Best Advice for people rolling Magicka NB's for IC

Eejit1331 · August 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

New magicka NBs are easy to kill so please come to IC and give me lots of Tel Var stones.

Good thing I'm not a new magicka night blade, but a pc transplant ready for you

remember... before stamina NB was OP, most if not all NB were magicka as back then, stamina builds for end game was not viable.

Ezareth · August 2015

Piercing Mark, Absorb Magick, Wrecking blow, massive healing ward nerf.

More magicka Nbs in IC please!

Eejit1331 · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Piercing Mark, Absorb Magick, Wrecking blow, massive healing ward nerf.

More magicka Nbs in IC please!

Lol... I know how to handle all of that. Been there, done that. We'll agree do disagree or argue and get the thread shut down. Good day to you!

Lava_Croft · August 2015

Bring me more of these fresh Nightblades please.

Ezareth · August 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Piercing Mark, Absorb Magick, Wrecking blow, massive healing ward nerf.

More magicka Nbs in IC please!

Lol... I know how to handle all of that. Been there, done that. We'll agree do disagree or argue and get the thread shut down. Good day to you!

Skill handles everything in the game.

We weren't talking about skill though...we were talking about AP farming tools ( =

Crown · August 2015

A lot of people seem to be missing the most significant counter to stealth: Caltrops.

I've been playing PTS quite a bit and just about every time I'm about to round a corner, a quick caltrops ensures that there's nothing hiding there. If there is, the half second of surprise means I get my rotation off first, and I have yet to find any class that lives more than 3.2 seconds unless blocking, or 4.6 seconds if it's a templar spamming breath.

Maulkin · August 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Bring me more of these fresh Nightblades please.

Well rolling new characters does come with an adaptation period, no doubt. Proficiency and automation do take a bit of time.

But those who can't adapt and be at least competent within a week or two were probably never that good on their main char anyway. Once I complete a week's worth of dueling on my NB and find a build I'm happy with, I don't think you'll find me such an easy adversary to run into in the streets of IC

Crown · August 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Proficiency and automation do take a bit of time.

The timing on animation cancelling and cool downs is well known and/or can be figured out by testing a series of macros (Razer Synapse comes to mind). For those who don't know, macros are essentially scripts that press buttons for you. The most common one is light attack weaving where a macro can be set to hit your left mouse button, then as quickly as possible use a skill, so you only have to hit one key (or button) to have the effect of two go off in the span of time you would normally get the one skill off (plus about 1/8th of a second).

You don't need skill to copy paste a macro from someone who knows what they're doing to get off killing damage in a few seconds. Some of us who have been playing magicka NBs for a long time have it in muscle memory (my average is 3.2 seconds for a good kill when ganking solo), though with a macro (tested with a friendly opponent who let me kill him a few times to confirm) the timing can be gotten down to about 2.9 seconds. The only person I've met with tighter timing on a magicka NB is @Araxleon -- though I've not seen him play in a while.

The top players tend not to like macros, as you're stuck in a combination, and how much fun is it to do the exact same thing over and over and over again..? There's no satisfaction in hitting one button and killing someone - at least not to me. There are however a lot of people who won't hesitate to use them..

EDIT: Typo on the word span.

Ezareth · August 2015

Crown wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Proficiency and automation do take a bit of time.

The timing on animation cancelling and cool downs is well known and/or can be figured out by testing a series of macros (Razer Synapse comes to mind). For those who don't know, macros are essentially scripts that press buttons for you. The most common one is light attack weaving where a macro can be set to hit your left mouse button, then as quickly as possible use a skill, so you only have to hit one key (or button) to have the effect of two go off in the span of time you would normally get the one skill off (plus about 1/8th of a second).

You don't need skill to copy paste a macro from someone who knows what they're doing to get off killing damage in a few seconds. Some of us who have been playing magicka NBs for a long time have it in muscle memory (my average is 3.2 seconds for a good kill when ganking solo), though with a macro (tested with a friendly opponent who let me kill him a few times to confirm) the timing can be gotten down to about 2.9 seconds. The only person I've met with tighter timing on a magicka NB is @Araxleon -- though I've not seen him play in a while.

