The Mad God's Lame Bargan

ContraTempo · August 2015

If you have not completed the Mage's Guild quests, this will be a spoiler. If you are good with that, then read on.

So you have your choice of either getting a book worth 2 whole skill points (maybe 30 minutes work to just go find some skyshards instead) or saving Valaste (she says thank you really, really sincerely).

Seriously? If you want to create a moral dilemma you are going to have to do a lot better than that. So what should be in the Folium Discognitum to really tempt players, and what should be the alternative?

I say the Folium needs to contain something valuable and unique, like a whole skill tree you can't get anywhere else. Or knowledge of how to create a powerful potion.

So, what is for offer on the other side? Perhaps having Valaste as your friend. Friend as in, she will go on a limited number of quests with you. Perhaps she should have already gone with you on a quest or two and have said that she would like to keep accompanying you. Or maybe she will marry you with similar benefits to those you get in Skyrim, in which case the romance should already be in progress by the time you have to decide. Then if you save her she could make a nice speech about how books are not the only thing she loves.

These are just a few possibilities so don't get too hung up on them. The point both sides should give you something really tempting and UNIQUE, not anything you can buy in the crown store or find in other quests.

So what do you think Sheogorath should offer, and what should you get if you turn him down?

Draxys · August 2015

lol "a whole skill tree"

Qyrk · August 2015

uh these two skill points are MORE than worth a 30 minutes finding skydhards . These are extra skill points that can NEVER be obtained anywhere else, therefore the value of it is so much more. For veterans that are Jack of all trades, these 2 skill points helps a TON (especially if you're a tank , a dps and a healer, along with MASTER crafter, Legerdemain and/or vampire/werewolf

ontheleftcoast · August 2015

What?! A quest that radically alters the way the rest of the game is played? How dare you! That's not the Elder Scrolls Way! Quests have to be vanilla, cookie cutter, and offer no real upside or downside or they'll be abused or complained about endlessly! Why you can complete the entire freaking game thru Cadwell's Gold and get a useless blue piece of vendor trash! And you better say "Thank you very much" that you even got that. What did you expect a purple item? Or -- gasp -- a gold item? For completing a multi day quest named "Gold"? That's crazy talk!

UltimaJoe777 · August 2015

Sheogoroth: You know I would offer you a new Skill Line as a reward but Hermaeus Mora told me that would not be wise so sorry not gonna! Now if you'll excuse me I have some cheese to eat.

BRogueNZ · August 2015

Both options should reward you with the opportunity to kick him in the nuts

Kozer · August 2015

How about a spoiler alert?! Jesus!

Mojmir · August 2015

Unlimited supply of cheese

ontheleftcoast · August 2015

Mojmir wrote: »

Unlimited supply of cheese

But it couldn't be cheese that you can use in a recipe. No, it should be some of that super stinky cheese that you had to steal from the cheese shop in Oblivion when you were doing Sheogorath's quest. Ooh, and we could have Cadwell deliver it while saying the cheese "came from the cleanest shop in the district, there's absolutely no cheese contaminating the place."

ContraTempo · August 2015

Kozer wrote: »

How about a spoiler alert?! Jesus!

You mean like this:

If you have not completed the Mage's Guild quests, this will be a spoiler. If you are good with that, then read on.

Followed by the big blue tag that says "Spoiler"?

Hamrb · August 2015

Think about what Valaste gets if you read the book. She'll be happy for the rest of her life. plenty of skeevers, cabbage, cheese, and butterflies for her. 8 toons sent her to the shivering isles for me. the book was a bonus for doing the right thing. Uncle Sheo is my hero.

Haxnschwammer · August 2015

Back in the days (in early beta)
when Level 50 was maximum
and there were no Vet levels
and no Cadwells silver or gold
when you had your alliance and that was it
you had only a third of the skyshards you have now.

So not 300 skillpoints but like 130. At that time when that quest was designed skillpoints were more valuable and the dilemma was actually there.

