Are Champion Points ruining PVP?

Dru1076 · August 2015

Yes

Justice31st wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

You guys just wont let up will you?

I have been playing games since childhood. My skill and experience as a player is probably considerably greater than most people because I am also a musician which gives me great timing.

When I say casual gamer, you seem to think lazy and uninterested gamer. I am only refering to the tine I can actually play. Your argument, @starkerealm is so totally flawed it isn't even funny. If hardcores are already so much better than me at playing games, which I assure you mate they are not, then why would they need any added advantage?

And no @TheBull , I don't see myself as ever kicking ass...because I want th other guy to put up a good fight. There is no honour in fighting a weaker opponent. But on the same note, I would like to have an equal footing.

Lets just agree to disagree like adults. You can do that can't you?

So you are saying since you played Ultima online like me and FPS games such as Wolfenstein 3D, and rolled with the dz clan in Quake 2 online you have set of particular skills than puts you beyond the rest when it comes to gaming experience? So it must be the champion points that gives the distinct disadvantages, not the individual required skillz?

Not at all. Because I never played Ultima Online. But I have played ESO for seven months or so pretty solid and honestly...ita not rocket science.

starkerealm · August 2015

No

Justice31st wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

You guys just wont let up will you?

I have been playing games since childhood. My skill and experience as a player is probably considerably greater than most people because I am also a musician which gives me great timing.

When I say casual gamer, you seem to think lazy and uninterested gamer. I am only refering to the tine I can actually play. Your argument, @starkerealm is so totally flawed it isn't even funny. If hardcores are already so much better than me at playing games, which I assure you mate they are not, then why would they need any added advantage?

And no @TheBull , I don't see myself as ever kicking ass...because I want th other guy to put up a good fight. There is no honour in fighting a weaker opponent. But on the same note, I would like to have an equal footing.

Lets just agree to disagree like adults. You can do that can't you?

So you are saying since you played Ultima online like me and FPS games such as Wolfenstein 3D, and rolled with the dz clan in Quake 2 online you have set of particular skills than puts you beyond the rest when it comes to gaming experience? So it must be the champion points that gives the distinct disadvantages, not the individual required skillz?

I've got to say, my Dark Forces skills are not helping me here.

starkerealm · August 2015

No

Dru1076 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

You guys just wont let up will you?

I have been playing games since childhood. My skill and experience as a player is probably considerably greater than most people because I am also a musician which gives me great timing.

When I say casual gamer, you seem to think lazy and uninterested gamer. I am only refering to the tine I can actually play. Your argument, @starkerealm is so totally flawed it isn't even funny. If hardcores are already so much better than me at playing games, which I assure you mate they are not, then why would they need any added advantage?

And no @TheBull , I don't see myself as ever kicking ass...because I want th other guy to put up a good fight. There is no honour in fighting a weaker opponent. But on the same note, I would like to have an equal footing.

Lets just agree to disagree like adults. You can do that can't you?

So you are saying since you played Ultima online like me and FPS games such as Wolfenstein 3D, and rolled with the dz clan in Quake 2 online you have set of particular skills than puts you beyond the rest when it comes to gaming experience? So it must be the champion points that gives the distinct disadvantages, not the individual required skillz?

Not at all. Because I never played Ultima Online. But I have played ESO for seven months or so pretty solid and honestly...ita not rocket science.

For PvE that's probably good enough. For PvP, you're in the range where you can deal with someone who's been doing PvP for about seven months (if all of that time was in Cyrodiil), if you're wanting to go up against someone who's been doing PvP from day one, and lived through the Batswarm Emperors, then you're less experienced then they are, and that's a distinct disadvantage that a few hundred CP won't overcome.

Ch4mpTW · August 2015

Yes

Lol, this question made me smile and made my day. I mean, I understand that we are all entitled to an opinion. But, I think a lot of the people saying, "No." are saying it due to the fact that they are usually the ones with high amounts of champion points. And are trying to keep things the way that they are, so they can continue to gain AP (which I could understand). But that aside, how could you say that it isn't? Someone with ~900+ champion points, fighting someone with none. Or perhaps only 5 or so. C'mon now.

Dru1076 · August 2015

Yes

starkerealm wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

You guys just wont let up will you?

