Why Templars are the worst designed class in ESO

Taself · September 2015

I made a Templar for the first time about two months ago (high elf), before the death of my gaming PC :P Usually play Bosmer NB stam builds, rarely if ever go magica. The Templar is being speced to be a healer surprise surprise

but I found it an easy built so keep alive, way easier than my NB generally was. While yes there are issues I found the Temp to be an easy character to play. Finally got a new games machine and am downloading ESO and one of the first things I'll be doing is making another Templar to play in AD, old one was on DC. And I'm looking forward to it

eternalsnows · September 2015

I can't comment about PvP or endgame stuff, but I really enjoyed solo leveling my Templar (at VR1 now). I'm currently doing Alik'r and my power level is high enough to make all the VR4 enemies mostly trivial. I also have lower level Dragon Knight and Nightblade characters, but I always keep coming back to the Templar because I like the playstyle so much.

Dromede · September 2015

You know what's really funny? My original main was a sorc. Loved her till i had to roll a healer templar for pledges needs. Then my templar became my main both for healing and dps. She wasn't excellent - but she was consistent, and still is. Of course, i need different sets for healing/dps buffs, skill rotation is a whole different story, but she's doing good. Before the last patch, vDsa was not a problem, and i was a dps on those successful runs.

On the other hand, my sorc is miserable. After Surge nerf, she's helpless. She does have good burst aoe and excellent finisher that replenishes magicka, but otherwise all of my stats and dps except for spell damage are lower than my templar's.

Bottom line - it might not be the class, it might be the playstyle. I want to have a dps skill that heals me back, guaranteed. That's what surge buff used to be, now it's not as much. That's what puncturing sweep is though. And as much as i know that sorcs are all about stacking shields, i just don't do it, because i 'm not used to it anymore. Based on that, i could state that sorcs are glass cannons with no reliable heals or health sustain, and it would be completely true, but only for my perspective and playstyle.

Lol. Hope it makes sense in some way)

Nifty2g · September 2015

Vatter wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

lol why did you remake this topic from pts?
all i'm reading is l2p issues

spoken like a true troll who has never played a templar and does nothing but go thread to thread trying to flame for insightfuls, agrees and awesomes. kinda pathetic actually.

I moved this thread due to the update. it is no longer on pts. not sure if your as sharp as cotton or simply don't have the capacity for logical thinking.

Yeah you're right, never played a templar. Ever.
Also give me your likes please, it means a lot to me

ontheleftcoast · September 2015

Vatter wrote: »

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

I honestly thought this was going be a rant on how OP Templars are. I have both a magicka and stamina Templar and they're both stupid powerful in PvE. At VR3 the magicka Templar was soloing mobs in UC and taking down the outdoor bosses like the Queen wasp or the big scorpion by DSA. The Stamplar took a little more work but now he can easily do the same. I'll readily admit my builds/playstyle aren't for everyone but I'm having a blast with them.

now the question is......have you taken your builds to Imperial city yet

Even though I disagree with you on many points I think you do have some valid criticism for the class. Note that in PvE I'm seldom grouped so I don't get dinged by the "Heal others not yourself" design. That's just effing stupid and you're right to point it out.

And every class should have some decent way to escape. Sometimes the only right thing to do in a battle is, to quote Python, "RUN AWAY!".

I'm letting the flustercluck that's IC calm down a bit before I head there with any of my builds. When I do take my Templars there I'll let you know how they work out.

SahrotRein · September 2015

I don't know... I just see many words and numbers. I think I'll pass on this one.

RustedValor · September 2015

Templar shines in group content. Its the utility class and easily the best healer with a group cleanse, burst heals, healing ultimate, etc. You give back resources to your allies, do decent damage but not top tier. It absolutely has the best execute in the game for magic, especially for boss fights. Weapon choices and guild abilities can fill in the areas where templar is weak. As for the shield allot of people forget the shield gets stronger for every enemy near you when you cast it AND does damage, which makes it insane for tanking. Templar isn't for everyone, and yeah they need to rework a few of the useless skills, but overall its sick at being a healer and decent at everything else.

NGP · September 2015

Templar is the first one I would try to take out in pvp. And I would like seeing them thinking templars were too crap to bother protecting.

AinGeal · September 2015

Worst? That's laughable. NB are one of the worst. Nothing like using Shadow Cloak, spending the mp, and then not having it work because there happened to be some attack in mid progress against you. The moment you take damage it's wasted. Then there is the lack of duel function skills or simply skills that grant bonuses if used while cloaked or in stealth.

