Yes, women play games.

Corellon Thromorin · August 2015

Serenstar75 wrote: »

The only thing I find annoying as a female in the game is how the storylines are created. NPCs are constantly asking my female character if she's interested in asking that other lady out or courting her. Other than maybe two males in the game, the female isn't really asked if she's interested in them. It doesn't matter if I'm male or female behind the screen, it'd just be nice if the stories actually had some trigger around what your PC is (male, female, vamp, ww, etc.) I'm tired of being hit on by chicks. I'm not anti-lesbian or anything, but it shows a game that is written catered to males. I think the armor is crafted perfectly for males and females. I have no complaints there.

Oh, no, dear. No.
If they did that I can be 100% sure that the LGBTQABCDEFG123 players would complain.

ShadoPanauin · August 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Are you referring to the OP or to one of the comments? If you are referring to my OP, I posted it because too often it is CLEAR that MMOs (including this one) are still being geared to a young male audience. Look at the Five Companions. Only ONE woman among them and she's a busty blonde. Oh and of course Tharn is always pointing out how dumb she is. Granted, he's disdainful of the rest of them as well but he saves most of his "you're clearly an idiot" schtick for Lyris. In the animated trailers for this game, which look pretty awesome, there is ONE female character. And, ironically, she shows plenty of cleavage and upper thigh..while you make most of the actual armor available in the game stuff a nun would wear and have actually REMOVED some of the PRETTIER light armor.

The issue of character customization, which is huge with all players but I might argue is ESPECIALLY dear to female players as a general (though not ironclad) rule continues to be largely ignored. Ditto player housing. Female players often want a more immersive world, which means there needs to be more to it than JUST killing things (as much fun as that is!) but this, like every other MMO on the market, is almost the sole focus.

You made us an astonishingly gorgeous world...but you don't let us "live" in it yet. There is so little we can interact with aside from mobs. So what I'm saying is that your devs need to start giving some serious thought to what female gamers might like to have instead of just trying to knock off what has traditionally already "sold" and just doing it with better graphics. We womenfolk are demanding. We want more. And we're happy to pay for it when you make us happy.

THAT was my point.

EDIT: And after scanning through some of the comments now...no, there was no question involved. The article was meant as a "heads up" for ZOS. And as a subject for discussion.

I'd rather see ZOS fix their game BEFORE adding things similar to what you've mentioned. Hell, 3k-50k ping is NORMAL in GvG PvP battles and has always been from 1.3 forward.

crashen17b14_ESO · August 2015

As for "What women want", well Morna, you are wrong. I play this game, along with WoW and Star Wars: The Old Republic with my girlfriend. In all three of those games, she pokes fun at me for being so damn vain and spending so much time putting together the perfect outfit for my characters, while I poke fun at her for skipping quest text and story and just wanting to KILL-KILL-KILL! in SWTOR, she could not care less about her stronghold (player housing) while I have spent... too many credits and too much time building mine up and decorating it just right.

In fact, if I were to make half the claims you made in your second post, I would be slammed as a mysognist pig. "Women want pretty dresses and houses more than men? Are you saying women just want to dress up and play house?!" Also, ONLY women wan't new armor styles, different clothing options and interesting pets and mounts? lolno. You bet your pasty undead vampire ass I snatched up that noble suit ASAP. And I am definitely going to get those halloween costumes and the skeletal horse if possible.

Also, to imply that 'women just want to be pretty' is damn silly. Just like saying they want more/less revealing clothing. Again, looking at my girlfriend, her tastes vary hugely. Sometimes, she wants her characters to flounce around in battle bikinis and sexy skirts. Other times, she wants to rock out regal robes that ooze power and sophistication, and sometimes she wants big scary armor that makes her character look fearsome and terrifying. It usually depends on what kind of mood she is in, and more importantly, what character she is playing. If she is playing an in your face evil female warrior, you can count on her wearing heavy armor that looks like she built it from the remains of her slain foes. If she is playing a back-of-the crowd caster, she will probably wear elegant robes that speak more of supremacy and might, with a hint of sexiness. Even her skimpier outfits tend to be less 'sexy' and more 'sultry'.

