bareheiny wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's on the videos in my sig...they heard the feedback and were willing to add more possibilities there

Bah...I don't like watching videos for information, I prefer reading.


<_< >_> I don't suppose there's a transcription of the video anywhere?

Kleptobrainiac wrote: »

I think customizable chat bubbles will be more than sufficient for anyone who thinks text chat is necessary.

I heard they are working on that so you guys now can claim a hard fought victory.

Grats guys! Upgraded text chat is on the way.

Drake_Fury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Drake_Fury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Drake_Fury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Everyone has their opinions...

there is what we hear from the developers...

And then there is what was offered so excuse me if I support the game as is and if I did A LOT of research including playing closed BETa and keeping a thread going for months with console specific updates to inform the forum community of what's to come.

The features like text chat are nothing but a feature. If for anyone it's a deal breaker then it's that gamers responsibility to check and see if such a feature exists prior to making a purchase. The results of people leaving due to a feature that was assumed to be on console soley because it's on PC or because that's what they assumed would be on console isn't a reason for the company to change their development plans.

We as customers are responsible for informing ourselves on any purchase prior. If we don't then we will have to deal with the consequences.

Now regarding text chat box on console...for those who have actually watched the episodes and also who were apart of the console closed BETA, they fully understand if they chose to participate in the console beta forums.

For anyone who didn't have the experience there were and are many different articles showing and explaining features specific to each console prior to release and after release.

I don't fault anyone for making suggestions or having feedback. The issue here largely is that after statements from the DeVs have been made people are arguing with others who are in support of what the DeVs shared publicly.
If they want the DeVs to change their minds...O k there are constructive ways to do so but that's not what's going on in this thread.

Pages and pages of me particularly attempting to avoid arguments, threats, name calling, trolling, baiting, etc all because someone is upset with a misinformed decision they've made.
It's not O K to lash out at others who actually like the game experience without text chat. It's O K to desire to keep a game absent of the flooding of what always comes with in-game text chat. We all have identified or expressed discontent with in-game features that are driving a lot of the comments to have a text chat box but ultimately another form of communication on the screen isn't something I want to see and others also feel the same.

It's very odd that people cannot seem to accept a developers decision and adjust accordingly.
Game after game forums and social media become filled with complaints which largely are resolved by just not buying the product.

We won't see eye to eye on this and if this one topic somehow concludes that something is wrong with my thinking so be it.
If the DeVs decide to change the game, two things happen for me...either I join PTS and give feedback in the forums where they ask for it or I take a few months off until things change to my liking.

When people start suggesting off the wall things like people again "them" having text chat don't want ....deaf ppl, handicap ppl, ppl with broken mics, ....whatever else I skipped or whoever else not to enjoy the game that's what gets under my skin.

Here is the thing....not never has a text chat box been considered so for whatever reason in people's heads they are drawing an idea that I'm trying to change or limit their gaming experience is a very very sad and concerning position.

If this were a ZOS feedback thread where ZOS asked for our feedback to add it then that's different.
They aren't asking, aren't considering and have not desired any feedback on this at all.

The larger issue tho is it's not here because of the reasons they shared on ESO live. None of those reasons are what ppl are arguing about so it's a lot of comments and no one willing to even listen to inform themselves.

I'm very invested into this game so pardon me if I feel that being in support of the DeVs matters vs filling the forums with stabs and feature requests that further delay much needed projects.

I'm going to start this by quoting a Mod. He put this message after moderating some posts, back on page 23-ish, please take note of the bolded part.

ZOS_MatM wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

This thread has been edited and some posts removed. Please keep this thread on topic and respect other people’s opinions. Use the report feature if you feel someone is breaking forum rules instead of replying to post. Let's keep this discussion civil to prevent this thread from being locked as there are some great points being discussed.

Thank you.

Something in that post tells me that this thread did not fall into deaf ears (or should I say blind eyes?). They specifically encourage us to keep the discussion going, even saying that "there are some great points being discussed". It is also important to note that they have redirected other threads about text chat to this particular thread to consolidate discussion, so even though the thread title still mentions that it's about it coming to IC, this thread pretty much became the consolidated console text chat discussion. So, to everyone who does, please stop saying the thread is useless.

That being said, I want to talk about the business model of an mmorpg, since some people still don't seem to understand how it works.

There are 3 business models for mmorpgs, the first one is the subscription model, also known as P2P (pay to play). This model is simple. You pay for the game, then you pay a monthly subscription fee. There is no cash shop, everything you can get, you can get ingame. This is the best model for a company as longas they can keep their player base large enough to have a huge income from subscriptions. This results in frequent patches, updates and Expansions because of theregular flow of money. WoW, Everquest, FFXI and FFXIV are good examples.

The second model is the one we have in ESO, known as B2P (buy to play). This system consists in using the sales of the retail to finance the first 1 or 2 DLCs, and use a cash shop with minor boosts that players can buy to increase effectiveness or estethics (exp scrolls, mounts, etc.). This model also brings in paid updates. If you want to have access to the big patches, you need to buy them as DLC. This is a backup model. Companies will often go with this if they think players won't stay if you charge them monthly, or if you're pushed by microsoft because they don't want subscription games on their console (Which is why FFXIV never went on xbox). If your game is good enough to keep their players, it is a very solid model.

The last model is the one the companies don't want to have to embrace, the F2P (Free to play), also known as the P2W (pay to win) model. This model consists of only microtransactions, and more often than not, you can buy significant upgrades with real money, even making using real money more efficient than anything you do ingame to get your equipement. It is a model where the devs wait until they got enough money from the cash shop to use it to develop more DLCs, resulting in updates coming always slower with the player base slowly leaving.

Whatever the model the company decides to use, 1 thing remains the same: If you lose players, you lose money. If you lose money, your updates get slower, if your updates get slower, you lose more people, and it's a downward spiral. In this, the mmorpg market looks a lot like politics. Every MMO will try to bring something new to the table in order to catch the attention of the players to their game. The player, who rarely plays multiple mmorpgs at the same time, will generally choose one and stick with it for a few months to a few years (I stayed on FFXI for 7 years). The goal of the company is not only to bring people to their game, but also, and more importantly, keep them.

If you don't see the numbers decreasing on ESO, you're burying your head in the sand very deeply. Of course, text is not the only reason for this. The markets are one, the fact that you have to go through many solo quests to unlock areas is another, the fact that the group finder is not used due to the problems it brings, and other stuff.

I don't say that text chat would save ESO. But I know that it would make some of the things that makes people leave more manageable. Some people will leave anyways, but I'm sure it wouldn't be as bad as it aleready is. I've made a few good friends since I play ESO, and I aleready see them leave for different reasons. I like the game and I don't want to see it crash, but it's appearent that it's heading that way at this point. We'll see how many players will come back with IC, but seeing how many left, I doubt that the number will be big. Many people left while they were not even in the Veteran levels, so VR15-16 content is still pretty far for them.

By saying "They can get text in another game", you're not helping ZoS, you're actually hindering them. The average mmo player, the one who will stay on a mmo for more than 2 years, expects some things. Text chat is one of them. By trying to make an mmo game without the basic mmo communication feature is saying: "Let's try to cater to those who don't normally play mmorpgs". This is a mistake. That player base is not the player base who will stick with a video game for over 2 years. They are the player base who will go play the next big game that interests them, and the next one, and the next one, until they stop buying DLCs.

The income of the retail game will cover the developpement costs of making the launch version of the game as well as that of the first and maybe second DLC. All the rest of the money will come from the cash shop and from selling DLCs, so you guys better hope the player hemorragy stops soon or you will all soon realise that a DLC every 3 months can quickly change to a DLC every 6 months, every year, or no more DLC at all...

After reading all of your comments I'm left with concern. I also see you're applying an invalid opinion from one statement vs going back and reading the discussion at least from my comments.

My opinion of they can go play another game with text chat is a reality which comes due to the offerings of this game on console. It may run you wrong but my goal isn't to help ZOS market or grow their game or to be influenced by any business model that customers have attempted to attach to games.

The game is a game which like most console games can be purchased to play online. That's the business side short and simple.

The text chat box is a feature that some games offer while this one does not. Short and simple.

Any arguments that suggest one feature will have an influential impact on the games bottom line is in this case false as those who are giving comments and feedback have already purchased the game which is how they've gained forum access.

Games live and die based on how a companies strategy evolves and changes within their targeted market.
People will leave due to absense of features, loss in interest or just because there is a new game but none of that signifies ZOS is doing something wrong. It's a consumer choice ...that's simple.