The top players tend not to like macros, as you're stuck in a combination, and how much fun is it to do the exact same thing over and over and over again..? There's no satisfaction in hitting one button and killing someone - at least not to me. There are however a lot of people who won't hesitate to use them..

EDIT: Typo on the word span.

@Araxleon admitted to not even knowing how to Animation cancel. Using a Macro is a crutch and limits you more than it helps you while inhibiting the development of natural skill. I don't animation cancel light attacks either and do just fine (although I know how to do it).

Maulkin · August 2015

Crown wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Proficiency and automation do take a bit of time.

The timing on animation cancelling and cool downs is well known and/or can be figured out by testing a series of macros (Razer Synapse comes to mind). For those who don't know, macros are essentially scripts that press buttons for you. The most common one is light attack weaving where a macro can be set to hit your left mouse button, then as quickly as possible use a skill, so you only have to hit one key (or button) to have the effect of two go off in the span of time you would normally get the one skill off (plus about 1/8th of a second).

You don't need skill to copy paste a macro from someone who knows what they're doing to get off killing damage in a few seconds. Some of us who have been playing magicka NBs for a long time have it in muscle memory (my average is 3.2 seconds for a good kill when ganking solo), though with a macro (tested with a friendly opponent who let me kill him a few times to confirm) the timing can be gotten down to about 2.9 seconds. The only person I've met with tighter timing on a magicka NB is @Araxleon -- though I've not seen him play in a while.

The top players tend not to like macros, as you're stuck in a combination, and how much fun is it to do the exact same thing over and over and over again..? There's no satisfaction in hitting one button and killing someone - at least not to me. There are however a lot of people who won't hesitate to use them..

EDIT: Typo on the word span.

I'm not talking about animation canceling or macroing at all

I'm talking about automation in the sense of not having to think which buttons you need to press to do which action because it's all embedded in muscle memory.

Everyone who has played for a year and is not a complete casual knows how to animation cancel absolutely fine, I believe.

Araxleon · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Proficiency and automation do take a bit of time.

The timing on animation cancelling and cool downs is well known and/or can be figured out by testing a series of macros (Razer Synapse comes to mind). For those who don't know, macros are essentially scripts that press buttons for you. The most common one is light attack weaving where a macro can be set to hit your left mouse button, then as quickly as possible use a skill, so you only have to hit one key (or button) to have the effect of two go off in the span of time you would normally get the one skill off (plus about 1/8th of a second).

You don't need skill to copy paste a macro from someone who knows what they're doing to get off killing damage in a few seconds. Some of us who have been playing magicka NBs for a long time have it in muscle memory (my average is 3.2 seconds for a good kill when ganking solo), though with a macro (tested with a friendly opponent who let me kill him a few times to confirm) the timing can be gotten down to about 2.9 seconds. The only person I've met with tighter timing on a magicka NB is @Araxleon -- though I've not seen him play in a while.

The top players tend not to like macros, as you're stuck in a combination, and how much fun is it to do the exact same thing over and over and over again..? There's no satisfaction in hitting one button and killing someone - at least not to me. There are however a lot of people who won't hesitate to use them..

EDIT: Typo on the word span.

@Araxleon admitted to not even knowing how to Animation cancel. Using a Macro is a crutch and limits you more than it helps you while inhibiting the development of natural skill. I don't animation cancel light attacks either and do just fine (although I know how to do it).

Ezareth that button spam tho. LOL

lol I have tested with crown though, you can do it that fast its hard im combat.

Maulkin · August 2015

Crown wrote: »

A lot of people seem to be missing the most significant counter to stealth: Caltrops.

I've been playing PTS quite a bit and just about every time I'm about to round a corner, a quick caltrops ensures that there's nothing hiding there. If there is, the half second of surprise means I get my rotation off first, and I have yet to find any class that lives more than 3.2 seconds unless blocking, or 4.6 seconds if it's a templar spamming breath.

Caltrops is indeed the best counter for cloak by a mile.

But spamming caltrops mindlessly in IC means you will soon have more NPC aggro than you can possibly handle. And cloak doesn't drop aggro either.

Ametisto · August 2015

Crown wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Proficiency and automation do take a bit of time.