It's pretty bad when a cloak and dagger centered class is best used in anything but medium armor and best used as anything other than a cloak and dagger type play style.

I can do more on my Templar and DK than I can ever do on my NB.

Case in point is the one public dungeon on each map that is designed more for group play. I can wipe the floor of each group of enemies with anything other than my NB. Of course this has more to do with the difference between gear as well. I can still wipe each group with my NB so long as I have a healing staff as one of my weapons and I'm using heavy armor. Even so, I'd have an easier time with any of the other classes using the same gear.

The biggest issue is because NB in medium armor using anything other than staff is good dps but vs just one target. Sorc can put out as much but hit the whole group. Combine having to take out each enemy one at a time with a lack of self healing in this setup and you will run out of hp before you can take each enemy out.

This game has had some serious balance issues when it was released and many of these same balance issues exist today. I really don't get it.

DPS - lots of damage, little healing, little damage mitigation
Tank - little damage, little healing, lots of damage mitigation
Healer - little damage, lots of healing, little damage mitigation

Skills that hit multiple enemies should do less damage per enemy than single target skills.
Skills that heal multiple allies should do less healing per ally than single target skills.
Skills that mitigate damage from multiple enemies should mitigate less per enemy than single target skills.

Problems arise when you can get the best of more than one. Get good mitigation but still maintain good healing. Get high damage and can do it against a group of enemies and not just one.

Vatter · November 2015

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

UrQuan · November 2015

Vatter wrote: »

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

Well last time you were here you called the guy who used a templar to get the world best score on VetDSA "a true troll who has never played a templar". And now that guy seems to be doing pretty damn well on the VetMSA leaderboards with his templar. Which is weird for "a true troll who has never played a templar". I mean, I would have thought that maybe you'd have to play a templar to get on the templar leaderboards, but what do I know? So perhaps it's your attitude that should have changed rather than the state of the game?

Salmonoid · November 2015

Wow.. you are so wrong.

Templar is the best class in the game, it can successfully play DPS (highest DPS in PvE, On par DPS with Sorc/NB), Healer (Obviously best healer) and can tank like a boss.

You must be playing so wrong.

SemiD4rkness · November 2015

Salmonoid wrote: »

Wow.. you are so wrong.

Templar is the best class in the game, it can successfully play DPS (highest DPS in PvE, On par DPS with Sorc/NB), Healer (Obviously best healer) and can tank like a boss.

You must be playing so wrong.

You really must enjoy killing templars in pvp don't you?
Also, templars have the worst dps in pve compared to the other 3 classes.

Vatter · November 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

Well last time you were here you called the guy who used a templar to get the world best score on VetDSA "a true troll who has never played a templar". And now that guy seems to be doing pretty damn well on the VetMSA leaderboards with his templar. Which is weird for "a true troll who has never played a templar". I mean, I would have thought that maybe you'd have to play a templar to get on the templar leaderboards, but what do I know? So perhaps it's your attitude that should have changed rather than the state of the game?

ah yes I remember. He tried to post some screen shots on the pts thread of this topic. I really don't have the energy to lay into you right now. Heres the thread where he is shown how "good" he is.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209652/why-templar-is-the-worst-designed-class-in-eso-long#latest

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

oibam · November 2015

Apart from Templar Shield (too weak) and Templar Charge (stuck bug) everything is fine with Templars.

Gilliamtherogue · November 2015

Vatter wrote: »

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

Ahh good ol' ESO forums, where everyone bases adamant opinions based on their personal experience, and totally ignores any other level of play, because they're obviously the best. Funny how bads never change either :^) You truly need to reconsider your stance on this, but I bet you'll follow the massive crowd who "keeps coming back to see how things are" and then leaving 20 minutes after logging in when you realize you still can't roll your face on the keyboard and win. But please stay on the forums and talk negatively about this game, because you clearly have much insight on in since you've been gone and your previous posts are just filled to the brim with completely accurate facts and definitely not opinions of someone who lacks the capability to play this game at the mechanical level required.

