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ESO dilemma
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WRX✭✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
At his point i think its safe to say. People still play, but would they if there was still a subscription? It hasnt failed for everyone but it damn sure did fail to deliver what was first promoted.
The sheer number of copies the game has managed to sell on PS4, Xbox, and PC makes it not a failure.
It also consistently sells very well...and will continue to do so..and despite what i think about this patch..That doesn't change reality and no amount of butthurt about this patch will change that either.
Many aspects of this game has completely failed. This is my first MMO, and as I branch out, it becomes apparent what the failures in ESO were.
This game is very fortunate it has the Elder Scrolls title, the players are not.Decibel GM
GLUB GLUB0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
At his point i think its safe to say. People still play, but would they if there was still a subscription? It hasnt failed for everyone but it damn sure did fail to deliver what was first promoted.
The sheer number of copies the game has managed to sell on PS4, Xbox, and PC makes it not a failure.
It also consistently sells very well...and will continue to do so..and despite what i think about this patch..That doesn't change reality and no amount of butthurt about this patch will change that either.
Many aspects of this game has completely failed. This is my first MMO, and as I branch out, it becomes apparent what the failures in ESO were.
This game is very fortunate it has the Elder Scrolls title, the players are not.
See that's your problem..this is your first MMO, you truly don't know what failure is.
I've been playing them since Beta of UO....and I've seen countless failures..This game isn't even close to it.... in fact I can safely say that there isn't a developer out there today except maybe Blizzard that wouldn't give their left nut for ESO numbers
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos1 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »
K. What do you use to put out the burning building? Water
B. But im a gasoline guy and i will never equip the FOTM water. We need to buff gasoline so i can put fires out with it also. no fair :'(
K. Is it possible to remove FOTM ?
K. I think everyone would have to be using the same exact build.
B. Everyone equip gasoline.
K. What about play how you want?
B. Oh yeah.....
B. So that means the way i want to play might not be the most effective way all the time.
K. Yep theres a lot going on in cyrodiil. You might run into a 1v1 on the way to a keep. One minute later still on the way to the keep you run into three players. You get to the keep and theres a big battle going on. You can really limit yourself by what build and play style you are currently using depending on what type of fight your engaged in.
B. I hate to see that guy out there doing all that 1vx looking like a raid boss. I cant do that with my daggers and bow he souldnt either. All my attacks just bounce right off him.
K. Well did you drain his stamina? Did you heal debuff him? Did you drop a fire balista or meatbag? Did any sorc attempt to drop a negate or just use storm atro and overload. Do you even know how he makes it work or just assume exploit?
B. No
B. No
B. Siege LOL no. arrows only I dont have time to go buy and use siege
B. No negates need more dmg.
B. No but theres no way he should be able to do that he is exploiting/hacking
B. Im not changing my build to be better prepared for what i encounter in cyrodiil. I will just complain till everyone no matter what build is equal. I will never use a staff, light armor, or sword and shield. Plus i cant use purge or anything magicka because im STAMINA no magicka allowed thats to FOTM. I should be able to do the same thing every build does. No more this counters that and that counters this. No matter the situation or type of battle i should be just as effective in any scenario.
B. I dont care if water puts out fire. I'm going to use gasoline and complain even though I dont understand the game. I dont have time to, I only play for 1 or 2 hours anyways. I just got this game because it was skyrim multiplayer. I have never played an MMO before.
----patch 1.6 is introduced----
B. Alright! i like this! I dont care that i die instantly im killing people too.
K. Yeah not bad i only had to completely change the way i approach the game and how i play. No biggie. So much for play how you want.
B. Hey atleast im using siege now its so easy so much DMG.
K. It always did DMG, and turned the tides of battle you just never bothered to use it until it started one shotting people.
B. So many people ganking now i wonder why
K. Must be because the changes now makes that way of play FOTM. Hey you are now FOTM.
B. Yeah i dont care i'm either ganking or with my faction 40 strong taking over things. Feels like war again so much fun.
K. Yep lucky for you. You only play 1-2 hours a day. That doesnt get boring at all.
----Couple months later---
B. Ok im getting tired of this now. All these shield stacking sorcs and NBs are killing me before i can react.
K. Seems like theres a new FOTM.
B. Yep and im not going to shield stack or w.e it is they are doing just like before. Time for another patch to even the playing field.
