Sausage wrote: »

Skyrim definitely was the best fantasy of its time. I think Witcher 3 is now the King, its definitely better than Dragon Age. I actually think Witcher 3 raised the bar by alot. I still hope though ES6 is going to use ES series strenghts.

I bought Witcher3 hoping that was the case. For me, it was not. I played it maybe 10 hours.

The graphics are gorgeous in terms of resolution, but the design is, for me, like running around through a medieval trailer park. Trash everywhere, scrubby looking dirty NPC's. I'm sure it's realistic, but sort of ruins the sense of fantasy. I felt like I needed to take a shower after every playing session.

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Morrowind was the best cause it expected you to have and use a brain. If you killed the quest giver, then you're an idiot and your game is broken. Start over.

Skyrim you literally can not fail a quest. Can't do it. Impossible. Only way to fail at anything in Skyrim is to die. Its hand holding gone wild.

If Bethesda would make a game more in the realm of Morrowind but with updated graphics and gameplay engine, it would dethrone Morrowind easily. But they don't cause they think people will say its too hard and won't buy it.

I disagree. I killed a few quest givers and had to go back to a previous save to get it.

IMO Skyrim was the best game I have ever played.

OP, I mean you no offense.

Skyrim was everything that is wrong with modern gaming in one package.

It's got some polish and mass marketing, but the game has enormous problems and ultimately no substance.

Lazy Design

• It does nothing to advance the fantasy RPG genre
• Generic in content, story and gameplay
• Poor graphics compared to what was possible at the time (especially noticeable that it was held back on PC, with its pixelated textures)
• Doesn't really have any actual gameplay other than collect armor and kill things

Terribly, Terribly Executed NPCs

• So much hype was made pre-release about this, in typical Todd Howard game fashion
• Has unrealistic, boring talk-your-ear-off dialogue (nobody talks and acts the way these guys do, standing there like a block of wood delivering you their life story and how they lost their son at first meeting)
• Terrible AI
• Unrealistic crap routines instead of real AI
• Insane combat AI and mechanics that were bested by most games in N64 days (more on combat later)
• It is like they hired someone at very end to tack on a few AI routines, none of which work together
• You save a dragon, the town cheers, then you pick up a fork, and they start trying to kill you.. they just saw you kill a dragon
  
• None of the AI routines display any convincing human behavior or co-function
  
  What is good AI?
  
  S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
  • The enemies use sight, sound and memory to track you where they last saw or heard you.
  • The friendly NPC and enemy NPC dynamics are complex
  • The faction systems and who attacks who are complex
  • The way animals roam in packs, seeking out prey to kill in real time is complex
  • The way dogs get scared once you pick a few of the pack off and run away is complex
  • All of this is real-time actual AI
  • There is endless actual convincing thinking programmed into it
  • Not a few crappy routines that don't work together, and then marketed as the god of AI (Skyrim)
  
  Mass Marketing and Lies
  
  Everything said about the game turned out to be less than what it was said to be. Happens in modern games. Skyrim is the poster boy for it. The actual product is unfinished generic garbage. Once again, it is the modders who have made the game a worthwhile product, and yet Bethesda gets the credit.
  
  Awful Combat
  
  I don't even feel like explaining this; there are so many games that show what modern combat should be like in a fantasy game (e.g. any Zelda). Ocarina of Time has enemies that strafe and stand and fight with you, and give a reasonably realistic sword fight. This was in 1995. All you do in Skyrim is wave your weapon in front of you with horrible animations, and a generic, crappy exploitable stat system. Nothing has any solid feel or impact. Armor is senselessly implemented. Just a stat that ups defense. There is nothing to modernize or advance the genre. Enemies run in a straight line at you waving their weapon around unintelligibly. It's crap.

I could keep going on. This was about 10 minutes of what is wrong with it, from the top of my head. The game is ultimately the epitome of marketing something and pretending it is greater than it is, and the result being bland, uninspired and doing nothing special.

The only good changes in it over Oblivion were ripped off directly from Bioshock.

DenMoria wrote: »

rb2001 wrote: »

OP, I mean you no offense.

Skyrim was everything that is wrong with modern gaming in one package.

It's got some polish and mass marketing, but the game has enormous problems and ultimately no substance.

Lazy Design

• It does nothing to advance the fantasy RPG genre
• Generic in content, story and gameplay
• Poor graphics compared to what was possible at the time (especially noticeable that it was held back on PC, with its pixelated textures)
• Doesn't really have any actual gameplay other than collect armor and kill things

Terribly, Terribly Executed NPCs

• So much hype was made pre-release about this, in typical Todd Howard game fashion
• Has unrealistic, boring talk-your-ear-off dialogue (nobody talks and acts the way these guys do, standing there like a block of wood delivering you their life story and how they lost their son at first meeting)
• Terrible AI
• Unrealistic crap routines instead of real AI
• Insane combat AI and mechanics that were bested by most games in N64 days (more on combat later)
• It is like they hired someone at very end to tack on a few AI routines, none of which work together
• You save a dragon, the town cheers, then you pick up a fork, and they start trying to kill you.. they just saw you kill a dragon
  
• None of the AI routines display any convincing human behavior or co-function
  
  What is good AI?
  
  S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
  • The enemies use sight, sound and memory to track you where they last saw or heard you.
  • The friendly NPC and enemy NPC dynamics are complex
  • The faction systems and who attacks who are complex
  • The way animals roam in packs, seeking out prey to kill in real time is complex
  • The way dogs get scared once you pick a few of the pack off and run away is complex
  • All of this is real-time actual AI
  • There is endless actual convincing thinking programmed into it
  • Not a few crappy routines that don't work together, and then marketed as the god of AI (Skyrim)
  
  Mass Marketing and Lies
  
  Everything said about the game turned out to be less than what it was said to be. Happens in modern games. Skyrim is the poster boy for it. The actual product is unfinished generic garbage. Once again, it is the modders who have made the game a worthwhile product, and yet Bethesda gets the credit.
  