But this is because she knows the difference between "Sexy" and "Slutty".

Once she has an outfit picked out though, she rarely cares enough to change it up. I on the other hand change appearances and outfits faster than you blink. Admittedly I err more towards fearsome, macabre, or creepy, I still am a lot more fickle about my fashion and vanity than most female gamers I know. For me, it's all about creating the right image for my character.

So, I guess my point is, the points you make aren't relevant to just women, or just guys. Most gamers want similar things, and dividing the playerbase along gender lines just diminishes our collective voice when it comes to telling the game designers just what exactly we want. To say nothing of sowing discord and strife amongst a group of people who are already divided enough as it is. (Console vs PC, Alliance vs Horde, Covenant vs Pact, Red vs Blue.)

SugaComa · August 2015

I'm not ncljned to agree that more women at games, more females but women ... No that's like saying more men play games ...

Truth is if your a game you are a kid at heart and dont quantify the man woman demograph ... It's science I telll thee

Recremen · August 2015

Minno wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

That despite the increase numbers of female gamers, the male numbers still dominate. With that comes gender specific issues that sometimes get ignored or forgotten about.

Nothing negative; its nice to see this post to remind us not everyone's white, straight, and a male while playing games.
Makes the community think twice about the games it makes or plays.

Also less armor showing boob shapes.

http://io9.com/why-boob-plate-armor-would-actually-kill-you-496925522

The skin-tight armor is pretty annoying, but I'm pretty sure it's not intended for it to be differentiated by character sex. My buff characters also have their pecs (and every other part of them, really) accentuated by the skin-tight armors. I think they way they did certain armor tracings, though, the women do get a prominent curve of accent metal under the breasts.

Compare these

It certainly couldn't hurt to get looked at!

Teiji · August 2015

In all seriousness, could you please make the original post which is supposed to be the starting point in facilitating discussion, less vague and ambiguous please?

I politely ask this due to the original post not detailing several very important things;

The goal of the thread
The topic of discussion for readers to begin thought processes from

You MIGHT want to start paying attention to that ZOS. Just sayin'.

Upon reading the original post, readers will feel that your saying that ZoS needs to pay attention that women play videogames.

Okay, that's simple enough and easy to understand. But where do you want this discussion to go? What is the goal of the discussion? That everyone should know that women play videogames? But I thought people already knew this? How do you want ZoS to pay attention to the fact that females play videogames? What could ZoS do better? How could they do it better?

Carde · August 2015

There was an entire beta test group that was female only (mostly). They are well represented here, for sure.

QueenCandy · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

QueenCandy · August 2015

Hope499 wrote: »

I am confused as to the point of this post.

Does it mean they don't address females in this game? Does it mean you want more make-up choices and hair styles? More pretty clothes? More female enemies? more what?

Whats the point???? Am i missing something???

See? I rest my case. Clueless.

cjthibs · August 2015

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

Umm...he was asking what was meant by "You MIGHT want to start paying attention to that ZOS. Just sayin'."

Which comes across as inflammatory on its own. Just sayin'!

QueenCandy · August 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

Umm...he was asking what was meant by "You MIGHT want to start paying attention to that ZOS. Just sayin'."

Which comes across as inflammatory on its own. Just sayin'!

Which in itself is another male that has not one single clue. I don't know how else to get that across....

cjthibs · August 2015

QueenCandy wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

Umm...he was asking what was meant by "You MIGHT want to start paying attention to that ZOS. Just sayin'."

Which comes across as inflammatory on its own. Just sayin'!

Which in itself is another male that has not one single clue. I don't know how else to get that across....

Asking for clarification means someone is clueless... Cool story.

Also, it's not a matter of 'getting it across.' I disagree.
Explain how asking for clarification is akin to being clueless and perhaps I will come over to your side.

trinta · August 2015

QueenCandy wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

Umm...he was asking what was meant by "You MIGHT want to start paying attention to that ZOS. Just sayin'."