---2.1--
B. This is better i still suck but at least im not dieing instantly. Ohh and even though i myself know im bad im still going to complain because i know whats right. It doesnt matter that the skilled players are able to do it, and trying to help me by telling me what skills and gear to use i wont.. If i cant do it then the game is not designed right.
K. PvP and MMOs are not for you.
I drink your tears.Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches.
You already admit to being a slow learner and bad. You never drink tears. Im not trying to make fun of you or anything but actually trying to help you, as hard as it seems.1 -
hammayolettuce✭✭✭✭✭
✭hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
As totally irrelevant as the above quote is, it would be borderline moronic for one to assume a game is successful based on sales without knowing cost to produce, company overhead vis-a-vis income, or considering its failed potential to revitalize a stagnant genre ... not to mention the bevy of pre-release marketing which ended up being false or the hemorrhaging of hardcore players. But only borderline.
Edited by hammayolettuce on September 3, 2015 10:37PM♥ Snü (Magicka DK) ♥ Thnu (Stamplar) ♥ Pizza for Breakfast (Magplar) ♥ Sparklefingers (Magicka Sorc) ♥♥ Bean and Cheese Burrito (Magicka DK) ♥ Snurrito (Stamplar) ♥DARFAL COVANT5 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
At his point i think its safe to say. People still play, but would they if there was still a subscription? It hasnt failed for everyone but it damn sure did fail to deliver what was first promoted.
The sheer number of copies the game has managed to sell on PS4, Xbox, and PC makes it not a failure.
It also consistently sells very well...and will continue to do so..and despite what i think about this patch..That doesn't change reality and no amount of butthurt about this patch will change that either.
Many aspects of this game has completely failed. This is my first MMO, and as I branch out, it becomes apparent what the failures in ESO were.
This game is very fortunate it has the Elder Scrolls title, the players are not.
See that's your problem..this is your first MMO, you truly don't know what failure is.
I've been playing them since Beta of UO....and I've seen countless failures..This game isn't even close to it.... in fact I can safely say that there isn't a developer out there today except maybe Blizzard that wouldn't give their left nut for ESO numbers
All because the title Elder Scrolls. Not the actual game. ESO0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
At his point i think its safe to say. People still play, but would they if there was still a subscription? It hasnt failed for everyone but it damn sure did fail to deliver what was first promoted.
This.
I waited so long for Imperial City, i always sat back quietly waiting for ZOS to wake up and deliver justice while everyone around me was losing hope. This patch was such a huge disappointment for me, but the fact we actually got the DLC this patch makes it even worse to swallow. This was supposed to be the patch i re-subbed for, not going to happen now.The Age of Wrobel.2 -
WRX✭✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
At his point i think its safe to say. People still play, but would they if there was still a subscription? It hasnt failed for everyone but it damn sure did fail to deliver what was first promoted.
The sheer number of copies the game has managed to sell on PS4, Xbox, and PC makes it not a failure.
It also consistently sells very well...and will continue to do so..and despite what i think about this patch..That doesn't change reality and no amount of butthurt about this patch will change that either.
Many aspects of this game has completely failed. This is my first MMO, and as I branch out, it becomes apparent what the failures in ESO were.
This game is very fortunate it has the Elder Scrolls title, the players are not.
See that's your problem..this is your first MMO, you truly don't know what failure is.
I've been playing them since Beta of UO....and I've seen countless failures..This game isn't even close to it.... in fact I can safely say that there isn't a developer out there today except maybe Blizzard that wouldn't give their left nut for ESO numbers
I said in many ways ESO has failed, especially when it comes to its players. Sure this game racked in loads of money, and in that sense is a success.
Decibel GM
GLUB GLUB0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
At his point i think its safe to say. People still play, but would they if there was still a subscription? It hasnt failed for everyone but it damn sure did fail to deliver what was first promoted.
The sheer number of copies the game has managed to sell on PS4, Xbox, and PC makes it not a failure.
It also consistently sells very well...and will continue to do so..and despite what i think about this patch..That doesn't change reality and no amount of butthurt about this patch will change that either.
Again because the title name Elder Scrolls, and because it went b2p and lost the sub..