I have been playing games since childhood. My skill and experience as a player is probably considerably greater than most people because I am also a musician which gives me great timing.

When I say casual gamer, you seem to think lazy and uninterested gamer. I am only refering to the tine I can actually play. Your argument, @starkerealm is so totally flawed it isn't even funny. If hardcores are already so much better than me at playing games, which I assure you mate they are not, then why would they need any added advantage?

And no @TheBull , I don't see myself as ever kicking ass...because I want th other guy to put up a good fight. There is no honour in fighting a weaker opponent. But on the same note, I would like to have an equal footing.

Lets just agree to disagree like adults. You can do that can't you?

So you are saying since you played Ultima online like me and FPS games such as Wolfenstein 3D, and rolled with the dz clan in Quake 2 online you have set of particular skills than puts you beyond the rest when it comes to gaming experience? So it must be the champion points that gives the distinct disadvantages, not the individual required skillz?

Not at all. Because I never played Ultima Online. But I have played ESO for seven months or so pretty solid and honestly...ita not rocket science.

For PvE that's probably good enough. For PvP, you're in the range where you can deal with someone who's been doing PvP for about seven months (if all of that time was in Cyrodiil), if you're wanting to go up against someone who's been doing PvP from day one, and lived through the Batswarm Emperors, then you're less experienced then they are, and that's a distinct disadvantage that a few hundred CP won't overcome.

It's been fun, dude.... But this is just going nowhere.

The point is cp's do create power gaps, no matter what you say. The solution is in the works. I have no problem with taking on more "experienced" pvpers. If you think I can't learn to play in a very short time, especially given the multitude of very good player guides out there, then you clearly don't know me very well.

Clearly you can't agree to disagree like an adult, but I can. Now stop giving me a hard time. I simply don't agree with your statements either about the impact of cp's or my lack of ability. There's really nothing more to discuss here.

starkerealm · August 2015

No

Dru1076 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

You guys just wont let up will you?

I have been playing games since childhood. My skill and experience as a player is probably considerably greater than most people because I am also a musician which gives me great timing.

When I say casual gamer, you seem to think lazy and uninterested gamer. I am only refering to the tine I can actually play. Your argument, @starkerealm is so totally flawed it isn't even funny. If hardcores are already so much better than me at playing games, which I assure you mate they are not, then why would they need any added advantage?

And no @TheBull , I don't see myself as ever kicking ass...because I want th other guy to put up a good fight. There is no honour in fighting a weaker opponent. But on the same note, I would like to have an equal footing.

Lets just agree to disagree like adults. You can do that can't you?

So you are saying since you played Ultima online like me and FPS games such as Wolfenstein 3D, and rolled with the dz clan in Quake 2 online you have set of particular skills than puts you beyond the rest when it comes to gaming experience? So it must be the champion points that gives the distinct disadvantages, not the individual required skillz?

Not at all. Because I never played Ultima Online. But I have played ESO for seven months or so pretty solid and honestly...ita not rocket science.

For PvE that's probably good enough. For PvP, you're in the range where you can deal with someone who's been doing PvP for about seven months (if all of that time was in Cyrodiil), if you're wanting to go up against someone who's been doing PvP from day one, and lived through the Batswarm Emperors, then you're less experienced then they are, and that's a distinct disadvantage that a few hundred CP won't overcome.

It's been fun, dude.... But this is just going nowhere.

The point is cp's do create power gaps, no matter what you say. The solution is in the works. I have no problem with taking on more "experienced" pvpers. If you think I can't learn to play in a very short time, especially given the multitude of very good player guides out there, then you clearly don't know me very well.

Clearly you can't agree to disagree like an adult, but I can. Now stop giving me a hard time. I simply don't agree with your statements either about the impact of cp's or my lack of ability. There's really nothing more to discuss here.

So you feel you're innately able to become more skilled at someone than anyone else... Unless they have CP, and then it's insurmountable. Because reading a guide is exactly as valuable as practice.

Right. Yeah. Have fun with that. I can tell you now, the non-CP campaigns will not solve anything.

Ch4mpTW · August 2015

Yes

starkerealm wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

You guys just wont let up will you?

