The Death of WWs

SkylarkAU · August 2015

I would like to see 10% health regen added to werewolf passives in conjunction with the existing 15% stamina regen so there is a dual benefit similar to vampirism (i've just rerolled a tank build though so I'm a little biased)..

AtmaDarkwolf · August 2015

i think a simple 'fix' would be to make ww ultimate be UNLIMITED time, and instead change the devour to a heal/stam regen (or short term damage buff)

Allow 'physical' related passives from racial/class to work as ww, but no active skills (other than ww skills) Allow reusing ult to shift back to human form.

Then all the 'changes' would make sense, and would take away that one BIG huge annoyance about being WW, the constant 'stress' of looking for your next target before your 30seconds is up. (And being horribly vulnerable during devour, and having WW form randomly 'end' too early, etc etc)

Hell i'd even be fine if the ww line 'forced' you to permanently become shifted and all your 'regular' skills being 'adjusted' to work with WW (or even 'change' your class to werewolf and give us more trees/skills to work on, maybe make werewolves a little different than as it is now, where other than the morphs, no werewolf is unique from another.)

Dekkameron · August 2015

Although more than half of my chars are WW just for the passive currently (why not eh?) i don't think it means Werewolves will die out, on the contrary i think it means you'll see more actual proper werewolves that want to bite your face off.
WWs do some pretty sick damage on par with sorc overload builds, in pvp i doubt it would even be noticable espesh with the "leap" bug that screws you over on a dodgy path.

Brasseurfb16_ESO · August 2015

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

i think a simple 'fix' would be to make ww ultimate be UNLIMITED time, and instead change the devour to a heal/stam regen (or short term damage buff)

Allow 'physical' related passives from racial/class to work as ww, but no active skills (other than ww skills) Allow reusing ult to shift back to human form.

Then all the 'changes' would make sense, and would take away that one BIG huge annoyance about being WW, the constant 'stress' of looking for your next target before your 30seconds is up. (And being horribly vulnerable during devour, and having WW form randomly 'end' too early, etc etc)

Hell i'd even be fine if the ww line 'forced' you to permanently become shifted and all your 'regular' skills being 'adjusted' to work with WW (or even 'change' your class to werewolf and give us more trees/skills to work on, maybe make werewolves a little different than as it is now, where other than the morphs, no werewolf is unique from another.)

Do you even play Werewolf?

Every passives work in WW form unless,
- it is related to weapons. (since you do not use the same weapon set anymore)
- it needs you to slot a specific ability.
- it works out of something the WW transformation can't do. (exemple : stealth related passives)

Otherwise every other passives work fine during the transformation.

Sneaky-Snurr · August 2015

Tors wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

And for people saying that 'but vampires have the downside of receiving extra dmg from fire abilities/spells', you have to admit that it is barely a downside.

Stopped reading there, totally ignoring the massive downside makes the rest of your post likewise dubious

@Tors That's a massive downside? Oh my dear God you have got to be joking. Did you know why I even suggested 25% poison extra dmg (IC patch) to be applied in humanoid form? God yes you guessed it right, to impose a penalty as how you'd get for being a Vamp (25% extra fire damage). I'm really trying to find common grounds between being a WW and a Vamp. Why can't you see that? You really need to read and comprehend what I've wrote in the first post my dear friend.

willymchilybily wrote: »

OP You really think giving WWs a posion damage 25%!!! debuff so you can keep the 15% stam regen is worth it?

Stam NB Bowman, with the fighters guild passive and some Thermatage CP throw in a masters bow and some morag tong. i dont think it would be pretty in pvp. As for PVE.... shrug.

I think Vamp has some better utility because of the points you make. But i see no quick fix to balance it and keep the lore. I would strongly suggest re-wording/modifying the fighters guild passive skilled tracker, it should only effect WWs whilst they are in WW form.

that way there is no benefit but also no downside to WW. So players can just be them if they like the concept and lore. and want to change into one. That to me would make it fair.

@willymchilybily I apologise for putting out such suggestions but that is needed to compromise between being a WW and a Vamp. If not, you'll find responses like @Tors up there. I do agree on your suggestions about the Fighters' Guild passives. They need more lurvee.

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

The boost of extra armour/spellresist represents almost 15% mitigation, I wouldn't call that "basically nothing". You say 20% stamina is useless because Werewolves have high stamina cost abilities? That extra 20% stamina can be used for any basic actions (like dodge, block, breakfree) and most of the abilities don't need to be spammed. Claws of Life is a Brawler skill version on steroid, you don't even need to spam it and the cost is relatively low. Ferocious Roar is CC, again, not something you ever need to chain and the 1sec cast time makes it perfect to use in conjucture with Howl of Agony because players can't breakfree before you hit them with that high dmg burst. What is left is a leap, which again shouldn't be spammed in combat and a heal which cost magicka.

You could spam Howl of Agony to have considerable DpS, but that would result in your character beeing quickly out of stamina or you could spam light attacks, and do almost as much damage at the cost of 0 stamina (unless ennemies are immune to bleeds, in which case you should probably use another ult anyways).