Your perspective differs from mine and other players who don't have a problem with the games current forms of communication.
Your comments as well as most others in this thread are pointing towards in-game features and player interactions that could use change or focus but these ideas don't require another form of communication to be added to rectify those concerns.

On PC people are using the form of communication to work around obstacles on that platform. On console people (some) are working around those same obstacles using the forms of communication that each console offers.
The arguments that suggest text chat box is a way to rectify a poorly functioning feature is an opinion and only an opinion that has no financial influence.

Short and simple...if you go buy a car or a game and don't fully understand the functions and features you will have buyers remorse. Some come back and complain while others deal with that differently. In this case the manufacturer or developer has shared their ideas and reasons for text chat not to be in the game. The decision now is keep playing or move on as their feedback was given.

I do think the feedback is better if its on topic with the information shared from the developer so as to have a productive dialogue on topic vs a complaint thread. That's it...if your taking anything else different from what's I've shared then it's a misinterpretation. None of my comments have been moderated so it's respectful and in a discussion format vs arguing.

Hope that helps if my points of view were not clear in what you quoted.

Here, I bolded the part where our opinions are going to the opposite side. Comparing an mmorpg to a basic online game is as wrong as comparing a movie to a TV series.

The general online game is a game that comes as is. It does not get constant updates every few months, heavy content packages (apart from 2-3 DLCs for some games), GMs to actively intervene in the game world, Solid economy (well, I don't really consider ESO's economy solid but that's because of the guild trader system).

That in itself is not a good enough reason to add text chat. What I consider reason enough to add it is the fact that to pay for the constant updating, you need to keep your staff, to do it, you need to pay them, to pay them you need a good money income from the game, to get a good money income from the game, you need to have a larger player base than a subscription game since people don't necessarily pay as much.

I also know that many players who left would still be here if there was text chat. Not all of them, that's for sure, but I do know a few myself. People who are MMO fans. People who were of the opinion that the game was different from all other mmos in its gameplay, an active gameplay, huge customisation starting only with 4 classes, imagine if they add more, possibilities are infinite. Those people are gone now, because of some details in the quality of life of the game.

Please answer this question frankly: Do you really consider the game being healthy right now? What I mean is, look at your guilds, look at the numbers. Tonight, at 7 PM, peak hour, both my french guilds had less than 10% of their members online. On my main guild, it was 6/88, on the other, 30 on 385! on my biggest trade guild, one that has both english and french players, 35/450... My sample may not be very big, but one thing is for sure, the player base is getting very small compared to what it was a month ago.

I'll keep thinking that players who will stay on a mmo for a long time are mmo players. The mmorpg market is aleready saturated, jumping from one to the other is super easy. For that, companies need to make compromises in their ideals, in order to keep players.

I understand that you're not here to make ZOS richer, but to enjoy a game. I'm the same. But in contrast, Ive seen what it's like when a game is dying. I was there when SE had to take the decision to change FFXIV completely or let it die. I've seen what the servers looked like when the company realised they were putting money down the drain. You don't want ESO to go the same way. You don't know what they will decide, follow FFXIV's way and repair it or just let it die.

The advantage FFXIV had is that they found a way to put that remake in the lore, and the second release was marketed just as if it was a brand new game. Some people bought it without even knowing there was another version prior to it. It was probably a very hard decision to make, because the developpement cost of that remake was entirely on them.

Text chat won't solve everything, but I think it would solve more problems than anything else that could be done. If you want to succeed in keeping a mmorpg alive, you need the quality of life elements common to all of them. People who will stick for a long time with a MMO are the MMO fans, whatever the logo on it, Ultima, Everquest, Final Fantasy, Warcraft, DC Comics, Star Wars, Tera, The Elder Scrolls, Aion, name it! What brought me to the mmo world was the name Final Fantasy, just like many were brought in by the name the elder scrolls, but I wouldn't have stayed on FFXI for 7 years if I didn't like the concept of a mmorpg. I would've played a few months and left, since it had nothing to do with what I was used to in the FF series. If you want the mmorpg fans to stay with your game you need to give them something different to hook them, without taking away the quality of life elements they can find in every other mmorpgs, because otherwise they will just end up going back to those other mmorpgs.

I haven't been moderated either, I'm trying to be as detailed in my explanations as to why I think text should be included, I reply when I disagree with someone, and since there is 2 people who are very vocal against, being you and Mrskinskull, I think it's normal that I end up quoting you guys more often than anybody else. That is not an attack in any way, I'm always being as respectful as I can in my comments and I never said you did otherwise. I actually like our conversations because we both develop what we say in detail. I know I'm not going to convince you, I don't need to anyways. The only people I need to convince is ZOS. If one of them comes and says, stop asking, it's never going to happen, maybe I'll stop asking and just play, or maybe I'll leave and move to a different game, but until then I keep hope, because I like what this gams has to offer in terms of gameplay, it only lacks the quality of life elements that every game in its genre has.

Yes, the game is healthy and right now there are lots playing. The first 3 guilds I joined died out....those were basically the MMO traditional folks. The two guilds I joined are pll from Destiny and COD games. Big clans who moved over because of how similar the game plays to other online games on console. There are lots of ppl online each night in these guilds on Xbox one and when I say lots I'm saying more than 25 with 10+ in guild voice chat.

We have PvP nights and I'm not even a PvP player but with one guild it's a natural thing so we are 20+ or more each PvP night playing for hours.

I see a theme in the forums...that theme is XYZ game is dying because XYZ feature isn't implemented. It's been the same theme ever since June of 2014 on PC release and usually due to the nature of players moving from game to game. It's not that the game is dying but rather that this game isn't a traditional MMORPG game. At its core it's TES game with online play with friends concept (that's what the original focus was for the DeVs) and that focus remains true still.

The text chat addition does nothing but place a feature in the game for communication. The problem with doing this on console is that people intend to use it as work around vs a form of communication. That idea is a problem and one that will cause a game like this on console to have a drastic shift. The game DeVs do need to address quite a few in-game UI's and features that don't function as intended. They need to release DLC that fills the needs of different players and largely they need to work on server stability for each platform. That will cause growth and keep existing players happy.

Working on and implementing a new form of communication in a game where the platform intends to not be like a MMO and where the DeVs specifically intend on the presentation looking almost identical to TES is how you hurt or possibly uproot the customers who like the game.

I continue to suggest for people who are adamant about text chat to move to PC because their ideas are in-line with what the PC platform intends to offer. Console by design does not and honestly should not be like PC. The game DeVs intend to reach more than one niche market so what they are doing is logical and so far is causing a lot of growth in the game.

Comparing this game to another game is a problem all MMO forums are full of. The mistake people are making is comparing prior experiences of games they left for reasons to somehow be a reason to change the game they are now playing....but as logic works, if you're playing a different skin with similar features you will soon leave that game too. It's not a good approach to take so for instance the big WoW success is due to being WoW and not being like any other game. Many games tried to
Mimic WoW and almost everyone of those games has had very limited growth and success largely pointing ppl back to WoW as that's the game they want to play. Each time I see the Final Fantasy and DCOU refers I often wonder if the gamers realize why they left or what they are hoping to gain if changing the new game to look and play like prior games.

I've been playing MMO for almost 20 years....same forum logic continues but also the success of those and failure follows.
Changes to mimic another game or platform will has drastic impacts on customer base...in this case I can promise that changing console according what a lot of what we see in the forums isn't the right step.

The best step is to address all in-game functions and features ppl talk about as reasons to add text chat.
Those are the real problems...text chat is a poor bandaid for real issues.

Pink glasses are always nice to wear, aren't they?

You really do remind me of myself, 5 years ago, just after the first launch of FFXIV. I was always defending SE, thinking they couldn't do anything wrong. I was saying, like you, "all the game needs is some tweaks here and there". But then they decided to be adults and admit they made mistakes, mistakes so big that the game had to be remade from scratch. Ever since that day, I stopped looking at any game through pink glasses. At the time, I was not helping. I was going against people trying to help improve the game on the forums, defending the position of the game, and finding reasons as to why they decided to do things differently instead of going with what is known to work. Needless to say, when the game was remade, everything I was defending the devs for not doing was all included...

