best race for magic templar ?

MrGrimey · August 2015

3% cost reduction is not even close to as good as 9% magicka regen... Just take a look at how many champ points it takes to reach 3% cost reduction and how many it takes to get 9% regen.

Also increased regen stacks with gear and potion stats where cost reuction does not

eliisra · August 2015

Breton for endgame looks.

Altmer for endgame dps.

Altmer 9% regen is more effective than Breton 3% cost reduction. It's not a matter of "taste". Just compare CP Magician with Arcanist and there's your answer.

Also the way recovery % can be stacked and increased with gear, drinks and stats, makes it stronger. While your percentage in cost redaction only improves by jewellery enchants.

Elemental Talent still boosts skill like Sun Fire(getting buffed next patch), Destruction staff light/heavy attack and Meteor ulti. It's not a waste.

At least Breton Spell Resistance, is going to be really useful again, now that nirn is getting fixed. So overall it's a great choice to.

But I personally prefer Dunmer for the extra stamina pool and the fire resist. Goes well with vampire magicka templar in PvP. Magicka templar also need all the stamina they can get, especially now when every single feature ability is going to come with a cost penalty.

Leandor · August 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Also the way recovery % can be stacked and increased with gear, drinks and stats, makes it stronger. While your percentage in cost redaction only improves by jewellery enchants.

Interesting how perceptions differ. Exactly this selfsame argument is what makes me decide for cost reduction over regeneration. Regeneration is so easy to stack and many sets will have one regen bonus on their way to the spell damage bonuses or 5-piece bonuses, whereas the only set bonus applicable for cost reduction is seducer 5-piece (soon, at least).

So the Breton racial is more bang for the buck in the sense of opportunity cost. Also, the regen percentage requires you to have a significant base regeneration for it to become effective, while cost reduction has the same value no matter how much you stack of the different bonuses.

Cost reduction is also immediately helpful, whereas regeneration always has a time component. Cost reduction may allow you to immediately squeeze out that last crystal frag that kills your opponent, whereas regeneration requires you to wait until you have regained the magicka before you can cast, thus giving the opponent the "first last shot" option.

As I said, it's a matter of taste and preference. Similar to drinks/food discussion, on all my stamina chars I use drink over food, going for regeneration over pool, but on the magicka chars I always go for food over drink, adding punch over sustain - which only works if you maximize cost reduction. Maybe that's just a quirk and not rationally explicable.

To add in another completely separate option: I am very happy with my imperial magicka templar... those passives completely remove the care for stamina and health pool, so I can concentrate on spell damage and magicka pool with itemization and buffs...

Alucardo · August 2015

I think it's safe to say that Altmer or Breton will suffice, so now it's down to your own personal choice. I went with Breton initially because they looked better.. but if you're going Templar primarily as a healer, I'd recommend Breton hands down. They get increased spell resistance - stack that with Harness Magicka and CPs then drink up spells being fired at you. Being able to keep yourself alive will make you a far more valuable healer. You're no good when you're dead.
I chose Breton myself, so to get that extra spell power and mana regen I roll with seducer set and 2 piece torug's pact with dual daggers. Been doing that since level 45 (VR1 now) and I've never ran into dps or magicka resource issues. I will always choose Breton for my magicka based characters, no matter their role.

Flaminir · August 2015

MrGrimey wrote: »

3% cost reduction is not even close to as good as 9% magicka regen... Just take a look at how many champ points it takes to reach 3% cost reduction and how many it takes to get 9% regen.

Also increased regen stacks with gear and potion stats where cost reuction does not

It may be worth you having a look at the various threads on cost reduction Vs regen where it has unanimously been proven that cost reduction is significantly stronger than regen.

Cost reduction is FAR superior.

To give you a simplified example:

You have 800 magicka regen. With an Altmer you get 9% increased regen each tick (happens every 2 seconds) so you gain 72 magicka extra every 2 seconds.

In 2 seconds you may normally fire off say 3 spells.... lets say those spells cost an average of 2k each... SO 3% cost reduction saves you 180 magicka.

These are obviously fairly rough, but also realistic approximations, so you can see that the cost reduction of a Breton is more than twice as effective as the regen passive of an Altmer.

The other passives you can debate depending on build etc... but cost reduction always top trumps regen. And most builds don't run sets that include cost reduction.. regen on the other hand is very very common in many sets, and also can be buffed by everything from potions, to drinks, to mundus stones.

Springt-Über-Zwerge · August 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Breton for endgame looks.

Altmer for endgame dps.

Altmer 9% regen is more effective than Breton 3% cost reduction. It's not a matter of "taste". Just compare CP Magician with Arcanist and there's your answer.

Also the way recovery % can be stacked and increased with gear, drinks and stats, makes it stronger. While your percentage in cost redaction only improves by jewellery enchants.

Elemental Talent still boosts skill like Sun Fire(getting buffed next patch), Destruction staff light/heavy attack and Meteor ulti. It's not a waste.

At least Breton Spell Resistance, is going to be really useful again, now that nirn is getting fixed. So overall it's a great choice to.

