Tandor wrote: »

supernico wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

No. It's been discussed a thousand times.

All that would foster is everyone changing races every time Zenimax makes a change so they can keep the FotM.

uhm.. and your point is?

His point is firstly that this is an old topic that has been done to death already, and secondly that he's against it because it would lead to players wanting to change their race every time ZOS made a change to racial skills.

He's right on both counts.

And if this is in the Crown Store and marketable, how is it a bad thing for us or ZOS? Things that people buy over and over again are exactly what they should put in the Crown Store.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The people in this thread saying no to this idea are using the following logic.

<List of generalizations and misrepresentations>

- Every Selfish PvE'er/Lorebear everywhere.

Ooh ooh ooh, I can play this game too! What fun!

1. I only picked my race because I liked the numbers.
2. Yes other races have significant contributions in terms of lore/immersion/atmosphere but I’m an awesome PvP/Raid/Endgame PvE’r.
3. Just because I want to chase the FOTM build everyone should be subject to the same min/maxing requirements whenever they undertake actions that involve other people.
4. But I hate my race now, as opposed to yesterday, because the numbers have changed… and other people now have better numbers and since this game is all about the numbers the numbers are what is most important!
5. I don’t care if players who choose not to change can’t get invited to groups because they are the “wrong” race.

-Every shortsighted self-absorbed PvP’er/Raider/Endgame PvE’er everywhere.

...

Now, was either of those posts particularly useful in terms of the costs or benefits of including race change functionality either as a one-shot or in the crown store? I doubt it.

So why don't we quit constructing strawmen and get back to the actual impact (positive or negative) that this might have, eh?

Since when is changing your stats, however minor, a convenience?

I really want(need) the racial swap. I know some of you are against it, but this isn't what I wanted when the game came out. It's really a bummer for me now, I really do not enjoy this since it's my only character. Now I'm pretty much 'forced' to change the way I play to keep up with end game numbers. (From mage to stam build)

Was running a Redguard DK mage in PvP mostly, which was pretty fine actually. Didn't boost mag or anything that would help a mage, not PvE nor PvP. Since I could softcap mag, spell dmg, spell res and mag regen the stamina boosts weren't that bad actually. Not better than any mag race, but the difference wasn't that huge.

Now it's all about min/max if you want to keep up the high numbers. And yeah, I don't have to change, but for example. Dunmer DK mage in comparison with Redguard DK mage:
8-12% more damage with fire (which a mage DK is all about)(source TF)
9% more mag (which contributes to the 8-12% dmg)
More Fire Resistance
4% less stamina (ugh common it's a Redguard vs a Dunmer, and we're talking about a mage here)
9% less stam regen (not useful for mage at all, thanks for the extra 45 stamina (or 4.5 stam in 1.5) every 2s which I don't need)
Redguard has stam return on melee hit (yeah, really useful for a mage with no melee hits -_- only positive thing I see is you have 3 extra skillpoints to spend elsewhere)
There is just nothing that a mage DK benefits from being a Redguard.

So Dunmer DK mage vs Redguard DK mage? Obvious (unless Redguard goes stam, but it's not cool to be forced in that to keep up)

So basically, because of removal softcaps, the differences are huuuge. Any Redguard mage is really getting screwed over hard. Been screwing around a lot in PTS and now on live, I just don't like it. It's frustrating. Rerolling? No, I want to keep this character, there is a reason why I only have one since launch with +1500h. Plus all the wasted time I could have spend in gaining CP would give me another disadvantage.

I get people are against it, but in these cases, where it's someones only character since launch, it really is a stab in the back. I could just not care, but I do. I'd like to keep up, which should be normal. In 1.5 it also made a difference but not that significant.

Many people say that it's ridiculous to give a race swap everytime they change the game, I get it, but yeah actually they should. Especially now, I chose Redguard for RP because it wasn't going to be that much of an advantage. And now, 10 months later I'm in a big disadvantage. Common, really? So I know, a lot of people don't need it or want it, but some of us really do need it. It just wouldn't be fair. Why do I feel like that? Because I'm in this situation, why most people use this argument? Because most are not in this situation.

Just sell it in the Crown Store, pricey or not. I'm willing to pay, which is interesting for ZoS and thus us. I think that's a fair deal, to not give it away but have the option. If it's costly enough, then only people who really need it, will undergo the racial swap. I don't see why people are against it.

