I'm not really sure what to do in this game any more?

Tavore1138 · September 2015

Since IC has dropped and the brief pleasure of running round it a bit I'm sort of at a loss as to what to do in ESO any more...

Crafting is now dead because running routes feels less worthwhile when you get no XP and you can't craft anything to use from most of the mats anyway.

Dungeons may be harder by 2 levels but other than that they are the same - I guess there are the two new ones to learn but that is not going to keep me busy for that long.

'Real' PvP is dead as far as I can see.

PvP in IC is not the thrilling small scale skirmishing that we had been promised because big groups are in harvesting the mobs so you need to run in big groups or just avoid the big groups.

Soloing IC is a pain, possible but more effort than 4 or 8 or 12 stones is worth, especially if run over by a group soon after. Mobs are too close together to allow a solo player the necessary manoeuvrability to stay mobile without pulling other groups and with the cost increase to survival skills like dodge and break free it becomes harder to cope with 2 or 3 mobs who hit pretty hard.

The gear we're supposed to be grinding for just ain't that cool for the effort involved.

The 1,000+ bits of leather and metal I need to craft just one set of VR16 gear just don't seem worth the effort of repetitive mob killing in the hope they drop something I can refine for a single piece.

Nowhere fun to actually play gives enough XP to get CP anymore (so they solved that problem by accident). I'm sure there are some group grind spots still out there but that sort of repetitive grinding is dull dull dull.

It's like instead of setting me a target to reach to get good gear and xp - instead everything is just too far out of reach to be worth pursuing and so playing at all starts to feel like a waste of time...

I thought it would be hatred of the TV system that would make me rage quit but right now unless I can find something interesting to do then it will be the new epic boredom they have created that stops me playing.

Pangnirtung · September 2015

A big part of the appeal of MMOs is moving towards acquiring equipment and experience.

This update has killed that fun aspect of it at least for me.

Appleblade · September 2015

This is my first MMO, so I'm not really in the mindset of playing a game for years. I've gotten more hours out of ESO than any of the single player games (except New Vegas, but I'm getting close). But when I get burned out, OK, the ride was good. Time to move on. I'm hoping it won't be until Fallout 4 drops.

Tavore1138 · September 2015

Appleblade wrote: »

This is my first MMO, so I'm not really in the mindset of playing a game for years. I've gotten more hours out of ESO than any of the single player games (except New Vegas, but I'm getting close). But when I get burned out, OK, the ride was good. Time to move on. I'm hoping it won't be until Fallout 4 drops.

My first MMO too but I'd been enjoying it since day -5 and I've been known to play a good offline game for a long time especially one with variations in paths through it or skill choices so with the PvP and the group stuff this seemed like a potential one that I could stick with as long as the content kept dropping.

I'll be interested to see over the next couple of weeks how many other voice similar concerns because I very much doubt many people tested the 'base game' when on PTS but focused on the new stuff but if others find the base game's appeal has paled, especially when going VR15/16 so that activities in existing zones become unrewarding, then ZOS may need to do some quick thinking to keep people onboard.

Cuyler · September 2015

IMHO a pvp centric dlc is one of the worst ideas ever. I guess it's better than nothing tho. In a perfect world a new pve and pvp zone would be released simultaneously every quarter.

Francescolg · September 2015

Same for me, the game feels much less attractive for solo / casual play. No more incentives for me. No more "hanging around" in pvp, no more lots of funny skirmishes, no more 'easy' daily random undaunted quests, etc. no more "nice and random" zerg battles at choke points or keeps, etc. These used to be much fun, even if the people playing in pro-setup / organized groups can not understand, what is attractive about "zerging"...

My motivation after this patch was published has gone towards zero. Too many reasons to write them down but thanks to you for doing so!

Funkopotamus · September 2015

Appleblade wrote: »

This is my first MMO, so I'm not really in the mindset of playing a game for years. I've gotten more hours out of ESO than any of the single player games (except New Vegas, but I'm getting close). But when I get burned out, OK, the ride was good. Time to move on. I'm hoping it won't be until Fallout 4 drops.

