leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

CavalierKing wrote: »

Everyone uses light armor? Obviously you're another noob that follows Deltia's or Sypher's min/maxed dps glass cannon builds and then complains when they get destroyed by another glass cannon because they're not as good as professional players.

Credit where credit's due. Sypher is freaking amazing, and pretty creative (or at least he was last I checked, and I can't imagine that's changed.) My personal opinion of Deltia's a bit lower, but the man is very skilled. I've just never been particularly impressed with his builds.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You open up a fight with piercing mark?

Yes, because a medium armor character's job is to murder the other guy before being reduced to chunky salsa on the walls. Mostly that's nightblades, but the same holds true for stealth sorcs, DKs, and Templars. So yes, I open fights with Piercing Mark.

Then use a Night's Silence set with Concealed Weapon, and Cloak on my alt bar, and I have a lot of freedom of movement in Cyrodiil for siegebreaking.

You use concealed with a bow? i'm confused are you a magicka or stamina nb?

I use concealed with a bow and 2h because of the +25% movement speed buff. It's only on the bar for the passive. With that and Night's Silence my move speed is at 125% of my normal run (not sprint) speed.

Even if I used SA it would pale in comparison to the damage WB does coming out of stealth.

Outside of Cyrodiil, I usually ditch Concealed Weapon, because the extra move speed isn't worth giving up a skill. In Cyrodiil, the only time I use CW is with Cloak if I need to stun someone. But that gets expensive fast.

surprise attack is a decent closer though and the 8k armour debuff would free up your mark slot, also it's a Gap closer stun from cloak.

Surprise Attack is not a gap closer. You're thinking of Ambush. I use that on my Vamp NB, but that's a very different build.

The 8k armor debuff on Piercing Mark is... well, it's not trash. It'll mess up anyone in LA or MA. Players in heavy don't care. But the real perk for Piercing Mark is that the enemy cannot go into stealth and escape, while it's active. The value of Concealed is that I can get outmaneuver other players much more effectively while undetected. It's not about raw DPS or mesmering them, it's about being places I shouldn't be in order to dispose of stranglers.

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm sick of dying to snipe from people 50 meters away from a fight spamming 10k skills...

How can an ability that has a 50m range consistently hit for 10k + and have a 1 second charge time?

From that range the skill should either has a bigger cast time about 2.5 seconds or such or not do that amount of dmg, a skill from 50m is cast from safety so why is it one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Move closer.

More damage is done with a bow the farther you are.

It's the fact i'll be fighting someone or not looking in the persons general direction before i get hear the snipe sound the same time i get hit which is 10k xD

Or if i do see them after they hit me then there will be 2-3 snipes coming my way from someone 50m away and i can't only go so fast and my interrupt is 27m...

Then i'll have to block or dodge roll in order to not die to the inevitable 2-3 other snipes coming my way because snipe users spam it... as a magicka build i kind of need that to break free...

Well if there are 8 people sniping then you die. It's a good skill but it has it's limitations. I read somewhere here not long ago, a light attack (I believe a staff) was 25k. It's war we die. If it's that much of a bother, go NB and cloak.

I've killed a lot of people with my inferno staff, swear it hits harder than my skills sometimes. Less and less magicka NB's run a destro staff these days though.

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

CavalierKing wrote: »

Everyone uses light armor? Obviously you're another noob that follows Deltia's or Sypher's min/maxed dps glass cannon builds and then complains when they get destroyed by another glass cannon because they're not as good as professional players.

Credit where credit's due. Sypher is freaking amazing, and pretty creative (or at least he was last I checked, and I can't imagine that's changed.) My personal opinion of Deltia's a bit lower, but the man is very skilled. I've just never been particularly impressed with his builds.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You open up a fight with piercing mark?

Yes, because a medium armor character's job is to murder the other guy before being reduced to chunky salsa on the walls. Mostly that's nightblades, but the same holds true for stealth sorcs, DKs, and Templars. So yes, I open fights with Piercing Mark.

Then use a Night's Silence set with Concealed Weapon, and Cloak on my alt bar, and I have a lot of freedom of movement in Cyrodiil for siegebreaking.

You use concealed with a bow? i'm confused are you a magicka or stamina nb?

I use concealed with a bow and 2h because of the +25% movement speed buff. It's only on the bar for the passive. With that and Night's Silence my move speed is at 125% of my normal run (not sprint) speed.

Even if I used SA it would pale in comparison to the damage WB does coming out of stealth.