Funny part is i havent played in months. Just sad to see the game go down and down. When that next ES and or MMO game comes out this one is done for.0 -
DezIsDead✭✭✭✭These *** people in here are making krim's point. Krim's easily one of the best players I have ever ran with or been led by, and yes, all that takes skill.
People that don't care do be good at something or even invest small amounts of time into understanding, really shouldn't come in here and complain because they have no idea what they are talking about.
I hate this instant satisfaction, lets all be the same garbage. I don't understand how people seriously have this mentality, and to me its a sad joke.
Unfortunately this new patch is fun for the gear grind, but is quickly losing me. Meaningful fights are impossible to have consistently.
yeah im already tired of IC and just want to PvP in old fashioned cyrodill. but there arent any fights to be had atmDez Is Dead vr16 AD Sorc
Rez Dez vr16 DC sorc
Aimer Cantentius VR16 DC NB AKA Needs Vigor
Vanreimus Comeback DC DK
Ihealedurmum VR8 AD temp
Unonti VR crafting sloot
Zoschasedawaymyfweinds EP Temp3 -
These *** people in here are making krim's point. Krim's easily one of the best players I have ever ran with or been led by, and yes, all that takes skill.
People that don't care do be good at something or even invest small amounts of time into understanding, really shouldn't come in here and complain because they have no idea what they are talking about.
See, the thing is, there's too much assumption that the people who aren't good don't care, or haven't invested any time in understanding, or don't know what they're talking about.
At the same time, the rhetoric seems to be that kill counts are a form of authority on the matter of PvP, when we can't even discern or agree between the difference between skill and exploit.
Both are wrongheaded.
Just because you've found your little niche with whatever class/skill/armor combo to put you on the scoreboards, doesn't mean it's so obvious to anyone else who is putting in honest effort. Of course, it takes work, but you judge too quickly when you say yours is the right amount of effort to be rewarded just because you've succeeded.
I'm happy I won't eat it instantly from two or three attacks. I am pleased I'll actually have some ability to see the effects of my attacks and defenses without needing perfect counter every time. I'm glad I won't necessarily forget everything I learned on the boring 2 minute horseride back only to be face with a different scenario I wasn't prepared for.
And I have a special kind of schadenfreude for the folks who crow about how important skill, time, and effort are when the new damage nerfs give noobs more opportunity to learn and they've lost little but the added time it takes to kill them, all nerfed equally.0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »These *** people in here are making krim's point. Krim's easily one of the best players I have ever ran with or been led by, and yes, all that takes skill.
People that don't care do be good at something or even invest small amounts of time into understanding, really shouldn't come in here and complain because they have no idea what they are talking about.
Both are wrongheaded.
Just because you've found your little niche with whatever class/skill/armor combo to put you on the scoreboards, doesn't mean it's so obvious to anyone else who is putting in honest effort. Of course, it takes work, but you judge too quickly when you say yours is the right amount of effort to be rewarded just because you've succeeded.
The point of this post is to point out that its always been about how fights go down and cyrodiil and how people prepare and approach them. The tools have always been there in the game for players to use. A sneak build typically using a bow is great for attack straggling enemies and bursting them quickly. Not very good for fighting on flags or vs multiple enemies. This is where you have to realize that depending on what your doing in cyrodiil. You have to know your limits. When you become a veteran of the game you might have tweaked your build to allow you to contribute no matter if your rushing a keep flag, picking off straglers or standing on a keep wall ranging enemies down.
The game went away from this.Edited by krim on September 3, 2015 10:59PM3 -
coryrenick_ESO wrote: »These *** people in here are making krim's point. Krim's easily one of the best players I have ever ran with or been led by, and yes, all that takes skill.
People that don't care do be good at something or even invest small amounts of time into understanding, really shouldn't come in here and complain because they have no idea what they are talking about.
Both are wrongheaded.
Just because you've found your little niche with whatever class/skill/armor combo to put you on the scoreboards, doesn't mean it's so obvious to anyone else who is putting in honest effort. Of course, it takes work, but you judge too quickly when you say yours is the right amount of effort to be rewarded just because you've succeeded.