Yeah the decisions ZOS have made to the game make it seem like they made a point to target your type of gamer.. Not that it is a "bad thing..

It is not what MMO's are supposed to be. MMO's were made as a change from single player "Finished it and move on" type of game.

jkemmery · September 2015

I think one of the issues is that you need 10 times the number of mats to make a V16 as you do a V15 set. That's basically a big "Screw You!" from ZOS. Kind of ridiculous. It rewards the people who have nothing better to do than play. Another way that people who can't devote 8 hours a day, 7 days a week to the game are getting pushed out. It's a huge mistake, Zenimax, a huge mistake!

Kaspar · September 2015

If you don't know what to do in game anymore... it's working!

DovresMalven · September 2015

Francescolg wrote: »

Same for me, the game feels much less attractive for solo / casual play. No more incentives for me. No more "hanging around" in pvp, no more lots of funny skirmishes, no more 'easy' daily random undaunted quests, etc. no more "nice and random" zerg battles at choke points or keeps, etc. These used to be much fun, even if the people playing in pro-setup / organized groups can not understand, what is attractive about "zerging"...

My motivation after this patch was published has gone towards zero. Too many reasons to write them down but thanks to you for doing so!

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Appleblade wrote: »

This is my first MMO, so I'm not really in the mindset of playing a game for years. I've gotten more hours out of ESO than any of the single player games (except New Vegas, but I'm getting close). But when I get burned out, OK, the ride was good. Time to move on. I'm hoping it won't be until Fallout 4 drops.

Yeah the decisions ZOS have made to the game make it seem like they made a point to target your type of gamer.. Not that it is a "bad thing..

It is not what MMO's are supposed to be. MMO's were made as a change from single player "Finished it and move on" type of game.

Too me they seem completely confused as to who their target audience is. Maybe because they have a certain fish on the hook, and they cant let it loose... or they'll starve. Even if fishing a different river would be more fruitful.

Appleblade · September 2015

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Appleblade wrote: »

This is my first MMO, so I'm not really in the mindset of playing a game for years. I've gotten more hours out of ESO than any of the single player games (except New Vegas, but I'm getting close). But when I get burned out, OK, the ride was good. Time to move on. I'm hoping it won't be until Fallout 4 drops.

Yeah the decisions ZOS have made to the game make it seem like they made a point to target your type of gamer.. Not that it is a "bad thing..

It is not what MMO's are supposed to be. MMO's were made as a change from single player "Finished it and move on" type of game.

Going after more than one market is a logical thing. I have no idea if the two are distinct or If there is a lot of overlap. Most big MMO players I know also play offline games nearly as much.

My personal favorite is co-op where you and friends play the main game together- Borderlands, Saints Row and the vastly underrated Dead Space 3.

AshTal · September 2015

PvP is still better in Cyrodil than the zerg fest that is IC, the problem is the campaign looks even matched but 50-99% of each side is in IC so at some times of the day it seems like we have 3 people fighting 30 for a keep and later it switches round. Yes I am not a good PvPer so if I see we are out number full vs Low pop I give it a miss. However now I weight to queue and then get killed.

Also crafting now seems a joke. Crafting sets are worse and the matts require me to PvP in IC so I have to go in there

In fairness IC is probably better now in 5 months it will be a ghost town and the elite mobs will slaughter the small groups or solo players.

Lord Xanhorn · September 2015

Sorry didnt read all of it cause you say you dont like solo content, group content is old, PVP is stale, and nothing is exciting. Maybe time to move on if nothing in the game is fun to you.

me_ming · September 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Mobs are too close together to allow a solo player the necessary manoeuvrability to stay mobile without pulling other groups and with the cost increase to survival skills like dodge and break free it becomes harder to cope with 2 or 3 mobs who hit pretty hard.

This one!!! This is what makes IC very difficult to play solo.

Tavore1138 · September 2015

On targetting:

I think they intended to target the massive audience that played Skyrim and prior TES games and obviously RPG players in general.