Outside of Cyrodiil, I usually ditch Concealed Weapon, because the extra move speed isn't worth giving up a skill. In Cyrodiil, the only time I use CW is with Cloak if I need to stun someone. But that gets expensive fast.

surprise attack is a decent closer though and the 8k armour debuff would free up your mark slot, also it's a Gap closer stun from cloak.

Surprise Attack is not a gap closer. You're thinking of Ambush. I use that on my Vamp NB, but that's a very different build.

The 8k armor debuff on Piercing Mark is... well, it's not trash. It'll mess up anyone in LA or MA. Players in heavy don't care. But the real perk for Piercing Mark is that the enemy cannot go into stealth and escape, while it's active. The value of Concealed is that I can get outmaneuver other players much more effectively while undetected. It's not about raw DPS or mesmering them, it's about being places I shouldn't be in order to dispose of stranglers.

Hmm pretty sure i was fighting someone with a similar build today was a vamp though and was stupidly fast, he kept cloaking attacking me so fast i could hardly follow him, took me 5 mins to kill him when i finally streaked through him and burst him with curse/frag + dawnbreaker

Why do nb's have the perfect counter to cloak... ,

Yeah i keep getting mixed up with the nb skill names, though you should have enough normal penetration to fully ignore a light wearing armour.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm sick of dying to snipe from people 50 meters away from a fight spamming 10k skills...

How can an ability that has a 50m range consistently hit for 10k + and have a 1 second charge time?

From that range the skill should either has a bigger cast time about 2.5 seconds or such or not do that amount of dmg, a skill from 50m is cast from safety so why is it one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Move closer.

More damage is done with a bow the farther you are.

It's the fact i'll be fighting someone or not looking in the persons general direction before i get hear the snipe sound the same time i get hit which is 10k xD

Or if i do see them after they hit me then there will be 2-3 snipes coming my way from someone 50m away and i can't only go so fast and my interrupt is 27m...

Then i'll have to block or dodge roll in order to not die to the inevitable 2-3 other snipes coming my way because snipe users spam it... as a magicka build i kind of need that to break free...

Well if there are 8 people sniping then you die. It's a good skill but it has it's limitations. I read somewhere here not long ago, a light attack (I believe a staff) was 25k. It's war we die. If it's that much of a bother, go NB and cloak.

I've killed a lot of people with my inferno staff, swear it hits harder than my skills sometimes. Less and less magicka NB's run a destro staff these days though.

It's because dual wield gives more spell power and nb's have enough good class skills so they don't need to weave with a staff to be able to do decent dmg.

Oh I know the reasons, I run destro and dual wield in group content. I would just miss those hard hitting staff attacks and I found my ultimate generation kinda sucked without a staff too. Too each his own. i hear sorcs do very well with dual wield too though.

revonine wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm sick of dying to snipe from people 50 meters away from a fight spamming 10k skills...

How can an ability that has a 50m range consistently hit for 10k + and have a 1 second charge time?

From that range the skill should either has a bigger cast time about 2.5 seconds or such or not do that amount of dmg, a skill from 50m is cast from safety so why is it one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Move closer.

More damage is done with a bow the farther you are.

It's the fact i'll be fighting someone or not looking in the persons general direction before i get hear the snipe sound the same time i get hit which is 10k xD

Or if i do see them after they hit me then there will be 2-3 snipes coming my way from someone 50m away and i can't only go so fast and my interrupt is 27m...

Then i'll have to block or dodge roll in order to not die to the inevitable 2-3 other snipes coming my way because snipe users spam it... as a magicka build i kind of need that to break free...

Well if there are 8 people sniping then you die. It's a good skill but it has it's limitations. I read somewhere here not long ago, a light attack (I believe a staff) was 25k. It's war we die. If it's that much of a bother, go NB and cloak.

I've killed a lot of people with my inferno staff, swear it hits harder than my skills sometimes. Less and less magicka NB's run a destro staff these days though.

It's because dual wield gives more spell power and nb's have enough good class skills so they don't need to weave with a staff to be able to do decent dmg.

Oh I know the reasons, I run destro and dual wield in group content. I would just miss those hard hitting staff attacks and I found my ultimate generation kinda sucked without a staff too. Too each his own. i hear sorcs do very well with dual wield too though.

They do ok, but i miss the ult generation and the interupt from light weaving with a light staff

revonine wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

CavalierKing wrote: »

Everyone uses light armor? Obviously you're another noob that follows Deltia's or Sypher's min/maxed dps glass cannon builds and then complains when they get destroyed by another glass cannon because they're not as good as professional players.

Credit where credit's due. Sypher is freaking amazing, and pretty creative (or at least he was last I checked, and I can't imagine that's changed.) My personal opinion of Deltia's a bit lower, but the man is very skilled. I've just never been particularly impressed with his builds.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You open up a fight with piercing mark?

