The MMO Trinity.

Inactive Account · August 2015

With the next patch going live tomorrow and the controversial changes be implemented, is the MMO Trinity still viable in ESO, or do you see a large number of Hybrids on the horizon?

(FYI... The Trinity is... the Tank, the Healer, the Damage Dealers)

Mojmir · August 2015

Other

i voted other, because by golly im gonna give it the what for!!! basically w/e it takes to get the job done

Emma_Overload · August 2015

Other

The Trinity needs to just go away. Why?

1) It makes it difficult for the devs to scale dungeon difficulty down to duos and solos.

2) It makes grouping hard to accomplish because of the need to fill specialized roles.

3) Reliance on healers and tanks makes players lazy and careless.

The great thing about ESO's classes is that all of them are capable of doing all roles, so why not leverage that fact and get rid of the forced specialization?

Kleptobrainiac · August 2015

I wish this game had more cause for CC based builds.

stojekarcub18_ESO · August 2015

No

I've always made hybrids anyway. That's what I enjoy most about good RPGs: the ability to develop my own builds and become much more than just another cookie-cutter build. Sometimes it takes a lot of effort and strategy to make different obscure builds work out. This makes the game more fun to me, personally, though.

Morimizo · August 2015

Other

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The Trinity needs to just go away. Why?

1) It makes it difficult for the devs to scale dungeon difficulty down to duos and solos.

2) It makes grouping hard to accomplish because of the need to fill specialized roles.

3) Reliance on healers and tanks makes players lazy and careless.

The great thing about ESO's classes is that all of them are capable of doing all roles, so why not leverage that fact and get rid of the forced specialization?

Would vote all insightful, agree, and awesome if I could. Very well said.

Rev Rielle · August 2015

Yes

GW2 tried to remove the necessity of the trinity as much as any traditional MMO has done so to date, and overall it did not work very well in terms of getting the community/players to work together.
I think (hope) the Trinity will always have useful place in ESOTU.

Elloa · August 2015

Yes

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The Trinity needs to just go away. Why?

1) It makes it difficult for the devs to scale dungeon difficulty down to duos and solos.

2) It makes grouping hard to accomplish because of the need to fill specialized roles.

3) Reliance on healers and tanks makes players lazy and careless.

The great thing about ESO's classes is that all of them are capable of doing all roles, so why not leverage that fact and get rid of the forced specialization?

.

I really disagree with this (No offense)

Its easier for Developers to create interesting fight and boss mechanics knowing that there will be 1 tank, 1 healer and 2 DPS
Some players prefer to be healer or tank, and want to have a game where they can feel useful, needed, and shine in their role. One of the reason why I gave up on GW2, I could not really be a healer.
Dungeons have no need to be scaled for duo or solo players. Its meant to be played with 4 players, if you want to cut your group down it should be hardcore and very difficult.

wafcatb14_ESO · August 2015

i wish they had cc classes like old school EQ Bards, and chanters instead of just an AOE game.

and group size of 6 players with an exp bonus for having a full group to encourge grouping in a multiplayer game instead of 4 person groups and exp nerfed if your group is larger than 2 players.

Balthyzar · August 2015

As much as I love the old school mmo games, the over use of the trinity has created a large number of lazy rpg players. I agree that adding more advanced game play with the use of more hybrid classes is long over due. As a long time elder scrolls junkie, I'm not sure why the trinity even exists in eso.

Kalfis · August 2015

Yes

Look no further than GW2 to see what happens with the trinity is removed.

Gidorick · August 2015

I seriously thought ESO was going to do away with "the trinity" when it came out. When the LFG tool had the roles it genuinely surprised me.

RizaHawkeye · August 2015

Other

Gidorick wrote: »

I seriously thought ESO was going to do away with "the trinity" when it came out. When the LFG tool had the roles it genuinely surprised me.

It was character creation for me. I bought the game awhile back, hadn't paid much attention to the forums or Let's Plays and jumped right in. When I saw the DK, Templar, Sorcerer, Nightblade classes, I knew it was a Holy Trinity game.

And that was disappointing, because I like the TES classes. (Yes, yes I know ... Skyrim didn't have any.)

Scyantific · August 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The Trinity needs to just go away. Why?

1) It makes it difficult for the devs to scale dungeon difficulty down to duos and solos.

2) It makes grouping hard to accomplish because of the need to fill specialized roles.

3) Reliance on healers and tanks makes players lazy and careless.

The great thing about ESO's classes is that all of them are capable of doing all roles, so why not leverage that fact and get rid of the forced specialization?

Tell that to me and my guildies who can 2/3 man dungeons with ease.