Personally, I think the fact that your "traditionnal MMO crew" has left and your "CoD Crew" are the ones remaining is very preoccupying. What will your CoD crew do once the next CoD or Battlefield comes out? I think they'll go back to the type of game they like, shooters, while those who like mmorpgs will aleready be gone from ESO. I think they stuck with ESO for a while for the PVP along with the fact that you aim with the target in the middle of your screen, like shooters. Once they get bored of cyrodill and want to go shoot each other in a city landscape, they'll be straight back to CoD.

Back on the topic of text chat, I sincerely think it's a feature that would keep more people in the game. It's the only mode of conversation that can apply to the scale of this kind of game. It has nothing to do with mimicing, it has everything to do with being able to communicate on a larger scale than 20 feet away, with people who for a reason or another can't or don't want to use microphones. Looking for a tankto finish building a group is an horror theese days. WhatI find myself doing is going to the Undaunted enclave, look for people wearing heavy armors, ask in area chat if they ant to group, wait a couple minutes so I see they don't hear me because they cut off area chat, then I note their PSN ID, then have to go through PSN messages to send them a message they they might recieve only 15 minutes later, thanks to PSN messaging system (it's been better recently but itstill bugs sometimes). Then I wait to see if they answer.

Isn't there anything wrong with not being able to say thank you to someone who just helped you do something because it takes 10 seconds to switch chat and by that time the guy can just be far away? Curtesy has been lost to mmos in the past years because of all the catering to casual players who don't care about others. People send blind invites, without saying anything (Personally when I recieve a blind invite, it's an automatic decline, if you want me to play with you, have the decency to say something first). I'm old school like that.

I'll never change my mind aboutthefact that when you play in this kind of world, communication should not be an option, it should be mandatory. Say hi to people, please, thank you, don't be a stranger. Unfortunately, ESO encourages people to be strangers. Not only is there no text, but you can leave voice chat at will (I do understand the possibility of turning off voice, because it can be very invasive, but I will never understand why not put text for those who are not using voice.)

Also, please stop saying that console gamers are any different from PC gamers, and don't want keyboards. Video gamers are video gamers, whatever the platform they play on. If in a situation, a keyboard is more efficient than a headset, like it is in a mmorpg, there is no reason not to include it. Consoles support keyboards the same way PC does. The only difference between a PC and a Console, is that a PC can do other things beside play video games, while consoles are made solely for that purpose. (Now the difference is getting even smaller, with netflix, spotify and other apps that are not games coming to consoles.) PC can use headset, Console too, PC can use keyboards, Console too, PC can use gamepads, Console too. The media you're using shouldn't define the gameplay. Only the game can define a gameplay. If they really wanted to make ESO a game without text chat in the beginning, they could've omitted it on PC too and say PC version has to be played with a headset and a gamepad. But they didn't. You are the one saying they wanted to give that feel to the game in the beginning, but in ESO live, when they said there would be no text chat, the reason they gave was far from what you say. It was more along the line of "console players don't want keyboards on their laps, people on console can't read from the couch", and I'd really like to know to how they got to that reasoning, it's all complete BS. I'm a console gamer and I don't need anybody telling me what I want or not. What I need is being considered a video gamer just like the PC gamer. We're not different, we don't have different needs. We play the same game and therefore we want the same features.

bareheiny wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

Some people have the disposable income for a PlayStation 4, ESO game disc and PS plus and monthly internet connection fees but chafe at the idea of a smart phone?
Shame!

Good try tho.

Who said anything about chafing at the idea of a smart phone?

For all you know my PS4 was a gift, and I have a crappy paper delivery job that covers PS plus. Maybe I still use an old Nokia non-smart phone, and internet is covered as part of my board / rent.

Or maybe it's just that the exclusion argument that chafes. Don't argue that group X would be excluded from something so the solution is to ABC, when that solution excludes group Z.

Kleptobrainiac wrote: »

I think customizable chat bubbles will be more than sufficient for anyone who thinks text chat is necessary.

I heard they are working on that so you guys now can claim a hard fought victory.

Grats guys! Upgraded text chat is on the way.

mrskinskull wrote: »

BigMac_Smiley wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

I would like to see a text chat app soon.
Its really selfish of some people to try to force an outdated mode of text chat on such a progressive game. Why should players who have to work or travel be left out of text chat?
Shame!

Where you come up with this stuff I will never know.

Would you not say it is selfish to prevent people from having text chat. Now you might be saying, "why should I have to be focused to look at text on my screen or communicate with others through typing. Forcing text on me is selfish." But the truth is no one is forcing text chat on anyone. The text chat box would be able to turn of, to the point where you would not even know it was there. Voice chat is not going anywhere and you could continue to enjoy talking to people in game forgetting text ever existed. You would never have to look at it or type, so how is that being selfish. To deny enter of a feature that you could ignore and would benefit other is selfish. And yes I think ZOS is being selfish. They should just admit they made a mistake and add text chat.

So you agree the functionality is essentially the same between the keyboard and the app.

Thanks.

The app would just allow more members of the community to communicate in a wide variety of situations and places.

The text chat app is the best solution because you can take any pro chat argument and add the phrase 'while at work or on the bus'.

mrskinskull wrote: »

Kleptobrainiac wrote: »

I think customizable chat bubbles will be more than sufficient for anyone who thinks text chat is necessary.

I heard they are working on that so you guys now can claim a hard fought victory.

Grats guys! Upgraded text chat is on the way.

Oh cool so these guys will have some form of justification.

And I like the idea of customizable bubbles.

Honestly after reviewing many of the my way or highway pro text arguments , I don't think many of these people would be happy with any solution.

If zos put in a giant 75 percent screen sized text chat tomorrow, there would be hundreds of threads from the same people complaining that there were no colored text options, no item linking, the mute and ignore options weren't enough to keep really clever kids from trolling very serious adults.

Old fashioned 1990 s text chat will lead to MORE threads such as this not less.

The text bubble is a great solution for those of us that actually want to see a text chat solution implemented and not just shoot down any idea that might actually help all involved parties.

I'm still holding out for an app, but yeah this is great news!

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Drake_Fury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Drake_Fury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Drake_Fury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Everyone has their opinions...

there is what we hear from the developers...

And then there is what was offered so excuse me if I support the game as is and if I did A LOT of research including playing closed BETa and keeping a thread going for months with console specific updates to inform the forum community of what's to come.

The features like text chat are nothing but a feature. If for anyone it's a deal breaker then it's that gamers responsibility to check and see if such a feature exists prior to making a purchase. The results of people leaving due to a feature that was assumed to be on console soley because it's on PC or because that's what they assumed would be on console isn't a reason for the company to change their development plans.

We as customers are responsible for informing ourselves on any purchase prior. If we don't then we will have to deal with the consequences.

Now regarding text chat box on console...for those who have actually watched the episodes and also who were apart of the console closed BETA, they fully understand if they chose to participate in the console beta forums.

For anyone who didn't have the experience there were and are many different articles showing and explaining features specific to each console prior to release and after release.

I don't fault anyone for making suggestions or having feedback. The issue here largely is that after statements from the DeVs have been made people are arguing with others who are in support of what the DeVs shared publicly.
If they want the DeVs to change their minds...O k there are constructive ways to do so but that's not what's going on in this thread.

Pages and pages of me particularly attempting to avoid arguments, threats, name calling, trolling, baiting, etc all because someone is upset with a misinformed decision they've made.
It's not O K to lash out at others who actually like the game experience without text chat. It's O K to desire to keep a game absent of the flooding of what always comes with in-game text chat. We all have identified or expressed discontent with in-game features that are driving a lot of the comments to have a text chat box but ultimately another form of communication on the screen isn't something I want to see and others also feel the same.

It's very odd that people cannot seem to accept a developers decision and adjust accordingly.
Game after game forums and social media become filled with complaints which largely are resolved by just not buying the product.

We won't see eye to eye on this and if this one topic somehow concludes that something is wrong with my thinking so be it.
If the DeVs decide to change the game, two things happen for me...either I join PTS and give feedback in the forums where they ask for it or I take a few months off until things change to my liking.

When people start suggesting off the wall things like people again "them" having text chat don't want ....deaf ppl, handicap ppl, ppl with broken mics, ....whatever else I skipped or whoever else not to enjoy the game that's what gets under my skin.

Here is the thing....not never has a text chat box been considered so for whatever reason in people's heads they are drawing an idea that I'm trying to change or limit their gaming experience is a very very sad and concerning position.

If this were a ZOS feedback thread where ZOS asked for our feedback to add it then that's different.
They aren't asking, aren't considering and have not desired any feedback on this at all.