I have been playing games since childhood. My skill and experience as a player is probably considerably greater than most people because I am also a musician which gives me great timing.

When I say casual gamer, you seem to think lazy and uninterested gamer. I am only refering to the tine I can actually play. Your argument, @starkerealm is so totally flawed it isn't even funny. If hardcores are already so much better than me at playing games, which I assure you mate they are not, then why would they need any added advantage?

And no @TheBull , I don't see myself as ever kicking ass...because I want th other guy to put up a good fight. There is no honour in fighting a weaker opponent. But on the same note, I would like to have an equal footing.

Lets just agree to disagree like adults. You can do that can't you?

So you are saying since you played Ultima online like me and FPS games such as Wolfenstein 3D, and rolled with the dz clan in Quake 2 online you have set of particular skills than puts you beyond the rest when it comes to gaming experience? So it must be the champion points that gives the distinct disadvantages, not the individual required skillz?

Not at all. Because I never played Ultima Online. But I have played ESO for seven months or so pretty solid and honestly...ita not rocket science.

For PvE that's probably good enough. For PvP, you're in the range where you can deal with someone who's been doing PvP for about seven months (if all of that time was in Cyrodiil), if you're wanting to go up against someone who's been doing PvP from day one, and lived through the Batswarm Emperors, then you're less experienced then they are, and that's a distinct disadvantage that a few hundred CP won't overcome.

It's been fun, dude.... But this is just going nowhere.

The point is cp's do create power gaps, no matter what you say. The solution is in the works. I have no problem with taking on more "experienced" pvpers. If you think I can't learn to play in a very short time, especially given the multitude of very good player guides out there, then you clearly don't know me very well.

Clearly you can't agree to disagree like an adult, but I can. Now stop giving me a hard time. I simply don't agree with your statements either about the impact of cp's or my lack of ability. There's really nothing more to discuss here.

So you feel you're innately able to become more skilled at someone than anyone else... Unless they have CP, and then it's insurmountable. Because reading a guide is exactly as valuable as practice.

Right. Yeah. Have fun with that. I can tell you now, the non-CP campaigns will not solve anything.

The non--CP campaigns will solve quite a few things, in my opinion. They'll solve the problem of people wanting to be able to experience PVP, but not with those utilizing champion points. Therefore, a solution to a given problem. Not to mention, it'll provide a sense of practice for those to test out how their builds are, before they go into say a champion point-based campaign.

FriedEggSandwich · August 2015

No

No cos I have less than most and still really enjoy pvp

leepalmer95 · August 2015

Yes

Dru1076 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Um...the population, my clever friend, in IC is based on your campaign pop. So I would go to IC and get them the same as anyone else. The power level of V16 is not a shifting target like the average cp score so I would get there in the end and in a fairly reasonable time. Cp points shift the goals constantly and are IMPOSSIBLE for me to close the gap at a reasonable rate.

That's actually where you're completely wrong. Ever actually look at the CP systems? I mean, have you unlocked them yet?

If you have, you might have noticed something, but not realized the full implication. When you take your first point in, say, Thaumaturgy, that's +1% damage to all magicka based attacks (basically).

So, each star goes to 100 points, but, Thaumaturgy only increases to +25%.

Now, if you're asking yourself, "how does that work," the answer is fairly simple. Diminishing returns. You first 10 points in a star will give you roughly 20% of it's final value. (This doesn't hold exactly true, the +13% stars will give you 4% at 10 points, but the basic idea is sound.)

So, if you've got 10 points in Thaumaturgy, you're getting +5% to your magicka damage, but what about someone with 20 points? They're only getting about 8.4% up. Twice your rank in that star, but they're nowhere near twice as powerful. At 30 (so, three times your rank) and they've finally doubled your current stat, at around 10.8% (again, if I'm remembering that number right. 30 points might actually be 11.2% on that star.)

There are diminishing returns. They might not be as steep as I'd like. But it does mean, once you've hit around 300cp, you're going to have "most" of what the system has unlocked for you. It's not really a sliding scale beyond that, it's grinding for minute improvements that you couldn't identify without studying your character sheet closely.