Which comes across as inflammatory on its own. Just sayin'!

Which in itself is another male that has not one single clue. I don't know how else to get that across....

As a female gamer, I'm going to ask you to please be quiet now.

jkemmery · August 2015

crashen17b14_ESO wrote: »

Honestly I always thought Lyris was a big middle finger to the stereotyptical female trope in fantasy. She's big. Like, bigger than even regular players (with the exception of the freakishly tall altmer.) She's bigger than even nords. And not in a fatty or monstrous way. She's just physically larger. SHE rescues YOU the first time you meet her, and she IS confident, in her own way. She is sort of self-conscious, but in her Coldharbour quest, we see why she is so self-conscious, despite being the best of the best of the best (or else she wouldn't be bodyguard to the Emperor).

Yeah, she has daddy issues, because her daddy was, gasp, a complicated man. He didn't treat her like a pretty pretty little princess for a reason that, while not right, does seem natural. He saw his wife in her, and he felt guilt for leading to her death (since apparently he had giant blood in him too, even though he was like... half Lyris' height.) But the thing is... they found catharsis. Lyris' daddy issues were resolved when they actually were able to address them and talk to each other.

Yeah, she is self conscious about her size (like most people, men and women alike). But we see why. She is treated like crap by small-minded men who were threatened by the fact that she was a physical powerhouse. But what happens when she stands up to them, even with the player's help? She kicks their asses and realizes that they are wrong.

Yeah, Tharn picks on her more than the rest (the rest being... Sai Sahan, because Tharn sure ain't going to argue with The Prophet.) But Tharn is an insufferably arrogant toolbag who would have probably picked on Sai just as much if we had rescued him first instead of Lyris. In fact, Sai is more affected by Tharn's jibes than Lyris is, since Tharn is one of Sai's torturer's (metaphysically speaking) in his prison. Lyris tends to give as good as she gets with Tharn, even slugging him at one point, and several times shutting him up so well that he's speechless.

In fact, by the end of the main quest, I feel like Tharn developed a (grudging) respect for Lyris and Sai, even though he's too much of a jerk to really show it.

Beyond all that, Lyris ISN'T a stereotypical model=quality 'beauty'. She has a sort of plain face, and looks more like... a regular normal person. Neither ugly nor strikingly beautiful. That was one of the first things I noticed about her, and thought that was pretty neat. She looked like... a person. And not a barbie doll.

In writing this post up, and thinking about it more, I actually think Lyris is one of the best developed characters in gaming history. She demonstrates real, actual growth, her flaws are human and relate-able regardless of gender, and she actually seems like someone you could look up to. All of this done without a sense of pandering or "everyone is special!" after-school message feel. She grows from a competent, but not confident character, with a difficult childhood (who hasn't had one of those?), issues with her body image (just as often as women feel like they are too big, men feel like they aren't big or strong enough), and who is frequently underestimated by her peers (ain't that the damn truth), to a character who is confident, but not cocky, comfortable with their body shape, found catharsis with their past and shut the haters up, while earning the respect of the people who's opinion matters.

And all of these things were accomplished in ways that the regular person can relate to and understand. Have a bad relationship with a parent? Talk to them as an adult, see if you can find out what went wrong. Don't feel good about how you look? Find the positives, rely on yourself, and confront the *** who have a problem with it, and realize they are just petty idiots. People underestimate you and think you aren't smart/clever/good enough? Prove them wrong. Also, maybe pop them right in the nose. Well, probably not that part.

All of this was dealt with to the backdrop of a crazy fantastical planemeld apocalypse, but the true journey for Lyris, like for most people, was more about coming to terms with yourself.

@crashen17b14_ESO, you may want to consider adding a spoiler tag to this ...

Acrolas · August 2015

QueenCandy wrote: »

Which in itself is another male that has not one single clue. I don't know how else to get that across....

This isn't a woman trying to be understood. It's a woman citing questionable statistics from a single study and expecting such statistics to justify an uncertain position.
You can't fix that. This isn't some Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus communication hang-up.
It's just girl trolling. Which is like guy trolling, except whether you answer or ignore girl trolling, you're wrong.