If you want to look at the worst designed class, take a look at sorcerer kits, filled with mismatched utility, irrelevant abilities that only sound good on paper, and lack of true damage abilities. While templars may be rough on some of the edges, they're still a rather high quality class that doesn't have a lot of 'junk' abilities or passives compared to sorcs/nightblades. They're extremely versatile between tanking, dpsing, and healing. They're undeniably the strongest healers in game, with perhaps too many healing/support-esque abilities. They have great DPS, but are rather immobile
when dealing it (dark flare/jabs/radiant- casted snare), but also have the most mashed synergies in game. Yeah they lose some umpf when they're solo, but to be honest not every class should be balanced around solo play, as its highly unrealistic in terms of balancing compared to the rest of the game (i.e, you can't balance things to be perfect between solo, small-scale, AND large-scale in PvE + PvP all at once). A group without a templar is hardly worth calling a group at all in end game content, as you lose so much power between what they're capable of pulling off and what they bring to the table.

The only role a templar kind of falls under the 'meh' category to is a tank, but to be honest, what class isn't when compared to a DK? Not to say other classes can't do it, but no one does it like a DK. Something about DK's just scream, "I'm a meat wall, I dare you to come over here and stop me."

I fail to see any point where templars are worthy of being called the worst, or even a poorly designed class. You have three trees all filled with something useful for almost any role you want to play. They even have amazing choices between caster or stamina based dps builds, and only Nightblades really compare in that category for versatility in DPS builds. Could they use some refining as a class? Sure, but who doesn't need that? Every class has something lack luster about it in some aspect of the game; whether it be PvP, or PvE, stamina builds or caster builds, tank roles or DPS roles. There's always something to improve on, but get out of here with this nonesense about templars being the worst. Have you seen the world records each patch? Templars are a vital class in all of them, always have and always will.

Money says next thing I'll read is that Repentance is weak, Nova sucks, Blazing Spears are useless, or Breath of Life is the worst heal in the game.

Vatter wrote: »

...

Oi @Nifty2g where's my cookies+massage?

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Nifty2g · November 2015

Vatter wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

Well last time you were here you called the guy who used a templar to get the world best score on VetDSA "a true troll who has never played a templar". And now that guy seems to be doing pretty damn well on the VetMSA leaderboards with his templar. Which is weird for "a true troll who has never played a templar". I mean, I would have thought that maybe you'd have to play a templar to get on the templar leaderboards, but what do I know? So perhaps it's your attitude that should have changed rather than the state of the game?

ah yes I remember. He tried to post some screen shots on the pts thread of this topic. I really don't have the energy to lay into you right now. Heres the thread where he is shown how "good" he is.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209652/why-templar-is-the-worst-designed-class-in-eso-long#latest

All I see in that thread is me explaining why Puncturing Sweeps is a good skill cause of the knock back and DPS boost you get from it procing exploiter.

No changes have been made to Templar because there is nothing wrong with it. Maybe Blazing Shield could do with a buff and a damage reduction. Templars are the most versatile class in ESO, you can do whatever you like to with the class, Tank, Heal, Stamina DPS, Magicka DPS it's your choice.

As for VMA I haven't spent much time in there not as much as I should be if I want to go for #1 but because you said Templars have the lowest DPS here is a gift.

Vatter wrote: »

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

A lot does change in actually, players progress, but some dont

madcuzbad

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

SemiD4rkness · November 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

Well last time you were here you called the guy who used a templar to get the world best score on VetDSA "a true troll who has never played a templar". And now that guy seems to be doing pretty damn well on the VetMSA leaderboards with his templar. Which is weird for "a true troll who has never played a templar". I mean, I would have thought that maybe you'd have to play a templar to get on the templar leaderboards, but what do I know? So perhaps it's your attitude that should have changed rather than the state of the game?

ah yes I remember. He tried to post some screen shots on the pts thread of this topic. I really don't have the energy to lay into you right now. Heres the thread where he is shown how "good" he is.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209652/why-templar-is-the-worst-designed-class-in-eso-long#latest

All I see in that thread is me explaining why Puncturing Sweeps is a good skill cause of the knock back and DPS boost you get from it procing exploiter.

No changes have been made to Templar because there is nothing wrong with it. Maybe Blazing Shield could do with a buff and a damage reduction. Templars are the most versatile class in ESO, you can do whatever you like to with the class, Tank, Heal, Stamina DPS, Magicka DPS it's your choice.

As for VMA I haven't spent much time in there not as much as I should be if I want to go for #1 but because you said Templars have the lowest DPS here is a gift.

Vatter wrote: »

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

A lot does change in actually, players progress, but some dont

madcuzbad

Still worse dps than the other 3 classes.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Troneon · November 2015

All the devs play sorcs and nb's which is why they are on top right now. Confirmed.