Yes, because a medium armor character's job is to murder the other guy before being reduced to chunky salsa on the walls. Mostly that's nightblades, but the same holds true for stealth sorcs, DKs, and Templars. So yes, I open fights with Piercing Mark.

Then use a Night's Silence set with Concealed Weapon, and Cloak on my alt bar, and I have a lot of freedom of movement in Cyrodiil for siegebreaking.

You use concealed with a bow? i'm confused are you a magicka or stamina nb?

I use concealed with a bow and 2h because of the +25% movement speed buff. It's only on the bar for the passive. With that and Night's Silence my move speed is at 125% of my normal run (not sprint) speed.

Even if I used SA it would pale in comparison to the damage WB does coming out of stealth.

Outside of Cyrodiil, I usually ditch Concealed Weapon, because the extra move speed isn't worth giving up a skill. In Cyrodiil, the only time I use CW is with Cloak if I need to stun someone. But that gets expensive fast.

surprise attack is a decent closer though and the 8k armour debuff would free up your mark slot, also it's a Gap closer stun from cloak.

Surprise Attack is not a gap closer. You're thinking of Ambush. I use that on my Vamp NB, but that's a very different build.

The 8k armor debuff on Piercing Mark is... well, it's not trash. It'll mess up anyone in LA or MA. Players in heavy don't care. But the real perk for Piercing Mark is that the enemy cannot go into stealth and escape, while it's active. The value of Concealed is that I can get outmaneuver other players much more effectively while undetected. It's not about raw DPS or mesmering them, it's about being places I shouldn't be in order to dispose of stranglers.

Hmm pretty sure i was fighting someone with a similar build today was a vamp though and was stupidly fast, he kept cloaking attacking me so fast i could hardly follow him, took me 5 mins to kill him when i finally streaked through him and burst him with curse/frag + dawnbreaker

Why do nb's have the perfect counter to cloak... ,

Yeah i keep getting mixed up with the nb skill names, though you should have enough normal penetration to fully ignore a light wearing armour.

Yeah, a vampire can stack Dark Stalker with The Steed, Hunding's Rage, full divine, and concealed weapon to move at freaking horrific speeds and still hit like a truck. I'm doing the math in my head, but without a separate speed buff they should be able to move faster than you can sprint while in stealth.

My non-vamp can do the same, but I have to give up Hunding's Rage.

As for why do NBs get the perfect counter for cloak? Well... everyone gets Acid Spray and Steel Tornado. Also, if they took Shadowy Disguise, then Entropy (or any other DoT) will pull them back out. And, yes, for some builds, Structured Entropy is worth having.

Seriously, if you have a bow, and know the general vicinity of a stealthed NB, Acid Spray will ruin their entire day.

or a detect pot. They're really uncommon on consoles at the moment so when I pop one against another nightblade they are totally dumbfounded and they're moment of confusion allows me to take them out.

That kinda surprises me, actually. Detect pots are really easy to craft. I'd have to check an alchemy list, but it's mostly ingredients players toss while they're rushing after tripots or other buff pots.

EDIT: Wormwood (which is mostly trash tier) and Cornflowers (which is useful for spell power pots, health pots, and not much else.)

EDIT 2: They're suing the Wormwood for immovable pots, aren't they?

revonine wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

CavalierKing wrote: »

Everyone uses light armor? Obviously you're another noob that follows Deltia's or Sypher's min/maxed dps glass cannon builds and then complains when they get destroyed by another glass cannon because they're not as good as professional players.

Credit where credit's due. Sypher is freaking amazing, and pretty creative (or at least he was last I checked, and I can't imagine that's changed.) My personal opinion of Deltia's a bit lower, but the man is very skilled. I've just never been particularly impressed with his builds.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You open up a fight with piercing mark?

Yes, because a medium armor character's job is to murder the other guy before being reduced to chunky salsa on the walls. Mostly that's nightblades, but the same holds true for stealth sorcs, DKs, and Templars. So yes, I open fights with Piercing Mark.

Then use a Night's Silence set with Concealed Weapon, and Cloak on my alt bar, and I have a lot of freedom of movement in Cyrodiil for siegebreaking.

You use concealed with a bow? i'm confused are you a magicka or stamina nb?

I use concealed with a bow and 2h because of the +25% movement speed buff. It's only on the bar for the passive. With that and Night's Silence my move speed is at 125% of my normal run (not sprint) speed.

Even if I used SA it would pale in comparison to the damage WB does coming out of stealth.