The point of this post is to point out that its always been about how fights go down and cyrodiil and how people prepare and approach them. The tools have always been there in the game for players to use. A sneak build typically using a bow is great for attack straggling enemies and bursting them quickly. Not very good for fighting on flags or vs multiple enemies. This is where you have to realize that depending on what your doing in cyrodiil. You have to know your limits. When you become a veteran of the game you might have tweaked your build to allow you to contribute no matter if your rushing a keep flag or standing on a keep wall ranging enemies down.
See, here again. You need to be able to use the tools. You have to be able to test your limits. To tweak your build you have to have some kind of feedback in their effectiveness. If the only feedback you ever got was two or three 12K hits and a trip back to base, it's not going to provide you opportunity for tool use, limits testing, or tweaking your build. The damage nerf provides all of that for anyone willing to take the time to learn, and the only thing it's costing is a little extra time from the folk who claim it's all about skill.
Furthermore, anyone who isn't picking up the meta but is still willing to put in effort is just getting pushed into the zerg.0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well you have the kernel of a really cool concept here.Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Anyone I know whos able to do great things in PvP now, has already died his or her thousand deaths back in the days. Theres a simple truth behind becoming good, "skilled" or whatever. Fail. Fail hard & fail often. Failing is your friend. It forces you to learn. After a while you will realize what made you fail, develop answers and become decent.
You have two closely related but separate ideas mashed together here.
First: failure is necessary to learn. Yes, true, wonderful and totally agree with you.
Second: Learning is always possible with failure.
Not always true. In martial arts, I call it "the flinch"; if the attack (practice attack, whatever) comes in too fast, and triggers panic, the person isn't able to learn from that particular experience - in fact that type of experience is often counter-productive and can teach failure.
It's related to the physiology of fear; in humans a little fear aids learning, a lot inhibits it.
So slowing TTK on ZoS part is actually quite a clever move.
It changes "the flinch" (a death recap a whole page long that the person looks at glazed-ly and says 'huh' to), to a more comprehensible death /fail which is something that can much more easily be processed.
Yes, in a way it's dumbing down the game; but for the vast majority of players it might make the difference in what and how fast they can learn to be more effective.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis2 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »coryrenick_ESO wrote: »These *** people in here are making krim's point. Krim's easily one of the best players I have ever ran with or been led by, and yes, all that takes skill.
People that don't care do be good at something or even invest small amounts of time into understanding, really shouldn't come in here and complain because they have no idea what they are talking about.
Both are wrongheaded.
Just because you've found your little niche with whatever class/skill/armor combo to put you on the scoreboards, doesn't mean it's so obvious to anyone else who is putting in honest effort. Of course, it takes work, but you judge too quickly when you say yours is the right amount of effort to be rewarded just because you've succeeded.
The point of this post is to point out that its always been about how fights go down and cyrodiil and how people prepare and approach them. The tools have always been there in the game for players to use. A sneak build typically using a bow is great for attack straggling enemies and bursting them quickly. Not very good for fighting on flags or vs multiple enemies. This is where you have to realize that depending on what your doing in cyrodiil. You have to know your limits. When you become a veteran of the game you might have tweaked your build to allow you to contribute no matter if your rushing a keep flag or standing on a keep wall ranging enemies down.
See, here again. You need to be able to use the tools. You have to be able to test your limits. To tweak your build you have to have some kind of feedback in their effectiveness. If the only feedback you ever got was two or three 12K hits and a trip back to base, it's not going to provide you opportunity for tool use, limits testing, or tweaking your build. The damage nerf provides all of that for anyone willing to take the time to learn, and the only thing it's costing is a little extra time from the folk who claim it's all about skill.
Furthermore, anyone who isn't picking up the meta but is still willing to put in effort is just getting pushed into the zerg.
There you go again.. Your not the only one playing the game. Other people are figuring things out just fine. I understand what your trying to say dont worry i partly agree with you 1.6 is complete trash. To you 1.7 might seem like a step forward and it might be. But its really just a continuation of the terrible 1.6 patch.2 -
There you go again.. Your not the only one playing the game. Other people are figuring things out just fine. I understand what your trying to say dont worry i partly agree with you 1.6 is complete trash. To you 1.7 might seem like a step forward and it might be. But its really just a continuation of the terrible 1.6 patch.
