Where is all this increased damage coming from?!

snackrat · September 2015

I've taken a huge spike in damage since 1.2.4 - I've had to slot on stronger healing. Other guildmates have also noted this: "big time". What I can't figure out: why?!
This is PvE, mostly Cad's Silver/Gold. (I wear 5 light, 2 heavy.)

I see patch notes mention tanks do more damage (and have less health, as well as mages having more health less damage) - but I'm taking increased damage from everything, including basic attacks.
I can see Kagouti chomp's damage has been increased "to 25%" (did they mean... by 25%?) but I'm not fighting Kagouti, either, and that's the only ability with increased damage I see.
If anything it should be LESS damage, because armour is no longer reduced until it reaches 0% quality.

I've been told that its in the patch notes, and yet... I read every iteration of patch notes as in the PTS section, and then read the entirety of 2.1.4 ALL OVER AGAIN while waiting for it to install. Said people saying it is in the patch notes cannot tell me where. I have read "Combat and Gameplay" several times over trying to find it, and went over others hoping for a mention. Nothing.

Where is all the damage coming from? Was damage increase? Was armour reduced? Were crafted sets heavily nerfed?
Maybe it is a bug, and Battle Spirit is increasing PvE by 50% instead of reducing PvP by 50%. (My heals have been surprisingly potent, healing me up to full when cast, so I initially thought this may be it.)
Is it really in the Patch Notes? If so, WHERE?! I have read the thing so many damn times and I cannot for the LIFE OF ME find it! PLEASE HELP ME FIND IT. If you can find it, tell me the Category and subcategory.

NOTES:
V9 Argonian Templar (magicka), Ebonheart

5 light (infused hat, well-fittedx4) 2 heavy (reinforced x2)
5 Seducer, 3 Torug's Pact
Stamina enchants (for sprinting/dodging)
Resto staves

Mundus stone: Steed

MissBizz · September 2015

Do you find yourself running out of resources faster, therefore are not able to 'defend' yourself as good as you could before?

Or is your resources still fine and all that seems to have changed is just straight up damage?

I personally haven't been able to PvE in Caldwell Gold much since Monday, but I did wander into a solo delve in my usual not-awesome gear (trying to level up skills/armor I needed to) and died FAR more often, although I felt it was because I was running out of resources - therefore not being able to attack as much or heal myself. Personally, I was using the exact sets/bar that I was questing in that area with before this patch, and prior to this patch, I would solo the public dungeons (I'm overlevelled for the areas I quest in)

[EDIT] Although, I wasn't really paying attention to the mob type that was killing me. Mine may be due to things such as mage's having more health - maybe I'm just running out of resources since it takes longer to take them down?

Did you change your gear recently? Have you checked out your resistances? Maybe something caused your resistances to be lower, therefore there would be more damage done against you? Sorry, I'm not being overly helpful, but maybe with more info I can help you pinpoint a bit better.

Nestor · September 2015

I started using Reflective skills last night to great effect on casters. Total Dark is awesome now. Drop it on a caster, then ignore them while they kill themselves casting spells at you.

Funkopotamus · September 2015

Agreed that the game has gotten "Harder"

But is that a BAD thing?

I mean it almost felt like I was playing "babies first MMO" for so long. Everything was just to easy!
ESO should have been this hard to begin with and the masses would not be shocked, but this changing at this point is going to cause confusion as these forums are showing now.

Honestly it almost feels...... "Right"?

Cuyler · September 2015

Are you using the Nirnhoned trait on armor? that was fixed this patch and your spell resist may be lower now = less mitigation = increased damage. Just a thought.

Mojmir · September 2015

Think it would have better in smaller increments. Releasing this with a major update just causes delirium. Too many changes at once

snackrat · September 2015

Nope, not using Nirnhorned.
Nope, not a resource problem at all (not even slightly, my magicka and stam are both fine, esp as I use drinks.)

Yes, it is straight up damage.

No, I do not appreciate the increased difficulty, because going from 85% to 35% in one hit does not feel appropriate (even for a healer). That's half my health in one blow in PvE solo areas, which I doubt is intended. Every second use of my GCD should not be Honour the Dead.

I can't see it being related to Silver/Gold as the only mention of that is 'you can still do quests without touching the crystal'. It is all very baffling.