I'm sure they were after MMO players too but the market is pretty busy and as people point out MMOs, other MMOs anyway, set out to retain players so going after a large untapped set of RPG players who could be tempted online by a familiar name is a tactic that worked very will for WoW and at least partly as well for FF and others.

And judging from these boards at the start and the number of players perceived as 'casuals' I suspect they succeeded to a point.

But as they have lost key staff and appear to have decided to listen mainly to a very small number of 'pro' players the game has morphed from being a very inclusive one to one that increasingly excludes a significant number of players.

The move to B2P has obviously not helped in the direction of the game because while some of the IC decision can be blamed on poor vision and the questionable change in direction on the devs side I think that the decisions to lock things like crafting materials behind IC is purely a money driven decision from accountancy/marketing people who do not care much if we enjoy the content as long as we pay for it before quitting, by their nature they will not care much if we quit because most of those type of people worry about the now not the future.

splat71 · September 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Soloing IC is a pain, possible but more effort than 4 or 8 or 12 stones is worth, especially if run over by a group soon after. Mobs are too close together to allow a solo player the necessary manoeuvrability to stay mobile without pulling other groups and with the cost increase to survival skills like dodge and break free it becomes harder to cope with 2 or 3 mobs who hit pretty hard.

The gear we're supposed to be grinding for just ain't that cool for the effort involved.

100% agree. The TV rewards aren't worth the effort required.

Wycks · September 2015

I agree, I guess 'll just play less. I was an avid PvPer (top ten almost every week) and now PvP is not interesting.

1. Cyrodil is dead.
2. Less skill is now rewarded
3. IC is zerg to win and I hate zergs.
4. It's a pain to solo or even duo IC, it's just not fun fighting long battles, ZERGS with hard pve content mixed in, and for what?

Last night on Haderus IC players from 3 factions just stood around to duel and jump around, it was pointless to play the stone merry go round and everyone is now realizing it.

It was the most boring PvP experience ever.

Some fixes which might help.

Restrict access to IC how it was originally planned with a 1-2 hour window for access to all between flips. This will create meaning, community, be good for pvers and bring pvp back to cyrodil.
Bring skill back to the game and not stupid blanket nerfs.
Bring rewards back to PvP based on rank and AP.
Stop mixing pve in pvp and vice versa, see point #1
Remove purge, barrier from the game and stop coming up with anti zerg skills that actually help zergs, see point #6
Hire new pvp and combat mechanic developers.

...for a start...

nimander99 · September 2015

Think about it. The only content that has been added to the game since launch has been group or pvp related content... yet I think its safe to say that the majority of the player base play solo and group occasionally... maybe not the forum warriors who'll troll me for this comment, but; C'est la vie

leeux · September 2015

I have to confess that I have the same feelings as you OP.

I've been subbed to this game since March 27 2014, and I'm contemplating for the first to let the sub phase out.

Dagoth_Rac · September 2015

I know they want to push people to buy the DLC, but the XP in the base game is now unbelievably awful. It is just a complete waste of time to play anything but the DLC content. It is one thing to have a PvP update. But making base PvE and the rest of the game suddenly have such awful rewards and progress is a bad move. For a max level player, Lower Craglorn gives 64% less XP compared to last week. For a max level player, the VR10 solo zone gives 57% less XP. The crafting materials and drops in the non-DLC are pathetic. Upper Craglorn gives 20% more XP, but the base XP in Upper Craglorn was horrible already and 20% more is still much, much weaker than the DLC. Public dungeon XP was doubled, but again the base XP for them was so bad that you still need to kill about 15 mobs to get the XP of killing 1 mob in Imperial City.

The non-PvP player base is likely to get frustrated and leave well before Orsinium is released.

And I do PvP! My guild has had a group of 8-10 in Imperial City every night. But this is niche content. If you are going to nerf everything about the game into the ground that is outside the DLC, you need to have DLC with broader appeal. Telling people uninterested in PvP or Imperial City to wait three or four months is one thing. But you need to give those players something, anything worthwhile and productive to do between now and the next DLC. There is zero meaningful character progression outside Imperial City right now. No one wants to run in place for months on end.

