Yes, women play games.

WalkingNorth · August 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

The issue of character customization, which is huge with all players but I might argue is ESPECIALLY dear to female players as a general (though not ironclad) rule continues to be largely ignored. Ditto player housing. Female players often want a more immersive world, which means there needs to be more to it than JUST killing things (as much fun as that is!) but this, like every other MMO on the market, is almost the sole focus.
SNIP
So what I'm saying is that your devs need to start giving some serious thought to what female gamers might like to have instead of just trying to knock off what has traditionally already "sold" and just doing it with better graphics. We womenfolk are demanding. We want more. And we're happy to pay for it when you make us happy.

wow - I've managed to lurk on the forum for a year and a half without feeling the need to post...but I am simply astonished at this generalization. I am a female player in an all female guild, and the things you mention are nowhere near the top of the our priorities. What do we want? A lot of the same things are guy friends want: reduction to lag in pvp. Additional pve zones and more vet dungeons. Better grind spots and improved drop rates on perfect roe

Seriously, OP, feel free to ask for game elements that are important to you. But don't make it about being a female gamer, and don't make it about being "especially dear" to them. We womenfolk may be demanding, and are willing to pay for what makes us happy, but no more than our male friends.

Cazzy · August 2015

I gave you your first 'agree' @WalkingNorth

Serenstar75 · August 2015

The only thing I find annoying as a female in the game is how the storylines are created. NPCs are constantly asking my female character if she's interested in asking that other lady out or courting her. Other than maybe two males in the game, the female isn't really asked if she's interested in them. It doesn't matter if I'm male or female behind the screen, it'd just be nice if the stories actually had some trigger around what your PC is (male, female, vamp, ww, etc.) I'm tired of being hit on by chicks.

I'm not anti-lesbian or anything, but it shows a game that is written catered to males. I think the armor is crafted perfectly for males and females. I have no complaints there.

wraith808 · August 2015

paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »

Yes of the original five companions Lyris is the only female but she is a warrior. If she was the healer you might, slightly, have a point. I always thought the trailer reflected the faction leaders, hence the one female. When there are 3 people and only 2 sexes there is going to be an imbalance. This is not a big deal.

And my point has always been that Lyris has a self-confidence problem. She is very competent. Tharn sees that, and preys on it. Just as he preys on the others, but they ignore him. She is very competent- she was the bodyguard for Varen, and you couldn't be one of the bodyguards for the Emperor without being more than competent. She just has her own insecurities, as a layered character. Sai Sahan's is the fact that he could never unlock the Yokudan sword techniques, and his ancestors could- which means he's just not good enough. I also think that her intelligence is understated- she's just not on the level of Abnur Tharn who is a scholar and 164 years old! That's not, IMO, a weakness in her- I don't think that most people are supposed to be on his level. And then add in his inherent arrogance... and it's more of a weakness in him.

Zusia211 · August 2015

Serenstar75 wrote: »

The only thing I find annoying as a female in the game is how the storylines are created. NPCs are constantly asking my female character if she's interested in asking that other lady out or courting her. Other than maybe two males in the game, the female isn't really asked if she's interested in them. It doesn't matter if I'm male or female behind the screen, it'd just be nice if the stories actually had some trigger around what your PC is (male, female, vamp, ww, etc.) I'm tired of being hit on by chicks. I'm not anti-lesbian or anything, but it shows a game that is written catered to males. I think the armor is crafted perfectly for males and females. I have no complaints there.

What game are you playing? I haven't really noticed anyone "hitting" on my character outside of maybe a 2-3 characters....

MornaBaine · August 2015

Thanks for the reminder that both men and women are equally reactionary and love to create drama. I get such a kick out of all of you.