MissBizz · September 2015

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Agreed that the game has gotten "Harder"

But is that a BAD thing?

I mean it almost felt like I was playing "babies first MMO" for so long. Everything was just to easy!
ESO should have been this hard to begin with and the masses would not be shocked, but this changing at this point is going to cause confusion as these forums are showing now.

Honestly it almost feels...... "Right"?

@Funkopotamus Oh, for sure. It's really a good thing. It's just very confusing when you suddenly feel like you were dropped 3 levels and don't know why. At least knowing the "why" helps people adapt (since if we know where the new weakness is from we can work towards fixing it right away, rather than having to try 24978357 differents things first)

MissBizz · September 2015

snackrat wrote: »

Nope, not using Nirnhorned.
Nope, not a resource problem at all (not even slightly, my magicka and stam are both fine, esp as I use drinks.)

Yes, it is straight up damage.

No, I do not appreciate the increased difficulty, because going from 85% to 35% in one hit does not feel appropriate. That's half my health in one blow in PvE solo areas, which I doubt is intended. Every second use of my GCD should not be Honour the Dead.

Do you use a combat log by chance? If not, might want to install one just to help figure this out. With a log, go fight a monster and see exactly WHICH attacks are doing insane damage.

snackrat · September 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

snackrat wrote: »

Nope, not using Nirnhorned.
Nope, not a resource problem at all (not even slightly, my magicka and stam are both fine, esp as I use drinks.)

Yes, it is straight up damage.

No, I do not appreciate the increased difficulty, because going from 85% to 35% in one hit does not feel appropriate. That's half my health in one blow in PvE solo areas, which I doubt is intended. Every second use of my GCD should not be Honour the Dead.

Do you use a combat log by chance? If not, might want to install one just to help figure this out. With a log, go fight a monster and see exactly WHICH attacks are doing insane damage.

Ooh, good idea! I have an addon for tracking my DPS/HPS, and a UI mod with alerts, but I should probably reinstall Recount. Of course, that still could only show if damage has been increased, not why (increase dmg, reduced mitigation, etc)

EDIT: Recount is long expired. :c Got any others to recommend?

Funkopotamus · September 2015

Yes but the "Trying 24978357" things are what makes it a game/journey! -and makes them money and gives ZOS a time sink to get new content out-

I mean DEVS never throw out patch notes with "Oh btw switch to xy-Gear if you are running blah dungeon.. or jk-Gear for this area"

We need to find out this stuff and yes you are correct it will be a try and fail thing until we do find that perfect set. Now everyone cant just run nirn and faceroll is the problem I think.

snackrat · September 2015

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Yes but the "Trying 24978357" things are what makes it a game/journey! -and makes them money and gives ZOS a time sink to get new content out-

I mean DEVS never throw out patch notes with "Oh btw switch to xy-Gear if you are running blah dungeon.. or jk-Gear for this area"

We need to find out this stuff and yes you are correct it will be a try and fail thing until we do find that perfect set. Now everyone cant just run nirn and faceroll is the problem I think.

Their patch notes SHOULD, however, specify "Mob damage increased by 35% across the board" or "armour levels reduced by 25%" or "[Set 1] and [Set 2] now only have 40% effect" or whatever change actually lead to the increased damage in the first place.
I want to know where it is coming from and why. How I decide to deal with it comes after.

Cuyler · September 2015

You can plead the fifth as to not incriminate yourself but were you double mundusing? The fix removed mundus' from those who were doing this requiring them to grab one again.... is it possible you haven't a mundus atm? (assuming you were using a mitigation type mundus bonus)

snackrat · September 2015

No. I was not using Nirncrux. I was not double-Mundus: I do not use cheats or glitches. These were fixes I noted, but ignored as they were not relevant to me at all.

Running 5 Seducer, 3 Torug. 5 light, 2 heavy (chest legs). Traits are Reinforced on the heavy, infused on light hat, Well-Fitted on everything else.
Restoration staff.

If anything I should be hardier because I was actually using the Steed stone (as terrible as it was) so now I have additional health regeneration.

I am a mortal (not WW or vamp). Argonian templar.

Cuyler · September 2015

Has your overall HP lowered? say due to not having pvp buffs anymore?

snackrat · September 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

Has your overall HP lowered? say due to not having pvp buffs anymore?