Please ZoS, all the Redguard Mages are begging you. And sorry for the long post, just had to get it out of the system.

Put it in the Crown Store... charge $30 bucks for it.

Skiserony wrote: »

I really want(need) the racial swap. I know some of you are against it, but this isn't what I wanted when the game came out. It's really a bummer for me now, I really do not enjoy this since it's my only character. Now I'm pretty much 'forced' to change the way I play to keep up with end game numbers. (From mage to stam build)

Was running a Redguard DK mage in PvP mostly, which was pretty fine actually. Didn't boost mag or anything that would help a mage, not PvE nor PvP. Since I could softcap mag, spell dmg, spell res and mag regen the stamina boosts weren't that bad actually. Not better than any mag race, but the difference wasn't that huge.

Now it's all about min/max if you want to keep up the high numbers. And yeah, I don't have to change, but for example. Dunmer DK mage in comparison with Redguard DK mage:
8-12% more damage with fire (which a mage DK is all about)(source TF)
9% more mag (which contributes to the 8-12% dmg)
More Fire Resistance
4% less stamina (ugh common it's a Redguard vs a Dunmer, and we're talking about a mage here)
9% less stam regen (not useful for mage at all, thanks for the extra 45 stamina (or 4.5 stam in 1.5) every 2s which I don't need)
Redguard has stam return on melee hit (yeah, really useful for a mage with no melee hits -_- only positive thing I see is you have 3 extra skillpoints to spend elsewhere)
There is just nothing that a mage DK benefits from being a Redguard.

So Dunmer DK mage vs Redguard DK mage? Obvious (unless Redguard goes stam, but it's not cool to be forced in that to keep up)

So basically, because of removal softcaps, the differences are huuuge. Any Redguard mage is really getting screwed over hard. Been screwing around a lot in PTS and now on live, I just don't like it. It's frustrating. Rerolling? No, I want to keep this character, there is a reason why I only have one since launch with +1500h. Plus all the wasted time I could have spend in gaining CP would give me another disadvantage.

I get people are against it, but in these cases, where it's someones only character since launch, it really is a stab in the back. I could just not care, but I do. I'd like to keep up, which should be normal. In 1.5 it also made a difference but not that significant.

Many people say that it's ridiculous to give a race swap everytime they change the game, I get it, but yeah actually they should. Especially now, I chose Redguard for RP because it wasn't going to be that much of an advantage. And now, 10 months later I'm in a big disadvantage. Common, really? So I know, a lot of people don't need it or want it, but some of us really do need it. It just wouldn't be fair. Why do I feel like that? Because I'm in this situation, why most people use this argument? Because most are not in this situation.

Just sell it in the Crown Store, pricey or not. I'm willing to pay, which is interesting for ZoS and thus us. I think that's a fair deal, to not give it away but have the option. If it's costly enough, then only people who really need it, will undergo the racial swap. I don't see why people are against it.

Please ZoS, all the Redguard Mages are begging you. And sorry for the long post, just had to get it out of the system.

The only silly thing here is that Redguard mages were able to compete with Dunmer mages in the first place.

When you take the racial bonuses at face value and even prior to 1.6, Redguard was very clearly a choice for melee / stamina orientated builds. In my opinion, all's Z have done is reinforce the race-build distinctions with the removal of soft-caps. So now the difference is much more pronounced.

In Elder Scrolls lore, Redguards are a warrior people, famed for their skill in combat - not for their mastery of magicka. I know there are exceptions, but they are what they are: exceptions. So to reiterate my earlier point, the only silly thing is that redguards were able to more-or-less keep up with magicka orientated races, given the situation with the racial passives.

If people were arguing for a reduction in the strength of racial passives, rather than race changes, I suspect there would be a lot more support on this forum.

Spangla wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

No. It's been discussed a thousand times.

All that would foster is everyone changing races every time Zenimax makes a change so they can keep the FotM.

Why should I not be able to change race when the reasons I chose race/class have been changed dramatically in a patch barely half of users imo think is a good idea~?

Reroll is not an option for anyone who has a life unfortunately so please don't say that or it will cement my opinion of you

I have to support this. Really awful lot people say 'just reroll a new character', but that is not fair either. First of all, some have put over a thousand hours into their character, completed gold, chased titles, 10k achievements, high pvp rank, 290+ skillpoints, undaunted lvl 9!! (which is a pretty huge deal and takes a long time), endgame gear worth a fortune, ... Is it worth rerolling while you already have all of it but wont use it anymore because of a silly race skill line? No, I don't see why people should tell other to reroll, that's a personal choice too.