The larger issue tho is it's not here because of the reasons they shared on ESO live. None of those reasons are what ppl are arguing about so it's a lot of comments and no one willing to even listen to inform themselves.

I'm very invested into this game so pardon me if I feel that being in support of the DeVs matters vs filling the forums with stabs and feature requests that further delay much needed projects.

I'm going to start this by quoting a Mod. He put this message after moderating some posts, back on page 23-ish, please take note of the bolded part.

ZOS_MatM wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

This thread has been edited and some posts removed. Please keep this thread on topic and respect other people’s opinions. Use the report feature if you feel someone is breaking forum rules instead of replying to post. Let's keep this discussion civil to prevent this thread from being locked as there are some great points being discussed.

Thank you.

Something in that post tells me that this thread did not fall into deaf ears (or should I say blind eyes?). They specifically encourage us to keep the discussion going, even saying that "there are some great points being discussed". It is also important to note that they have redirected other threads about text chat to this particular thread to consolidate discussion, so even though the thread title still mentions that it's about it coming to IC, this thread pretty much became the consolidated console text chat discussion. So, to everyone who does, please stop saying the thread is useless.

That being said, I want to talk about the business model of an mmorpg, since some people still don't seem to understand how it works.

There are 3 business models for mmorpgs, the first one is the subscription model, also known as P2P (pay to play). This model is simple. You pay for the game, then you pay a monthly subscription fee. There is no cash shop, everything you can get, you can get ingame. This is the best model for a company as longas they can keep their player base large enough to have a huge income from subscriptions. This results in frequent patches, updates and Expansions because of theregular flow of money. WoW, Everquest, FFXI and FFXIV are good examples.

The second model is the one we have in ESO, known as B2P (buy to play). This system consists in using the sales of the retail to finance the first 1 or 2 DLCs, and use a cash shop with minor boosts that players can buy to increase effectiveness or estethics (exp scrolls, mounts, etc.). This model also brings in paid updates. If you want to have access to the big patches, you need to buy them as DLC. This is a backup model. Companies will often go with this if they think players won't stay if you charge them monthly, or if you're pushed by microsoft because they don't want subscription games on their console (Which is why FFXIV never went on xbox). If your game is good enough to keep their players, it is a very solid model.

The last model is the one the companies don't want to have to embrace, the F2P (Free to play), also known as the P2W (pay to win) model. This model consists of only microtransactions, and more often than not, you can buy significant upgrades with real money, even making using real money more efficient than anything you do ingame to get your equipement. It is a model where the devs wait until they got enough money from the cash shop to use it to develop more DLCs, resulting in updates coming always slower with the player base slowly leaving.

Whatever the model the company decides to use, 1 thing remains the same: If you lose players, you lose money. If you lose money, your updates get slower, if your updates get slower, you lose more people, and it's a downward spiral. In this, the mmorpg market looks a lot like politics. Every MMO will try to bring something new to the table in order to catch the attention of the players to their game. The player, who rarely plays multiple mmorpgs at the same time, will generally choose one and stick with it for a few months to a few years (I stayed on FFXI for 7 years). The goal of the company is not only to bring people to their game, but also, and more importantly, keep them.

If you don't see the numbers decreasing on ESO, you're burying your head in the sand very deeply. Of course, text is not the only reason for this. The markets are one, the fact that you have to go through many solo quests to unlock areas is another, the fact that the group finder is not used due to the problems it brings, and other stuff.

I don't say that text chat would save ESO. But I know that it would make some of the things that makes people leave more manageable. Some people will leave anyways, but I'm sure it wouldn't be as bad as it aleready is. I've made a few good friends since I play ESO, and I aleready see them leave for different reasons. I like the game and I don't want to see it crash, but it's appearent that it's heading that way at this point. We'll see how many players will come back with IC, but seeing how many left, I doubt that the number will be big. Many people left while they were not even in the Veteran levels, so VR15-16 content is still pretty far for them.

By saying "They can get text in another game", you're not helping ZoS, you're actually hindering them. The average mmo player, the one who will stay on a mmo for more than 2 years, expects some things. Text chat is one of them. By trying to make an mmo game without the basic mmo communication feature is saying: "Let's try to cater to those who don't normally play mmorpgs". This is a mistake. That player base is not the player base who will stick with a video game for over 2 years. They are the player base who will go play the next big game that interests them, and the next one, and the next one, until they stop buying DLCs.

The income of the retail game will cover the developpement costs of making the launch version of the game as well as that of the first and maybe second DLC. All the rest of the money will come from the cash shop and from selling DLCs, so you guys better hope the player hemorragy stops soon or you will all soon realise that a DLC every 3 months can quickly change to a DLC every 6 months, every year, or no more DLC at all...

After reading all of your comments I'm left with concern. I also see you're applying an invalid opinion from one statement vs going back and reading the discussion at least from my comments.

My opinion of they can go play another game with text chat is a reality which comes due to the offerings of this game on console. It may run you wrong but my goal isn't to help ZOS market or grow their game or to be influenced by any business model that customers have attempted to attach to games.

The game is a game which like most console games can be purchased to play online. That's the business side short and simple.

The text chat box is a feature that some games offer while this one does not. Short and simple.

Any arguments that suggest one feature will have an influential impact on the games bottom line is in this case false as those who are giving comments and feedback have already purchased the game which is how they've gained forum access.

Games live and die based on how a companies strategy evolves and changes within their targeted market.
People will leave due to absense of features, loss in interest or just because there is a new game but none of that signifies ZOS is doing something wrong. It's a consumer choice ...that's simple.

Your perspective differs from mine and other players who don't have a problem with the games current forms of communication.
Your comments as well as most others in this thread are pointing towards in-game features and player interactions that could use change or focus but these ideas don't require another form of communication to be added to rectify those concerns.

On PC people are using the form of communication to work around obstacles on that platform. On console people (some) are working around those same obstacles using the forms of communication that each console offers.
The arguments that suggest text chat box is a way to rectify a poorly functioning feature is an opinion and only an opinion that has no financial influence.

Short and simple...if you go buy a car or a game and don't fully understand the functions and features you will have buyers remorse. Some come back and complain while others deal with that differently. In this case the manufacturer or developer has shared their ideas and reasons for text chat not to be in the game. The decision now is keep playing or move on as their feedback was given.

I do think the feedback is better if its on topic with the information shared from the developer so as to have a productive dialogue on topic vs a complaint thread. That's it...if your taking anything else different from what's I've shared then it's a misinterpretation. None of my comments have been moderated so it's respectful and in a discussion format vs arguing.

Hope that helps if my points of view were not clear in what you quoted.

Here, I bolded the part where our opinions are going to the opposite side. Comparing an mmorpg to a basic online game is as wrong as comparing a movie to a TV series.

The general online game is a game that comes as is. It does not get constant updates every few months, heavy content packages (apart from 2-3 DLCs for some games), GMs to actively intervene in the game world, Solid economy (well, I don't really consider ESO's economy solid but that's because of the guild trader system).

That in itself is not a good enough reason to add text chat. What I consider reason enough to add it is the fact that to pay for the constant updating, you need to keep your staff, to do it, you need to pay them, to pay them you need a good money income from the game, to get a good money income from the game, you need to have a larger player base than a subscription game since people don't necessarily pay as much.

I also know that many players who left would still be here if there was text chat. Not all of them, that's for sure, but I do know a few myself. People who are MMO fans. People who were of the opinion that the game was different from all other mmos in its gameplay, an active gameplay, huge customisation starting only with 4 classes, imagine if they add more, possibilities are infinite. Those people are gone now, because of some details in the quality of life of the game.

Please answer this question frankly: Do you really consider the game being healthy right now? What I mean is, look at your guilds, look at the numbers. Tonight, at 7 PM, peak hour, both my french guilds had less than 10% of their members online. On my main guild, it was 6/88, on the other, 30 on 385! on my biggest trade guild, one that has both english and french players, 35/450... My sample may not be very big, but one thing is for sure, the player base is getting very small compared to what it was a month ago.

I'll keep thinking that players who will stay on a mmo for a long time are mmo players. The mmorpg market is aleready saturated, jumping from one to the other is super easy. For that, companies need to make compromises in their ideals, in order to keep players.

I understand that you're not here to make ZOS richer, but to enjoy a game. I'm the same. But in contrast, Ive seen what it's like when a game is dying. I was there when SE had to take the decision to change FFXIV completely or let it die. I've seen what the servers looked like when the company realised they were putting money down the drain. You don't want ESO to go the same way. You don't know what they will decide, follow FFXIV's way and repair it or just let it die.