That's an interesting point! I cannot be sure as I did not take screenshots, unfortuntely. The question then becomes 'why is my health suddenly so low'. That can help narrow it down; I'll have another look and see if they changed the amount per level or something.
My health is now 12k (V9).

For PvP specifically though, I am Ebonheart Pact and in my campaign, AD ruled as king (so I didn't typically have PvP buffs anyway).

capnbinky · September 2015

Nestor wrote: »

I started using Reflective skills last night to great effect on casters. Total Dark is awesome now. Drop it on a caster, then ignore them while they kill themselves casting spells at you.

This is particularly effective in the Imperial City, where there are a lot of hard-hitting spellcasters. Dragon scales for the win. Unfortunately, for whatever reason (yet another nerf? lag?) it seems like it is slower to cast and use than 1.6.

snackrat · September 2015

*sigh* Try to see if it was a change to the armour, and it can't be - because they actually double light armour per level, and I am using 5 light.
So that's out.

And, as an argonian, I am supposed to have 3% more health. So that's odd, too. (This on top of Steed's new health regen.)

Seriously - double armour, 3% health, AND more health regen? That seems like the changes should be making me hardier - so something is seriously funky here.

Cuyler · September 2015

Seeing as you're a Temprar this may be affecting you:

•Channeled Focus (Rune Focus morph): Fixed an issue with this ability where Major Ward was not wearing off properly after leaving the circle.

and the steed mundus:

The Steed
•Reinforced: Fixed an issue where the damage shield from this passive could show a higher value on the health bar than intended.

is it possible that this is not just visual?

This is interesting too:
•Soldiers of the Covenant, Pact, and Dominion (in PVE zones) now use a Warhorn ability to rally and empower their allies in combat.

maybe you were fighting soldiers popping horns?

Cuyler · September 2015

snackrat wrote: »

*sigh* Try to see if it was a change to the armour, and it can't be - because they actually double light armour per level, and I am using 5 light.
So that's out.

And, as an argonian, I am supposed to have 3% more health. So that's odd, too. (This on top of Steed's new health regen.)

Seriously - double armour, 3% health, AND more health regen? That seems like the changes should be making me hardier - so something is seriously funky here.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. You may want to repsec and put points into the argonian passives to test to see if in fact your HP increasing the new % values.

snackrat · September 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

Seeing as you're a Temprar these may be affecting you:

•Channeled Focus (Rune Focus morph): Fixed an issue with this ability where Major Ward was not wearing off properly after leaving the circle.

and the steed mundus:

The Steed
•Reinforced: Fixed an issue where the damage shield from this passive could show a higher value on the health bar than intended.

is it possible that this is not just visual?

This is interesting too:
•Soldiers of the Covenant, Pact, and Dominion (in PVE zones) now use a Warhorn ability to rally and empower their allies in combat. maybe you were fighting soldiers popping horns?

1: Honestly, not likely. When I do use the Ward, I stay on it. And I didn't have this problem beforehand even when I didn't use it at all. (That is the morph I use, though.)

2: Can't be the Steed, I'm afraid. I don't have the CP in it. And the only shield I use is Healing Ward. When I say Mundus Steed, I mean the actual Mundus Stone (ie Speed +5% - now with added health regen).

3: That is interesting! I was doing quests in Greenshade - an assassination attempt on Razum-dar the Queen. I don't know if they count - Veiled Heritance, I think they were. They were in a group, since it was a boss + flunkies.

I remember the most obnoxious of the attacks being from a mage boss. He was firing a projectile every 1.5 sec or so. I remember it looking strange - a particle effect, or a unique shape? I'd noticed increased damage across the board, but that boss was when I stopped to actually observe all the incoming damage. (I also resent these attack types for being so damaging and yet unavoidable - the mages are my bane in Craglorn, as well, even before dodge changes.)

Thanks for helping me get to the bottom of this.

snackrat · September 2015

The weird thing is, some of my guildmates insist that there is a note saying mob damage was increased by X%. They of course, cannot tell me where this is, and I cannot find it. When I lamented that was the case, I was encouraged to leave them alone and Deal With It.

I found that advice very helpful.

It seems a strange thing to insist when such a note cannot be found in the patch notes, including with these people so generous as to help look. Perhaps a case of talking out of one's ass.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2015

TTK enemies has gone up (NPC/Monster types, anyway), because their defenses have gotten a boost.