Outside of Cyrodiil, I usually ditch Concealed Weapon, because the extra move speed isn't worth giving up a skill. In Cyrodiil, the only time I use CW is with Cloak if I need to stun someone. But that gets expensive fast.

surprise attack is a decent closer though and the 8k armour debuff would free up your mark slot, also it's a Gap closer stun from cloak.

Surprise Attack is not a gap closer. You're thinking of Ambush. I use that on my Vamp NB, but that's a very different build.

The 8k armor debuff on Piercing Mark is... well, it's not trash. It'll mess up anyone in LA or MA. Players in heavy don't care. But the real perk for Piercing Mark is that the enemy cannot go into stealth and escape, while it's active. The value of Concealed is that I can get outmaneuver other players much more effectively while undetected. It's not about raw DPS or mesmering them, it's about being places I shouldn't be in order to dispose of stranglers.

Hmm pretty sure i was fighting someone with a similar build today was a vamp though and was stupidly fast, he kept cloaking attacking me so fast i could hardly follow him, took me 5 mins to kill him when i finally streaked through him and burst him with curse/frag + dawnbreaker

Why do nb's have the perfect counter to cloak... ,

Yeah i keep getting mixed up with the nb skill names, though you should have enough normal penetration to fully ignore a light wearing armour.

Yeah, a vampire can stack Dark Stalker with The Steed, Hunding's Rage, full divine, and concealed weapon to move at freaking horrific speeds and still hit like a truck. I'm doing the math in my head, but without a separate speed buff they should be able to move faster than you can sprint while in stealth.

My non-vamp can do the same, but I have to give up Hunding's Rage.

As for why do NBs get the perfect counter for cloak? Well... everyone gets Acid Spray and Steel Tornado. Also, if they took Shadowy Disguise, then Entropy (or any other DoT) will pull them back out. And, yes, for some builds, Structured Entropy is worth having.

Seriously, if you have a bow, and know the general vicinity of a stealthed NB, Acid Spray will ruin their entire day.

or a detect pot. They're really uncommon on consoles at the moment so when I pop one against another nightblade they are totally dumbfounded and they're moment of confusion allows me to take them out.

That kinda surprises me, actually. Detect pots are really easy to craft. I'd have to check an alchemy list, but it's mostly ingredients players toss while they're rushing after tripots or other buff pots.

I've had many many skirmishes on my magblade and not one person has ever use a detect pot on me, I'd know, I'd be very very dead xD

I'm inclined to chalk that one up to the Console meta lagging behind the PC players. Eventually they'll figure it out.

I spam detect pots nonstop on ps4. Anytime my stealth eye moves a hair but im not sure about everyone else. Most ppl think the reagents are junk lol

leepalmer95 wrote: »

CavalierKing wrote: »

Well if your wards are so great, why are you dying so fast? Your argument is quickly falling apart. Either wards are great and you're just fine, or they aren't good enough and you need to do something different like use heavy armor and put points into health. And as you just stated, you're min/maxing. You're trying to do as much dps as possible by putting all your points into magicka. Being a min/maxed dps is called being a glass cannon because you'll do a crap ton of damage, but you'll die pretty easy. If max dps is what you want, fine, but don't expect to have any survivability and don't go complaining to ZOS to get other things nerfed so that you can survive. Get good or deal with your crappy choices.

Lol i'm being told to L2P by a guy saying sorc should use heavy armour and not stack magicka. You literally have no idea what your talking about...

Also it's ward, singular, uno , one , hardened is the only shield that sorc's 'stack' that gives physical dmg, you sound like one of these 1 button nb spammers.

Your also calling sorc glass cannons... do you even know what min/maxing is? you keep throwing the word around.

Stacking magicka = survivability... not sure why you don't understand that?

Now shoo the actual pvpers are talking.

Being able to play - using the right skills at the right time towards the right thing - is obviously different from creating a build which just further proves that you don't know how to play. I am a magicka templar healer with heavy armor with 21k magicka, 1k magicka regen, 20k health all at VR3. I have no problem giving excellent heals in both pvp and pve, and have carried many groups. I can survive most attacks as I know how to play. Am I min/maxed? Obviously not. Can I be the best possible healer with this build? Obviously not. However, I choose extra survivability over extra, unnecessary magicka regen because that's not the best build for me, and no, I don't go complaining to ZOS that I can't wear light armor because other builds hit too hard. I adapt and I get good. And yes, centering your build around dps makes you a glass cannon.

revonine wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm sick of dying to snipe from people 50 meters away from a fight spamming 10k skills...

How can an ability that has a 50m range consistently hit for 10k + and have a 1 second charge time?

