Maintenance for the week of December 15:
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)

Why Templars are the worst designed class in ESO

Vatter
Vatter
✭✭✭✭✭
I've played a templar ever since beta stress testing was done.

I've played all builds. all different types of game play. When I rolled the character for live I chose a high elf templar because of the focus on magicka.

As everyone knows, the templar has been consistently the worst class to play in ESO. There have been multiple surveys that confirm this by other players.

Our DPS is last on the list. Even though we can put up some decent numbers, it is, still in fact, last place.
For PVE DPS it goes DK, NB, Sorc, Temp.
For PVP DPS it goes NB, Sorc, DK, Temp.
Now a lot of players who have never played a templar before generally come on the forums yelling about RADIANT DESTRUCTION this or BREATH OF LIFE that and BITING JABS this or BLAZING SHIELD that and these are generally the talking points people use to say the class is fine. But lets take a look at these.

1. Breath of Life and Honor the Dead - This is the number one argument people like to use on why they should get their healing buffed or why templars are a "good" class. What they don't know about is something called the "Smart Healing System" that ZOS has embedded in their code. Basically, when I hit BOL or HTD, the heal will go to the lowest health person in the range of the spell. So what that means is you are NEVER guaranteed to heal yourself unlike other classes unless you are out of range of other faction players. Other classes can stack up healing buffs through CP, mundus, Gear and Restoration staff abilities and are 100% guaranteed a self heal (in most cases 75%-90% of their total health bar is returned) in 1 or 2 instant casts.

How many times as a templar healer have you been in Cyrodill near a keep under siege with other players (whether in group or out of group) OR in a group for that matter going against another group, you get hit by siege or other players AOE's and are being drained of health fast, you try to heal your self using your "OP" class heal only to heal the dopes that are not even in your group who like to stand in siege fire or right in the middle of the opposing zerg and not cleansing, healing or moving themselves and you die? for me, its happened hundreds and hundreds of times.

So all of the sudden my "OP" class heal becomes a "maybe if I feel like it" heal. Here's an example you can try on your own. take you and a friend somewhere with an npc. Have your friend have only have 16 or 18k health and you 25-30k. you aggro the npc and let them hit you. as long as your health stays above your friends every heal you do will go to him instead of you even though he is at 100% health. try it.

This is a huge buff for night blades and sorcerers who have escape skills and shield (sorc) because of this they generally stack everything into spell and weapon power and have the lowest health in cyrodiil and because its usually group vs group they get all the heals. letting them survive longer until the templar is dead. then, when they are about to be overcome simply hit vanish or streak and live to fight on. the templar has to rez and horse it back to group. it's insane.

2. DPS - Another big problem with Templars is our dps skills. ALL OF THEM THAT ACTUALLY DO DAMAGE ARE CHANNELED OR DAMAGE OVER TIME. granted there is one or 2 that are instant such as javelin which of course costs an incredible amount of resources and hits like a wad of wet kleenex. lets take a look.

- biting jabs or puncturing sweep - channeled - 1.1 secs for 4 hits. ANY PLAYER WHO IS NOT ABSOLUTELY BRAND NEW TO GAME IS NOT GONNA SIT THERE AND TAKE THIS. they can simply roll dodge through you, side step, back up, block, or CC you SINCE YOU ARE COMPLETELY OPEN TO ANY ATTACK WHILE CASTING THIS. Not to mention the other player gets a full cc immunity for a .5 sec knock back.
*this skill should have the same immunity as wrecking blow and have a lower cast time. .5 secs instead of 1.1

-spear shards - instant - but has an arc travel time so its close to .3 or .4 secs for initial damage to be done. the damage on initial hit is 2 - 2.5k then the other player has to stand in it which the area is only 8 meters for them to take the dot. ANY PLAYER WHO IS NOT BRAND NEW TO GAME IS NOT GONNA SIT THERE AND TAKE THIS. they can simply roll dodge, side step, or back up. Most people will just hold block and move back so your chances of striking someone with this ability over and over is low because of the arc travel time and small DOT radius.

-Sun shield and its morphs - Now completely useless. 15% of my max health as a shield for 6 secs? please just remove this skill completely from game because now it seems like your just laughing at us. not one single person is gonna slot this. skill destroyed.