I'm not the only one playing, you're right. By your logic though, I can hardly be the only one discouraged the nature of 1.6 PvP, either. You're still equating success with the correct amount of effort, and failure with not enough. Neither is a good representation of effort put forth. But to me, 1.7's universal damage nerf gives all the noobs a better chance while taking very little away from the truly skilled. They'll still be able to kill, it may just take longer.0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »Well you have the kernel of a really cool concept here.Mojomonkeyman wrote: »Anyone I know whos able to do great things in PvP now, has already died his or her thousand deaths back in the days. Theres a simple truth behind becoming good, "skilled" or whatever. Fail. Fail hard & fail often. Failing is your friend. It forces you to learn. After a while you will realize what made you fail, develop answers and become decent.
You have two closely related but separate ideas mashed together here.
First: failure is necessary to learn. Yes, true, wonderful and totally agree with you.
Second: Learning is always possible with failure.
Not always true. In martial arts, I call it "the flinch"; if the attack (practice attack, whatever) comes in too fast, and triggers panic, the person isn't able to learn from that particular experience - in fact that type of experience is often counter-productive and can teach failure.
It's related to the physiology of fear; in humans a little fear aids learning, a lot inhibits it.
So slowing TTK on ZoS part is actually quite a clever move.
It changes "the flinch" (a death recap a whole page long that the person looks at glazed-ly and says 'huh' to), to a more comprehensible death /fail which is something that can much more easily be processed.
Yes, in a way it's dumbing down the game; but for the vast majority of players it might make the difference in what and how fast they can learn to be more effective.
Yeah i dont think people are filled with fear when they die in a computer game.3 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
At his point i think its safe to say. People still play, but would they if there was still a subscription? It hasnt failed for everyone but it damn sure did fail to deliver what was first promoted.
The sheer number of copies the game has managed to sell on PS4, Xbox, and PC makes it not a failure.
It also consistently sells very well...and will continue to do so..and despite what i think about this patch..That doesn't change reality and no amount of butthurt about this patch will change that either.
Many aspects of this game has completely failed. This is my first MMO, and as I branch out, it becomes apparent what the failures in ESO were.
This game is very fortunate it has the Elder Scrolls title, the players are not.
See that's your problem..this is your first MMO, you truly don't know what failure is.
I've been playing them since Beta of UO....and I've seen countless failures..This game isn't even close to it.... in fact I can safely say that there isn't a developer out there today except maybe Blizzard that wouldn't give their left nut for ESO numbers
I said in many ways ESO has failed, especially when it comes to its players. Sure this game racked in loads of money, and in that sense is a success.
I'm sorry, butthurt players is not what a lot of Devs base success of a game on...WoW has plenty of explayers who bloody hate it...But its successful in the area that matters..Copies sold and how much money it makes.hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
At his point i think its safe to say. People still play, but would they if there was still a subscription? It hasnt failed for everyone but it damn sure did fail to deliver what was first promoted.
The sheer number of copies the game has managed to sell on PS4, Xbox, and PC makes it not a failure.
It also consistently sells very well...and will continue to do so..and despite what i think about this patch..That doesn't change reality and no amount of butthurt about this patch will change that either.
Again because the title name Elder Scrolls, and because it went b2p and lost the sub..
Funny part is i havent played in months. Just sad to see the game go down and down. When that next ES and or MMO game comes out this one is done for.
So? What you just said doesn't change the fact of anything i've stated...It's successful..Its going to continue being successful..How it did it doesn't matter.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
As totally irrelevant as the above quote is, it would be borderline moronic for one to assume a game is successful based on sales without knowing cost to produce, company overhead vis-a-vis income, or considering its failed potential to revitalize a stagnant genre ... not to mention the bevy of pre-release marketing which ended up being false or the hemorrhaging of hardcore players. But only borderline.
Oh it made far more then it cost to make, don't kid yourself mate...Its made that well back plus extra...as for failing to revitalize a stagnant genre? It doesn't have to do that...No game really has to do that to be successful.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »There you go again.. Your not the only one playing the game. Other people are figuring things out just fine. I understand what your trying to say dont worry i partly agree with you 1.6 is complete trash. To you 1.7 might seem like a step forward and it might be. But its really just a continuation of the terrible 1.6 patch.
I'm not the only one playing, you're right. By your logic though, I can hardly be the only one discouraged the nature of 1.6 PvP, either. You're still equating success with the correct amount of effort, and failure with not enough. Neither is a good representation of effort put forth. But to me, 1.7's universal damage nerf gives all the noobs a better chance while taking very little away from the truly skilled. They'll still be able to kill, it may just take longer.
