in the Imperial City grinding for mats or stones if the Imperial City get dry before Fallout 4 I will spend all my time on my second favorite series. Never thought I would not love an TES game but ZoS can work miracles.
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  • DovresMalven
    DovresMalven
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    One misconception is that u get more CP's grinding
    U get at most 3 CP's per VR grinding but you can get 6 doing quests while enlightened. Not sure which is more efficient but just sharing some insight

    In what areas?
    Dovres Malven
    - Aldmeri Dominion
  • DovresMalven
    DovresMalven
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    Kalfis wrote: »
    Since launch.

    This game will continue to lose players if VR ranks are increased and more grinds are added.

    ZoE isn't showing any signs of stopping either of those yet.

    One thing that could be a game changer, is changing the theme-park ride feel of questing. Some clever implementation of a battle leveling system, and some rewriting of the main quest that it takes you on a more interesting route through tamriel could really work for example. One thing I love about playing Skyrim, is that my characters can take drastically different routes on their adventures- and each playthrough becomes unique.
    Dovres Malven
    - Aldmeri Dominion
  • SeptimusDova
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    the day they created the concept. Grind + time= $$$MONEY$$$. Those cars and houses and boats and **'s aint gonna pay for themselves you know !!!!!
  • CavalierKing
    CavalierKing
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    What all MMOs have gotten wrong is the PvP part. PvP is the ONLY thing that keeps people coming back indefinitely. PvEers will always quit when they get to max level/gear/content. Trivially increasing the content and grind will not keep them around. Giving them substantive new content will, but that is very difficult to do on a regular basis. Instead, focus on giving Pvpers new, interesting gear to play around with (along with making PvP good), and you'll have your player base. DLC then can be mainly focused on PvE for those that get quickly bored. Adding new levels and gear that require grinding just pisses everybody off.
  • NewBlacksmurf
    NewBlacksmurf
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    One misconception is that u get more CP's grinding
    U get at most 3 CP's per VR grinding but you can get 6 doing quests while enlightened. Not sure which is more efficient but just sharing some insight

    In what areas?

    Riften mainly. Exp scrolls didn't exist when I was VR1-VR6
    -PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
    ~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *501
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    I hate grinding. It makes me feel like my brain is slowly liquefying and slowshing around in my skull...
    Lucky me, I don't have to...
    There's enough to do with the cyrodil dailies, now that most of the gankers are busy ganking in IC. The dwelves in Cyro are also good for expees for a clearing run, even without the mindless grinding tour (if cyrodil isn't overfilled again, that is...).
    For that matter, while IC is a awful gankfest, and you better expect others to go grab your stones any time they get a chance, it IS good expees... and between the tough mobs and the PvPeople, it never really gets boring either...

    C-points... eh. I grab one of those per day slowly levelling my alts... and sometimes a second when I do XP-heavy stuff on my mains after.275 and counting, without ever putting any extra effort into it... sure, some people have way more, but what do I care, much of the advantage is in the first 300 points anyhow thanks to ever diminishing returns...

    IC gear? Fu... uhm... forget that. No expectations there means no dissappointment, since getting IC stuff is running a hamster wheel anyhow. But slowly and steadily one can get somewhere there too, even though I expect Orsinium will be out before I make it there. But so what? As long as my stuff is good enough to get me through the game without too much difficulty, I don't really need to have "the best" gear right away... and it'll come in time.

    All in all... I suppose one can look at the game and see it as "grinding". Me, i choose to look at it and see it as a fun game, with some neat rewards now and then. I think I am feeling better seeing things my way... ;)
  • Funkopotamus
    Funkopotamus
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    The grinding in ESO is not that bad!

    The real problem is that everyone wants the BEST END GAME item/stats possible...
    And guess what..... If you do..... Then yes you will have to work for it..

    MY GOD what is wrong with you people?

    You can only have two systems in a MMO that separate end game from the rest of the game.

    A] Random gear drops. Like WoW. and other gear progression games.
    B] Grind and work towards a definite end with choice of gear/stats..

    Pick one.
    A] has been done to many times and most people will cry about it as we see with the limited random drops in ESO.
    B] I like B and do not understand the "I want it now self entitlement" people that play MMO's these days.
    Edited by Funkopotamus on September 6, 2015 10:50PM
    Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington
  • Sindarious
    Why is it grindy... to keep you playing. Simple as that. They know that the second you get bored is when you leave and play another game. Many people do that anyways as content becomes boring to quickly. With a token system once you have your items you do not do the content again. Maybe to help a friend or guildie but eventually the content becomes boring and you leave anyways. They cannot create content fast enough for players. But another game will be released by another company providing you an entirely new experience.

    Unless you're me an accountant that did the math the work for VR16 gear for all toons. As I will just grind up my alts so I can play more roles I'm stopping all my gear at VR15 so I'm not going to be in the Imperial City grinding for mats or stones if the Imperial City get dry before Fallout 4 I will spend all my time on my second favorite series. Never thought I would not love an TES game but ZoS can work miracles.

    It's not a real TES game and it's not a real MMO, they tried to mash together two very different worlds and only ended up with a mediocre version of both. That is the real problem here.
  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    This game was always a grind fest like all MMOs, do you think you should get gear right off the bat and do nothing? What else will you do in the game if you have all your gear?

    It's part of the whole character progression style.
    #MOREORBS
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