MMO... the death of RPG?

Ravici · August 2015

So I haven't been playing this that long. To be honest, only a week.

In this short time I have already come to the conclusion that this has effectivvely killed the Elder Scrolls as an RPG.

My reasoning is because there is no way to actually think and plan things or methodically progress through an area because (as I just swore at the screen a few minutes ago), when you enter a delve, area or anything as a solo player, someone else comes along and runs past you killing everything at a million miles an hour, without pausing for anything, no looting crates or such.

Now that is all well and good, you put it down to different people liking different ways of playing and most people currently seem to want to get as much money as they can and get the best gear and jump into pvp to achieve God knows what aims (I'm not a PVPer so I don't completely understand the goals unless it's just for the "I'm badder than you" aspect). What destroys any possibility of being methodical when clearing areas is the respawn. So this dude/dudette has just shot past you killing everything, you are going through looting all the goodies (and what some may refer to as junk) so by the time you are a little further into the area, the respawn cycle has begun. Now you have enemies in front, behind, to the side, everywhere. Your logical progress has suddenly gone completely out of the window.

Now, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It certainly makes it more interesting when you suddenly get attacked by four guys behind you and while taking them on and backing up, you back up into the next group of enemies thus becoming a 1 on 8 fight that can get silly seriously quickly. It can be good fun

However..... that's good fun for an MMO, not necessarily for an RPG. So, has MMO killed off RPG? The two are supposed to go together to form one stupid long acronym but.... has the old RPG we used to know and love gone the way of the Dodo for the sake of the jumpy/shouty/shooty brigade?

Thoughts?

ColoursYouHave · August 2015

MMORPG and RPG are two different genres, and the RPG aspect acts differently in each one. Even if you don't like the RPG part of MMOs, you can't really say it is the death of RPGs because companies are still making RPGs that are not MMO. If you don't like the multiplayer aspect of MMORPGs, you should just stick to regular single player RPGs.

Also remember, this isn't the next installment in the Elder Scrolls series. Bethesda will continue making single player RPGs. This is just an Elder Scrolls game of a different genre, but does not mean games like this will be the future of the Elder Scrolls series.

Savodral_Maryralu · August 2015

I love this game but I will 100% be excited to play another elderscrolls game. I enjoy the absolute depth in this game and I'm still astonished by the amount of quests in this.

The single player game will always have a huge market.

Ravici · August 2015

I can respect that thinking. With just one question.

Which company that used to make RPG's that then decided to include MMO type options then produced another non MMO RPG?

ColoursYouHave · August 2015

Ravici wrote: »

I can respect that thinking. With just one question.

Which company that used to make RPG's that then decided to include MMO type options then produced another non MMO RPG?

I don't know, this is the only MMO I've ever gotten into. But it has been made 100% clear that Bethesda will continue to make single player Elder Scrolls games just as they always have. This game technically wasn't even made by the same company that makes Elder Scrolls games. The only thing ESO has to do with the Elder Scrolls series is the lore and the fact that Bethesda allowed ZoS to make an MMO using their series.

Rikal · August 2015

No worries OP. Companies choose what to make based on expected sales. The last solo RPG was a success, so they will make more!

Ravici · August 2015

Savodral_Maryralu wrote: »

I love this game but I will 100% be excited to play another elderscrolls game. I enjoy the absolute depth in this game and I'm still astonished by the amount of quests in this.

The single player game will always have a huge market.

There are quite a few irritating things about it but so far, I am really enjoying it too

Darlgon · August 2015

Ravici wrote: »

I can respect that thinking. With just one question.

Which company that used to make RPG's that then decided to include MMO type options then produced another non MMO RPG?

Well. I wil say this..

Bethesda Game Studios makes the Elder Scrolls RPGs like Skyrim.
Zenimax Online Studios makes THE Elder Scrolls MMO.

Bethesda Softworks is the umbrella parent company

So the question does not apply.

Its like saying that because GM makes Chevys, they have to stop producing GMCs and Cadillacs. You are comparing apples to bananas because they came from the same store.

Personally, when some asdf hat comes in and clears all the mobs in front of me, I just /sitchair where I am and wait or /lute and listen to some music, keeping an eye out for respawns behind me. Respawns are usually pretty fast and that prevents the problem you described.