Majic · September 2015

Do What You Must

I got off the bus a couple of months ago when ZOS announced VR16. It has since been impossible to shake the feeling that ESO is more like an early access game whose basic features are constantly being shifted around than a viable virtual world worthy of a major time investment.

It's too bad, because ESO has so much going for it, including rich lore, unique combat mechanics and exceptionally beautiful graphics, but they are undermined by a growing penchant for haphazard and capricious changes to core game systems. It's like keeping money in a bank that randomly changes your account balance from week to week.

I'm hopeful that ZOS will follow through with some of its longer-term initiatives, like getting rid of the veteran ranks, because I won't be coming back until those are gone. Having pointlessly chased shifting level caps in other games, I won't be doing it again here.

Deciding what to do when a game is in the condition that currently afflicts ESO isn't easy. When we play games like these, we pour a lot of our time, energy and soul into them, meet other players, make friends, form guilds and share good times and bad together. Throwing up our hands and walking away after doing so much isn't just a practical decision, but an emotional one.

It's not my place to decide for someone else what to do, or even make strong recommendations, really, so I'm just offering my perspective as a dormant player who happens to have stopped by today to check in before taking the next step of uninstalling the game client to make room for other things.

As such a player, I advise against relying on unrealistic expectations about how quickly the game will change. It takes time to turn a big ship like ESO around, and though big changes can indeed happen overnight, far more often they must take place gradually over several months. And that's assuming a commitment to making them actually exists, and persists throughout the long, hard road to bringing them to fruition.

I also advise maintaining a positive outlook and "keeping an eye on this space", so to speak. ESO has gone through some very difficult times, and it's not clear that the worst is yet over. However, it still has many exceptional qualities, and still has immense potential -- if ZOS proves able to unleash it.

That's what I'm hoping for, and I'm willing to wait and see how it goes. Until then, there's plenty of other things to do, and plenty of other places in which to do them.

Whatever your choices, and those of anyone reading this, I wish you happiness and fulfillment, wherever your path may take you.

Avonna · September 2015

i went on steam and downloaded three games....i will play those for a bit.. im kinda done with eso until they get it together.

listen to your players, ( all of them ) and fix this mess.

like mentioned above,, the game looks great ....but we all know looks fade.. its whats on the inside that counts...and right now...it's a mess in there.

to those still rocking it... good luck and happy hunting!

peace out

avonna

sadownik · September 2015

Majic wrote: »

Do What You Must

I got off the bus a couple of months ago when ZOS announced VR16. It has since been impossible to shake the feeling that ESO is more like an early access game whose basic features are constantly being shifted around than a viable virtual world worthy of a major time investment.

It's too bad, because ESO has so much going for it, including rich lore, unique combat mechanics and exceptionally beautiful graphics, but they are undermined by a growing penchant for haphazard and capricious changes to core game systems. It's like keeping money in a bank that randomly changes your account balance from week to week.

I'm hopeful that ZOS will follow through with some of its longer-term initiatives, like getting rid of the veteran ranks, because I won't be coming back until those are gone. Having pointlessly chased shifting level caps in other games, I won't be doing it again here.

Deciding what to do when a game is in the condition that currently afflicts ESO isn't easy. When we play games like these, we pour a lot of our time, energy and soul into them, meet other players, make friends, form guilds and share good times and bad together. Throwing up our hands and walking away after doing so much isn't just a practical decision, but an emotional one.

It's not my place to decide for someone else what to do, or even make strong recommendations, really, so I'm just offering my perspective as a dormant player who happens to have stopped by today to check in before taking the next step of uninstalling the game client to make room for other things.

As such a player, I advise against relying on unrealistic expectations about how quickly the game will change. It takes time to turn a big ship like ESO around, and though big changes can indeed happen overnight, far more often they must take place gradually over several months. And that's assuming a commitment to making them actually exists, and persists throughout the long, hard road to bringing them to fruition.