I'm equating success not just with effort but with knowledge. I can give you the build enchant for enchant skill for skill armor for armor. If you dont know how to use it what good is it?0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭One problem is the people who want to role play their character and build in the way they want, and then they demand that the build they want be competitive in PvP or effective in trials.
They want to have their cake and eat it too.
It seems to me that many players just deal with things as they are by leveling multiple builds. When the game is rebalanced, they can use the most appropriate character for the content.
I can completely understand why some would be attached to a single character. But to get the most out of trials or PvP, it seems one shouldn't get too attached to a build.0 -
MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep patting yourselves on the back for being "skilled" at an uttlerly broken game that rewards exploiting and mindless grinding.Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.0 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭its obvious that zenimax is clueless newbie in mmos world. somebody saw it at beta, somebody will see it 2 years after and ESO is another example that subscription is dead and there is no reason these games are better at anything than no subs games.
its nice for newbie he can survive a bit, but i cant imagine they are able to kill someone. And whats the point of PVP, when you are not able to kill enemies? Zenimax zerg strategy is utterly wrong, because its not fun for nobody at the endIrwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade2 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭MisterBigglesworth wrote: »Keep patting yourselves on the back for being "skilled" at an uttlerly broken game that rewards exploiting and mindless grinding.
Another hurt and misguided individual let me aid and guide you friend!2 -
coryrenick_ESO wrote: »There you go again.. Your not the only one playing the game. Other people are figuring things out just fine. I understand what your trying to say dont worry i partly agree with you 1.6 is complete trash. To you 1.7 might seem like a step forward and it might be. But its really just a continuation of the terrible 1.6 patch.
I'm not the only one playing, you're right. By your logic though, I can hardly be the only one discouraged the nature of 1.6 PvP, either. You're still equating success with the correct amount of effort, and failure with not enough. Neither is a good representation of effort put forth. But to me, 1.7's universal damage nerf gives all the noobs a better chance while taking very little away from the truly skilled. They'll still be able to kill, it may just take longer.
I'm equating success not just with effort but with knowledge. I can give you the build enchant for enchant skill for skill armor for armor. If you dont know how to use it what good is it?
It would be useless. We both know this.
But like I keep saying, you have to spend enough time in the fight to work out the cause and effect of things, and there's much less likelihood of that happening if you spend all your time dead and in transit. It just pushes people to the zerg.0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »its obvious that zenimax is clueless newbie in mmos world. somebody saw it at beta, somebody will see it 2 years after and ESO is another example that subscription is dead and there is no reason these games are better at anything than no subs games.
its nice for newbie he can survive a bit, but i cant imagine they are able to kill someone. And whats the point of PVP, when you are not able to kill enemies? Zenimax zerg strategy is utterly wrong, because its not fun for nobody at the end
Subscription is dead because no one wants to put the time in anymore. Its all about quick in and out. The RIP N DIP
ZOS probably noticed early on that they couldnt sustain it and just came up with a strategy to milk it as much as they could. Announcing B2P and then after an eternity releasing it on consoles.1 -
VincentBlanquin✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »its obvious that zenimax is clueless newbie in mmos world. somebody saw it at beta, somebody will see it 2 years after and ESO is another example that subscription is dead and there is no reason these games are better at anything than no subs games.
its nice for newbie he can survive a bit, but i cant imagine they are able to kill someone. And whats the point of PVP, when you are not able to kill enemies? Zenimax zerg strategy is utterly wrong, because its not fun for nobody at the end
Subscription is dead because no one wants to put the time in anymore. Its all about quick in and out. The RIP N DIP
ZOS probably noticed early on that they couldnt sustain it and just came up with a strategy to milk it as much as they could. Announcing B2P and then after an eternity releasing it on consoles.
but its companies who want quick money so they dont bother make games worth of subs.
Irwen Vincinter - Nord - Dragonknight
Irw´en - Bosmer - Nightblade2 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
As totally irrelevant as the above quote is, it would be borderline moronic for one to assume a game is successful based on sales without knowing cost to produce, company overhead vis-a-vis income, or considering its failed potential to revitalize a stagnant genre ... not to mention the bevy of pre-release marketing which ended up being false or the hemorrhaging of hardcore players. But only borderline.