Serenstar75 · August 2015

WalkingNorth wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

The issue of character customization, which is huge with all players but I might argue is ESPECIALLY dear to female players as a general (though not ironclad) rule continues to be largely ignored. Ditto player housing. Female players often want a more immersive world, which means there needs to be more to it than JUST killing things (as much fun as that is!) but this, like every other MMO on the market, is almost the sole focus.
SNIP
So what I'm saying is that your devs need to start giving some serious thought to what female gamers might like to have instead of just trying to knock off what has traditionally already "sold" and just doing it with better graphics. We womenfolk are demanding. We want more. And we're happy to pay for it when you make us happy.

wow - I've managed to lurk on the forum for a year and a half without feeling the need to post...but I am simply astonished at this generalization. I am a female player in an all female guild, and the things you mention are nowhere near the top of the our priorities. What do we want? A lot of the same things are guy friends want: reduction to lag in pvp. Additional pve zones and more vet dungeons. Better grind spots and improved drop rates on perfect roe

Yep, I really just want to kill stuff. I want to kill stuff really well. I don't need player housing (my guy wants that more than I do) and I don't need better looking gear. I have found that character customization in this game has been awesome. I like what I have. I love the dye colors I have to play with. The graphics have kept me happy with creepy critters. I want less gushy story between Lily whatsherface and Sai Sahan (I'm with Tharn there, puke :P ) and I want cooler places to kill stuff (the dungeons.) I have yet to find perfect roe! One of these days. I want story triggers that recognize what you are, like in the single player games. That's all.

wraith808 · August 2015

Violynne wrote: »

I wish I can take my "awesome" click back. Context was everything in the OP and I misread it now that she followed up.

You can click your vote again, and it takes it away.

EDIT: Sorry... should have read. you have many responses already.

OneWhomWaits · August 2015

The generalizations are so weird.

More cat mounts and pets? yuck. I'll take a pass on that. If I want armor that exposes some skin I can craft it. We do have options there.

I can't for a second believe the gamer split is anywhere near 50/50. Girls are usually Guys In Real Life - the ones I run into anyways. There are women, but I feel like we are closer to 10-20% of our world.

Most folks have no idea I am a girl. I do not use my mic. I tried that a few times and the response was vulgar, childish, and just unwanted.

I just want to play the game and have fun. Not watch you do pushups to dry hump another naked player on the ground.

Minno · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

That despite the increase numbers of female gamers, the male numbers still dominate. With that comes gender specific issues that sometimes get ignored or forgotten about.

Nothing negative; its nice to see this post to remind us not everyone's white, straight, and a male while playing games.
Makes the community think twice about the games it makes or plays.

Also less armor showing boob shapes.

http://io9.com/why-boob-plate-armor-would-actually-kill-you-496925522

Kuroinu · August 2015

WalkingNorth wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

The issue of character customization, which is huge with all players but I might argue is ESPECIALLY dear to female players as a general (though not ironclad) rule continues to be largely ignored. Ditto player housing. Female players often want a more immersive world, which means there needs to be more to it than JUST killing things (as much fun as that is!) but this, like every other MMO on the market, is almost the sole focus.
SNIP
So what I'm saying is that your devs need to start giving some serious thought to what female gamers might like to have instead of just trying to knock off what has traditionally already "sold" and just doing it with better graphics. We womenfolk are demanding. We want more. And we're happy to pay for it when you make us happy.

wow - I've managed to lurk on the forum for a year and a half without feeling the need to post...but I am simply astonished at this generalization. I am a female player in an all female guild, and the things you mention are nowhere near the top of the our priorities. What do we want? A lot of the same things are guy friends want: reduction to lag in pvp. Additional pve zones and more vet dungeons. Better grind spots and improved drop rates on perfect roe

Seriously, OP, feel free to ask for game elements that are important to you. But don't make it about being a female gamer, and don't make it about being "especially dear" to them. We womenfolk may be demanding, and are willing to pay for what makes us happy, but no more than our male friends.

Clicking agree to WalkingNorth's post wasn't enough for me, so I had to quote it!

Everyone should read and understand this.