The timing on animation cancelling and cool downs is well known and/or can be figured out by testing a series of macros (Razer Synapse comes to mind). For those who don't know, macros are essentially scripts that press buttons for you. The most common one is light attack weaving where a macro can be set to hit your left mouse button, then as quickly as possible use a skill, so you only have to hit one key (or button) to have the effect of two go off in the span of time you would normally get the one skill off (plus about 1/8th of a second).

You don't need skill to copy paste a macro from someone who knows what they're doing to get off killing damage in a few seconds. Some of us who have been playing magicka NBs for a long time have it in muscle memory (my average is 3.2 seconds for a good kill when ganking solo), though with a macro (tested with a friendly opponent who let me kill him a few times to confirm) the timing can be gotten down to about 2.9 seconds. The only person I've met with tighter timing on a magicka NB is @Araxleon -- though I've not seen him play in a while.

The top players tend not to like macros, as you're stuck in a combination, and how much fun is it to do the exact same thing over and over and over again..? There's no satisfaction in hitting one button and killing someone - at least not to me. There are however a lot of people who won't hesitate to use them..

EDIT: Typo on the word span.

2,9 seconds for kill, I want be magica NB too
I'm rerolling from useless Templar to OP magicka nightblade

bosmern_ESO · August 2015

JDar wrote: »

Just stop. Please. You can still get into IC without being a nightblade. Does a one class game sound fun to you? No, it doesn't. Roll a DK or templar. Please be original.

but...but...but...syphers doing it! and If syphers doing it I want to copy him to try and act like im good!.

Yonkit · August 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Slow down the damage, it becomes a technical fight of ability knowledge mastery, and the experienced are going to destroy the FOTM handily.

It almost sounds like you just acknowledged the existence of... skill.

Vanzen · August 2015

As a DK, slot Radiant magelight and reactive armor. And imagine the face of the Nb bursting you from stealth doing 85% less dammage than he tought he was going to. When feared, just wait for it to finish dont even bother to break it, and look at the nb trying to put an dent in your health with your 100cp in shield and healing. And add the fact that the poor guy cant escape and cloak anymore.

krim · August 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL NBs posting here. DKs admitted they were top dogs back in the day

except they really weren't.

Ishammael · August 2015

krim wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL NBs posting here. DKs admitted they were top dogs back in the day

except they really weren't.

Agreed. The old "top dog" DKs relied heavily on people suiciding into flappy flaps and standing in banners. Ultimate gain rate probably needed to be adjusted slightly, that is about it.

TheBull · August 2015

Crown wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Proficiency and automation do take a bit of time.

The timing on animation cancelling and cool downs is well known and/or can be figured out by testing a series of macros (Razer Synapse comes to mind). For those who don't know, macros are essentially scripts that press buttons for you. The most common one is light attack weaving where a macro can be set to hit your left mouse button, then as quickly as possible use a skill, so you only have to hit one key (or button) to have the effect of two go off in the span of time you would normally get the one skill off (plus about 1/8th of a second).

You don't need skill to copy paste a macro from someone who knows what they're doing to get off killing damage in a few seconds. Some of us who have been playing magicka NBs for a long time have it in muscle memory (my average is 3.2 seconds for a good kill when ganking solo), though with a macro (tested with a friendly opponent who let me kill him a few times to confirm) the timing can be gotten down to about 2.9 seconds. The only person I've met with tighter timing on a magicka NB is @Araxleon -- though I've not seen him play in a while.

The top players tend not to like macros, as you're stuck in a combination, and how much fun is it to do the exact same thing over and over and over again..? There's no satisfaction in hitting one button and killing someone - at least not to me. There are however a lot of people who won't hesitate to use them..

EDIT: Typo on the word span.

2.9 seconds I get nervous after 1.4.

Macros and those claiming they were killed by one are the biggest joke on these forums.

RadioheadSh0t · August 2015

I'm planning on running my Magicka NB for solo play, but Sorc for group, and it's hard to think why anyone would run anything but Magicka NB for solo IC if they have one leveled. Being able to weave in and out of NPCs without drawing aggro, or cloaking through a group of NPCs as an escape (since non-NBs would draw aggro), is invaluable in such a heavily NPC populated area. If there weren't so many NPCs, which I would prefer, Magicka NBs wouldn't be so prevalent, but with so many NPCs, that ability is just too valuable.