Artheiron · August 2015

Ravici wrote: »

I can respect that thinking. With just one question.

Which company that used to make RPG's that then decided to include MMO type options then produced another non MMO RPG?

I can't count any. I understand what you mean, people hate me when I talk about the stuff that this game lacks, but the truth is if all these details were in this game, designed better, or done by people who are actually capable to do the job right. This game would kill the other mmorpgs. They didn't take mmorpgs RPG part seriously and now eso is yet another mediocre mmo.

This is not what I say, go read the steam user reviews. Youtube videos, comments etc.

RedTalon · August 2015

Don't worry that is why they have different studios doing different things, remember there is one big corp, with many different studios doing other things, and the studio that makes the single player games is still making single player games fallout 4 is coming out, which means next single player elder scrolls will be around the corner.

They even have another studio making a moba style game from the looks of it battlecry or some such.

Zenimax is a huge corp

Appleblade · August 2015

Fallout 4 is releasing in November. That means Bethesda is already working on Elder Scrolls 6. They deliberately created a different company for ESO. Keep calm and RPG on.

Ravici · August 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Ravici wrote: »

I can respect that thinking. With just one question.

Which company that used to make RPG's that then decided to include MMO type options then produced another non MMO RPG?

Well. I wil say this..

Bethesda Game Studios makes the Elder Scrolls RPGs like Skyrim.
Zenimax Online Studios makes THE Elder Scrolls MMO.

Bethesda Softworks is the umbrella parent company

So the question does not apply.

Its like saying that because GM makes Chevys, they have to stop producing GMCs and Cadillacs. You are comparing apples to bananas because they came from the same store.

Personally, when some asdf hat comes in and clears all the mobs in front of me, I just /sitchair where I am and wait or /lute and listen to some music, keeping an eye out for respawns behind me. Respawns are usually pretty fast and that prevents the problem you described.

Actually, your analogy is totally flawed. The correct version would be, the Phantom was made famous by Rolls Royce, so when another Phantom (using the same marketing/hype) is made by Fiat, then it is a misrepresentation of the name

Carde · August 2015

Ravici wrote: »

I can respect that thinking. With just one question.

Which company that used to make RPG's that then decided to include MMO type options then produced another non MMO RPG?

This isn't like where Blizzard decided to focus on WoW rather than make more Warcraft games.

Bethesda branch will still be making single player TES RPG's. This is its own thing. I wish people could separate the two things from each other because name is the only thing they share.

Ravici · August 2015

Carde wrote: »

Ravici wrote: »

I can respect that thinking. With just one question.

Which company that used to make RPG's that then decided to include MMO type options then produced another non MMO RPG?

This isn't like where Blizzard decided to focus on WoW rather than make more Warcraft games.

Bethesda branch will still be making single player TES RPG's. This is its own thing. I wish people could separate the two things from each other because name is the only thing they share.

The name is the reason the game is purchased/played

Tbh, I never even knew they were from two different companies until this thread

Mojmir · August 2015

relax, a handful of companies have been F'n up ultima online for awhile now and thats still going.

Carde · August 2015

Ravici wrote: »

The name is the reason the game is purchased/played

Your reason, maybe.

Ravici · August 2015

Carde wrote: »

Ravici wrote: »

The name is the reason the game is purchased/played

Your reason, maybe.

I am making an assumption that it is the reason why they used the name in the first place

Of course, it's only an assumption so I could be completely wrong in thinking the franchise was used to help the game sales

ColoursYouHave · August 2015

Ravici wrote: »

Carde wrote: »

Ravici wrote: »

The name is the reason the game is purchased/played

Your reason, maybe.

I am making an assumption that it is the reason why they used the name in the first place

Of course, it's only an assumption so I could be completely wrong in thinking the franchise was used to help the game sales

FWIW, the only reason I got the game was because it was set in the Elder Scrolls universe. I've tried several different MMOs, but could never remain interested long enough to get hooked. I've been a TES fan for a long time though. This game had just enough TES in it to get me hooked, to the point where I really don't care too much about the Elder Scrolls side of it anymore. Despite many flaws, from the game and company alike, this is still a very fun game.

I think having it take place in the Elder Scrolls universe is what it took to get people interested in the first place, but it requires the game itself being good to keep those Elder Scrolls fans invested, and so far it has worked for me, and I'm sure many others.