E: Forgot to add that this is without the standard healer/tank combo.

Inactive Account · August 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

I seriously thought ESO was going to do away with "the trinity" when it came out. When the LFG tool had the roles it genuinely surprised me.

At the start of ESO, I, along with many other people had the same thought as you.

It almost looks like they are looking at that idea again.

Inactive Account · August 2015

Kalfis wrote: »

Look no further than GW2 to see what happens with the trinity is removed.

Can you expand on that comment a little. I have not played GW2.

It may give some insite.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · August 2015

Yes

MMO or the trinity?

Chicken or the egg?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGwHtGBZJU

nimander99 · August 2015

Other

"LOUD NOISES"

Avonna · August 2015

I hope that one day they would do away with the classes.. we all use the same skills anyways. you know the ones that REALLY work.

whats the difference if we all could choose whatever "class " skill line to work with...

and since everyone has access to all the same skills, maybe we wouldnt have so many people complaining and crying about nerf this and nerf that... cause you know.....you have the same option to use those skills.

but if they are not going to go that route, then yes keep the trinity.

Blackhorne · August 2015

Other

Morimizo wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The Trinity needs to just go away. Why?

1) It makes it difficult for the devs to scale dungeon difficulty down to duos and solos.

2) It makes grouping hard to accomplish because of the need to fill specialized roles.

3) Reliance on healers and tanks makes players lazy and careless.

The great thing about ESO's classes is that all of them are capable of doing all roles, so why not leverage that fact and get rid of the forced specialization?

Would vote all insightful, agree, and awesome if I could. Very well said.

Well, agree and awesome were already ticked on @Emma_Eunjung 's post, so I added the insightful.

I don't think the Trinity will go away (it's a player reaction to the general mechanics of RPGs -- there are only three things you can try to do in almost every RPG battle situation: take enemy damage (and thus prevent others from taking it), deal damage, or heal allies.) But if a dungeon's mini-boss fights are varied enough, a skilled player with a flexible but not quite optimal build will be able to contribute more than an equally-skilled player with an optimal but inflexible build. That is what ESO provides with its flexible classes. Unfortunately I don't think it's UI (LFG I'm looking at you) is up to supporting it.

Scyantific wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The Trinity needs to just go away. Why?

1) It makes it difficult for the devs to scale dungeon difficulty down to duos and solos.

2) It makes grouping hard to accomplish because of the need to fill specialized roles.

3) Reliance on healers and tanks makes players lazy and careless.

The great thing about ESO's classes is that all of them are capable of doing all roles, so why not leverage that fact and get rid of the forced specialization?

Tell that to me and my guildies who can 2/3 man dungeons with ease.

E: Forgot to add that this is without the standard healer/tank combo.

I think you just made @Emma_Eunjung 's point -- if you can run a dungeon (at-level, of course) without relying on the strict roles of the Trinity, then ESO has already freed you from the constraints of the Trinity.

Now to make my point, you just have to agree that you'd never try that with a PUG from the LFG tool in its current state.

Morimizo · August 2015

Other

Elloa wrote: »

[*] Dungeons have no need to be scaled for duo or solo players. Its meant to be played with 4 players, if you want to cut your group down it should be hardcore and very difficult.

That is only an opinion. What is the problem with 2 or 3 people groups, and the scaling of *instanced* dungeons to this? Adjusting this would not affect your gameplay whatsoever, but would allow folks who prefer to run in these smaller groups to enjoy the content, instead of experiencing it on hardmode.

It's a compromise; of course the best XP and rewards would still go to the full group.

Blackhorne · August 2015

Other

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

MMO or the trinity?

Chicken or the egg?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGwHtGBZJU

Trinity. It was around in MUDs and even table-top and single-player RPGs of the early nineties. Why do you think pre-built groups in the early single-player arcade/computer RPGs almost always consisted of some variation on fighter, mage, ranger/thief, priest? Tank, 2DPS, Heals.

Inactive Account · August 2015

Blackhorne wrote: »

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

MMO or the trinity?

Chicken or the egg?

Trinity. It was around in MUDs and even table-top and single-player RPGs of the early nineties. Why do you think pre-built groups in the early single-player arcade/computer RPGs almost always consisted of some variation on fighter, mage, ranger/thief, priest? Tank, 2DPS, Heals.

I am wondering if in ESOTU, each player can hold two of these three traits, to some degree and be as effective, or very close to, heck even better than the dedicate Trinity roles?

Which seems, we may need to try out with the changes that are coming in this next patch.

Judging by what Elloa has said, if true, it does look to be a viable option.

Scyantific · August 2015

Blackhorne wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The Trinity needs to just go away. Why?