I don't get the permablockers pretending like their playstyle is better. Being able to tank a lot of damage, without doing damage, just means it's a matter of time before multiple enemies show up, at which point you have no chance. Even if the NB can't kill you, you most likely can't kill him, and they'll escape when things get rough or if your allies show up. Even if I'm outmatched, it's hard to kill a Magicka nb 1v1 unless you're a NB yourself (piercing Mark).

Ezareth · August 2015

Vanzen wrote: »

As a DK, slot Radiant magelight and reactive armor. And imagine the face of the Nb bursting you from stealth doing 85% less dammage than he tought he was going to. When feared, just wait for it to finish dont even bother to break it, and look at the nb trying to put an dent in your health with your 100cp in shield and healing. And add the fact that the poor guy cant escape and cloak anymore.

That's now how the math works out. I don't think Radiant is worth slotting in IC with the decreased damage and loss of MOTG toggle.

And if you think Radiant is going to stop a good Magicka NB from Escaping in IC you haven't fought a good Magicka NB before.

krim · August 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL NBs posting here. DKs admitted they were top dogs back in the day

except they really weren't.

Agreed. The old "top dog" DKs relied heavily on people suiciding into flappy flaps and standing in banners. Ultimate gain rate probably needed to be adjusted slightly, that is about it.

Exactly it has more to do with people not knowing what to do rather then DKs being the top dog. Not only with people just being dumb and not knowing how to fight certain DKs, but also people playing other classes not realizing that they could too build for sustain and be tanky strong. At the end of 1.5 we had every class that could fight any class 1v1 and also tank 10 people with out changing skills or gear and no exploits needed. Unless you want to consider spamming a skill or holding block and just using regular game mechanics an exploit. Which happened and is most likely why we are where we are today with ESO.

When I was playing and I encountered something I always had a way to deal with it. I never had a moment where I didn't know what to do to stop a certain group or player. It was read react and counter, and for me there was always one. Unless you know giant red zerg with 20 negates.

Minno · August 2015

Crown wrote: »

A lot of people seem to be missing the most significant counter to stealth: Caltrops.

I've been playing PTS quite a bit and just about every time I'm about to round a corner, a quick caltrops ensures that there's nothing hiding there. If there is, the half second of surprise means I get my rotation off first, and I have yet to find any class that lives more than 3.2 seconds unless blocking, or 4.6 seconds if it's a templar spamming breath.

Pvp support skill viable in IC? Haven't tested it yet, seemed like a good option for those wanting to use a different skill (its morph does dmg to stealth players). I think it's one-time dmg if I'm not mistaken.

Vanzen · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

As a DK, slot Radiant magelight and reactive armor. And imagine the face of the Nb bursting you from stealth doing 85% less dammage than he tought he was going to. When feared, just wait for it to finish dont even bother to break it, and look at the nb trying to put an dent in your health with your 100cp in shield and healing. And add the fact that the poor guy cant escape and cloak anymore.

That's now how the math works out. I don't think Radiant is worth slotting in IC with the decreased damage and loss of MOTG toggle.

And if you think Radiant is going to stop a good Magicka NB from Escaping in IC you haven't fought a good Magicka NB before.

I might be a bit too optimistic, but from my short experience in IC, this set up has been a real nb killer so far. Radiant is definitely worth sloting, crit is a nice boost even for healing and reactive prevents nb bursting you while feared.
About the math : 50% less dam from stealth with radiant and 35% less with reactive from the stun. I dont know if my math is correct, what I know is that NB attacking from stealth barely scratches me ...

Ezareth · August 2015

Vanzen wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

As a DK, slot Radiant magelight and reactive armor. And imagine the face of the Nb bursting you from stealth doing 85% less dammage than he tought he was going to. When feared, just wait for it to finish dont even bother to break it, and look at the nb trying to put an dent in your health with your 100cp in shield and healing. And add the fact that the poor guy cant escape and cloak anymore.

That's now how the math works out. I don't think Radiant is worth slotting in IC with the decreased damage and loss of MOTG toggle.

And if you think Radiant is going to stop a good Magicka NB from Escaping in IC you haven't fought a good Magicka NB before.