Hell, I'm already at the point where I need to type in stat value on my laptop, apply the CP, and then double check to see if the change was even noticeable, and I'm not a CP grinder.

Really at 90 you're well on your way. 300 is if you want to do everything on the list, basically.

Now, it is there to grind out forever, but that's the point. If you're a CR90, you're not dying to a CR200 because their champion points are so much more powerful, that one comes down to the player's skill.

Dru1076 wrote: »

Next pointless question? And here's one from me...what exactly are trying to prove here? You are not helping anyone....or is this one of those hilarious troll posts?

That should be obvious. You're imagining the Champion System is way more awesome than it actually is.

Also, in case you missed it, the V16 gear was actually designed to be a long, arduous grind. As in, that's the intention. You can say, "well, the community is creative," and that's true. But, at the same time, getting V16 gear will be a considerable time investment.

And, here's the kicker. The raw stat advantages from being in V16 gear (gold, in a coherent set) will be greater than the first ~90cp you earn.

Beyond that, as a casual player you will always be at a severe disadvantage to a hardcore players. Even if those players are on an alt account and can't bring their CP and other tangible advantages with them, they still have a better grasp of the game, and more practice.

You can say you'll get organized, and roll together, but you'll still be inexperience as players when dealing with live opponents. And in PvP that (along with a lot of hard core crunching we don't get to see on the forums) is what governs the victors.

And, for what it's worth, normal Tel Var gain rates are tuned to be about 1k per hour. Which makes those PvP sourced V16 sets look like a lot more work. At least to me. So, in saying, "well, I'll just go into the IC and grind for a bit" you're actually talking about grinding times that are roughly equivalent with getting 120 CR. With the added bonus that Tel Var progression can actually be taken from you by an opponent.

I have heard all this before. I still don't see any point to what your saying here. The champion point system creates insurmountable gaps for a lot of people. The cp free campaigns are already in the works. This is an entirely pointless conversation. But please...do continue. The insistance of guys like you that cp's don't make any difference amuses me to no end.

Just ignore stark realm, had the conversation with him a few days ago, has has 70 cp, 50 of which he got when 1.6 hit so he's gotten 20 cp in 3 months, he doesn't play vet pvp so of course he doesn't know the cp gap problem. Also despite being a pc player he apparently is console players expert despite never playing the game.

He's pretty much defending a system he hasn't even begun to unlock ^^

But anyway a simple solution is the cp problem is to just simply make a catch up system, also increase the max enlightenment stack to 60 or something for players who take a break.

dday3six · August 2015

No

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

You guys just wont let up will you?

I have been playing games since childhood. My skill and experience as a player is probably considerably greater than most people because I am also a musician which gives me great timing.

When I say casual gamer, you seem to think lazy and uninterested gamer. I am only refering to the tine I can actually play. Your argument, @starkerealm is so totally flawed it isn't even funny. If hardcores are already so much better than me at playing games, which I assure you mate they are not, then why would they need any added advantage?

And no @TheBull , I don't see myself as ever kicking ass...because I want th other guy to put up a good fight. There is no honour in fighting a weaker opponent. But on the same note, I would like to have an equal footing.

Lets just agree to disagree like adults. You can do that can't you?

So you are saying since you played Ultima online like me and FPS games such as Wolfenstein 3D, and rolled with the dz clan in Quake 2 online you have set of particular skills than puts you beyond the rest when it comes to gaming experience? So it must be the champion points that gives the distinct disadvantages, not the individual required skillz?

Not at all. Because I never played Ultima Online. But I have played ESO for seven months or so pretty solid and honestly...ita not rocket science.

For PvE that's probably good enough. For PvP, you're in the range where you can deal with someone who's been doing PvP for about seven months (if all of that time was in Cyrodiil), if you're wanting to go up against someone who's been doing PvP from day one, and lived through the Batswarm Emperors, then you're less experienced then they are, and that's a distinct disadvantage that a few hundred CP won't overcome.

It's been fun, dude.... But this is just going nowhere.

The point is cp's do create power gaps, no matter what you say. The solution is in the works. I have no problem with taking on more "experienced" pvpers. If you think I can't learn to play in a very short time, especially given the multitude of very good player guides out there, then you clearly don't know me very well.