Gilliamtherogue · November 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Vatter wrote: »

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

Well last time you were here you called the guy who used a templar to get the world best score on VetDSA "a true troll who has never played a templar". And now that guy seems to be doing pretty damn well on the VetMSA leaderboards with his templar. Which is weird for "a true troll who has never played a templar". I mean, I would have thought that maybe you'd have to play a templar to get on the templar leaderboards, but what do I know? So perhaps it's your attitude that should have changed rather than the state of the game?

ah yes I remember. He tried to post some screen shots on the pts thread of this topic. I really don't have the energy to lay into you right now. Heres the thread where he is shown how "good" he is.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209652/why-templar-is-the-worst-designed-class-in-eso-long#latest

All I see in that thread is me explaining why Puncturing Sweeps is a good skill cause of the knock back and DPS boost you get from it procing exploiter.

No changes have been made to Templar because there is nothing wrong with it. Maybe Blazing Shield could do with a buff and a damage reduction. Templars are the most versatile class in ESO, you can do whatever you like to with the class, Tank, Heal, Stamina DPS, Magicka DPS it's your choice.

As for VMA I haven't spent much time in there not as much as I should be if I want to go for #1 but because you said Templars have the lowest DPS here is a gift.

Vatter wrote: »

Wanted to stop by and see the state of the game. Funny how nothing has changed.

A lot does change in actually, players progress, but some dont

madcuzbad

Still worse dps than the other 3 classes.

Hi, actual NA/World record title holder for the past 3 major updates here, and I'm going to have to say you're pretty wrong

Just because the templars you run with, or you yourself pull less damage than others, doesn't automatically mean they're worse. I really wish people spent more time trying to branch out and surrounding themselves in more diverse player communities so they could take in and learn more about the game as a whole, instead of simply basing all of their opinions on one small sect that they play with. You'd be surprised how different this game operates between bad players, decent players, and good players- as well as between PvE scenarios and PvP alike. Just because one class is bad at 1vx in Cyrodiil doesn't mean they're automatically bad at 4 man content PvE or trials. That goes in both ways, just because a class is good somewhere, doesn't mean they're good universally. There isn't a one class fits all (rip DK's who used to be) to be the very best at every game play option, because that'd be impossible. You just can't balance an entire game where everyone is happy in every situation.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Flameheart · November 2015

This forum needs - besides the "Insightful", "Agree" and "Awesome" options - a "b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t" option. Would be great for the opening post.

I have over 380 CPs on my magicka NB and my magicka templar and I use the same hybrid point spread for them (NB Thaumaturge, Templar Elemental as damage type) and the same gear, Mundus and glyphs (at moment full arcan willpower set + Julianos + Torug, all in legendary V16, my NB even has Molag Kena shoulders and therefore more spelldamage), because I play them both as healers too. My magicka NB does 13k dps single target with some luck and without *** up the rotation + weaving + Spectral Assassin and a lot of experience. My templar did 14,5k the first time I played as a magicka DD and that even as a ranged DD by using Force Pulse instead of Puncturing Sweeps and without proper weaving and zero experience and just a few thoughts about the build.

...and as all here look at the templar as the best healer in this game...he is ahead, but not because of BoL, he is ahead because of Ritual. In an average 4-men-group all you need is Healing Ward. This heal is faster and always hits the right target. In the time you need to get 1 BoL off you are able to cast 2 x Healing Ward. Combine that with Mutagen and the healing is safe as solid rock. BoL makes just sense for raid content and where people have to stand at different locations so you can't get them by Healing Springs spam. The opportunities for that are manageable.

If there is one disadvantage in PvE for the magicka templar then it is the fact that you need (or might want) to have in addition to Inner Light Structured Entropy on your skill bars, because you want the buff and the health bonus. A NB is able to achieve health by shadow skills and the spelldamage bonus by Sap Essence which they might use for dps (and healing) anyways. So one joker skill slot for the NB.

Titansteele · November 2015

My Main is a DK Tank but I have a VR16 Templar which dishes good damage while still being able to heal a group.

Between these two characters I never struggle to find a pledge spot and I get a lot of requests to join guild members in a whole host of activities.
Is my Templar going to win any DPS competitions? No. Is it a popular and saught after group member? Hell Yes.

Khaos_Bane · November 2015

danno8 wrote: »

tplink3r1 wrote: »

Yes, Templars have some design problems(like the lack of AOE CC and escape), but the class isn't as bad as some people say it is.

No, it's not as horrible as some say. It's just that the other classes feel slick and polished to play but Templar feels like you are driving on hexagonal wheels. Maybe octagonal.