Psychobunni · August 2015

It's all open to interpretation of the player in question. I do what a more feminine touch on armors, and agree the changes they made to those already in game are atrocious. I love Bosmer because its the only one I can see my tattoos in semi nicely.

I don't know if the design team has a female on it or not, but it needs one, or more than one if there already is. (plz don't tell me thats "feminist", I won't wear 99.9% of what my husband picks either) The wedding dress and the other one that's basically a reskin, just grew my bewbs and made me fat. Even if I could customize them, ugh...I wouldnt wear them.

And Lyris..yeah I hate her. She has "daddy issues" *eye-roll*, but she is still better than Queen Inept

Anyway, yes there are lots of women playing ESO, but I don't think ESO has done a "bad" job representing them. Just like everything else, we need more options and those take time.

wraith808 · August 2015

Minno wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

That despite the increase numbers of female gamers, the male numbers still dominate. With that comes gender specific issues that sometimes get ignored or forgotten about.

Nothing negative; its nice to see this post to remind us not everyone's white, straight, and a male while playing games.
Makes the community think twice about the games it makes or plays.

Also less armor showing boob shapes.

http://io9.com/why-boob-plate-armor-would-actually-kill-you-496925522

But... they already have. I think that's the point, and the reason for the clarification. Because ZOS is good about listening, and ESO is good about representations.

Off the top of my head:

1. Two older married men that seem to have a healthy stable relationship. One asks as his husband (and they do say husband- not partner) is dying for the PC to gather flowers to celebrate their life.
2. A woman is concerned for her wife that got caught up during a mutiny and is in danger. She would go, as she's captain of a privateer vessel, but she's hurt.
3. An Altmer and a Khaijit are married and she loves him- but he has a problem. Truly interracial marriage LOL
4. The great let's get rid of sexy armor changes.

And these are ones just off the top of my head. And they are (with exception of the final one) not made a big deal about, nor does it affect the plot. It's not the token inclusion- it's the removal of the barriers that exclude. They're just normal.

That's pretty awesome. And it's so seamlessly integrated- along with strong characters of all sorts throughout- that we don't even think to praise them for it. And I think that's the largest bit of praise that can be leveled for it- that it just seems normal.

Minno · August 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Not trying to be inflammatory, but is there something specific this comment is supposed to address?

That despite the increase numbers of female gamers, the male numbers still dominate. With that comes gender specific issues that sometimes get ignored or forgotten about.

Nothing negative; its nice to see this post to remind us not everyone's white, straight, and a male while playing games.
Makes the community think twice about the games it makes or plays.

Also less armor showing boob shapes.

http://io9.com/why-boob-plate-armor-would-actually-kill-you-496925522

But... they already have. I think that's the point, and the reason for the clarification. Because ZOS is good about listening, and ESO is good about representations.

Off the top of my head:

1. Two older married men that seem to have a healthy stable relationship. One asks as his husband (and they do say husband- not partner) is dying for the PC to gather flowers to celebrate their life.
2. A woman is concerned for her wife that got caught up during a mutiny and is in danger. She would go, as she's captain of a privateer vessel, but she's hurt.
3. An Altmer and a Khaijit are married and she loves him- but he has a problem. Truly interracial marriage LOL
4. The great let's get rid of sexy armor changes.

And these are ones just off the top of my head. And they are (with exception of the final one) not made a big deal about, nor does it affect the plot. It's not the token inclusion- it's the removal of the barriers that exclude. They're just normal.

That's pretty awesome. And it's so seamlessly integrated- along with strong characters of all sorts throughout- that we don't even think to praise them for it. And I think that's the largest bit of praise that can be leveled for it- that it just seems normal.

Oh my comment was generic and not ESO specific. They did a great job integrating tons of social issues and making it feel natural (as it should be). Except the boob armor because of the argument on the structural integrity of all those concave convex shapes in relation to a blade hitting it

Personofsecrets · August 2015

Statistics are useless without knowing how the statistic was actually achieved.