Clearly you can't agree to disagree like an adult, but I can. Now stop giving me a hard time. I simply don't agree with your statements either about the impact of cp's or my lack of ability. There's really nothing more to discuss here.

So you feel you're innately able to become more skilled at someone than anyone else... Unless they have CP, and then it's insurmountable. Because reading a guide is exactly as valuable as practice.

Right. Yeah. Have fun with that. I can tell you now, the non-CP campaigns will not solve anything.

The non--CP campaigns will solve quite a few things, in my opinion. They'll solve the problem of people wanting to be able to experience PVP, but not with those utilizing champion points. Therefore, a solution to a given problem. Not to mention, it'll provide a sense of practice for those to test out how their builds are, before they go into say a champion point-based campaign.

Even without CP a player using a fully optimized build, with all legendary gear is going to have a large stat advantage over those players who don't. That's the part that CP free campaigns don't solve. Players will still complain about how max/min gear grinders, with a lot of free time, are able to beat them with no skill involved because they have more stats. They will just be trading one focal point for another.

starkerealm · August 2015

No

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just ignore stark realm, had the conversation with him a few days ago, has has 70 cp, 50 of which he got when 1.6 hit so he's gotten 20 cp in 3 months, he doesn't play vet pvp so of course he doesn't know the cp gap problem. Also despite being a pc player he apparently is console players expert despite never playing the game.

He's pretty much defending a system he hasn't even begun to unlock ^^

But anyway a simple solution is the cp problem is to just simply make a catch up system, also increase the max enlightenment stack to 60 or something for players who take a break.

No, I have over 100, and spent a lot of time messing around with it on PTS, which is why I know a lot of the values off the top of my head.

The only 70 I can think of is the maximum number of CP a player could have started with during the 1.6 conversion. Which, if you'd actually read my posts, you'd know. I converted over with ~50 or so. It might have actually been 48. But, you'd know that if you'd read my posts. Which, you obviously haven't.

Dru1076 · August 2015

Yes

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Um...the population, my clever friend, in IC is based on your campaign pop. So I would go to IC and get them the same as anyone else. The power level of V16 is not a shifting target like the average cp score so I would get there in the end and in a fairly reasonable time. Cp points shift the goals constantly and are IMPOSSIBLE for me to close the gap at a reasonable rate.

That's actually where you're completely wrong. Ever actually look at the CP systems? I mean, have you unlocked them yet?

If you have, you might have noticed something, but not realized the full implication. When you take your first point in, say, Thaumaturgy, that's +1% damage to all magicka based attacks (basically).

So, each star goes to 100 points, but, Thaumaturgy only increases to +25%.

Now, if you're asking yourself, "how does that work," the answer is fairly simple. Diminishing returns. You first 10 points in a star will give you roughly 20% of it's final value. (This doesn't hold exactly true, the +13% stars will give you 4% at 10 points, but the basic idea is sound.)

So, if you've got 10 points in Thaumaturgy, you're getting +5% to your magicka damage, but what about someone with 20 points? They're only getting about 8.4% up. Twice your rank in that star, but they're nowhere near twice as powerful. At 30 (so, three times your rank) and they've finally doubled your current stat, at around 10.8% (again, if I'm remembering that number right. 30 points might actually be 11.2% on that star.)

There are diminishing returns. They might not be as steep as I'd like. But it does mean, once you've hit around 300cp, you're going to have "most" of what the system has unlocked for you. It's not really a sliding scale beyond that, it's grinding for minute improvements that you couldn't identify without studying your character sheet closely.

Hell, I'm already at the point where I need to type in stat value on my laptop, apply the CP, and then double check to see if the change was even noticeable, and I'm not a CP grinder.

Really at 90 you're well on your way. 300 is if you want to do everything on the list, basically.

Now, it is there to grind out forever, but that's the point. If you're a CR90, you're not dying to a CR200 because their champion points are so much more powerful, that one comes down to the player's skill.

Dru1076 wrote: »

Next pointless question? And here's one from me...what exactly are trying to prove here? You are not helping anyone....or is this one of those hilarious troll posts?

That should be obvious. You're imagining the Champion System is way more awesome than it actually is.