  Awful Combat
  
  I don't even feel like explaining this; there are so many games that show what modern combat should be like in a fantasy game (e.g. any Zelda). Ocarina of Time has enemies that strafe and stand and fight with you, and give a reasonably realistic sword fight. This was in 1995. All you do in Skyrim is wave your weapon in front of you with horrible animations, and a generic, crappy exploitable stat system. Nothing has any solid feel or impact. Armor is senselessly implemented. Just a stat that ups defense. There is nothing to modernize or advance the genre. Enemies run in a straight line at you waving their weapon around unintelligibly. It's crap.

I could keep going on. This was about 10 minutes of what is wrong with it, from the top of my head. The game is ultimately the epitome of marketing something and pretending it is greater than it is, and the result being bland, uninspired and doing nothing special.

The only good changes in it over Oblivion were ripped off directly from Bioshock.

Yeah, yeah. I can't disagree with you (and I have 6K+ hours of Skyrim), but that doesn't make me love it any less, no matter it's shortcomings. I accept it for what it is and love it all the same.

I'm just one of those casual folks that like to come home from work and kill a few things, do a pointless quest and get a lame thank you and move on. I don't play for a "challenge" or for "accomplishments" and couldn't care less about "leaderboards" or "rankings".

Modern games are made to appeal to a wide audience and, since most players are just casual players that won't stick with a game long term, they just want simple mechanics, simple stories and simple solutions. It's about selling as many copies as you can, as quickly and as long term as you can. Modern AAA game releases have taken a page from Movie marketing. Flash & Bang promotion to get 'em in the door and get their cash.

On the plus side, at least ESO is frustrating to a casual like me who's not used to actually having a challenge, so that's a plus!

Also - what the heck is S.T.A.L.K.E.R?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=s.t.a.l.k.e.r.

It is a highly ambitious, highly thoughtful and creative game. It is an open world shooter with RPG elements. The basis is the real-world Chernobyl exclusion zone. I don't have the time to explain why it is so good, but there are reviews out there.

It is not for the "casual gamer". It is intense and real-time, complex everything. Bullets are modeled as physical objects with gravity. Everything is modeled. Nothing is these fake crappy routines that most modern games cheaply use.

In terms of atmosphere, it is second only to Metroid Prime.

In terms of how you feel while playing it - sad, depressed, intense, constant dread, often terrified, slipping through the darkness hoping you aren't seen.

It requires the player to think, use their head and not just go in and expect to win by blasting everything.

The armor is actually modeled. Different real world weapons, ballistics, bullets, ammo types for each gun, on and on, etc.

You need to be on your toes, thinking like a person in a real situation at all times, not thinking "now what *** game mechanic can I exploit?", which is what you think while playing ESO or Skyrim or any modern crap game.

It is always a good time to watch someone who has been raised on normal crappy shooters try their first firefight in Stalker. Hilarity ensues when they realize "hey what happened, the enemies behaved like.. uh.. people .. hey I can't exploit *** mechanics and broken ai.. hey im dead in 2 seconds".

Even "stealth" in Stalker is modeled "as is", real time and realistic. There is no ridiculous "stealth mode". There is no magic way to hide or make zero noise. You can't stand behind someone and have them not notice you. None of that makes any sense.

No, in Stalker, you stealth by doing it how you would in real life. Lots of quick on the spot thinking, constant movement and misdirection, knowing the battlefield and controlling it and where enemies last saw you, heard you, etc.

Also a wide array of equipment, modifications and attachments for all weapons, and a trusty combat knife.

The story is very sci-fi but also completely real-world based in a way that will make you quiver. While playing, think about what actually happened in 1986.

The game is somewhat unfinished, but the ambition gleams through. There is a very dedicated community of modders who have improved the game by miles, but I still had the most fun the first time with no mods.

That's a strange way to spell Morrowind.

Skyrim is best Skyrim.
Oblivion is best Oblivion.
Morrowind is best Morrowind.
M'aiq is best M'aiq.

fallout, just sayin


I kid, I preferred Oblivion.

zornyan wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

It sold over 20 million copies. So it did something right apparently. It really is my favorite TES game.

I think my favorite thing about it, was that it didn't force you into a specific class. You were allowed to build your character the way you wanted. Just that alone, enhanced the role playing aspects of it.

Sales numbers mean jack, that's pure marketing.

Hell I could invest 500 million and make a game about building cardboard boxes, and with enough advertising I'd wager you could sell 20 million easy.

Look at destiny, massive massively anticipated game, hugely hyped up for years, 500m budget, first of its kind blah blah.

20 million people bought the game, 17 million completely quit before a month was up, it got so bad, Activision and bungies stock took a massive hit, losing hundreds of millions, as they thought they'd sell more copies over the next 6 months going along with the hype train. Only to find out it was literally being massively stockpiled on shelves as no one wanted it..

I never played Destiny so I have no opinion about that game. I was only stating that regardless of anyone's dislike of Skyrim, it was still a huge success for Bethesda.

I continue to enjoy the game immensely.

Thank you for your opinion.

Morrowind.

amatic wrote: »

Actually i think eso is the best (though i only played this,skyrim and oblivion).
The game is phenomenal and is now my favorite game of all time..and iv been playing since the 80s lol.
I cant wait for ic

This attitude....I like it!

ESO is a great game!