Let's pretend though that @ZOS_RichLambert used their statistics group to gather data on all of the people that play ESO and discovered that 50% identify as female. So what?

@MornaBaine , are you implying that ESO currently isn't cosmopolitan in how it caters to different types of players? Are you implying that all genders of people can't enjoy the same content? Remember, sexism is a two way street.

The only discrimination I've seen in this games development is against tanks.

wraith808 · August 2015

Psychobunni wrote: »

And Lyris..yeah I hate her. She has "daddy issues" *eye-roll*, but she is still better than Queen Inept

I don't get that. I thought both of them were strong characters, and strong leaders. Guys have "daddy issues" all the time- trying to live up to them, getting beat up by them to make them "strong", not being able to relate to them for many of the same reasons that Lyris' father couldn't.

MaximumAttackG · August 2015

The thing I find funny is most people arent surprised females play games, its that females think they are unique in doing so and and believe people are shocked to see them in mmos, the reality is noone cares except the virgins who flock to girl gamers in elden root as if they are celebrities giving out autographs, its pathetic really.

Jahosefat · August 2015

My gf loves ESO. It actually was the first game she got really into. She had dabbled with a few games before (lol Oregon trail as a kid and such, played a little wow but was never that into it especially pvp). Since playing ESO (and falling in love with it) she has really gotten into gaming in general; first thing she usually does after getting home from work now is "hey, wanna play [X] game with me??". It's great, would have never guessed this would be the case ~2 years ago.

She moved in with me ~1.5 years ago, and it just so happened to be a beta weekend for ESO where we could invite others. Despite the bugged quests and the crappy computer she was playing on (her choice) we had a great time together and she was hooked. Have been gaming together regularly ever since

I was actually quite surprised how much she liked ESO (we've known each other for ~10 years so she had seen me play oblivion and things like that before) so we've talked at length about what was different about her experience with ESO vs. other games like WoW.

1.) Voice acting. She felt the story and quests were a lot more entertaining and interesting because of this; she listens to every voice acting sequence to completion and loves it. She says its like watching an interactive movie.
2.) Quests. She felt the quests were generally more fun/interesting/varied than what she had experienced before. She laughed, she cried, she gave death cries. A major reason she enjoyed the game initially.
3.) Crafting. She just loved the crafting system in this game. Especially making armor and weapons. There have been some nights where she literally spent the whole night planning what her next set of armor was going to be; not because she had leveled up or anything, she just found it endlessly enjoyable to mix and match the different armor styles (and sets, but mostly just the styles

). I'll throw the die system in here too, she has probably spent just as much time playing around with all the different colors she has and trying to get new colors. She loved all of it.
4.) Character Creation. She was blown away by the variety available in character creation. And she loved the khajits (self-proclaimed future cat lady). She literally spent a couple of hours making her main character, and loved it.
5.) PvP. This was another shocker for me. Prior to playing ESO she had expressed no desire to engage in player-vs-player video game pew-pew of any kind; she actually had quite a distaste for it after playing around with wow pvp. ESO pvp radically altered her perception of pvp and it eventually became her favorite activity in ESO. Now we partake in pvp activities in a few different games and its great. It's like having a LAN party with my gf every night

She said what made ESO pvp so much better for her was the targeting and skill system; she hated the older-style tab targeting and felt managing a large number of cool-downs was no fun. Soft-targeting and resource based combat made PvP action a lot more fluid and intuitive for her. (I love pvp btw, generally what I look for in games).
6.) General Beauty of the Game/Environments. Just something she always mentions and was a big motivator for her to explore the game. Whenever we are out in a zone doing something she'll randomly stop us for a screenshot; I think it is really cute (and similar to how she takes pictures in real life!).

Of course this is only an anecdote of one adult woman's experience with ESO, and everyone will enjoy the game differently. I just wanted to point out where at least my gf felt ESO was doing things well and why her experience with ESO was so much better than other games she had tried to play.