The advantage FFXIV had is that they found a way to put that remake in the lore, and the second release was marketed just as if it was a brand new game. Some people bought it without even knowing there was another version prior to it. It was probably a very hard decision to make, because the developpement cost of that remake was entirely on them.

Text chat won't solve everything, but I think it would solve more problems than anything else that could be done. If you want to succeed in keeping a mmorpg alive, you need the quality of life elements common to all of them. People who will stick for a long time with a MMO are the MMO fans, whatever the logo on it, Ultima, Everquest, Final Fantasy, Warcraft, DC Comics, Star Wars, Tera, The Elder Scrolls, Aion, name it! What brought me to the mmo world was the name Final Fantasy, just like many were brought in by the name the elder scrolls, but I wouldn't have stayed on FFXI for 7 years if I didn't like the concept of a mmorpg. I would've played a few months and left, since it had nothing to do with what I was used to in the FF series. If you want the mmorpg fans to stay with your game you need to give them something different to hook them, without taking away the quality of life elements they can find in every other mmorpgs, because otherwise they will just end up going back to those other mmorpgs.

I haven't been moderated either, I'm trying to be as detailed in my explanations as to why I think text should be included, I reply when I disagree with someone, and since there is 2 people who are very vocal against, being you and Mrskinskull, I think it's normal that I end up quoting you guys more often than anybody else. That is not an attack in any way, I'm always being as respectful as I can in my comments and I never said you did otherwise. I actually like our conversations because we both develop what we say in detail. I know I'm not going to convince you, I don't need to anyways. The only people I need to convince is ZOS. If one of them comes and says, stop asking, it's never going to happen, maybe I'll stop asking and just play, or maybe I'll leave and move to a different game, but until then I keep hope, because I like what this gams has to offer in terms of gameplay, it only lacks the quality of life elements that every game in its genre has.

Yes, the game is healthy and right now there are lots playing. The first 3 guilds I joined died out....those were basically the MMO traditional folks. The two guilds I joined are pll from Destiny and COD games. Big clans who moved over because of how similar the game plays to other online games on console. There are lots of ppl online each night in these guilds on Xbox one and when I say lots I'm saying more than 25 with 10+ in guild voice chat.

We have PvP nights and I'm not even a PvP player but with one guild it's a natural thing so we are 20+ or more each PvP night playing for hours.

I see a theme in the forums...that theme is XYZ game is dying because XYZ feature isn't implemented. It's been the same theme ever since June of 2014 on PC release and usually due to the nature of players moving from game to game. It's not that the game is dying but rather that this game isn't a traditional MMORPG game. At its core it's TES game with online play with friends concept (that's what the original focus was for the DeVs) and that focus remains true still.

The text chat addition does nothing but place a feature in the game for communication. The problem with doing this on console is that people intend to use it as work around vs a form of communication. That idea is a problem and one that will cause a game like this on console to have a drastic shift. The game DeVs do need to address quite a few in-game UI's and features that don't function as intended. They need to release DLC that fills the needs of different players and largely they need to work on server stability for each platform. That will cause growth and keep existing players happy.

Working on and implementing a new form of communication in a game where the platform intends to not be like a MMO and where the DeVs specifically intend on the presentation looking almost identical to TES is how you hurt or possibly uproot the customers who like the game.

I continue to suggest for people who are adamant about text chat to move to PC because their ideas are in-line with what the PC platform intends to offer. Console by design does not and honestly should not be like PC. The game DeVs intend to reach more than one niche market so what they are doing is logical and so far is causing a lot of growth in the game.

Comparing this game to another game is a problem all MMO forums are full of. The mistake people are making is comparing prior experiences of games they left for reasons to somehow be a reason to change the game they are now playing....but as logic works, if you're playing a different skin with similar features you will soon leave that game too. It's not a good approach to take so for instance the big WoW success is due to being WoW and not being like any other game. Many games tried to
Mimic WoW and almost everyone of those games has had very limited growth and success largely pointing ppl back to WoW as that's the game they want to play. Each time I see the Final Fantasy and DCOU refers I often wonder if the gamers realize why they left or what they are hoping to gain if changing the new game to look and play like prior games.

I've been playing MMO for almost 20 years....same forum logic continues but also the success of those and failure follows.
Changes to mimic another game or platform will has drastic impacts on customer base...in this case I can promise that changing console according what a lot of what we see in the forums isn't the right step.

The best step is to address all in-game functions and features ppl talk about as reasons to add text chat.
Those are the real problems...text chat is a poor bandaid for real issues.

Pink glasses are always nice to wear, aren't they?

You really do remind me of myself, 5 years ago, just after the first launch of FFXIV. I was always defending SE, thinking they couldn't do anything wrong. I was saying, like you, "all the game needs is some tweaks here and there". But then they decided to be adults and admit they made mistakes, mistakes so big that the game had to be remade from scratch. Ever since that day, I stopped looking at any game through pink glasses. At the time, I was not helping. I was going against people trying to help improve the game on the forums, defending the position of the game, and finding reasons as to why they decided to do things differently instead of going with what is known to work. Needless to say, when the game was remade, everything I was defending the devs for not doing was all included...

Personally, I think the fact that your "traditionnal MMO crew" has left and your "CoD Crew" are the ones remaining is very preoccupying. What will your CoD crew do once the next CoD or Battlefield comes out? I think they'll go back to the type of game they like, shooters, while those who like mmorpgs will aleready be gone from ESO. I think they stuck with ESO for a while for the PVP along with the fact that you aim with the target in the middle of your screen, like shooters. Once they get bored of cyrodill and want to go shoot each other in a city landscape, they'll be straight back to CoD.

Back on the topic of text chat, I sincerely think it's a feature that would keep more people in the game. It's the only mode of conversation that can apply to the scale of this kind of game. It has nothing to do with mimicing, it has everything to do with being able to communicate on a larger scale than 20 feet away, with people who for a reason or another can't or don't want to use microphones. Looking for a tankto finish building a group is an horror theese days. WhatI find myself doing is going to the Undaunted enclave, look for people wearing heavy armors, ask in area chat if they ant to group, wait a couple minutes so I see they don't hear me because they cut off area chat, then I note their PSN ID, then have to go through PSN messages to send them a message they they might recieve only 15 minutes later, thanks to PSN messaging system (it's been better recently but itstill bugs sometimes). Then I wait to see if they answer.

Isn't there anything wrong with not being able to say thank you to someone who just helped you do something because it takes 10 seconds to switch chat and by that time the guy can just be far away? Curtesy has been lost to mmos in the past years because of all the catering to casual players who don't care about others. People send blind invites, without saying anything (Personally when I recieve a blind invite, it's an automatic decline, if you want me to play with you, have the decency to say something first). I'm old school like that.

I'll never change my mind aboutthefact that when you play in this kind of world, communication should not be an option, it should be mandatory. Say hi to people, please, thank you, don't be a stranger. Unfortunately, ESO encourages people to be strangers. Not only is there no text, but you can leave voice chat at will (I do understand the possibility of turning off voice, because it can be very invasive, but I will never understand why not put text for those who are not using voice.)

Also, please stop saying that console gamers are any different from PC gamers, and don't want keyboards. Video gamers are video gamers, whatever the platform they play on. If in a situation, a keyboard is more efficient than a headset, like it is in a mmorpg, there is no reason not to include it. Consoles support keyboards the same way PC does. The only difference between a PC and a Console, is that a PC can do other things beside play video games, while consoles are made solely for that purpose. (Now the difference is getting even smaller, with netflix, spotify and other apps that are not games coming to consoles.) PC can use headset, Console too, PC can use keyboards, Console too, PC can use gamepads, Console too. The media you're using shouldn't define the gameplay. Only the game can define a gameplay. If they really wanted to make ESO a game without text chat in the beginning, they could've omitted it on PC too and say PC version has to be played with a headset and a gamepad. But they didn't. You are the one saying they wanted to give that feel to the game in the beginning, but in ESO live, when they said there would be no text chat, the reason they gave was far from what you say. It was more along the line of "console players don't want keyboards on their laps, people on console can't read from the couch", and I'd really like to know to how they got to that reasoning, it's all complete BS. I'm a console gamer and I don't need anybody telling me what I want or not. What I need is being considered a video gamer just like the PC gamer. We're not different, we don't have different needs. We play the same game and therefore we want the same features.