Also, in case you missed it, the V16 gear was actually designed to be a long, arduous grind. As in, that's the intention. You can say, "well, the community is creative," and that's true. But, at the same time, getting V16 gear will be a considerable time investment.

And, here's the kicker. The raw stat advantages from being in V16 gear (gold, in a coherent set) will be greater than the first ~90cp you earn.

Beyond that, as a casual player you will always be at a severe disadvantage to a hardcore players. Even if those players are on an alt account and can't bring their CP and other tangible advantages with them, they still have a better grasp of the game, and more practice.

You can say you'll get organized, and roll together, but you'll still be inexperience as players when dealing with live opponents. And in PvP that (along with a lot of hard core crunching we don't get to see on the forums) is what governs the victors.

And, for what it's worth, normal Tel Var gain rates are tuned to be about 1k per hour. Which makes those PvP sourced V16 sets look like a lot more work. At least to me. So, in saying, "well, I'll just go into the IC and grind for a bit" you're actually talking about grinding times that are roughly equivalent with getting 120 CR. With the added bonus that Tel Var progression can actually be taken from you by an opponent.

I have heard all this before. I still don't see any point to what your saying here. The champion point system creates insurmountable gaps for a lot of people. The cp free campaigns are already in the works. This is an entirely pointless conversation. But please...do continue. The insistance of guys like you that cp's don't make any difference amuses me to no end.

Just ignore stark realm, had the conversation with him a few days ago, has has 70 cp, 50 of which he got when 1.6 hit so he's gotten 20 cp in 3 months, he doesn't play vet pvp so of course he doesn't know the cp gap problem. Also despite being a pc player he apparently is console players expert despite never playing the game.

He's pretty much defending a system he hasn't even begun to unlock ^^

But anyway a simple solution is the cp problem is to just simply make a catch up system, also increase the max enlightenment stack to 60 or something for players who take a break.

Really good advice.

At the end of the day, this is just a game and not worth these sorts of discussions. Going round and round the same points endlessly just leaves everyone blue in the face and no better for the effort. One thing I have learnt is that it's okay to stalk and troll as long as you disguise it cleverly.

The solution to the champion point problem is on the way, lets just hope not to many of these silly arguments get anyone banned between now and then.

starkerealm · August 2015

No

Dru1076 wrote: »

The solution to the champion point problem is on the way, lets just hope not to many of these silly arguments get anyone banned between now and then.

And, I can tell you already, it's not going to solve anything, because CP isn't the problem.

Dru1076 · August 2015

Yes

Sorry @starkerealm ... I am not interested enough anymore to unignore you to see your post. I was out of line with my blah blah blah post earlier, and I admit I did lose my cool with you. My sincere apologies. But you have turned the discussion into an attack on my ability to play, which was really unnecessary and I hope you understand how insulting your statements were.

The cp problem has a solution in the works, and let me say I hope it comes sooner rather than later...becquse these threads get uglier every time.

Sausage · August 2015

No

VR is way bigger issue than CP, its just forum trolls jumped on CP for some reason. Theres massive different between vr1 with green gears to vr14 with legendary gears.

leepalmer95 · August 2015

Yes

Sausage wrote: »

VR is way bigger issue than CP, its just forum trolls jumped on CP for some reason. Theres massive different between vr1 with green gears to vr14 with legendary gears.

Thats called progression, if gear had no affect in pvp then a lot of people wouldn't bother with it at all.

A main problem is that people are so used to non vet pvp that they don't bother with gear and such and usually have no knowledge that when they hit vet there gear will play a major part. If people knew this then maybe they would level there crafting with there levels and as soon as they hit vet, re-skill, re-stat, find a build a crafting some basic blue gear makes so much difference.

I can kill v14's on my v5, my v5 has random jewellery (until i hit 6) and magnus + torug's pact sets.

Now he may not be on the level on a legendary set of v14 armour but with these sets he's not that far off.

Sausage · August 2015

No

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

VR is way bigger issue than CP, its just forum trolls jumped on CP for some reason. Theres massive different between vr1 with green gears to vr14 with legendary gears.

Thats called progression, if gear had no affect in pvp then a lot of people wouldn't bother with it at all.