Second, for some it takes weeks-months to lvl up an alt to lvl50. That's not really encouraging. Plus all that time we have to put into lvling our character is wasted because it was time we could have put into earning CP, which is a pretty huge deal. So therefore rerolling is a pretty bad option and shouldn't be used as an argument against those who are a bit frustrated about this.Can be presented as a posibility though.

Ommamar wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Since when is changing your stats, however minor, a convenience?

So no food or drink in the crown store?

@Ommamar , oh, my bad... you want a potion.

In that case, I have no problem with you changing your race 45 seconds at a time.

Comparing a permanent change of stats to a temporary change of stats is hardly a valid argument.

Perhaps it would be nice for a one time only race change option since they have made significant changes to the mechanics of the game since launch.

Rather than free race change, I would then remove racial differences completely and make races a purely visual thing like costumes. I strongly oppose both those options.

I like the fact that races offer different perks and cater to different styles (largely according to the world's lore, even). Now, with the changes implemented in 1.6 and the complete change of the main advantages of a very few of the races (actually, only argonian), those that did choose this specific race should be allowed a one-off race change - because the premise of their racial choice has completely changed.

A general race change option, available always and unrestricted, is bollox and only "forces" to adhere to the FOTM, since there will be enough groups that require certain combinations. Yes, I can already hear the argument that "you don't need to play with those that do requires this", but most of us have made "friends" and will hesitate to just say "faugh all, I'm gone".

Redguards have always been stamina-oriented. Altmer have always been magicka-oriented. If their stats get tweaked, that is no reason for a change. "I was a Bosmer nightblade, but now Orsimer is better for this style, I want a race change" - this is what happens with a race change option. Imagine now that it will be a "convenience item" in the crown store with a price tag of... oh, let's take the 10k crowns mentioned above.

Commence hobby-lawyer threads. No, thank you.

TL/DR: Race change only in case of game-defining changes like argonian potion passive as a one-off free option. Not as a general option.

I am a console player very new to the builds, races and alliances compared to the long standing PC players so upon its release i started the game blind, in other words i knew very little about choosing certain races for a character style. I chose my Sorcerer and my race I picked Dark elf which as it happens isn't that bad but now I've read up on the game a bit more i know that High Elf was what i needed to pick and so i would like the opportunity to race re-roll simply because i can better my character.

It's an option available in other MMORPG games like Neverwinter and it's a huge success, i understand people will not like the idea but the fact remains hundreds of new players have chosen incompatible races for there characters and simply cannot function in veteran zones and PvP because despite the ability to respec skills, attributes and champion points the incorrect racial abilities are holding them back. These people deserve a chance to enjoy the game as much as other players the ones that chose the right race either by doing there homework on forums or luckily guessed correctly.

On a side note this thread has been bumped from March o_O

Why don't I recommend this, it's absurd from the Lore point of view, but quite a few people just want to change their race for aesthetics.

So I suggest why not allow us to change races, but force us to keep the passives we were given from our original race?

At least this way you can't just change races because of tweaks to your race.

Leandor wrote: »

M4YON wrote: »

the fact remains hundreds of new players have chosen incompatible races for there characters and simply cannot function in veteran zones and PvP because despite the ability to respec skills, attributes and champion points the incorrect racial abilities are holding them back.

That is certainly not "a fact", it really is hyperbole.

One of my chars is a magicka DK Bosmer, race deliberately chosen for story reasons, melting face in PvP and PvE same as with my other magicka DK (who is a Flamespitter Dunmer build). No, the damage numbers are not the same. Yes, races do have an influence. But it is by far not a "cannot function" difference.

I do hope that you will realize what magnitude of wrong that statement is.

If i was a High Elf i would be more powerful than I currently am, if i, as a Dark elf Sorcerer come up against a High elf Sorcerer i am at a disadvantage because of racial passives that is a fact.

Now i may of over egged the difference it makes but still competitive players such as myself would like the opportunity to correct my mistakes and marginalise the disadvantages.Playstyles, builds vary and make for good different obstacles to overcome but i see nothing wrong with wanting to maximise my builds potential.