I'm not sure why we are debating this idea of a text chat box.
As of now regardless of any argument or opinion it's not coming to consoles according to ZOS.

Pages ago I shared why ZOS and when ZOS and how ZOS informed the community and the public of their decision.

In regards to how anyone thinks it will cause the game to fail....when games fail due to a lack of communication it means there are many other factors found lacking because for sure text chat isn't going to save any game. It's simply a feature or a method of communication that ZOS decided did not fit into their presentation.

I and a few others have pitched a few ideas to bounce around based on what ZOS hasn't said they won't consider and those discussions were going great until people came back and began arguing and name calling or trolling which caused a lot of moderation. You can discuss whatever you like but I'd rather not be quoted if the goal is to go back n forth about why you think a feature should be added that the company has already said will not be added.

And I get the thoughts of ppl saying things change...sure they do but the last big change took over a year plus so while some are waiting for the next change others will come and go. I adapt as I like the games presentation better on Xbox than on PC as I own both and have played on PC since closed beta. I left PC for a couple of months to play other online console games because those particular games were more fun to me than this was on PC. Now with its Xbox presentation I'm back...not because of a sub, not because of friends but because it doesn't have text chat, it has voice chat, it has controller support natively, it utilizes the existing gamertage and friends lists, it differs from PC....the list goes on.

There are ppl who also feel this way who are on console.
Console gamers and PC gamers in most cases are somewhat alike as people but where and how they prefer to enjoy gaming is VERY different. Some have both like me where others pick one or two but in the end the games they buy are games that present well and that create enjoyment. Ppl make bad purchases very often...that's one of the huge benefits to gamestop and EBay. As I read your comments it seems you too may have made a misinformed purchase which is now causing you to desire the company to change their presentation in order to fit your desires or your oversights....

The ideas (some) are using the in-game social menu to create some form of text to type
Others are chat bubbles and even a full text chat box within a menu.

After watching both videos in my signature entirely and being aware that just. Few weeks ago the recent comment from ZOS is no new information....what thoughts do you have about the ideas that are within range of what ZOS has said they would consider?

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Drake_Fury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Drake_Fury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Drake_Fury wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Everyone has their opinions...

there is what we hear from the developers...

And then there is what was offered so excuse me if I support the game as is and if I did A LOT of research including playing closed BETa and keeping a thread going for months with console specific updates to inform the forum community of what's to come.

The features like text chat are nothing but a feature. If for anyone it's a deal breaker then it's that gamers responsibility to check and see if such a feature exists prior to making a purchase. The results of people leaving due to a feature that was assumed to be on console soley because it's on PC or because that's what they assumed would be on console isn't a reason for the company to change their development plans.

We as customers are responsible for informing ourselves on any purchase prior. If we don't then we will have to deal with the consequences.

Now regarding text chat box on console...for those who have actually watched the episodes and also who were apart of the console closed BETA, they fully understand if they chose to participate in the console beta forums.

For anyone who didn't have the experience there were and are many different articles showing and explaining features specific to each console prior to release and after release.

I don't fault anyone for making suggestions or having feedback. The issue here largely is that after statements from the DeVs have been made people are arguing with others who are in support of what the DeVs shared publicly.
If they want the DeVs to change their minds...O k there are constructive ways to do so but that's not what's going on in this thread.

Pages and pages of me particularly attempting to avoid arguments, threats, name calling, trolling, baiting, etc all because someone is upset with a misinformed decision they've made.
It's not O K to lash out at others who actually like the game experience without text chat. It's O K to desire to keep a game absent of the flooding of what always comes with in-game text chat. We all have identified or expressed discontent with in-game features that are driving a lot of the comments to have a text chat box but ultimately another form of communication on the screen isn't something I want to see and others also feel the same.

It's very odd that people cannot seem to accept a developers decision and adjust accordingly.
Game after game forums and social media become filled with complaints which largely are resolved by just not buying the product.

We won't see eye to eye on this and if this one topic somehow concludes that something is wrong with my thinking so be it.
If the DeVs decide to change the game, two things happen for me...either I join PTS and give feedback in the forums where they ask for it or I take a few months off until things change to my liking.

When people start suggesting off the wall things like people again "them" having text chat don't want ....deaf ppl, handicap ppl, ppl with broken mics, ....whatever else I skipped or whoever else not to enjoy the game that's what gets under my skin.

Here is the thing....not never has a text chat box been considered so for whatever reason in people's heads they are drawing an idea that I'm trying to change or limit their gaming experience is a very very sad and concerning position.

If this were a ZOS feedback thread where ZOS asked for our feedback to add it then that's different.
They aren't asking, aren't considering and have not desired any feedback on this at all.

The larger issue tho is it's not here because of the reasons they shared on ESO live. None of those reasons are what ppl are arguing about so it's a lot of comments and no one willing to even listen to inform themselves.

I'm very invested into this game so pardon me if I feel that being in support of the DeVs matters vs filling the forums with stabs and feature requests that further delay much needed projects.

I'm going to start this by quoting a Mod. He put this message after moderating some posts, back on page 23-ish, please take note of the bolded part.

ZOS_MatM wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

This thread has been edited and some posts removed. Please keep this thread on topic and respect other people’s opinions. Use the report feature if you feel someone is breaking forum rules instead of replying to post. Let's keep this discussion civil to prevent this thread from being locked as there are some great points being discussed.

Thank you.

Something in that post tells me that this thread did not fall into deaf ears (or should I say blind eyes?). They specifically encourage us to keep the discussion going, even saying that "there are some great points being discussed". It is also important to note that they have redirected other threads about text chat to this particular thread to consolidate discussion, so even though the thread title still mentions that it's about it coming to IC, this thread pretty much became the consolidated console text chat discussion. So, to everyone who does, please stop saying the thread is useless.

That being said, I want to talk about the business model of an mmorpg, since some people still don't seem to understand how it works.

There are 3 business models for mmorpgs, the first one is the subscription model, also known as P2P (pay to play). This model is simple. You pay for the game, then you pay a monthly subscription fee. There is no cash shop, everything you can get, you can get ingame. This is the best model for a company as longas they can keep their player base large enough to have a huge income from subscriptions. This results in frequent patches, updates and Expansions because of theregular flow of money. WoW, Everquest, FFXI and FFXIV are good examples.

The second model is the one we have in ESO, known as B2P (buy to play). This system consists in using the sales of the retail to finance the first 1 or 2 DLCs, and use a cash shop with minor boosts that players can buy to increase effectiveness or estethics (exp scrolls, mounts, etc.). This model also brings in paid updates. If you want to have access to the big patches, you need to buy them as DLC. This is a backup model. Companies will often go with this if they think players won't stay if you charge them monthly, or if you're pushed by microsoft because they don't want subscription games on their console (Which is why FFXIV never went on xbox). If your game is good enough to keep their players, it is a very solid model.

The last model is the one the companies don't want to have to embrace, the F2P (Free to play), also known as the P2W (pay to win) model. This model consists of only microtransactions, and more often than not, you can buy significant upgrades with real money, even making using real money more efficient than anything you do ingame to get your equipement. It is a model where the devs wait until they got enough money from the cash shop to use it to develop more DLCs, resulting in updates coming always slower with the player base slowly leaving.

Whatever the model the company decides to use, 1 thing remains the same: If you lose players, you lose money. If you lose money, your updates get slower, if your updates get slower, you lose more people, and it's a downward spiral. In this, the mmorpg market looks a lot like politics. Every MMO will try to bring something new to the table in order to catch the attention of the players to their game. The player, who rarely plays multiple mmorpgs at the same time, will generally choose one and stick with it for a few months to a few years (I stayed on FFXI for 7 years). The goal of the company is not only to bring people to their game, but also, and more importantly, keep them.

If you don't see the numbers decreasing on ESO, you're burying your head in the sand very deeply. Of course, text is not the only reason for this. The markets are one, the fact that you have to go through many solo quests to unlock areas is another, the fact that the group finder is not used due to the problems it brings, and other stuff.

I don't say that text chat would save ESO. But I know that it would make some of the things that makes people leave more manageable. Some people will leave anyways, but I'm sure it wouldn't be as bad as it aleready is. I've made a few good friends since I play ESO, and I aleready see them leave for different reasons. I like the game and I don't want to see it crash, but it's appearent that it's heading that way at this point. We'll see how many players will come back with IC, but seeing how many left, I doubt that the number will be big. Many people left while they were not even in the Veteran levels, so VR15-16 content is still pretty far for them.