All-in-all I have to give a big thanks to ZOS, I don't think I would have been able to share one of my favorite past-times with my lovely gf had it not been for them and their wonderful game ESO

Lightninvash · August 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

Thanks for the reminder that both men and women are equally reactionary and love to create drama. I get such a kick out of all of you.

this response implies were dealing with a high school girl watch out everyone tiny people are invading and not just the bosmer!!!!

Psychobunni · August 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

And Lyris..yeah I hate her. She has "daddy issues" *eye-roll*, but she is still better than Queen Inept

I don't get that. I thought both of them were strong characters, and strong leaders. Guys have "daddy issues" all the time- trying to live up to them, getting beat up by them to make them "strong", not being able to relate to them for many of the same reasons that Lyris' father couldn't.

You know what? You are right. I never thought about that aspect. It's very much Legolas and Thranduil in a lot of ways. Shame on *me*. Damn.

All I thought about was "mmhmm that girl got daddy issues" stereotypical nonsense, I didn't think about the father/son aspect (I'm female).

Thank-you for pointing out the obvious I was ignoring

AbraXuSeXile · August 2015

My hardcore pvp guild is 60:40 men to women id say, back when i started mmos there was hardly any females about.

wraith808 · August 2015

Psychobunni wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

And Lyris..yeah I hate her. She has "daddy issues" *eye-roll*, but she is still better than Queen Inept

I don't get that. I thought both of them were strong characters, and strong leaders. Guys have "daddy issues" all the time- trying to live up to them, getting beat up by them to make them "strong", not being able to relate to them for many of the same reasons that Lyris' father couldn't.

You know what? You are right. I never thought about that aspect. It's very much Legolas and Thranduil in a lot of ways. Shame on *me*. Damn.

All I thought about was "mmhmm that girl got daddy issues" stereotypical nonsense, I didn't think about the father/son aspect (I'm female).

Thank-you for pointing out the obvious I was ignoring

No problem and thanks for the response! I wasn't necessarily trying to say you were wrong... I'd just seen that a few times. I really enjoy conversations like this- reasoned, and both sides able to take something away from it.

Thanks to you!

Huckdabuck · August 2015

All y'all got trolled!

Molag_Crow · August 2015

I guess you're trying to say that ZOS should focus on some more female clothing?

I've played mmos and stuff for a very long time now so I definitely understand this article, and I know how it used to be on games like WoW where a lot of genuine female gamers would even play male characters just to avoid all the attention from the so-called desperate virgins, and I don't mean that as an insult -- I used to get excited around female gamers back on WoW all the time... but since I've grown up now (including mentally, and consciously) I'm no longer like that.

If I see a female gamer, I will not pay them any extra attention just because of their gender, nope... Same goes for male gamers, because I respect all and when it really comes down to it anyway, gender does not define who we truly are (if you know your stuff and have done your research.) Energy is energy, a biological body with a specific gender is merely a vehicle for consciousness to experience the 3rd density -- so people who believe a certain gender is more superior than the other, are either too young to understand, have been programmed by sick, typical society or in worse cases; they have chronically-imbalanced hemispheres, but lets not get into all of that now, this is game forum after all.

In most cases, both are just as bad as each other. I had a girl gamer who added me the other month, purely just to ask for in-game gold and epic motifs, a few times actually... before silently vanishing into oblivion.

So! lets enjoy the game for what it is; a great game in my opinion, and try not to get caught up in gender-drama.

Rosveen · August 2015

Huckdabuck wrote: »

All y'all got trolled!

I thought Morna was above this kind of foolishness. Oh well. It was still nice to see the community band together so unanimously.