As such, you're probably taking more prolonged damage as a result, since the fight is lasting longer.

snackrat · September 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

TTK enemies has gone up (NPC/Monster types, anyway), because their defenses have gotten a boost.

As such, you're probably taking more prolonged damage as a result, since the fight is lasting longer.

A good point worth observing (and will definitely need to use Focus more in the future), thanks!

Doesn't explain going from 85% to 35% in one blow though. It's not about how much health I lose from a fight so much as how fast I'm losing it that is truly baffling. I have to pop Honour the Dead every few seconds just to stay above 40%, and that's... weird. Super weird.

I dunno, maybe you're right and it IS just because they're more prolonged, and it wasn't until a boss I started actually documenting? At which point this single boss would only need to deal a lot of damage from spamming his one powerful attack to create that impression.
Still... feels like a rather convenient handwave, considering the chorus from others seeing their incoming damage spikes also. Especially given that the fights don't feel any longer; in fact many are still over fast enough that they go from 50% to dead before I even switch to my execute.

Cuyler · September 2015

IIRC Torugs pact 3pc bonus is max HP. That bonus is probably lower now due to the blanket re-balancing.

Also are you using max HP enchants or resists? see below

•Decreased Health, Magicka, and Stamina enchantments at lower levels. At VR14, these items now provide about 4% more.
•Decreased all Armor and Spell Resistance enchantments. The decrease is approximately 36% at VR14.

and resistances in general were neferd so I'd go as far to say this is a big factor in how hard your getting hit compared to previously.

•Decreased resistances to specific elements, such as fire damage, at lower levels. At higher levels, they were increased by up to 25% at VR14

MissBizz · September 2015

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Yes but the "Trying 24978357" things are what makes it a game/journey! -and makes them money and gives ZOS a time sink to get new content out-

I mean DEVS never throw out patch notes with "Oh btw switch to xy-Gear if you are running blah dungeon.. or jk-Gear for this area"

We need to find out this stuff and yes you are correct it will be a try and fail thing until we do find that perfect set. Now everyone cant just run nirn and faceroll is the problem I think.

Nirn was never my answer hehe. But I do see your point. I don't think they need to worry about me running out of content.. I've played since pretty much launch.. have 1 VR14.. and am still doing gold..

As for a combat log, I use combat log statistics. Although just look at esoui for any very recently updated ones.

Although, I have a thread about my resource problem that you may want to read, it's mostly not applicable to you, but someone in there did point out that the math itself changed for things such as racial bonuses and spell cost reduction. So maybe something you use was ninja mathed too?
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2210378/#Comment_2210378

Some points that MAY apply to you is any racial passive may have had the math changed, there is no more Cyrodiil buffs, and no more emperor passives.

snackrat · September 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

IIRC Torugs pact 3pc bonus is max HP. That bonus is probably lower now due to the blanket re-balancing.

Also are you using max HP enchants or resists? see below

•Decreased Health, Magicka, and Stamina enchantments at lower levels. At VR14, these items now provide about 4% more.
•Decreased all Armor and Spell Resistance enchantments. The decrease is approximately 36% at VR14.

and resistances in general were neferd so I'd go as far to say this is a big factor in how hard your getting hit compared to previously.

•Decreased resistances to specific elements, such as fire damage, at lower levels. At higher levels, they were increased by up to 25% at VR14

Good catch! I am actually using stamina enchants (as you might tell by Well-Fitted on small pieces, I am in solo gear and I impatiently sprint a lot of places.)

But that Torug's could be it. When I was looking at changes to sets, Seducer wasn't mentioned at all and Torug's 4-slot was mentioned (I only have 3). That could be a contributor. (I doubt it is the solo reason though.)
I am at V9, so it would have to be a curious choice of scale... ...just looked at it, at V9 I have a bonus 891. That doesn't seem very low.

Cuyler · September 2015

snackrat wrote: »

The weird thing is, some of my guildmates insist that there is a note saying mob damage was increased by X%. They of course, cannot tell me where this is, and I cannot find it. When I lamented that was the case, I was encouraged to leave them alone and Deal With It.

I found that advice very helpful.

It seems a strange thing to insist when such a note cannot be found in the patch notes, including with these people so generous as to help look. Perhaps a case of talking out of one's ass.