A main problem is that people are so used to non vet pvp that they don't bother with gear and such and usually have no knowledge that when they hit vet there gear will play a major part. If people knew this then maybe they would level there crafting with there levels and as soon as they hit vet, re-skill, re-stat, find a build a crafting some basic blue gear makes so much difference.

I can kill v14's on my v5, my v5 has random jewellery (until i hit 6) and magnus + torug's pact sets.

Now he may not be on the level on a legendary set of v14 armour but with these sets he's not that far off.

People dont grind vrs because of gears they grind them because they want to get to vr14.

I want to add to my own post, one problem is also, theres huge variety of gears too, some use bad gears and some good ones. CP is currently the hate-ball, every damn troll jumped on it.

Its funny how CP out of sudden created all these problems what we have alot earlier.

Dru1076 · August 2015

Yes

Sausage wrote: »

VR is way bigger issue than CP, its just forum trolls jumped on CP for some reason. Theres massive different between vr1 with green gears to vr14 with legendary gears.

Cool. I am a forum troll now? This day just keeps getting better

VR ranks are capped, and therefore even a casual can get there over time. Cp's on the other hand are capped so high as to make the cap irrelevant. CP's are more of a concern to people who cant grind them, because those who can are constantly increasing the gap. What is so hard to understand about that?

Anyway...i am going to stop "trolling" about this because cp free campaigns are coming, and there's no point. Anyone tired of hearing about this should ask Zos to hurry those cp free campaigns along, because that will cure this ill.

Sausage · August 2015

No

Dru1076 wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

VR is way bigger issue than CP, its just forum trolls jumped on CP for some reason. Theres massive different between vr1 with green gears to vr14 with legendary gears.

Cool. I am a forum troll now? This day just keeps getting better

VR ranks are capped, and therefore even a casual can get there over time. Cp's on the other hand are capped so high as to make the cap irrelevant. CP's are more of a concern to people who cant grind them, because those who can are constantly increasing the gap. What is so hard to understand about that?

Anyway...i am going to stop "trolling" about this because cp free campaigns are coming, and there's no point. Anyone tired of hearing about this should ask Zos to hurry those cp free campaigns along, because that will cure this ill.

Wow I didnt even reply to you.

Thats my opinion. Current forum state is just bad, PVErs are pissed off because of IC, console players are tired of chatlessness, not to mention LFG-finder, what does not work, console players are probably getting bored after 2 month of playing. Maybe its just me but CP is taking a lot of hate atm.

Leandor · August 2015

No

Very perfect. Much result.

81:82 votes (at this time).

Olivierko · August 2015

No

With the upcoming changes to "ketchup-effect" point gaining etc CP's will most likely be obsolete since everyone will more or less be at the same level.

Basically this means that there won't be much of a character advancement in place, whether you like it or not.

Dru1076 · August 2015

Yes

Sausage wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

VR is way bigger issue than CP, its just forum trolls jumped on CP for some reason. Theres massive different between vr1 with green gears to vr14 with legendary gears.

Cool. I am a forum troll now? This day just keeps getting better

VR ranks are capped, and therefore even a casual can get there over time. Cp's on the other hand are capped so high as to make the cap irrelevant. CP's are more of a concern to people who cant grind them, because those who can are constantly increasing the gap. What is so hard to understand about that?

Anyway...i am going to stop "trolling" about this because cp free campaigns are coming, and there's no point. Anyone tired of hearing about this should ask Zos to hurry those cp free campaigns along, because that will cure this ill.

Wow I didnt even reply to you.

Thats my opinion. Current forum state is just bad, PVErs are pissed off because of IC, console players are tired of chatlessness, not to mention LFG-finder, what does not work, console players are probably getting bored after 2 month of playing. Maybe its just me but CP is taking a lot of hate atm.

Sorry @Sausage . I'm being a bit defensive....guilty conscious? Maybe...

I actually agree that the cp system is important, and has many benefits to the game...and it should and will stay as is. But for some it really is an important issue that greatly affects gameplay.

Asmael · August 2015

Aww, they're ruining the balance! That was 82/82 just a second ago!

Just... add a way to see the CP in the API, so that we can see an opponent's CP.