The only issue I could agree with you is the feeding time, but, if you remain under attack and leap from time to time, that timer of yours shouldn't be to much of an issue. So you shouldn't be concerned about the timer while you are fighting and should be feeding only when you are out of combat.

You ask for changes, but none of those are in regards of the WW transformation but rather your stamina bonus in humanoid form.

In my oppinion this thread is just another "I don't want to loose my 15% stamina" in disguise.

@Brasseurfb16_ESO Are you even seeing what you wrote? Yes, WWs DO have high stamina cost of abilites and you're speaking porky pies now. Since when giving extra stamina pool gives more roll dodges/blocking frequencies? Roll dodging, blocking and break-frees are scaled off by percentages. Did you not know this? Ceteris paribus, giving oneself extra stamina pool provides no additional said actions being performed as they're percentage based.

Sneaky-Snurr · August 2015

acw37162 wrote: »

I actually agree withe the OP on the principle of the argument. WW is not even in the same league as vamp as far as usefulness goes.

Its passives compared to vampire suck.
WW costs the utility of one of two ultimate spots.
Your on a timer when you decide you actually do want to use your WW

In the next patch the one perk WW had is going to cost you an ultimate slot to keep.

Except you could have made your entire point without railing on vampires, 40 % or 25 % extra fire damage in not "easy" to mitigate. Any add or group of adds that does fire damage can 1 to 2 shot you if your not looking.

Without ridiculously priced resist fire glyphs (monetary barrier)
High end enchanter (skill point/time/ingredients barrier)
Champion Points (time barrier @ roughly 10 champion points per 5% reduction is 50 for 25% reduction which the math is not quite accurate because of diminishing returns or 80 CP is with 150 CP total or 240 total just to get close to normal mitigation)
Dark Elf choice (limit character creation choice)

So no 40 % fire damage is not "easy" to mitigate it actually a pain the ass to mitigate

I appreciate your opinions @acw37162. I'm saying in relation to the next IC patch, that's why I mentioned the 25% fire damage. I however do agree that 40% is not easy to mitigate. That is my other fault for not being specific about the context.

Sneaky-Snurr · August 2015

Vigarr wrote: »

Is this really a long winded whine about having to slot the werewolf ultimate to get the passive?

@Vigarr Funny. If you read my initial post, you'll recognise that i'm suggesting a compromise between being a WW and a Vamp because I suggested that WWs should take extra damage from poison attacks while in human form. Pretty much the opposite of whining. Instead of 'NURF DE VAMPS GIVE BUFSCHS TO WW PL0x', I actually suggested a penalty for being a WW and I didn't propose a Vamp nerf either. There has never been one post from a WW player suggesting a penalty for being one are there? The reason I'm comparing WWs to Vamps is because they are the only comparable skill lines atm. And why am I not surprised, mission accomplished for me as I pulled you out of your QQ-Vamp-coffin in the cave like I've stated in my initial post. Please read to have a better insight on my argument. I would very much appreciate if you do so.

Brasseurfb16_ESO · August 2015

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

@Brasseurfb16_ESO Are you even seeing what you wrote? Yes, WWs DO have high stamina cost of abilites and you're speaking porky pies now. Since when giving extra stamina pool gives more roll dodges/blocking frequencies? Roll dodging, blocking and break-frees are scaled off by percentages. Did you not know this? Ceteris paribus, giving oneself extra stamina pool provides no additional said actions being performed as they're percentage based.

You realy need to check your stuff before back talking to someone... Dodgeroll, Breakfree, Dodge have a %cost that scale off BASE Stamina, so increasing your maximum stamina will indeed give you more opportunities to use those skills. But no point to talk to you anymore, because you never tried it out and you never will...

starkerealm · August 2015

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Do you even play Werewolf?

Every passives work in WW form unless,
- it is related to weapons. (since you do not use the same weapon set anymore)
- it needs you to slot a specific ability.
- it works out of something the WW transformation can't do. (exemple : stealth related passives)

Otherwise every other passives work fine during the transformation.

Some passives do shut down. I don't remember the full list, but it's mostly stuff you'd expect or that requires skills you can't equip as a werewolf. Two of the weird ones are Intimidating Presence and Persuasive Will. I've never heard an official explanation why they shut down while you're a wolf, though I suspect it was supposed to lock you out of dialog while you were in wolf form, but that got dropped at some point.

Sneaky-Snurr · August 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

No, you're looking at it wrong. They give up the use of a class ultimate to be able to transform into a werewolf. The stamina regen is just a little bonus for the folks who want to transform into a werewolf anyway. Your idea to have a debuff that's always on would penalize the werewolf players who actually care about using the transform.

@UrQuan This problem is a paradox. I suggested a nerf because I'm really trying to balance out the pros and cons of being a WW or Vamp just to make circumstances of being either a WW or a Vamp to be equal. This is where the paradox comes in. When you become a WW (say you have a permanent 25% extra poison damage on at all times), you are imposed a penalty for being one hence there will be an incentive for you to actually use the transformation (and this will also deter the so-called faux WWs from being one) because it will be worthwhile with the penalty being imposed. You go on saying there are no penalties with the bonus so there you have it, I'm giving a solution for you.