I assume they are referring to these changes:

•Mages, skirmishers, and tanks have all been tweaked to have less dramatic variation. In general, mages will have less damage and more health, while tanks will have less health and more damage. This means the average fight length and amount of incoming damage will be more balanced, while retaining the thematic differences between monster types.
•All mage monsters now have more health, and output less damage.
•All tank monsters now have high spell and physical resistance.
•All mages now have low physical resistance, but high spell resistance.
•All skirmishers now have average physical and spell resistance.
•On average, delve bosses now have more health.

It's very possible the scaling from some of these balances aren't really balanced in some situations. Also it states mages damage is reduced (so your mage boss should of been weaker) but tanks have more damage.

DenMoria · September 2015

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Agreed that the game has gotten "Harder"

But is that a BAD thing?

I mean it almost felt like I was playing "babies first MMO" for so long. Everything was just to easy!
ESO should have been this hard to begin with and the masses would not be shocked, but this changing at this point is going to cause confusion as these forums are showing now.

Honestly it almost feels...... "Right"?

Oh well. Us whimpy folk are out, I guess.

The game was too hard for me in 1-50 most of the time when it was the way it was. I haven't the time for farming, maximizing and endless practicing.

I guess I'll go back to my baby games. Anybody for Candy Crush?

I'm sorry I ever bought it.

Maybe my masochist friends will enjoy it.

snackrat · September 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

snackrat wrote: »

The weird thing is, some of my guildmates insist that there is a note saying mob damage was increased by X%. They of course, cannot tell me where this is, and I cannot find it. When I lamented that was the case, I was encouraged to leave them alone and Deal With It.

I found that advice very helpful.

It seems a strange thing to insist when such a note cannot be found in the patch notes, including with these people so generous as to help look. Perhaps a case of talking out of one's ass.

I assume they are referring to these changes:

•Mages, skirmishers, and tanks have all been tweaked to have less dramatic variation. In general, mages will have less damage and more health, while tanks will have less health and more damage. This means the average fight length and amount of incoming damage will be more balanced, while retaining the thematic differences between monster types.
•All mage monsters now have more health, and output less damage.
•All tank monsters now have high spell and physical resistance.
•All mages now have low physical resistance, but high spell resistance.
•All skirmishers now have average physical and spell resistance.
•On average, delve bosses now have more health.

It's very possible the scaling from some of these balances aren't really balanced in some situations. Also it states mages damage is reduced (so your mage boss should of been weaker) but tanks have more damage.

I assumed that's what they meant too - tanks up, rogues same, mages down - especially since it was found under the very acceptable 'Combat and Gameplay' section. Yet I was 'Not Getting It' and they were apparently frustrated with me for providing this as a reasoning.

So far people seem willing to help me isolate the problem, but not many seem to be personally experiencing it (unless they are the silent majority hiking up the thread views, I suppose). Makes me wonder if it is something my end - my 250 ping, my race/class combo, my crafted gear, my set bonuses, my voodoo curse.

Funkopotamus · September 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Agreed that the game has gotten "Harder"

But is that a BAD thing?

I mean it almost felt like I was playing "babies first MMO" for so long. Everything was just to easy!
ESO should have been this hard to begin with and the masses would not be shocked, but this changing at this point is going to cause confusion as these forums are showing now.

Honestly it almost feels...... "Right"?

Oh well. Us whimpy folk are out, I guess.

The game was too hard for me in 1-50 most of the time when it was the way it was. I haven't the time for farming, maximizing and endless practicing.

I guess I'll go back to my baby games. Anybody for Candy Crush?

I'm sorry I ever bought it.

Maybe my masochist friends will enjoy it.

I have to respond here..
I think I might have worded that wrong I never ment that to be a personal attack on you or anyone!! More so at the game itself.. I mean come on you are telling me that running up and casting 3 spells/Attacks at a mob and moving on to the next was something you found "hard"?

The grind in this game is the only thing that was anything of a content wall. There honestly was nothing until late vets that are considered to be "hard" The trouble that causes are players flying through the game and then getting spanked and left wondering why....

Sorta like pushing your cat into the toilet and closing the lid when you catch him drinking out of it.

Yeah I have dunit.. lol
But to this day he avoids the bathroom