We'd understand the OP if it were more specific. But the gd article even says, "the study didn't assess the age or gender demographics of specific games."

It also says,

"So what games have women been playing all these years, now that we know they haven't just been wasting time trying to get their Facebook friends to give them free lives on Candy Crush?

Casual computer games, mostly."

Like, seriously, if that article were supposed to be a life preserver, it's a giant venomous snake with porcupines glued to it instead. Quite counterproductive to any intelligent gender gaming discussion.

WalkingNorth · August 2015

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming

After trying to decide whether you are serious or trolling....

I'm not Rich Lambert, nor do I play him on TV, but I assume that as the Creative Director of ESO, he is asking OP for clarification regarding the statement "You MIGHT want to pay attention to that, ZOS".

Asking the OP for specifics is hardly clueless - nor are the following posts asking the same thing. And how is calling your fellow posters "typical clueless males" worse than misogyny?

OneWhomWaits · August 2015

trinta wrote: »

QueenCandy wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

Umm...he was asking what was meant by "You MIGHT want to start paying attention to that ZOS. Just sayin'."

Which comes across as inflammatory on its own. Just sayin'!

Which in itself is another male that has not one single clue. I don't know how else to get that across....

As a female gamer, I'm going to ask you to please be quiet now.

TITCR

Carde · August 2015

QueenCandy wrote: »

Which in itself is another male that has not one single clue. I don't know how else to get that across....

You could try elaboration as opposed to indignation. Might work.

Tholian1 · August 2015

Grunim wrote: »

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

There is always women in our group in pvp, in fact our guild leader is a woman and a good leader, and the women in my guild always seem to be complaining that there is just no sexy clothing or armor in ESO.

I'm a woman in your guild who will join you in voice chat sometimes for PvP and I have NEVER complained about a lack of sexy clothing or armor. When a game forces me to wear sexy armor with female characters I don't play that game with female characters. I never want to see a set of armor look protective on a male and that same set look sexy on a female. Never.

If a game is going to provide any sexy outfits it damn well better have some that shows off the assets of both genders

I wouldn't object to more revealing armor choices for male characters. It's only fair.

cjthibs · August 2015

Tholian1 wrote: »

Grunim wrote: »

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

There is always women in our group in pvp, in fact our guild leader is a woman and a good leader, and the women in my guild always seem to be complaining that there is just no sexy clothing or armor in ESO.

I'm a woman in your guild who will join you in voice chat sometimes for PvP and I have NEVER complained about a lack of sexy clothing or armor. When a game forces me to wear sexy armor with female characters I don't play that game with female characters. I never want to see a set of armor look protective on a male and that same set look sexy on a female. Never.

If a game is going to provide any sexy outfits it damn well better have some that shows off the assets of both genders

I wouldn't object to more revealing armor choices for male characters. It's only fair.

I'm with this guy, more options are rarely a bad thing.

firstdecan · August 2015

Read all 5 pages, I still don't know what this thread is about.

Just saying.

Recremen · August 2015

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

Could you maybe not mischaracterize the dev's post? Like he's literally asking if there's something they're not doing right. I'm quite certain there isn't a soul on the dev team who thinks women don't play games, as that's half the target demographic for this series.

Floki_Vilgerdarson · August 2015

I am happy that their is a balance of men and women in this game. : ) It is great to have a hobby we can all enjoy with spouses etc.

Psychobunni · August 2015

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

1- @ZOS_RichLambert is not a forum mod, he is the Creative Director for Talos sake! and just about the only person who bothers even trying to just speak randomly to us on the forum. (gonna hafta start a Leave Rich Alone! club and I'm rarely pleased w/ ZOS myself)

2- The OP read "Sadly, the article doesn't really get into MMOs but as my guild is about a 50-50 men/women split I'd say it's pretty safe to bet a LOT of us "girls" play this game. You MIGHT want to start paying attention to that ZOS. Just sayin'."