KiraTsukasa · August 2015

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

What?! A quest that radically alters the way the rest of the game is played? How dare you! That's not the Elder Scrolls Way! Quests have to be vanilla, cookie cutter, and offer no real upside or downside or they'll be abused or complained about endlessly! Why you can complete the entire freaking game thru Cadwell's Gold and get a useless blue piece of vendor trash! And you better say "Thank you very much" that you even got that. What did you expect a purple item? Or -- gasp -- a gold item? For completing a multi day quest named "Gold"? That's crazy talk!

Are two skill points REALLY that much of a game changer?

Honestly, I don't see myself using even all of the 325 other ones.

Haxnschwammer · August 2015

Not to mention the skill book exploit where you could finish the quest, take the book and use it with another char.
Stack up on skill books. This was fixed quite early.

Kuroinu · August 2015

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

What?! A quest that radically alters the way the rest of the game is played? How dare you! That's not the Elder Scrolls Way! Quests have to be vanilla, cookie cutter, and offer no real upside or downside or they'll be abused or complained about endlessly! Why you can complete the entire freaking game thru Cadwell's Gold and get a useless blue piece of vendor trash! And you better say "Thank you very much" that you even got that. What did you expect a purple item? Or -- gasp -- a gold item? For completing a multi day quest named "Gold"? That's crazy talk!

Are two skill points REALLY that much of a game changer?

Honestly, I don't see myself using even all of the 325 other ones.

Yeah, it's not a big deal when you can fulfill all your build needs later on. But, I wish

Valaste

had some sort of bonus though, like a giving you a temporary buff, an emote or something, anything lol. Even a cheese trophy.

Vegaroth · August 2015

2 skill points are more than she is worth.... so the offer is more than enougth to agree with uncle Sheo.

Malediktus · August 2015

I would have traded Valaste for 1 Skyshard instead of 6. I am glad Sheogorath took her of my hands.

Rosveen · August 2015

If the choice offered anything as substantial as a unique skill line, it would be no choice at all. Everyone except the most hardcore roleplayers would be forced to choose the skill line. I prefer it the way it is: a tempting reward, but not game-breaking if I forfeit it. Most people still chose skill points, so imo the reward is good enough.

And for the love of all that's holy, no romance as a *** quest reward. That's not a reward, it's a punishment for many of us and also utterly useless because ESO doesn't have a hireling system or player housing.

Psychobunni · August 2015

@Rosveen nailed it. Too good an offer towards game play and it no longer becomes a choice.

As it stands, it is quite realistic imo. You can make the moral choice and gain nothing but the knowledge of having done right.

Or make the instant self gratification choice that eventually turns out to be worthless, but your soul is sold to bad karma

Ofc, most at this choice point don't have their soul back yet, but it's still basically a moral decision.

Kuroinu · August 2015

If I'm ever short on skill points I know who to blame, and I like having this blame option.

GDI Valaste!

Twilix01 · August 2015

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

Back in the days (in early beta)
when Level 50 was maximum
and there were no Vet levels
and no Cadwells silver or gold
when you had your alliance and that was it
you had only a third of the skyshards you have now.

So not 300 skillpoints but like 130. At that time when that quest was designed skillpoints were more valuable and the dilemma was actually there.

Uh, pretty sure vet ranks existed at launch, along with cadwell's silver and gold...

Rosveen · August 2015

Twilix01 wrote: »

Haxnschwammer wrote: »

Back in the days (in early beta)
when Level 50 was maximum
and there were no Vet levels
and no Cadwells silver or gold
when you had your alliance and that was it
you had only a third of the skyshards you have now.

So not 300 skillpoints but like 130. At that time when that quest was designed skillpoints were more valuable and the dilemma was actually there.

Uh, pretty sure vet ranks existed at launch, along with cadwell's silver and gold...

They did. He was talking about early beta.