I also advise maintaining a positive outlook and "keeping an eye on this space", so to speak. ESO has gone through some very difficult times, and it's not clear that the worst is yet over. However, it still has many exceptional qualities, and still has immense potential -- if ZOS proves able to unleash it.

That's what I'm hoping for, and I'm willing to wait and see how it goes. Until then, there's plenty of other things to do, and plenty of other places in which to do them.

Whatever your choices, and those of anyone reading this, I wish you happiness and fulfillment, wherever your path may take you.

Very well written message, you managed to express exactly how i feel. Logging in after almost 1.5 month to check ic for 2 evenings convinced me to let it go for now. I will keep an eye on the game but for me, as rather casual and mostly pvp player there is not much to do right now.

Morimizo · September 2015

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I know they want to push people to buy the DLC, but the XP in the base game is now unbelievably awful. It is just a complete waste of time to play anything but the DLC content. It is one thing to have a PvP update. But making base PvE and the rest of the game suddenly have such awful rewards and progress is a bad move. .

Agree; I can't help but wonder,

If XP was increased for most things, and it takes less XP to earn each Vet Rank;

But skills, stats, and gear are significantly nerfed, while NPC enemies are made considerably stronger/able to use abilities more often and effectively;

Doesn't it still take the same amount of time to level? I have found this to be the case, or close to it,

So why bother making the change at all, other than to transparently limit CP growth, and force everyone into buying the DLC?

Tavore1138 · September 2015

My sub runs out in October so I will probably not make a final decision until then - they could easily turn this around with a few relatively minor changes:

- Announce Orsinium Information NOW, make it clear that it will be aimed primarily at solo players and that the crafting mats for VR15/16 will be available in the usual manner once it is live. By all means stick a dungeon, a trial and even a 1v1 PvP arena in to give some love to everyone BUT solo players have had ZERO new content since launch.
- Reconsider how XP works for VR15/16 PvE or mixed PvE/P players who are now excluded from getting XP anywhere overland but Upper Craglorn.
- Consider Cyrodiil based access limits to IC in at least some of the campaigns.
- Put some proper PvP objectives into IC rather than this unfocused nonsense. (Control of areas or buildings or something where PvP players can play tactically while also enabling their alliance to do quests without having quest points camped.)
- Tweak distance between mobs in IC to make solo/duo play more viable.
- Reconsider access to new crafting materials.
- Tone down battle spirit nerfs, the idea is interesting and does increase TTK which is fair enough but it favours certain styles over others and that is never cool.
- Reconsider throwing so many nerfs at the stamina people all in one patch - balance corrections should be done with a scalpel not with a meat cleaver.

Mitchblue · September 2015

Appleblade wrote: »

This is my first MMO, so I'm not really in the mindset of playing a game for years. I've gotten more hours out of ESO than any of the single player games (except New Vegas, but I'm getting close). But when I get burned out, OK, the ride was good. Time to move on. I'm hoping it won't be until Fallout 4 drops.

Agree. I've already got my money's worth so if I decide to stop no worries. Not only Fallout 4 but I'm looking forward to some other fall games..

CaptainObvious · September 2015

So here is the problem with cut access. That is the only place with at level monsters.

Every action they took was designed to drag out gameplay for all players universally.

- New, but still useless guards on common thief paths.
- V10 is useless for XP once you hit V15. Craglorn got nowhere near the XP buff it should have gotten.
- Trophies/green/bluefish cannot be banked
- Damage overall was nerfed.
- PvP damage was nerfed
- Shields were nerfed
- More things require daily writs to acquire.
- V16 crafting resource requirements...
- V15 gear is only obtainable at IC and decons to 1 a pop.

The game is at lap dancer on crack right now wrt grinding. Since they nullified ROI on the free content, gotta give access which may in turn drive up sales. People gotta keep up with the Joneses.

splat71 · September 2015

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

My sub runs out in October so I will probably not make a final decision until then - they could easily turn this around with a few relatively minor changes:

- Announce Orsinium Information NOW, make it clear that it will be aimed primarily at solo players and that the crafting mats for VR15/16 will be available in the usual manner once it is live. By all means stick a dungeon, a trial and even a 1v1 PvP arena in to give some love to everyone BUT solo players have had ZERO new content since launch.