Okay...What??? I am female and I didn't get the point. There was no point stated. Everyone knows females play ESO, it's not news. The link isn't specific to ESO, or even the genre...it includes candy crush

By that standard my retired/disabled mother is a gamer too..BUT the OP doesn't even discuss a topic from the link. It discusses nothing at all. Could have been "Hey ZOS, the sky is blue, just sayin" and a link about why the sky is blue....

3- Your post was just as bad as some jerk telling a female where the cooking fire is for speaking in chat...."typical clueless male". Maybe if the OP wasn't typical female expectation of mindreading (my husband claims I do this too lol) everyone would have known what the heck the point was.

Aevric · August 2015

Most of the guilds I've been in have been comprised of nearly half men, half women. This is throughout many, many MMOs, all the way back to the original Everquest, and even further back to all of the Mushes/Muds in the early 90's.
Most of the guys I've seen stating that barely any women game, are PvP'ers (and usually in PvP oriented guilds, and often on PvP servers). Join an RP guild/server/hangout, that's where a lot of the ladies have been all along.

firstdecan · August 2015

Recremen wrote: »

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

Could you maybe not mischaracterize the dev's post? Like he's literally asking if there's something they're not doing right. I'm quite certain there isn't a soul on the dev team who thinks women don't play games, as that's half the target demographic for this series.

Agreed. Lambert was asking for some addressable specifics, and this entire thread is just a circular discussion about girl power in its various forms (I'm not judging, just stating).

The one addressable response was about the gender imbalance of the main characters in the main story, which potentially is an issue ZoS can address with their storylines in future DLCs. I think it will be hard for them though, because varying people will have strong opinions if they read issues of social justice into the story.

If there's two or more women, some people will imply lesbian subtext meant to cater to introverted young men.
If there's no women, some people will imply a glass ceiling exists in Tamriel's adventuring community.
If there's one woman, some people will imply she's just the token female thrown in for female gamers.

It's a no win situation.

wraith808 · August 2015

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

How is that clueless? There was little context in the OP, and he was asking a question. Typical response that encapsulates the reason that Devs don't respond other than /lurk.

cjthibs · August 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

QueenCandy wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

Typical Clueless male response. This is from a moderator no less. Sigh. I'm 48, been gaming for decades. I've encountered other females from the beginning online. I see silly male responses of shock and surprise over women gaming. We just roll our eyes. The misogynist attitudes is no big surprise either since I've seen every type of response since 1993.

I applaud the OP for creating this thread!!

How is that clueless? There was little context in the OP, and he was asking a question. Typical response that encapsulates the reason that Devs don't respond other than /lurk.

Those misogynist Devs better just keep on lurking! We don't want their kind here! Dirty clueless woman-haters!

VilhelmValhalla4 · August 2015

5 pages already, and I'm still not sure what this is about. All I know so far is that:

Both men and women play ESO.
It doesn't matter how its split (whether its 50% male 50% female, or one side higher than the other) because the vast majority of ESO players want the similar things, more options and a better game.
OP's statistics are flawed, and her guild make-up is not necessarily representative of the larger picture.

I would think in a game where you can be almost anything, and all things are essentially equal, we wouldn't see threads like this, but for some reason, especially in this age of identity, being part of group X trumps being apart of the whole community.

RAGUNAnoOne · August 2015

Serenstar75 wrote: »

The only thing I find annoying as a female in the game is how the storylines are created. NPCs are constantly asking my female character if she's interested in asking that other lady out or courting her. Other than maybe two males in the game, the female isn't really asked if she's interested in them. It doesn't matter if I'm male or female behind the screen, it'd just be nice if the stories actually had some trigger around what your PC is (male, female, vamp, ww, etc.) I'm tired of being hit on by chicks. I'm not anti-lesbian or anything, but it shows a game that is written catered to males. I think the armor is crafted perfectly for males and females. I have no complaints there.

What the heck are you talking about, I had a male prostitute call me beautiful in shadowfen and I'm a guy, it is not just on the end of females some characters only react one way.