Rikal · August 2015

Artheiron wrote: »

Ravici wrote: »

I can respect that thinking. With just one question.

Which company that used to make RPG's that then decided to include MMO type options then produced another non MMO RPG?

I can't count any. I understand what you mean, people hate me when I talk about the stuff that this game lacks, but the truth is if all these details were in this game, designed better, or done by people who are actually capable to do the job right. This game would kill the other mmorpgs. They didn't take mmorpgs RPG part seriously and now eso is yet another mediocre mmo.

This is not what I say, go read the steam user reviews. Youtube videos, comments etc.

Hmm, vague generic criticism and finger pointing. No knowledge of how things are actually done, or any plan to get them done. You are the Donald Trump of ESO forums.

timidobserver · August 2015

There will almost certainly be another Elder Scrolls single player game. You just have to wait for it.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2015

In many ways I wish delves had the option of being instanced or open. That way if you want to bump into random other players you can, which is a good way to meet new people. Alternately, if instancing were allowed, they could also scale things like dungeons so players of level X could actually team with Y. One thing I miss in this game is the features like sidekicking from city of heroes or star trek online.

Artheiron · August 2015

@ColoursYouHave that's the point. "but it requires the game itself being good to keep those Elder Scrolls fans invested" you said.

They say skyrim isn't the best tes game when it comes to story telling or isn't a game that has many rpg elements. But it's always a great joy to watch when 2 guys that never played any tes games other than skyrim, never really interested in rpgs, start debating their dissimilar skyrim experiences, how did they achieved this and that, the way they finished the quests, paths they choose etc. you can't really interrupt them.

This is what eso lacks. In eso, questing, exploring, itemization even pvp is on a pre defined path that you have to follow. And the worst thing is that path ends where it begins.

Darlgon · August 2015

Artheiron wrote: »

And the worst thing is that path ends where it begins.

Sorry, couldnt help it..

ColoursYouHave · August 2015

Artheiron wrote: »

@ColoursYouHave that's the point. "but it requires the game itself being good to keep those Elder Scrolls fans invested" you said.

They say skyrim isn't the best tes game when it comes to story telling or isn't a game that has many rpg elements. But it's always a great joy to watch when 2 guys that never played any tes games other than skyrim, never really interested in rpgs, start debating their dissimilar skyrim experiences, how did they achieved this and that, the way they finished the quests, paths they choose etc. you can't really interrupt them.

This is what eso lacks. In eso, questing, exploring, itemization even pvp is on a pre defined path that you have to follow. And the worst thing is that path ends where it begins.

I think when comparing an MMORPG to a single player RPG though, you need to take different things into consideration when trying to make the game "good". By this I mean, the elements that make a single player RPG good are not necessarily the same elements that make an MMORPG good. While I agree that things like questing and exploring in ESO are very linear compared to other TES games, I don't think it is fair to say those factors make ESO a worse game than other games in the series, simply because certain aspects of the game like that need to be different in an MMO than they are in a single player RPG.

That's not to say that those aspects of the game couldn't use improvement, but a good MMO is defined more by things such as progression, community, and multiplayer gameplay, rather than things like questing and exploration.

Ravici · August 2015

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

In many ways I wish delves had the option of being instanced or open. That way if you want to bump into random other players you can, which is a good way to meet new people. Alternately, if instancing were allowed, they could also scale things like dungeons so players of level X could actually team with Y. One thing I miss in this game is the features like sidekicking from city of heroes or star trek online.

This I'm liking (apart from never playing the other games mentioned lol)

The simple idea of making delves/caves/whatever that needs a load of a new area, would be better if there was an option to make them instanced or open.

Enteum · August 2015

There are, however. those that came in and saved my ass from a boss. Only to get that that achievement and exp. If they had not rolled in at that time, I'd be dust in a ruin.

- All out thank you to those that dropped in at that time!

RizaHawkeye · August 2015

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Ravici wrote: »

Carde wrote: »

Ravici wrote: »

The name is the reason the game is purchased/played

Your reason, maybe.

I am making an assumption that it is the reason why they used the name in the first place

Of course, it's only an assumption so I could be completely wrong in thinking the franchise was used to help the game sales

FWIW, the only reason I got the game was because it was set in the Elder Scrolls universe. I've tried several different MMOs, but could never remain interested long enough to get hooked. I've been a TES fan for a long time though....