-vampires bane and reflective light - instant - with travel time - initial blast is to low and damage over time is to low. not to mention the dot can easily be removed or soaked up by a damage shield.

-Solar flare and morph - channeled - 1.1 sec cast time - also has a high arc travel time so it can be close to 2 secs or more before any damage is done. ANY PLAYER WHO IS NOT ABSOLUTELY BRAND NEW TO GAME IS NOT GONNA SIT THERE AND TAKE THIS. due to the high arc travel time this skill is avoided 99% of the time. Who's idea was it to give these skills high arc paths? its just awful. The instant cast version of this has damage so low it makes you laugh.

-backlash - instant - but it has a 6 sec build up time which can be removed or mitigated so no damage is even done.

-eclipse - instant - however its cc breakable and cannot be applied to ANYONE who is under cc immunity. ANYONE WHO IS NOT BRAND NEW WILL INSTANTLY CC BREAK THIS FOR THE IMMUNITY - there is no instant damage so it gives people a free immunity going in to a fight for some stamina.

-Radiant Destruction - the skill there has been soooo much crying over. lets break it down. 1. you have to be low health, under 20% for the bonus effect to kick in. even then the damage IS SPREAD OUT OVER 3.4 SECS. mine on pts does 9443. lets do the math 9443 / 3.4 secs = 2777 damage per second which is then cut by 50% for IC which is now 1388 per second. LOL 1,388 DAMAGE PER SECOND! - NOT TO MENTION IS CAN BE INTERRUPTED, CLEANSED, RANGED, BUBBLED AND LEAVES YOU OPEN THE ENTIRE TIME TO BE CC'D OR ATTACKED. with all the heal stacking that will be going on people are going to be insta healing to 75 - 100% health or bubbling or my favorite spamming cloak. So to get someone to 20% health with these mechanics AND awful templar dps is going to be very very hard.

lets look at the healing, the meat of what makes the templar class.

1. rushed ceremony and morphs - a good skill - that is if your lucky enough for it to be applied to you. even then it requires you stop dps in order to cast it. a superior skill is hardened ward where the sorcerer can stack magicka and spell damage into it have a huge bubble and can continue with full cannon dps.

2. healing ritual and morphs - the cast time is way to long and leaves you open to be interrupted, and cc'd

3. restoring aura and morphs - the +20% buff does not apply to magicka only health and stamina. the repentance morph requires dead bodies for it to work. npcs that are dead vanish very fast so you have to be johnny on the spot with this.

4. cleansing ritual and morphs - good cleanse skill. the heal over time is a little low for a burst damage game.

5. rune focus and morphs - used to be a good skill now you have to stay within the small area to gain the magicka or healing buff. the area itself is small.

On top of all this we have no speed buff, no escape, no aoe cc, bad regen, sub par passives, and little to no instant dps skills.

MY SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVEMENTS IN ORDER OF IMPORTANCE TO ME.

1. there needs to be a hierarchy in your smart healing system. it should go self>group>everyone else. the way it is seriously nerfs the core of our class.

2. puncturing sweep and morphs should have same immunity as wrecking blow and be .5 sec to cast. even dropping the 4th hit with the knock back will do if thats whats needed to make the change. I'm also not sure why this skill works differently with burning light. the proc chance is much lower then 25% which i'm sure is by design. please revert whatever changes you made to it.

3.changes to ultimates need to happen - i'd make the dot damage from NOVA an instant cast explosion that comes from the player and does aoe damage and reduces enemy player damage by 15%. 20k aoe damage (scaled with moderate spell or weapon power) with 15 meter radius and 15% enemy reduced damage seems fair for 240 ultimate. seeing is how dawn breaker, dragon leap, and overcharge already do similar damage. with dawn breaker and overcharge being much more cheaper. the way it is now, as much as you want them to, no one is gonna stand in your nova.

4.make repentance a toggle skill that automatically takes the essences from killed npcs and players.

5.Solar flare being thrown instead of heaved(straight flight time instead of high arc) . put it on par with crystal fragments in terms of speed and cast time and damage. keep the de-buff and no insta cast proc chance.

6.Eclipse being cast on self not on target.

7.make spear shards an aoe root or stun. similar to talons.

8. scale sun shield with spell damage and max magicka and extend the time to 20 secs.