From that range the skill should either has a bigger cast time about 2.5 seconds or such or not do that amount of dmg, a skill from 50m is cast from safety so why is it one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Move closer.

More damage is done with a bow the farther you are.

It's the fact i'll be fighting someone or not looking in the persons general direction before i get hear the snipe sound the same time i get hit which is 10k xD

Or if i do see them after they hit me then there will be 2-3 snipes coming my way from someone 50m away and i can't only go so fast and my interrupt is 27m...

Then i'll have to block or dodge roll in order to not die to the inevitable 2-3 other snipes coming my way because snipe users spam it... as a magicka build i kind of need that to break free...

Well if there are 8 people sniping then you die. It's a good skill but it has it's limitations. I read somewhere here not long ago, a light attack (I believe a staff) was 25k. It's war we die. If it's that much of a bother, go NB and cloak.

I've killed a lot of people with my inferno staff, swear it hits harder than my skills sometimes. Less and less magicka NB's run a destro staff these days though.

It's because dual wield gives more spell power and nb's have enough good class skills so they don't need to weave with a staff to be able to do decent dmg.

Oh I know the reasons, I run destro and dual wield in group content. I would just miss those hard hitting staff attacks and I found my ultimate generation kinda sucked without a staff too. Too each his own. i hear sorcs do very well with dual wield too though.

Yeah, Sorc dual wielding is very nice. I've been running that on my lowbie Sorc for awhile now.

Heavy Armor users in PvP unite! But... seriously, the confusion is funny. Also, I get that Dawnbreaker is a cheap ulti Lee, but you're not a Stamina Sorc. I can't really imagine that it's doing you much good, on either morph. I like the 8% weapon damage on my Sorc tank, but it's kinda eh unless you're fighting a vamp or a werewolf. The joke "PURGE THE WEAK!" never gets old though. Still, you'd probably get more out of meteor. Though, you are on the console. I suppose that makes the lore books harder to find...

Also, you're a Sorc. You've got Encase. It's a lovely aoe. Encase. Ugrade to Restraining Prison for the snare. Add Liquid Lightning. Players aren't bosses. It works on them. Also, Nightblades aren't Sorcs. They can't take it with them as they Streak away. It's a beautiful thing. You can also take the Exploding Imp for the stun. It's a long stun, if I remember correctly. Damage isn't great, but the stun where they just hang there? Ha. Worth it. And no one expects it.

There are a lot of nice counters to NB in the Sorc tree. They're just not the usual bread and butter skills used by most min/maxers. I'm not sure if Encase has ever recovered from Deltia pooh poohing it for not being Talons and it's a shame since it's one of the most useful survival skills for a low-level sorcerer. Freeze the zerg. Freeze the zerg. (Actually, I have frozen an entire dungeon's worth of enemies with it. It's nice.)

revonine wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'm sick of dying to snipe from people 50 meters away from a fight spamming 10k skills...

How can an ability that has a 50m range consistently hit for 10k + and have a 1 second charge time?

From that range the skill should either has a bigger cast time about 2.5 seconds or such or not do that amount of dmg, a skill from 50m is cast from safety so why is it one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

Move closer.

More damage is done with a bow the farther you are.

It's the fact i'll be fighting someone or not looking in the persons general direction before i get hear the snipe sound the same time i get hit which is 10k xD

Or if i do see them after they hit me then there will be 2-3 snipes coming my way from someone 50m away and i can't only go so fast and my interrupt is 27m...

Then i'll have to block or dodge roll in order to not die to the inevitable 2-3 other snipes coming my way because snipe users spam it... as a magicka build i kind of need that to break free...

Well if there are 8 people sniping then you die. It's a good skill but it has it's limitations. I read somewhere here not long ago, a light attack (I believe a staff) was 25k. It's war we die. If it's that much of a bother, go NB and cloak.

I've killed a lot of people with my inferno staff, swear it hits harder than my skills sometimes. Less and less magicka NB's run a destro staff these days though.

I do, and I love it.

dday3six wrote: »

Hardened Ward is a Sorc's only in class shield, but most use Healing Ward too. When people say "Sorc shield stacking" they are talking about the too of them.

Yeah, some also take advantage of the Whitestrake bubble to add to their shield stacking and a few others. So, the shield stacking builds are ones that generally need a healing staff in order to function. You could probably also do the same with bone shield and two handed morph for brawler, especially in mass groups. There are a few more that often get dragged in too, though I can't remember off hand what they are. Annulment, maybe?

And I know that some Templars used to do the shield stacking thing also, though perhaps not as effectively.