Rikal · August 2015

One of the most interesting things about ESO IMO is this decision. How it shows the diversity of the player base, the characters they develop, and how immersed they are in them. There is a full spectrum of response from "of course you save Valaste no matter what" to "of course you take the reward no matter what". Adding some tangible reward (no matter how small) to the choice of saving Valaste chops off one end of the spectrum and makes it far less interesting.

I'd love to see some actual data on how many times each choice is taken. My guess is that 2 skill points is enough reward for plenty of characters to choose the book. Maybe enough for a majority to choose the book.

ChibiMechaX78 · August 2015

Mojmir wrote: »

Unlimited supply of cheese

All that cheese, and no complaints of constipation....

A Daedric Prince's bowels are a supernatural wonder.

willymchilybily · August 2015

The affore mentioned NPC seemed happy to go see the butterflys, and ignorance is bliss they say, so evil dunmer character got 2SP which at that stage in the game was Amazingly helpful.

Kind heart love-able rogue Khajitt decided not to bargain with the mad god Sheograth and saved said NPC to be rewarded with a very nice unique staff...that he couldn't use very well being stamina/rogue...a decision he regrets to this day...at least he could chose his prismatic weapon with the fighters guild. silly inflexible magicians.

if anything I would change the later reward. but then again i wouldn't, its a mage guild quest reward so it makes sense... plus there is too many goody two shoes in tamriel as it is, don't reward their whiter than white attitude...let them suffer.

whyB · August 2015

I personally thought this was a very big dilemma.

ContraTempo · August 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

If the choice offered anything as substantial as a unique skill line, it would be no choice at all. Everyone except the most hardcore roleplayers would be forced to choose the skill line. I prefer it the way it is: a tempting reward, but not game-breaking if I forfeit it. Most people still chose skill points, so imo the reward is good enough.

My point was not to make it more lopsided, it was that BOTH choices should get you something unique and valuable. My example was just a starting idea; other suggestions are welcome (and kinda the point). Maybe a single skill you can't otherwise get -- one from Sheo in Soul Magic, one from the Mages Guild in their skill line. But I really like the idea of Valaste being connected with the reward for saving her, something you could not get or use if she was gone.

CIPHERSTONE · August 2015

I let her go with Sheg. In my view it was the kinder choice. For one, I think Shalodor is a d*ck. he worked her to the bone and I am sure would do it again at the drop of a hat. Would I have preferred to see Shalidor turned into a slug? Absolutely. Maybe Sheg went this route to teach Shally a lesson. I felt a real kinship with Sheg. I plan on staying in touch with him and sampling cheese often.

Yggdrasil_Gof · September 2015

Surly the main reason for the quest is to enjoy it as a quest regardless of gifts, buffs, or skill lines. I do take your point, but if your going to complain about this reward then you'll have to complain about most of them. Very few of the rewards are that good. I did find it a bit of a dilemma and decided to save her. She seemed just as happy to lose her madness.

I don't know if you get this reward if you don't save her, but I was given a book of memories that allows me to remember every book I have and will ever read, including journals, notes and scraps of paper. This effectively makes every book I have and will read a lore book adding xp to your mages guild, skill line, and expanding the lore book list in your menu to every book in the game for those that might have the inclination to actually read them.
This seems a better reward than 2 skill points to me. This seems like a pretty good reward for doing the right thing to me.

KimberlyannKitsuragi · July 2016

Yggdrasil_Gof wrote: »

I don't know if you get this reward if you don't save her, but I was given a book of memories that allows me to remember every book I have and will ever read, including journals, notes and scraps of paper. This effectively makes every book I have and will read a lore book adding xp to your mages guild, skill line, and expanding the lore book list in your menu to every book in the game for those that might have the inclination to actually read them.
This seems a better reward than 2 skill points to me. This seems like a pretty good reward for doing the right thing to me.

I believe you get the eidetic memory regardless. Same with the skill points