This pretty much sums it up for me, too.

I did not buy the game at release for the reason that it is an MMO. I've played several MMOs and like them for what they are: an alternative to social media. I've made friends, and some friendships even transcended the games. But when I really want to lose myself in a game, I choose for a solo game.

I finally bought this game on sale for about $23.00, Imperial edition. I figured if I hated it, I wouldn't be out that much. Fortunately, I didn't hate it ... but then my expectations were pretty low. I didn't believe the marketing pitch "play as you want," so I wasn't disappointed when some parts of the game didn't work for me.

To the OP, I feel your pain. I've posted myself about people who run past you to kill all the mobs. I rage like you but then I have to tell myself it's an MMO and what did I expect?

If it's any consolation, it does get better as you get beyond the starter zones - although when you get to Vet zones, then you have the problem of people kind of freaking out of you want to play through their favorite grind zones.

RizaHawkeye · August 2015

Enteum wrote: »

There are, however. those that came in and saved my ass from a boss. Only to get that that achievement and exp. If they had not rolled in at that time, I'd be dust in a ruin.

- All out thank you to those that dropped in at that time!

I could say that, too. Thanks.

Funny thing, though, today. I rereolled a new character and was in a starter zone, running a dungeon. On my screen I saw someone battling a mob and I just went past them, moving to the next mob. Suddenly, my chat starts vomiting these ALL CAP messages from the person I ran past, calling me names and asking why I didn't jump in and prevent him/her from dying.

I explained people get frustrated when I kill their mobs. And, frankly, I wasn't paying attention to him/her. But funny, that's never happened to me before.

Ravici · August 2015

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Enteum wrote: »

There are, however. those that came in and saved my ass from a boss. Only to get that that achievement and exp. If they had not rolled in at that time, I'd be dust in a ruin.

- All out thank you to those that dropped in at that time!

I could say that, too. Thanks.

Funny thing, though, today. I rereolled a new character and was in a starter zone, running a dungeon. On my screen I saw someone battling a mob and I just went past them, moving to the next mob. Suddenly, my chat starts vomiting these ALL CAP messages from the person I ran past, calling me names and asking why I didn't jump in and prevent him/her from dying.

I explained people get frustrated when I kill their mobs. And, frankly, I wasn't paying attention to him/her. But funny, that's never happened to me before.

Haha. I usually stop to help out if I see someone outnumbered or seeming to have issues. I don't care if they give me grief for getting in their way. If they look like they need help, I'm going to offer it and suffer the consequences later.

That being said, a couple of days age I saw someone on the opposite river bank to me in the hag fens getting chased by quite a few mobs. I was only low 20's myself but I thought what the heck and threw in some multiple target firebombs (I chose multiple target instead of increased power 'because' I like soloing). It wasn't until the dudes I was taking out were down I noticed the guy I was *cough*helping*cough* was level 40+ and could easily take care of themselves. Yer, I kind of jokily shrugged that off lol

Gelston · August 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

Bethesda Game Studios makes the Elder Scrolls RPGs like Skyrim.
Zenimax Online Studios makes THE Elder Scrolls MMO.

Bethesda Softworks is the umbrella parent company

Not quite. ZeniMax Media is the parent company, Bethesda and ZoS are both subsidiaries of it. Bethesda has very little to do with ESO though, other than giving them a few resources from past TES games they made. Bethesda doesn't develop, program, write stuff for, or anything else for ESO...

As to the OP, If they were done with RPGs (or if ESO was the "death" of their singleplayer RPGs) ZeniMax Media would have scrapped Bethesda by now and moved those assets they planned to keep over to ZoS. They obviously didn't do this and Fallout 4 is coming soon.

As for the references to Blizzard, yeah they stopped making Warcraft RTS after WoW. Big whoop. They still make StarCraft, which was loads more popular, and also Diablo.

Messy1 · August 2015

When this game first debuted Matt Firor described the game as a "AAA online RPG"

TES success stems more from its RPG elements than its multiplayer capabilities. However the MMO style of game play definitely has a foothold in the ESO game mechanics and development.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2014/04/04/launch-and-new-trailer