Absolutely this! Giving the solo player something to look forward to would do wonders towards keeping a certain segment of the player base.

FireCowCommando · September 2015

Yeah the crafting thing is a let down, i figure i might as well keep researching up to all 9 traits for the PvE DLC this year.

Teiji · September 2015

leeux wrote: »

I have to confess that I have the same feelings as you OP.

I've been subbed to this game since March 27 2014, and I'm contemplating for the first to let the sub phase out.

I've been a member since January 7, 2014;

The Elder Scrolls Online was a game which was great, the community was aware of the creative direction of the game.

In Quakecon 2014 we were told about new game systems. There isn't much class identity common to other MMORPG games, such as class quests, class gear and so on - this makes sense but only if you develop guilds in order to accommodate roles in order to augment role identity.

Spell crafting was the begining of this. And was done through the Mages Guild

Spellcrafting with Nick Konkle

You are going to be able to find and combine various spell effects in the game and create new abilities you can put on your hotbar.
It is a bound system that is not completely unbalancing the game.
It might be something you can only do after you have completed the Mage Guild quest line.
Mage Guild discover new ancient doorways and found new ways to organize magic.
A lot of exploration in this system, you get a spell that summon a ball you have to chase to find the various ancient doorways located all over the world.
Inside the doorways you will find stone tablets. Some are whole, some are broken into pieces and scattered all over the world.
Using an interactive UI, similar to lockpicking, you will be using charcoal and paper on the tablet to recreate the spell and collect it.Once you collected the spell, you throw them into a book of all the spells you have collected.

If you're interested in the whole article, head on over to http://dulfy.net/2014/07/18/eso-quakecon-the-future-of-eso-panel-notes/#Spellcrafting_with_Nicke_Konkle

That said, the game The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited is a completely different entity in and of itself. It's became a better MMORPG, but it needs to become a better Elder Scrolls experience through building upon the game through implementing and developing more game systems which help accommodate players through building upon the lack of class identity by using Guilds such as Fighters, Mages, Undaunted, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild and possibly more such as Werewolf, Vampire and Dawnbreaker NPC guilds with their own relevant skill lines and activities which are more interactive than "go here, kill X for very low RNG roll on X" which provide long to short term development with lots of player progression. You finish the Fighter's Guild questline and then all you have to look forward to is picking up a daily quest from Cyrodiil which rewards gold.

The same way you built up reputation and standing with House Hlaalu on Morrowind, the South Wall Cornerclub in Balmora and so on.

There's been a solid foundation to be built on for a long time now. They even had jewelcrafting early-beta and removed it because it was too complicated apparently, they also removed lots of quests from Imperial City as it was apparently "Too much to keep up with, making it difficult to know what was going on in Imperial City with so many quests going on."

Spellcrafting needs to happen within the next 12 to 15 months. It expands upon the Mages Guild and it expands upon player progression as well as player activities. It's fundamentally necessary for the long term health of the game to be positive, I'd say more so than ceasing stamina regeneration upon blocking.

I bought IC DLC on day 1, never played it due to queues, days later I play with what appears to be light attack GCD for 10 minutes before alt-f4ing.

I shall gladly resubscribe when the creative direction of the game is clearly progressing in a direction which expands upon TESO: TU being an MMORPG and an Elder Scrolls game through implementing game systems which expand upon role / class identity, giving the Guilds more of a role in the game world and allowing players to experience Spell crafting as we were told about in Quakecon 2014 so that we may look forward to Conjuration, Illusion, Alteration, Mysticism and others. This includes but is not limited to, summoning Dremora.

Kuroinu · September 2015

@Teiji - It's what frustrates me the most, knowing something is possible but is never realized.

This game still feels in a state of transition, but like you said it's not clear where it's going. This game does have potential, it's why I stopped playing another MMO to play this, I just hope this potential doesn't become a missed opportunity.