Oh it made far more then it cost to make, don't kid yourself mate...Its made that well back plus extra...as for failing to revitalize a stagnant genre? It doesn't have to do that...No game really has to do that to be successful.
I have to stop you on all this "game was a success nonsense". I don't want to see ESO fail. I was one of its biggest fanboys in the first few months. The reality is plain for all to see. I'm a theorycrafter, I do nothing but analyze numbers and draw (successful) conclusions. ESO is the best looking game out there as far as MMOs go. It *had* the most fun combat of any RPG I've played. When their main income strategy shifts after repeatedly saying that the game could never work under that model it is clear that ESO did not only not meet their expectations, but it also needed to be completely overhauled in order to salvage their investment.
Why don't you join your alts to some cyrodiil campaigns, and repair a wall somewhere and see what your rank is. This will let you know just how many players are PvPing. The last time I checked Cyrodiil in North America had 20-30k PvPers total. Double that for Europe and realize that one year ago it was 10 times that.
Xbox and PS4 bought them some breathing room which is why they dropped everything to get that out the door....but the intrinsic flaws are still present in the game and those populations will drop off as well.
Successful MMOs don't have their heads leaving. They aren't letting CS reps go, they're hiring them. Don't fool yourself with this talk of "not failing". 200 million dollars in initial investment doesn't materialize overnight.Edited by Ezareth on September 4, 2015 12:05AMPermanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube4 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭coryrenick_ESO wrote: »coryrenick_ESO wrote: »There you go again.. Your not the only one playing the game. Other people are figuring things out just fine. I understand what your trying to say dont worry i partly agree with you 1.6 is complete trash. To you 1.7 might seem like a step forward and it might be. But its really just a continuation of the terrible 1.6 patch.
I'm not the only one playing, you're right. By your logic though, I can hardly be the only one discouraged the nature of 1.6 PvP, either. You're still equating success with the correct amount of effort, and failure with not enough. Neither is a good representation of effort put forth. But to me, 1.7's universal damage nerf gives all the noobs a better chance while taking very little away from the truly skilled. They'll still be able to kill, it may just take longer.
I'm equating success not just with effort but with knowledge. I can give you the build enchant for enchant skill for skill armor for armor. If you dont know how to use it what good is it?
It would be useless. We both know this.
But like I keep saying, you have to spend enough time in the fight to work out the cause and effect of things, and there's much less likelihood of that happening if you spend all your time dead and in transit. It just pushes people to the zerg.
I used to test my builds out on pve mobs before trying it on live players. Seems like a radical idea i know. We are both bickering about different things. A lot of what im saying has nothing to do with how you play the game in 1.6 or now. Its more about how things were before 1.6. I'm not trying to say that you or anyone now is not putting in effort and trying to be better. But that because some people actually think like my OP the game never got played to its full potential. Most people didnt care about playing to their maximum potential even if it meant their build wasnt always as effective in the grand scheme of things. No one bothered to pay attention to the little things it seemed like.
This is why leading random pugs from cyrodiil was a suicide mission. Its why every time you used to show up to a keep everyone was just standing around. 90% of the people it seemed like didnt know how to play the game.1 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭VincentBlanquin wrote: »VincentBlanquin wrote: »its obvious that zenimax is clueless newbie in mmos world. somebody saw it at beta, somebody will see it 2 years after and ESO is another example that subscription is dead and there is no reason these games are better at anything than no subs games.
its nice for newbie he can survive a bit, but i cant imagine they are able to kill someone. And whats the point of PVP, when you are not able to kill enemies? Zenimax zerg strategy is utterly wrong, because its not fun for nobody at the end
Subscription is dead because no one wants to put the time in anymore. Its all about quick in and out. The RIP N DIP
ZOS probably noticed early on that they couldnt sustain it and just came up with a strategy to milk it as much as they could. Announcing B2P and then after an eternity releasing it on consoles.
but its companies who want quick money so they dont bother make games worth of subs.