SirAndy · August 2015

...

eventide03b14a_ESO · August 2015

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQSJef3mtrQfZLYjfjAdqCeqfcKTpv0J7Q0JBgyAnCjo26x0nbF

crashen17b14_ESO · August 2015

Honestly I always thought Lyris was a big middle finger to the stereotyptical female trope in fantasy. She's big. Like, bigger than even regular players (with the exception of the freakishly tall altmer.) She's bigger than even nords. And not in a fatty or monstrous way. She's just physically larger. SHE rescues YOU the first time you meet her, and she IS confident, in her own way. She is sort of self-conscious, but in her Coldharbour quest, we see why she is so self-conscious, despite being the best of the best of the best (or else she wouldn't be bodyguard to the Emperor).

Yeah, she has daddy issues, because her daddy was, gasp, a complicated man. He didn't treat her like a pretty pretty little princess for a reason that, while not right, does seem natural. He saw his wife in her, and he felt guilt for leading to her death (since apparently he had giant blood in him too, even though he was like... half Lyris' height.) But the thing is... they found catharsis. Lyris' daddy issues were resolved when they actually were able to address them and talk to each other.

Yeah, she is self conscious about her size (like most people, men and women alike). But we see why. She is treated like crap by small-minded men who were threatened by the fact that she was a physical powerhouse. But what happens when she stands up to them, even with the player's help? She kicks their asses and realizes that they are wrong.

Yeah, Tharn picks on her more than the rest (the rest being... Sai Sahan, because Tharn sure ain't going to argue with The Prophet.) But Tharn is an insufferably arrogant toolbag who would have probably picked on Sai just as much if we had rescued him first instead of Lyris. In fact, Sai is more affected by Tharn's jibes than Lyris is, since Tharn is one of Sai's torturer's (metaphysically speaking) in his prison. Lyris tends to give as good as she gets with Tharn, even slugging him at one point, and several times shutting him up so well that he's speechless.

In fact, by the end of the main quest, I feel like Tharn developed a (grudging) respect for Lyris and Sai, even though he's too much of a jerk to really show it.

Beyond all that, Lyris ISN'T a stereotypical model=quality 'beauty'. She has a sort of plain face, and looks more like... a regular normal person. Neither ugly nor strikingly beautiful. That was one of the first things I noticed about her, and thought that was pretty neat. She looked like... a person. And not a barbie doll.

In writing this post up, and thinking about it more, I actually think Lyris is one of the best developed characters in gaming history. She demonstrates real, actual growth, her flaws are human and relate-able regardless of gender, and she actually seems like someone you could look up to. All of this done without a sense of pandering or "everyone is special!" after-school message feel. She grows from a competent, but not confident character, with a difficult childhood (who hasn't had one of those?), issues with her body image (just as often as women feel like they are too big, men feel like they aren't big or strong enough), and who is frequently underestimated by her peers (ain't that the damn truth), to a character who is confident, but not cocky, comfortable with their body shape, found catharsis with their past and shut the haters up, while earning the respect of the people who's opinion matters.

And all of these things were accomplished in ways that the regular person can relate to and understand. Have a bad relationship with a parent? Talk to them as an adult, see if you can find out what went wrong. Don't feel good about how you look? Find the positives, rely on yourself, and confront the *** who have a problem with it, and realize they are just petty idiots. People underestimate you and think you aren't smart/clever/good enough? Prove them wrong. Also, maybe pop them right in the nose. Well, probably not that part.

All of this was dealt with to the backdrop of a crazy fantastical planemeld apocalypse, but the true journey for Lyris, like for most people, was more about coming to terms with yourself.

pepperybrine · August 2015

I only know a few female gamers, the only game they play is minecraft

Acrolas · August 2015

When the Entertainment Software Association comes out with a bunch of skewed statistics about ESO, then maybe there will be something interesting to talk about.

Or not.

"Women over 18 made up a whopping 36 percent of the gaming population, followed by adult men at 35 percent."

omg women have a one percent advantage over men it's like the whole CP debate all over again. game is broken. abandon ship. helly kitty island adventure here i come.