I welcome to any feedback anyone else has concerning this breakdown. but before you comment please ask yourself.
do I have a v14 templar?
have I experienced all game content?
Do i understand that Imperial city is a pvp update?
  • SeptimusDova
    SeptimusDova
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    vatter it's too late :( ZO$ has decided that nerfing templars is good for the long term health of the game. And that they are happy with the changes. And they feel that templars are better when slower by design. And that Templars must have Precognition and anticipate !!!!
  • Kammakazi
    Kammakazi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    tumblr_mnxvc4x90D1s5jjtzo1_400.gif
  • jorgeh401b14_ESO
    jorgeh401b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    is seems like the templer class was an after thought with the game revolving around three alliances and the cut scene showing three classes fight for the throne, I feel like mages had a healing skill bar and there was no templers. look at the early footage you see a mage casting storm caller abilities and a green heal ability that looks just like the ability used by the elf women in the cgi intro. I feel like they added them to give the game a holy trinity thing that it may not of had, after GW2 was criticize for removing it. as this game is clearly based that design.
    "Once I'm done with the three questing zones I will travel to cyrodiil and make my claim to the throne."

    Key Binds Guide For PS4 to Change the Weapon Swap Button
    PS4 / NA server
  • BugCollector
    BugCollector
    ✭✭✭✭
    We're shouting for changes for months, but ZOS just ignores us...
    May knowledge guide you to enlightenment
  • Azalin76
    Azalin76
    ✭✭✭
    I agree with you, my main is a templar and I feel like I have very little survival skills. I wear all cloth and have to spam nothing but jabs to stay alive, if I try to cast another spell in between my health instantly drops to a dangerously low level. I recently posted something similar about how most of the templar skills can be compared to the mage skills, but the mage skills have twice as much damage. It seems they decided to give templars utility over damage so they are absolutely useless outside of group play.

    While I was leveling my templar to V14 (before they nerfed vet xp and vet mobs) I had to avoid mobs because i couldn't kill them. When I had a quest to do I would have to run as fast as I could to get to the quest objective, get killed by the mobs (was no point in even trying to fight them) then res over and over until the quest was done.

    Things got easier after they nerfed the mobs, vet ranks, and gave jabs a heal. Now I mainly play on my Sorcerer and am much happier. I would rather be playing on my templar though.
  • Lettigall
    Lettigall
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Restoring Light skill line is biggest problem. Templars can't have strong dps skills, survivability tools, escape mechanism because of heals. Templars are marked as healers by default and if you don't want to heal there aren't big variety of skills that are worth slotting(my stamplar have only 2 templar abilities on skill bar from class skill tree...)
    Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!
  • NewBlacksmurf
    NewBlacksmurf
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to be rude but it's seems like a L2P issue.
    I have a Templar since closed beta and played a few roles and stuff ... It all comes down being flexible and prepared for each encounter. A so called build does you no good if it's not a natural read and reaction of how someone plays.
    Edited by NewBlacksmurf on November 16, 2015 9:57PM
    -PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
    ~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *501
  • tplink3r1
    tplink3r1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, Templars have some design problems(like the lack of AOE CC and escape), but the class isn't as bad as some people say it is.
    Edited by tplink3r1 on September 5, 2015 7:03PM
    VR16 Templar
    VR3 Sorcerer
  • danno8
    danno8
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    tplink3r1 wrote: »
    Yes, Templars have some design problems(like the lack of AOE CC and escape), but the class isn't as bad as some people say it is.

    No, it's not as horrible as some say. It's just that the other classes feel slick and polished to play but Templar feels like you are driving on hexagonal wheels. Maybe octagonal.
  • Prof_Bawbag
    Prof_Bawbag
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I agree, the class kinda sucks. Take boss fights, my only hope is to spam puncturing sweep. Without it, my character goes down faster than knickers on a ***.

    Reflective light in PvE is pretty awesome though. Chews through groups. My only issue with it is it sometimes doesn't fire off and half the time it ignores the closest target [the one you were aiming at, with the red aura] and hits enemies that pose no immediate danger, thus laying down aggro on another group at the same time.

    Edited by Prof_Bawbag on September 5, 2015 7:15PM
  • traigusb14_ESO2
    traigusb14_ESO2
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I disagree. It was never the worst class to play.

    I soloed through old Gold and Silver (when it was hard) with a templar.