I might be a bit too optimistic, but from my short experience in IC, this set up has been a real nb killer so far. Radiant is definitely worth sloting, crit is a nice boost even for healing and reactive prevents nb bursting you while feared.
About the math : 50% less dam from stealth with radiant and 35% less with reactive from the stun. I dont know if my math is correct, what I know is that NB attacking from stealth barely scratches me ...

They're rarely a threat on live either as almost all of them are squishy as hell and have no sustain. Radiant reduces their crit damage by 50% which means their stealth attacks are going to be doing less than 1/3rd less, not half. All Nightblades do 160% damage from Stealth + whatever the stealth crit bonus is. Dropping 50% from that bonus is always less than 1/3rd. For two slots on your bars and the fact that cloaked attacks don't count towards stealth makes it a poor skill.

I also don't think Reactive armor reduces the damage done by a stealth attack, only the attacks after that while you're stunned, but I'm not certain of that.

Crown · August 2015

krim wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL NBs posting here. DKs admitted they were top dogs back in the day

except they really weren't.

@krim Hey beam brother! Haven't seen you in game in a long time! Hit me up if you want to play a bit!

krim · August 2015

Crown wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL NBs posting here. DKs admitted they were top dogs back in the day

except they really weren't.

@krim Hey beam brother! Haven't seen you in game in a long time! Hit me up if you want to play a bit!

@Crown Are you playing anything else besides eso?

I might consider reinstalling for IC if im bored enough at home. Right now when im home im playing diablo 2 hardcore mode online. The gaming situation is rough atm lol.

Darnathian · August 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL NBs posting here. DKs admitted they were top dogs back in the day

except they really weren't.

Agreed. The old "top dog" DKs relied heavily on people suiciding into flappy flaps and standing in banners. Ultimate gain rate probably needed to be adjusted slightly, that is about it.

Too late. Dk officially dead class

JDar · August 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL NBs posting here. DKs admitted they were top dogs back in the day

except they really weren't.

Agreed. The old "top dog" DKs relied heavily on people suiciding into flappy flaps and standing in banners. Ultimate gain rate probably needed to be adjusted slightly, that is about it.

Too late. Dk officially dead class

Huh. I'm actually leveling a dragonknight right now because I'm tired of getting killed so much so easily. Which will happen if you are a magicka nightblade soloing and you make a mistake.

I think a lot of people will find the class is not for them but continue to play it anyway because "hey it's the new meta right? And the real problem is that ZoS should nerf ________(insert effective ability here)________" lol

That's the real reason I started this thread. I don't want my main toon's class to get nerfed because things get out of control balance-wise. We waited so long for our class' abilities and passives to be coherent and fully functional.

krim · August 2015

JDar wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

LoL NBs posting here. DKs admitted they were top dogs back in the day

except they really weren't.

Agreed. The old "top dog" DKs relied heavily on people suiciding into flappy flaps and standing in banners. Ultimate gain rate probably needed to be adjusted slightly, that is about it.

Too late. Dk officially dead class

Huh. I'm actually leveling a dragonknight right now because I'm tired of getting killed so much so easily. Which will happen if you are a magicka nightblade soloing and you make a mistake.

I think a lot of people will find the class is not for them but continue to play it anyway because "hey it's the new meta right? And the real problem is that ZoS should nerf ________(insert effective ability here)________" lol

That's the real reason I started this thread. I don't want my main toon's class to get nerfed because things get out of control balance-wise. We waited so long for our class' abilities and passives to be coherent and fully functional.

My only character is a NB, but i have tried many builds out. If you really look at it the NB was the most well rounded class prior to 1.6 even with all the proclaimed things that didnt work.

In 1.5 NBs could
1. High dps in pve
2. 1v1 duels
3. Gank from stealth in 1 to 2 hits
4. 1vX and sustain

There really wasnt one thing that NBs were bad at. I always felt like the outcry was way overblown by people who just dont understand why they died. My NB always felt coherent and fully functional to me no matter what style or build i was playing. There really is only one valid argument and that was the whole stamina build issue but that goes for every class. Its hard to be effective outside of ganking when blocking, dodging, and breaking free all cost stamina. I still believe that all that could have been worked out with minor tweaks and fixes using 1.5 mechanics.