By saying "They can get text in another game", you're not helping ZoS, you're actually hindering them. The average mmo player, the one who will stay on a mmo for more than 2 years, expects some things. Text chat is one of them. By trying to make an mmo game without the basic mmo communication feature is saying: "Let's try to cater to those who don't normally play mmorpgs". This is a mistake. That player base is not the player base who will stick with a video game for over 2 years. They are the player base who will go play the next big game that interests them, and the next one, and the next one, until they stop buying DLCs.

The income of the retail game will cover the developpement costs of making the launch version of the game as well as that of the first and maybe second DLC. All the rest of the money will come from the cash shop and from selling DLCs, so you guys better hope the player hemorragy stops soon or you will all soon realise that a DLC every 3 months can quickly change to a DLC every 6 months, every year, or no more DLC at all...

After reading all of your comments I'm left with concern. I also see you're applying an invalid opinion from one statement vs going back and reading the discussion at least from my comments.

My opinion of they can go play another game with text chat is a reality which comes due to the offerings of this game on console. It may run you wrong but my goal isn't to help ZOS market or grow their game or to be influenced by any business model that customers have attempted to attach to games.

The game is a game which like most console games can be purchased to play online. That's the business side short and simple.

The text chat box is a feature that some games offer while this one does not. Short and simple.

Any arguments that suggest one feature will have an influential impact on the games bottom line is in this case false as those who are giving comments and feedback have already purchased the game which is how they've gained forum access.

Games live and die based on how a companies strategy evolves and changes within their targeted market.
People will leave due to absense of features, loss in interest or just because there is a new game but none of that signifies ZOS is doing something wrong. It's a consumer choice ...that's simple.

Your perspective differs from mine and other players who don't have a problem with the games current forms of communication.
Your comments as well as most others in this thread are pointing towards in-game features and player interactions that could use change or focus but these ideas don't require another form of communication to be added to rectify those concerns.

On PC people are using the form of communication to work around obstacles on that platform. On console people (some) are working around those same obstacles using the forms of communication that each console offers.
The arguments that suggest text chat box is a way to rectify a poorly functioning feature is an opinion and only an opinion that has no financial influence.

Short and simple...if you go buy a car or a game and don't fully understand the functions and features you will have buyers remorse. Some come back and complain while others deal with that differently. In this case the manufacturer or developer has shared their ideas and reasons for text chat not to be in the game. The decision now is keep playing or move on as their feedback was given.

I do think the feedback is better if its on topic with the information shared from the developer so as to have a productive dialogue on topic vs a complaint thread. That's it...if your taking anything else different from what's I've shared then it's a misinterpretation. None of my comments have been moderated so it's respectful and in a discussion format vs arguing.

Hope that helps if my points of view were not clear in what you quoted.

Here, I bolded the part where our opinions are going to the opposite side. Comparing an mmorpg to a basic online game is as wrong as comparing a movie to a TV series.

The general online game is a game that comes as is. It does not get constant updates every few months, heavy content packages (apart from 2-3 DLCs for some games), GMs to actively intervene in the game world, Solid economy (well, I don't really consider ESO's economy solid but that's because of the guild trader system).

That in itself is not a good enough reason to add text chat. What I consider reason enough to add it is the fact that to pay for the constant updating, you need to keep your staff, to do it, you need to pay them, to pay them you need a good money income from the game, to get a good money income from the game, you need to have a larger player base than a subscription game since people don't necessarily pay as much.

I also know that many players who left would still be here if there was text chat. Not all of them, that's for sure, but I do know a few myself. People who are MMO fans. People who were of the opinion that the game was different from all other mmos in its gameplay, an active gameplay, huge customisation starting only with 4 classes, imagine if they add more, possibilities are infinite. Those people are gone now, because of some details in the quality of life of the game.

Please answer this question frankly: Do you really consider the game being healthy right now? What I mean is, look at your guilds, look at the numbers. Tonight, at 7 PM, peak hour, both my french guilds had less than 10% of their members online. On my main guild, it was 6/88, on the other, 30 on 385! on my biggest trade guild, one that has both english and french players, 35/450... My sample may not be very big, but one thing is for sure, the player base is getting very small compared to what it was a month ago.

I'll keep thinking that players who will stay on a mmo for a long time are mmo players. The mmorpg market is aleready saturated, jumping from one to the other is super easy. For that, companies need to make compromises in their ideals, in order to keep players.

I understand that you're not here to make ZOS richer, but to enjoy a game. I'm the same. But in contrast, Ive seen what it's like when a game is dying. I was there when SE had to take the decision to change FFXIV completely or let it die. I've seen what the servers looked like when the company realised they were putting money down the drain. You don't want ESO to go the same way. You don't know what they will decide, follow FFXIV's way and repair it or just let it die.

The advantage FFXIV had is that they found a way to put that remake in the lore, and the second release was marketed just as if it was a brand new game. Some people bought it without even knowing there was another version prior to it. It was probably a very hard decision to make, because the developpement cost of that remake was entirely on them.

Text chat won't solve everything, but I think it would solve more problems than anything else that could be done. If you want to succeed in keeping a mmorpg alive, you need the quality of life elements common to all of them. People who will stick for a long time with a MMO are the MMO fans, whatever the logo on it, Ultima, Everquest, Final Fantasy, Warcraft, DC Comics, Star Wars, Tera, The Elder Scrolls, Aion, name it! What brought me to the mmo world was the name Final Fantasy, just like many were brought in by the name the elder scrolls, but I wouldn't have stayed on FFXI for 7 years if I didn't like the concept of a mmorpg. I would've played a few months and left, since it had nothing to do with what I was used to in the FF series. If you want the mmorpg fans to stay with your game you need to give them something different to hook them, without taking away the quality of life elements they can find in every other mmorpgs, because otherwise they will just end up going back to those other mmorpgs.

I haven't been moderated either, I'm trying to be as detailed in my explanations as to why I think text should be included, I reply when I disagree with someone, and since there is 2 people who are very vocal against, being you and Mrskinskull, I think it's normal that I end up quoting you guys more often than anybody else. That is not an attack in any way, I'm always being as respectful as I can in my comments and I never said you did otherwise. I actually like our conversations because we both develop what we say in detail. I know I'm not going to convince you, I don't need to anyways. The only people I need to convince is ZOS. If one of them comes and says, stop asking, it's never going to happen, maybe I'll stop asking and just play, or maybe I'll leave and move to a different game, but until then I keep hope, because I like what this gams has to offer in terms of gameplay, it only lacks the quality of life elements that every game in its genre has.

Yes, the game is healthy and right now there are lots playing. The first 3 guilds I joined died out....those were basically the MMO traditional folks. The two guilds I joined are pll from Destiny and COD games. Big clans who moved over because of how similar the game plays to other online games on console. There are lots of ppl online each night in these guilds on Xbox one and when I say lots I'm saying more than 25 with 10+ in guild voice chat.

We have PvP nights and I'm not even a PvP player but with one guild it's a natural thing so we are 20+ or more each PvP night playing for hours.

I see a theme in the forums...that theme is XYZ game is dying because XYZ feature isn't implemented. It's been the same theme ever since June of 2014 on PC release and usually due to the nature of players moving from game to game. It's not that the game is dying but rather that this game isn't a traditional MMORPG game. At its core it's TES game with online play with friends concept (that's what the original focus was for the DeVs) and that focus remains true still.

The text chat addition does nothing but place a feature in the game for communication. The problem with doing this on console is that people intend to use it as work around vs a form of communication. That idea is a problem and one that will cause a game like this on console to have a drastic shift. The game DeVs do need to address quite a few in-game UI's and features that don't function as intended. They need to release DLC that fills the needs of different players and largely they need to work on server stability for each platform. That will cause growth and keep existing players happy.

Working on and implementing a new form of communication in a game where the platform intends to not be like a MMO and where the DeVs specifically intend on the presentation looking almost identical to TES is how you hurt or possibly uproot the customers who like the game.

I continue to suggest for people who are adamant about text chat to move to PC because their ideas are in-line with what the PC platform intends to offer. Console by design does not and honestly should not be like PC. The game DeVs intend to reach more than one niche market so what they are doing is logical and so far is causing a lot of growth in the game.