    Every class can and does make lists of how their skills aren't as good as other classes skills.

    DPS isn't the end all and be all of if a class is good. Templars have a lot of group buffs and utility. Templars make other classes work better. It isn't as flashy and cool as being the top of the DPS meter in a group, but I have never been turned away from a group as a templar.



  • Tors
    Tors
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Change your idea behind the role of the Templar and its supremely powerful.

    Yeah we got meh dps and meh tanking. But Templar is support.

    Templar makes other classes truly deadly.

    This is a pain solo, but due in the IC and you will beat any other combo or more, 2 v 5 is not hard to kill if their templars don't play support.


    That said, there are some VERY good solo Templar players who dish massive dps in trials or just kill anything they face in PvP. Im not one of them, and I dont know how they do it (good latency and better player I guess, with the emphasis on better player)
    Better late Than Pregnant....
    The shadow cabinet, a group of people who pretend to have jobs they do not actually have

    EU PC - Azura's Star
    Decimation Elite - Raid Jester
  • Mitchblue
    Mitchblue
    ✭✭✭✭
    I stopped reading after this "I've played a Templar ever since beta stress testing was done."

    If you don't like the class, and have all these problem why are you still playing that class?
    Anyone else rooting for Molag Bal?
  • danno8
    danno8
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mitchblue wrote: »
    I stopped reading after this "I've played a Templar ever since beta stress testing was done."

    If you don't like the class, and have all these problem why are you still playing that class?

    Same reason people still played NB after release even though it was a buggy mess. They like the premise and want to stick with it.

    There are plenty of threads out there that offer great, thought out suggestions to make Templar more fun to play, and they are not all about DPS at all. It is more about removing or reworking mechanics that make Templar clunky.

    Do you like the faster speed on reflective light? That was one. How about the responsiveness of BoL. That was another. Templar just needs a few more tweaks to a few more skills, and a few passive reworks so they can shine in more than just the support/solo levelling role.
  • Mitchblue
    Mitchblue
    ✭✭✭✭
    danno8 wrote: »
    Mitchblue wrote: »
    I stopped reading after this "I've played a Templar ever since beta stress testing was done."

    If you don't like the class, and have all these problem why are you still playing that class?

    Same reason people still played NB after release even though it was a buggy mess. They like the premise and want to stick with it.

    There are plenty of threads out there that offer great, thought out suggestions to make Templar more fun to play, and they are not all about DPS at all. It is more about removing or reworking mechanics that make Templar clunky.

    Do you like the faster speed on reflective light? That was one. How about the responsiveness of BoL. That was another. Templar just needs a few more tweaks to a few more skills, and a few passive reworks so they can shine in more than just the support/solo levelling role.

    I get that, My second main is a Templar. But stick with it for 18 months? If they haven't liked it 18 months ago? Sometimes you need to move on and go with something else..
    Edited by Mitchblue on September 5, 2015 7:57PM
    Anyone else rooting for Molag Bal?
  • SeptimusDova
    SeptimusDova
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mitch sometimes people actually have the Courage of their convictions and thus champion for a cause. Those champions to date have gotten those fixes that many are now enjoying.
  • Molag_Crow
    Molag_Crow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Well... I don't care, I improvise and love my Templar no matter how weak it may seem.
    --ϟ-- Crows_Descend - Templar - Ebonheart Pact [PS4]&[PC] [EU] --ϟ--
    YoutTube ESO Playlist
    The greatest prison that people live in, is the fear of what other people think. - David Icke
    Be your true, authentic self.

  • Mitchblue
    Mitchblue
    ✭✭✭✭
    Mitch sometimes people actually have the Courage of their convictions and thus champion for a cause. Those champions to date have gotten those fixes that many are now enjoying.

    That's fine too. Argue all you need to, but maybe switch to a temp character in the meantime. Of course maybe they have, don't know. Not sure, and in-fact I know I wouldn't, have the conviction to play a class I don't enjoy for 18 months.

    :)
    Anyone else rooting for Molag Bal?
  • traigusb14_ESO2
    traigusb14_ESO2
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Mitch sometimes people actually have the Courage of their convictions and thus champion for a cause. Those champions to date have gotten those fixes that many are now enjoying.

    Championing changes is fine. Declaring the class is the worst ever damages the case.