But I personally prefer Dunmer for the extra stamina pool and the fire resist. Goes well with vampire magicka templar in PvP. Magicka templar also need all the stamina they can get, especially now when every single feature ability is going to come with a cost penalty.

I would not take the cp system for a proof to your argument since zos has no clue how their game works. Cost reduction is better if you use a lot of skills in a short time. Lest say you use a skill every second. Regen ticks all 2 seconds so the 9% more regen suddenly is not that valuable anymore.

The % of cost reduction is a fix % and cant be increased because the value depends on the skillkosts.

Thats true but most templar dps is still magic and if you play with dw for max spelldmg like I do it's just valuable for meteor and sun fire(which I dont use too)

Thats true too although bretons had the biggest benefit of nirn items.

The breton spell resist actually mitigates more firedmg than the dunmer fire resist

For stamina management on magicka templers use engine guarding + repentance combi. The engine counts as corpse so you get 5k aditional stamina and health with every proc of the set for free

Flaminir · August 2015

Also thinking about it even more from my example above.... the OP stated it was for a DPS build... so spamming lots of skills... and will be stacking a lot of magicka to make the DPS higher.

The trade off of that is lower regen.

This makes the Bretons spell cost reduction even more powerful, as 9% of a low number is low. also the value of the cost reduction will be even further enhanced by this type of build due to the high number of skills being cast in a short time where as the regen remains consistent (& low).

Leandor · August 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

Also thinking about it even more from my example above.... the OP stated it was for a DPS build... so spamming lots of skills... and will be stacking a lot of magicka to make the DPS higher.

I agree with you, but this specific part in combination with your previous post arithmagics (I just had to steal that expression, it's fantastic), is slightly different for templar. Since the main damage ability is jabs, which is a channeled ability that takes a couple seconds to complete and can't be clipped, cost reduction for this is actually more in line with the regeneration ability if it comes to magicka numbers.

Flaminir · August 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Also thinking about it even more from my example above.... the OP stated it was for a DPS build... so spamming lots of skills... and will be stacking a lot of magicka to make the DPS higher.

I agree with you, but this specific part in combination with your previous post arithmagics (I just had to steal that expression, it's fantastic), is slightly different for templar. Since the main damage ability is jabs, which is a channeled ability that takes a couple seconds to complete and can't be clipped, cost reduction for this is actually more in line with the regeneration ability if it comes to magicka numbers.

Even if you were to cast nothing but jabs (Which would never be the case... always other skills to get into a rotation at some stage) You'd still cast jabs twice within a normal 2 second window.... so without me looking at the exact cost of that (Around 2.5k p/cast off the top of my head at base), the cost reduction would still out perform the regen passive significantly.

And then amplify this across an entire fight, rather than just a couple of seconds and the benefit is substantial.... at least twice as effective

Leandor · August 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Also thinking about it even more from my example above.... the OP stated it was for a DPS build... so spamming lots of skills... and will be stacking a lot of magicka to make the DPS higher.

I agree with you, but this specific part in combination with your previous post arithmagics (I just had to steal that expression, it's fantastic), is slightly different for templar. Since the main damage ability is jabs, which is a channeled ability that takes a couple seconds to complete and can't be clipped, cost reduction for this is actually more in line with the regeneration ability if it comes to magicka numbers.

Even if you were to cast nothing but jabs (Which would never be the case... always other skills to get into a rotation at some stage) You'd still cast jabs twice within a normal 2 second window.... so without me looking at the exact cost of that (Around 2.5k p/cast off the top of my head at base), the cost reduction would still out perform the regen passive significantly.

And then amplify this across an entire fight, rather than just a couple of seconds and the benefit is substantial.... at least twice as effective

Then my sense of time is skewed... I was almost sure that channel time for jabs is in the range of two seconds.

Never mind my last comment, was based on wrong assumptions...

Flaminir · August 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Also thinking about it even more from my example above.... the OP stated it was for a DPS build... so spamming lots of skills... and will be stacking a lot of magicka to make the DPS higher.

I agree with you, but this specific part in combination with your previous post arithmagics (I just had to steal that expression, it's fantastic), is slightly different for templar. Since the main damage ability is jabs, which is a channeled ability that takes a couple seconds to complete and can't be clipped, cost reduction for this is actually more in line with the regeneration ability if it comes to magicka numbers.

Even if you were to cast nothing but jabs (Which would never be the case... always other skills to get into a rotation at some stage) You'd still cast jabs twice within a normal 2 second window.... so without me looking at the exact cost of that (Around 2.5k p/cast off the top of my head at base), the cost reduction would still out perform the regen passive significantly.

And then amplify this across an entire fight, rather than just a couple of seconds and the benefit is substantial.... at least twice as effective

Then my sense of time is skewed... I was almost sure that channel time for jabs is in the range of two seconds.

Never mind my last comment, was based on wrong assumptions...

You're pretty close i think.

Tooltip time is 1.1 seconds.

So in an average 2 second window you'd normally get a couple of casts in..... but across a full fight it would still make the cost reduction passive stronger due to the cost of the spell.