Comparing this game to another game is a problem all MMO forums are full of. The mistake people are making is comparing prior experiences of games they left for reasons to somehow be a reason to change the game they are now playing....but as logic works, if you're playing a different skin with similar features you will soon leave that game too. It's not a good approach to take so for instance the big WoW success is due to being WoW and not being like any other game. Many games tried to
Mimic WoW and almost everyone of those games has had very limited growth and success largely pointing ppl back to WoW as that's the game they want to play. Each time I see the Final Fantasy and DCOU refers I often wonder if the gamers realize why they left or what they are hoping to gain if changing the new game to look and play like prior games.

I've been playing MMO for almost 20 years....same forum logic continues but also the success of those and failure follows.
Changes to mimic another game or platform will has drastic impacts on customer base...in this case I can promise that changing console according what a lot of what we see in the forums isn't the right step.

The best step is to address all in-game functions and features ppl talk about as reasons to add text chat.
Those are the real problems...text chat is a poor bandaid for real issues.

Pink glasses are always nice to wear, aren't they?

You really do remind me of myself, 5 years ago, just after the first launch of FFXIV. I was always defending SE, thinking they couldn't do anything wrong. I was saying, like you, "all the game needs is some tweaks here and there". But then they decided to be adults and admit they made mistakes, mistakes so big that the game had to be remade from scratch. Ever since that day, I stopped looking at any game through pink glasses. At the time, I was not helping. I was going against people trying to help improve the game on the forums, defending the position of the game, and finding reasons as to why they decided to do things differently instead of going with what is known to work. Needless to say, when the game was remade, everything I was defending the devs for not doing was all included...

Personally, I think the fact that your "traditionnal MMO crew" has left and your "CoD Crew" are the ones remaining is very preoccupying. What will your CoD crew do once the next CoD or Battlefield comes out? I think they'll go back to the type of game they like, shooters, while those who like mmorpgs will aleready be gone from ESO. I think they stuck with ESO for a while for the PVP along with the fact that you aim with the target in the middle of your screen, like shooters. Once they get bored of cyrodill and want to go shoot each other in a city landscape, they'll be straight back to CoD.

Back on the topic of text chat, I sincerely think it's a feature that would keep more people in the game. It's the only mode of conversation that can apply to the scale of this kind of game. It has nothing to do with mimicing, it has everything to do with being able to communicate on a larger scale than 20 feet away, with people who for a reason or another can't or don't want to use microphones. Looking for a tankto finish building a group is an horror theese days. WhatI find myself doing is going to the Undaunted enclave, look for people wearing heavy armors, ask in area chat if they ant to group, wait a couple minutes so I see they don't hear me because they cut off area chat, then I note their PSN ID, then have to go through PSN messages to send them a message they they might recieve only 15 minutes later, thanks to PSN messaging system (it's been better recently but itstill bugs sometimes). Then I wait to see if they answer.

Isn't there anything wrong with not being able to say thank you to someone who just helped you do something because it takes 10 seconds to switch chat and by that time the guy can just be far away? Curtesy has been lost to mmos in the past years because of all the catering to casual players who don't care about others. People send blind invites, without saying anything (Personally when I recieve a blind invite, it's an automatic decline, if you want me to play with you, have the decency to say something first). I'm old school like that.

I'll never change my mind aboutthefact that when you play in this kind of world, communication should not be an option, it should be mandatory. Say hi to people, please, thank you, don't be a stranger. Unfortunately, ESO encourages people to be strangers. Not only is there no text, but you can leave voice chat at will (I do understand the possibility of turning off voice, because it can be very invasive, but I will never understand why not put text for those who are not using voice.)

Also, please stop saying that console gamers are any different from PC gamers, and don't want keyboards. Video gamers are video gamers, whatever the platform they play on. If in a situation, a keyboard is more efficient than a headset, like it is in a mmorpg, there is no reason not to include it. Consoles support keyboards the same way PC does. The only difference between a PC and a Console, is that a PC can do other things beside play video games, while consoles are made solely for that purpose. (Now the difference is getting even smaller, with netflix, spotify and other apps that are not games coming to consoles.) PC can use headset, Console too, PC can use keyboards, Console too, PC can use gamepads, Console too. The media you're using shouldn't define the gameplay. Only the game can define a gameplay. If they really wanted to make ESO a game without text chat in the beginning, they could've omitted it on PC too and say PC version has to be played with a headset and a gamepad. But they didn't. You are the one saying they wanted to give that feel to the game in the beginning, but in ESO live, when they said there would be no text chat, the reason they gave was far from what you say. It was more along the line of "console players don't want keyboards on their laps, people on console can't read from the couch", and I'd really like to know to how they got to that reasoning, it's all complete BS. I'm a console gamer and I don't need anybody telling me what I want or not. What I need is being considered a video gamer just like the PC gamer. We're not different, we don't have different needs. We play the same game and therefore we want the same features.

I'm not sure why we are debating this idea of a text chat box.
As of now regardless of any argument or opinion it's not coming to consoles according to ZOS.

Pages ago I shared why ZOS and when ZOS and how ZOS informed the community and the public of their decision.

In regards to how anyone thinks it will cause the game to fail....when games fail due to a lack of communication it means there are many other factors found lacking because for sure text chat isn't going to save any game. It's simply a feature or a method of communication that ZOS decided did not fit into their presentation.

I and a few others have pitched a few ideas to bounce around based on what ZOS hasn't said they won't consider and those discussions were going great until people came back and began arguing and name calling or trolling which caused a lot of moderation. You can discuss whatever you like but I'd rather not be quoted if the goal is to go back n forth about why you think a feature should be added that the company has already said will not be added.

And I get the thoughts of ppl saying things change...sure they do but the last big change took over a year plus so while some are waiting for the next change others will come and go. I adapt as I like the games presentation better on Xbox than on PC as I own both and have played on PC since closed beta. I left PC for a couple of months to play other online console games because those particular games were more fun to me than this was on PC. Now with its Xbox presentation I'm back...not because of a sub, not because of friends but because it doesn't have text chat, it has voice chat, it has controller support natively, it utilizes the existing gamertage and friends lists, it differs from PC....the list goes on.

There are ppl who also feel this way who are on console.
Console gamers and PC gamers in most cases are somewhat alike as people but where and how they prefer to enjoy gaming is VERY different. Some have both like me where others pick one or two but in the end the games they buy are games that present well and that create enjoyment. Ppl make bad purchases very often...that's one of the huge benefits to gamestop and EBay. As I read your comments it seems you too may have made a misinformed purchase which is now causing you to desire the company to change their presentation in order to fit your desires or your oversights....

The ideas (some) are using the in-game social menu to create some form of text to type
Others are chat bubbles and even a full text chat box within a menu.

After watching both videos in my signature entirely and being aware that just. Few weeks ago the recent comment from ZOS is no new information....what thoughts do you have about the ideas that are within range of what ZOS has said they would consider?

mrskinskull wrote: »

BigMac_Smiley wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

BigMac_Smiley wrote: »

mrskinskull wrote: »

I would like to see a text chat app soon.
Its really selfish of some people to try to force an outdated mode of text chat on such a progressive game. Why should players who have to work or travel be left out of text chat?
Shame!

Where you come up with this stuff I will never know.

Would you not say it is selfish to prevent people from having text chat. Now you might be saying, "why should I have to be focused to look at text on my screen or communicate with others through typing. Forcing text on me is selfish." But the truth is no one is forcing text chat on anyone. The text chat box would be able to turn of, to the point where you would not even know it was there. Voice chat is not going anywhere and you could continue to enjoy talking to people in game forgetting text ever existed. You would never have to look at it or type, so how is that being selfish. To deny enter of a feature that you could ignore and would benefit other is selfish. And yes I think ZOS is being selfish. They should just admit they made a mistake and add text chat.

So you agree the functionality is essentially the same between the keyboard and the app.

Thanks.

The app would just allow more members of the community to communicate in a wide variety of situations and places.

The text chat app is the best solution because you can take any pro chat argument and add the phrase 'while at work or on the bus'.

You cannot just respond with nonsense. An app in not a solution. Go create a new thread to discuss the idea of an app, this is about having in game text chat box.

Also just so people know there has been no confirmation that they are making customizable chat bubbles. They said there are looking at adding more chat bubble/ emotes to the game. They never said it would be customizable as far as I have heard. That could mean there are just looking at adding more pre-set phrases. If someone could link where they herd customizable that would be great.

This thread is about text chat.

A text chat app is likely the only way to implement it without driving off new casual players.

I can tell you know I'm right by how defensive your post is.
At the end of the day, the app is a better solution that pleases a larger crowd.

Cheers.