I'd probably be more in a favor of "yes", since CP gives moar incentive to mindless grinding over actual PvP & l33t SkillZ, but the satisfaction of killing CP farmers (hint: 35k HP in non-vet without +max health buff) is worth many things.

starkerealm · August 2015

No

Sausage wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

VR is way bigger issue than CP, its just forum trolls jumped on CP for some reason. Theres massive different between vr1 with green gears to vr14 with legendary gears.

Cool. I am a forum troll now? This day just keeps getting better

VR ranks are capped, and therefore even a casual can get there over time. Cp's on the other hand are capped so high as to make the cap irrelevant. CP's are more of a concern to people who cant grind them, because those who can are constantly increasing the gap. What is so hard to understand about that?

Anyway...i am going to stop "trolling" about this because cp free campaigns are coming, and there's no point. Anyone tired of hearing about this should ask Zos to hurry those cp free campaigns along, because that will cure this ill.

Wow I didnt even reply to you.

Thats my opinion. Current forum state is just bad, PVErs are pissed off because of IC, console players are tired of chatlessness, not to mention LFG-finder, what does not work, console players are probably getting bored after 2 month of playing. Maybe its just me but CP is taking a lot of hate atm.

People are blindly using CP as their scapegoat for everything at the moment. I mean, six months ago it was the unkillable VR14s in their gold gear, before that it was the vampire Sorcs with their Batswarm spam. It's always something. Right now, you've got a lot of people that got smeared by gankers, and rather than accepting blame, are looking for someone other than themselves to blame.

starkerealm · August 2015

No

Asmael wrote: »

Just... add a way to see the CP in the API, so that we can see an opponent's CP.

Honestly, being able to see a player's Champion Rank wouldn't be the worst thing. I mean, it would promote more elitism, and screw over people trying to get into trials, but... they're doing that now anyway on much flimsier grounds.

Valn · August 2015

Yes

starkerealm wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

Just... add a way to see the CP in the API, so that we can see an opponent's CP.

Honestly, being able to see a player's Champion Rank wouldn't be the worst thing. I mean, it would promote more elitism, and screw over people trying to get into trials, but... they're doing that now anyway on much flimsier grounds.

What's wrong with elitism? Why would it screw over people going into trials?

olsborg · August 2015

Yes

In the current state of cp, yes it is ruining pvp. If they introduce their proposed cap (by season), no then it will not.

xxMcKev · August 2015

Yes

Those PC transfers would be on the same LvL if they pulled the Champion points. Than lets see them kill 5 to 10 ppl at once. Also the NightBlades are ruining PvP. Grow a set of balls and stop running like little girls

willymchilybily · August 2015

No

not for me, I'm just not very good at pvp, and low ranked veteran level so only using green and blue gear is likely having more effect than CP. That and lack of practice/experience, and being console, I doubt many that transfer accounts are so active on console and have a massive CP advantage that i see it. just veteran pvp is horrible for me at low Vr ranks is my guess

willymchilybily · August 2015

No

dday3six wrote: »

Dru1076 wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

By themselves CP aren't ruining PVP. Players use CP as a boogeyman catch-all to focus on, but if a player flat out refuses to make an effort to optimize their character, they cannot expect to keep up with players who do. CP needs a seasonal cap, and should most likely not apply in non-vet campaigns. However a non-cp vet campaign is just going to be the hunting grounds of well geared, well organized players.

Thing is, a casual can get the gear, and get organised. What they cant do is keep up with the cp grind.

I don't think cp have ruined pvp for everyone. But it destroyed it for casuals like myself. But its just a cp free campaign or two away from a solution.

I am assuming by causal you mean someone who doesn't play much or doesn't have much time to play.

Yes they could get gear, however that is still a grind, maybe not comparable to CP, but it depends on either rng, or funds if it can be bought. I feel it disingenuous to say this grind is accessible, but this grind is not.

@dday3six
one grind is shorter and capped, the other is not.

once you have gear you have it, cp is capped at 3600, catch up currently relies on diminishing returns on effectiveness but with the passives on top true diminishing return wont happen till you have the 1080 CP required to get all the passives which is about half a year of grind or closer to a year if interspersed or less active. especially when the better passives are at the higher CP mile stones 30, 70 120 etc