exactly my point.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hammayolettuce wrote: »hammayolettuce wrote: »This was obviously a caricature, but it was a caricature with a good point. Casuals (the "bads") as consumers -- or so it seems to me -- have the quizzical attributes of fickleness, but also stubbornness. They are fickle in that their business comes and goes depending on myriad reasons, which are usually unpredictable. They are stubborn in that they typically refuse to adapt to the game context as it is, or as it evolves in subsequent patches. (Let us reminisce about how often the bowtatoes bragged about how non-FOTM they were.) It is obvious that Zenimax is trying to appeal to the casuals. Truth be told, there are more of them. However, they have also forgotten that casuals typically bandwagon hard in the wake of hardcores. This is why games with a competitive slant become so popular ... or even become pop culture icons. Examples include the DOTA mod of Warcraft and its successor MOBA's, with League of Legends being the prime example. It is why CS:GO is rapidly becoming what CS 1.6 used to be.
Zenimax most likely anticipated its business coming from casuals, and first-time MMO gamers coming from the Elder Scrolls intellectual property's fan base. They did not anticipate how much hardcore gamers -- both PvP and PvE -- generate hype for a game by posting Youtube videos, streaming, and marketing their brand which incidentally markets the game they play. Such notable personalities as Sypher himself started playing ESO because of a video he watched. As this game continues to hemorrhage its hardcore PvP'ers and PvE'ers, as it has already lost most of them, it will also lose its popular appeal.
I am predicting 1.7/2.1 is the final nail in the coffin of a game that has been walking dead for some months. The development team has seemed to have had no direction since release. If they did, they never communicated it. Or perhaps they were afraid to communicate it? It seems obvious to me: all of their patches have favored the casual player over the hardcore player. They are committed to a "play how you want" mentality and will nerf everything into the ground to achieve it. They lack the common sense that there is no such thing as "play how you want" meaning "everyone is just as strong as everyone else" unless everyone is forced to use the same gear, skills, and race. And even so, you can't force everyone to be as good a critical thinker as everyone else. In short, Zenimax is currently busy trying to make square triangles and circular squares ... that is, the impossible.
This game is failing and has failed because a rookie studio sought out to do something impossible, as opposed to being wise, ambitious, and practical. I don't think they'll get a second chance either.
As bad as this patch is..saying this game is failing and has failed is borderline moronic..and should be embarrassing for the person who typed it.
As totally irrelevant as the above quote is, it would be borderline moronic for one to assume a game is successful based on sales without knowing cost to produce, company overhead vis-a-vis income, or considering its failed potential to revitalize a stagnant genre ... not to mention the bevy of pre-release marketing which ended up being false or the hemorrhaging of hardcore players. But only borderline.
Oh it made far more then it cost to make, don't kid yourself mate...Its made that well back plus extra...as for failing to revitalize a stagnant genre? It doesn't have to do that...No game really has to do that to be successful.
I have to stop you on all this "game was a success nonsense". I don't want to see ESO fail. I was one of its biggest fanboys in the first few months. The reality is plain for all to see. I'm a theorycrafter, I do nothing but analyze numbers and draw (successful) conclusions. ESO is the best looking game out there as far as MMOs go. It *had* the most fun combat of any RPG I've played. When their main income strategy shifts after repeatedly saying that the game could never work under that model it is clear that ESO did not only not meet their expectations, but it also needed to be completely overhauled in order to salvage their investment.
Why don't you join your alts to some cyrodiil campaigns, and repair a wall somewhere and see what your rank is. This will let you know just how many players are PvPing. The last time I checked Cyrodiil in North America had 20-30k PvPers total. Double that for Europe and realize that one year ago it was 10 times that.
Xbox and PS4 bought them some breathing room which is why they dropped everything to get that out the door....but the intrinsic flaws are still present in the game and those populations will drop off as well.
Successful MMOs don't have their heads leaving. They aren't letting CS reps go, they're hiring them. Don't fool yourself with this talk of "not failing". 200 million dollars in initial investment doesn't materialize overnight.
Only I can point you to multiple blizzard devs leaving the company, as well as numerous other MMOs that the same thing, the cs rep things is also standard in every single game development cycle, if you know anyone who works in this field they will tell you the same thing (blizzard for example has done it constantly).
As for ESO shifting to the current payment model, that was only a matter of time and doesn't say much, it's where the market is leading most games now a days
If you want to go a few rounds with me on this I will, but you are sadly wrong on this subject and nothing will change that.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0