    The OP would have more support with a "These templar skills need more work" topic rather that it is the worst designed class.

    Me and people like me now have to come into the thread and say. "The class isn't that bad" rather than support possible changes right off, and that muddies the topic. Then the supporters of other classes are going to show up for the circus on top of that.

    The drama really never pays off, because the devs read the non-drama threads too.







  • Slonekb05
    Slonekb05
    ✭✭✭
    www.youtube.com /channel/UCcPOtTRKIuUBb2uZnU57EUA <<< COPY AND PASTE TAKE OUT SPACES

    This is link to my youtube channel with my Paladin build, Im able to 2man every group dungeon so far. Not really sure why ppl think Templar's are weak, mine seems just fine.

    PS. Sorry, i could not figure out how to just send my Channel URL without it showing up as a video link.
    Edited by Slonekb05 on September 5, 2015 8:47PM
  • cazlonb16_ESO
    cazlonb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The OP would have more support with a "These templar skills need more work" topic rather that it is the worst designed class.[...]
    The drama really never pays off, because the devs read the non-drama threads too.

    I beg to differ.

    There have been multiple threads going into great detail about what is wrong with certain skills and how they could be improved. Some of them dozens of pages long.

    ZOS didn't give a...and in fact sunk the longest one ( it will not move up to the front page when a new post is added. Never seen that one before )

    Sorcs and NBs otoh staged massive whining campaigns with multiple threads with nothing but tears in them across all subforums. Coincidentally ( or maybe not ? ) they have been the two top classes in PvP for a while now, by some distance.

    Edited by cazlonb16_ESO on September 5, 2015 8:23PM
  • DigitalShibby
    DigitalShibby
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didn't read the entire post but imo Templars are just fine. My main is a Templar healer. I out dps people in vet dungeons, have yet to come across anyone who can heal better then me. I have been able to solo large groups of enemies in upper and lower craglorn since vet rank 4. Currently at vet rank 12 I hit like a truck, heal even harder and love my class. No issues here.
  • RinneganDovahkiin
    RinneganDovahkiin
    ✭✭✭
    You expect me to read this?
    Rinnegan Dovahkiin: Daedric Prince of Balance
  • SeptimusDova
    SeptimusDova
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @rinneganDovahkiin No It was in reference to Caz's post.
  • ontheleftcoast
    ontheleftcoast
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I honestly thought this was going be a rant on how OP Templars are. I have both a magicka and stamina Templar and they're both stupid powerful in PvE. At VR3 the magicka Templar was soloing mobs in UC and taking down the outdoor bosses like the Queen wasp or the big scorpion by DSA. The Stamplar took a little more work but now he can easily do the same. I'll readily admit my builds/playstyle aren't for everyone but I'm having a blast with them.
  • nimander99
    nimander99
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    This game was advertised as play the way you want... unfortunately playing a healer/sword and board tank with magica as my main resource makes me very weak... whereas just a week ago I was loving it (wasn't crazy powerful but I was competitive)

    So basically, play the way you want as long as you don't want to be competitive in pvp... if you want to be competitive then play as a NB, DK or Sorc ;)
    I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    ∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
    "Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
    "moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
    "MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
    "MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
    "MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
    "MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
    "MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
    "MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
    "MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
    "MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???

    Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP450
  • Vatter
    Vatter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I honestly thought this was going be a rant on how OP Templars are. I have both a magicka and stamina Templar and they're both stupid powerful in PvE. At VR3 the magicka Templar was soloing mobs in UC and taking down the outdoor bosses like the Queen wasp or the big scorpion by DSA. The Stamplar took a little more work but now he can easily do the same. I'll readily admit my builds/playstyle aren't for everyone but I'm having a blast with them.

    now the question is......have you taken your builds to Imperial city yet
  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    lol why did you remake this topic from pts?
    all i'm reading is l2p issues
    #MOREORBS
  • Vatter
    Vatter
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nifty2g wrote: »
    lol why did you remake this topic from pts?
    all i'm reading is l2p issues

    spoken like a true troll who has never played a templar and does nothing but go thread to thread trying to flame for insightfuls, agrees and awesomes. kinda pathetic actually.

    I moved this thread due to the update. it is no longer on pts. not sure if your as sharp as cotton or simply don't have the capacity for logical thinking.
Sign In or Register to comment.