1) It makes it difficult for the devs to scale dungeon difficulty down to duos and solos.

2) It makes grouping hard to accomplish because of the need to fill specialized roles.

3) Reliance on healers and tanks makes players lazy and careless.

The great thing about ESO's classes is that all of them are capable of doing all roles, so why not leverage that fact and get rid of the forced specialization?

Tell that to me and my guildies who can 2/3 man dungeons with ease.

E: Forgot to add that this is without the standard healer/tank combo.

I think you just made @Emma_Eunjung 's point -- if you can run a dungeon (at-level, of course) without relying on the strict roles of the Trinity, then ESO has already freed you from the constraints of the Trinity.

Now to make my point, you just have to agree that you'd never try that with a PUG from the LFG tool in its current state.

Yes, we do clear this stuff at level (vr12 engine runs, nerien'eth runs). In fact:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzvXLEDWdhA

(Yes, I know I was tanking Hiath, but nevertheless we did it while I was at v9). Two DPS, one tank to let them focus completely on burning Hiath. I DPS'd the whole way through stages 1-9.

And yeah, I would never try this with a PUG (although for normal dungeons this seems to be happening regardless, normal dungeons can be done with just 3 dps and a healer, and in cases where the DPS is fully aware of what's going on, it can even be done with 4 straight DPS roles). To me it takes a certain amount of experience to be able to do dungeons without the Trinity. My guildmates and I know each other well enough to be able to get through these things easily.

Vaelen · August 2015

Yes

Rev Rielle wrote: »

GW2 tried to remove the necessity of the trinity as much as any traditional MMO has done so to date, and overall it did not work very well in terms of getting the community/players to work together.
I think (hope) the Trinity will always have useful place in ESOTU.

+1, without the Trinity roles, everyone would just use the highest DPS gear for PvE (a.k.a. zerker in GW2). Gw2 already has a huge problem with PvE viable builds, but I would admit that the PvP aspect is very balanced and dumbed down to the simplest level. So bottom line, is without the Trinity, PvE will be dumbed down to simple fight mechanics which take very little strategy.

Vaelen · August 2015

Yes

TBH, they need to rename Guild Wars 2 to Zerk Wars 2, since all PvE is Zerker gear only, link or kick...

Lord Xanhorn · August 2015

ya I quit GW2 after 30 levels cause there was no support options.

PBpsy · August 2015

I want what ESO had to an extent early on but gradually lost and still losing, instead of developing and improving. Well defined roles not determined by class.

Molag_Crow · August 2015

Yes

Well.. I don't exactly like fitting into the 3-way Hybrid, but it's complicated, because I love healing, I love doing enough damage to even try and take out an emperor and I quite like being able to absorb/reflect damage with my terrible stamina pool.

When Imperial comes out on PS4 though, I may go straight-up Tanky-healer, basically a PvP healer in heavy armor instead of my 5 light, 2 hev. I welcome feedback/advice through messages though.

Elloa · August 2015

Yes

Morimizo wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

[*] Dungeons have no need to be scaled for duo or solo players. Its meant to be played with 4 players, if you want to cut your group down it should be hardcore and very difficult.

That is only an opinion. What is the problem with 2 or 3 people groups, and the scaling of *instanced* dungeons to this? Adjusting this would not affect your gameplay whatsoever, but would allow folks who prefer to run in these smaller groups to enjoy the content, instead of experiencing it on hardmode.

It's a compromise; of course the best XP and rewards would still go to the full group.

I don't mind that players can do the Dungeon at 3 players, 2 players, solo it or whatever. I just do not want to see developers dumping down Dungeon and interesting mechanics to catter this kind of gameplay. The goal is to create a challenge for 4 man group, that include a tank and a healer. After, if some players can do it with a different sort of group, that's really great. But I think the Devs should focus on making it challenging for "normal groups"
For solo/duo players there is other part of the game that they can enjoy (and yes I agree that they could make solo instance a bit more challenging, that would be cool)

Elloa · August 2015

Yes

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Kalfis wrote: »

Look no further than GW2 to see what happens with the trinity is removed.

Can you expand on that comment a little. I have not played GW2.

It may give some insite.

GW2 was the first game to embrace the non Trinity. It resulted in a very chaotic gameplay that some players enjoyed and some hated. Was easy to make up group, but no one had a clear role. And strategy to "zerg" bosses, or skip the bosses mechanics, by stacking on one place, behind two column to stuck the boss and AOE him down, and other strategy of the likes happened.
A lot of players missed the Trinity that give more organization and more purpose to fights.

The Elder Scrolls Online

The MMO Trinity.

The MMO Trinity. 122 votes