I love playing my Templar because I really enjoy the role of healing, and always have in MMO's. BUT, sometimes I wish that the resto staff had a BOL type skill so I could heal with other classes. Why? Because I also feel that all other classes in the game feel more "polished" than the Templar. The Templar has a couple of GREAT skills and the rest of them are pretty useless and I am sick of it.

I agree with the above poster, they lack a lot and you can tell their skills have basically been ignored.

Jura23 · November 2015

I think we can expect nice buffs for Templar next one or two updates, because there are lots of peeps complaining lately.

Khaos_Bane · November 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

I think we can expect nice buffs for Templar next one or two updates, because there are lots of peeps complaining lately.

I sure hope so, Templars are clearly playable, but the analogy of octagonal wheels is a perfect one. There are a lot of skills that are completely useless and no synergy between them. I also play a v16 sorc as an alt and they seem so polished compared to the Templar.

Artheiron · November 2015

I don't know many good templars, I think it's hard to count their numbers, but luckily so far all of my templar teammates were 8/10 - 10/10 templars. They were complaining about this and that .

I'm not going to say L2P that'd not make any sense. But I can say... relax! the game doesn't have a class balance atm. I don't expect them to fine tune classes until they release spellcrafting system. Arenas and 1v1 duels won't happen before all these happen. zos have to make their moves right. who doesn't want to see this game become a popular esports game?

Preyfar · November 2015

Artheiron wrote: »

I don't know many good templars, I think it's hard to count their numbers, but luckily so far all of my templar teammates were 8/10 - 10/10 templars. They were complaining about this and that .

I'm not going to say L2P that'd not make any sense. But I can say... relax! the game doesn't have a class balance atm. I don't expect them to fine tune classes until they release spellcrafting system. Arenas and 1v1 duels won't happen before all these happen. zos have to make their moves right. who doesn't want to see this game become a popular esports game?

The biggest problem with Templar is, say, if you want to make a DPS build. If you're magicka melee, you pretty much have no choice but to take jabs. And that's the only skill you'll spam over and over and over and...

There's a lot of great Templar builds out there, an lot of them that can drop some devastating damage (never underestimate the power of Dark Flare), but... the variety of skills you can use (or are useful) is marginal. I get painfully tired of jabs. I'd love to do something else, but I don't want to go destro. So my options are insanely limited, unless I opt to switch over to a stam build.

BlackEar · November 2015

/Signed.

Stamina Templars need more than a breath of life to get back from this situation.

zornyan · November 2015

Preyfar wrote: »

Artheiron wrote: »

I don't know many good templars, I think it's hard to count their numbers, but luckily so far all of my templar teammates were 8/10 - 10/10 templars. They were complaining about this and that .

I'm not going to say L2P that'd not make any sense. But I can say... relax! the game doesn't have a class balance atm. I don't expect them to fine tune classes until they release spellcrafting system. Arenas and 1v1 duels won't happen before all these happen. zos have to make their moves right. who doesn't want to see this game become a popular esports game?

The biggest problem with Templar is, say, if you want to make a DPS build. If you're magicka melee, you pretty much have no choice but to take jabs. And that's the only skill you'll spam over and over and over and...

There's a lot of great Templar builds out there, an lot of them that can drop some devastating damage (never underestimate the power of Dark Flare), but... the variety of skills you can use (or are useful) is marginal. I get painfully tired of jabs. I'd love to do something else, but I don't want to go destro. So my options are insanely limited, unless I opt to switch over to a stam build.

Magicka Templar

Toppling charge in

Sweeps
Sweeps
Sweeps
Radiant

Stamina templar

Crit rush in

Jabs
Jabs
Jabs
Executioner.

Magicka templar vs sorc

Jump in

Sweeps
Sweeps
Sweep

Realise sweeps is bugged and doesn't apply damage to shields
Recieve 15k frags to the face
Spam heals
Attempt to run and realize you have no mobility
Die

That sums it up for me.

Dark flare is sup par in pvp, and that's really all we have for pvp, sweeps is bugged, misses most of the time and doesn't work on shields, javelin is a Damm expensive skill and does lackluster damage, blazing people just walk out of...

Hektik_V · November 2015

Vatter wrote: »

I welcome to any feedback anyone else has concerning this breakdown. but before you comment please ask yourself.
do I have a v14 templar?
have I experienced all game content?
Do i understand that Imperial city is a pvp update?

Are you a Grand Overlord on your Templar?
Have you completed the end game content in all roles on all classes?

Probably not.