If you're still not satisfied with the solution, bear with me as I'll list down why my suggestion would relatively balance it out (with IC patch in mind). Meaning that WWs and Vamps alike don't have to slot in skills/ultimates to have the passives active. By passiveS, I'm directing to Vamps. The single buff (stam regen bonus) applies to WWs;
WWs:
1. Permanent weakness to poison damage (25%)
2. Gets ONE passive for being one but not be able to use WW skill line
3. Since the penalty is always on, it's better to transform into a WW because 'why would I be a WW for just ONE passive when there is a penalty for being one and that I actually DO want to be a WW'. This, I assure you, will deter faux-WWs away from being a WW and people who actually want to be a WW will be sure to use the transformation to completely utilise WW skill line.
4. You are a WW. You are not a human so it is plausible why a WW has a bonus over being a human. (This statement is directed to all of you who think that having a small regen bonus on at all times is stupid. You become a WW for any bonuses it provides since it is beneficial. Same case as a Vamps)

Vamps:
1. Permanent weakness to fire damage (25%)
2. Gets MULTIPLE passives for being one while being able to synergise class/Vamp/weapon abilities
3. Since the penalty is always on, it's better to slot in Vamp abilities because 'why not? they're amazing and that's why I want to be one and they have MULTIPLE passives without the need to transform into a Vamp like WWs'.
4. You are a Vamp. You are not a human so it is plausible why a Vamp has a bonus over being a human.

starkerealm · August 2015

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

No, you're looking at it wrong. They give up the use of a class ultimate to be able to transform into a werewolf. The stamina regen is just a little bonus for the folks who want to transform into a werewolf anyway. Your idea to have a debuff that's always on would penalize the werewolf players who actually care about using the transform.

@UrQuan This problem is a paradox. I suggested a nerf because I'm really trying to balance out the pros and cons of being a WW or Vamp just to make circumstances of being either a WW or a Vamp to be equal.

The problem with this approach is it makes the supposition that Werewolves and Vampires have to be equivalent features. They're not, and they really shouldn't.

Vampire is a permanent power trade. You can make yourself less effective in these circumstances to have more tools to deal with those circumstances. You're trading. You lose something (for the duration of being a vampire), to gain something (for the duration of being a vampire.)

Werewolves are a frenzy system. You gain access to a skill kill mode, where you can be far more effective now, so long as you continue to play at the top of your game.

These are fundamentally different game mechanics that approach different playstyles. With different build priorities and goals.

It would be like saying the fishing mechanic and lockpicking mechanic need to be equivalent to one another. While it's true that you can't do both at once, they're vastly different aspects of the game (in spite of all their similarities), and saying, "well, these need to be equal" is missing the point.

Brasseurfb16_ESO · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Do you even play Werewolf?

Every passives work in WW form unless,
- it is related to weapons. (since you do not use the same weapon set anymore)
- it needs you to slot a specific ability.
- it works out of something the WW transformation can't do. (exemple : stealth related passives)

Otherwise every other passives work fine during the transformation.

Some passives do shut down. I don't remember the full list, but it's mostly stuff you'd expect or that requires skills you can't equip as a werewolf. Two of the weird ones are Intimidating Presence and Persuasive Will. I've never heard an official explanation why they shut down while you're a wolf, though I suspect it was supposed to lock you out of dialog while you were in wolf form, but that got dropped at some point.

Yeah you are right, my explanation wasn't 100% accurate, but combat wise if you follow my 3 rules stated above you should figure which passives work and which do not.

Sneaky-Snurr · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

No, you're looking at it wrong. They give up the use of a class ultimate to be able to transform into a werewolf. The stamina regen is just a little bonus for the folks who want to transform into a werewolf anyway. Your idea to have a debuff that's always on would penalize the werewolf players who actually care about using the transform.

@UrQuan This problem is a paradox. I suggested a nerf because I'm really trying to balance out the pros and cons of being a WW or Vamp just to make circumstances of being either a WW or a Vamp to be equal.

The problem with this approach is it makes the supposition that Werewolves and Vampires have to be equivalent features. They're not, and they really shouldn't.

Vampire is a permanent power trade. You can make yourself less effective in these circumstances to have more tools to deal with those circumstances. You're trading. You lose something (for the duration of being a vampire), to gain something (for the duration of being a vampire.)

Werewolves are a frenzy system. You gain access to a skill kill mode, where you can be far more effective now, so long as you continue to play at the top of your game.

These are fundamentally different game mechanics that approach different playstyles. With different build priorities and goals.

It would be like saying the fishing mechanic and lockpicking mechanic need to be equivalent to one another. While it's true that you can't do both at once, they're vastly different aspects of the game (in spite of all their similarities), and saying, "well, these need to be equal" is missing the point.

What is this duration you speak of? I'm not aware that there is a duration for being a Vamp unless you're speaking of WWs. Please enlighten me. Also, as I've mentioned before, WWs and Vamps are the only skill lines comparable to one another (to a certain extent of course). You can't just simply put lockpicking and fishing side by side as they're incomparable. WWs and Vamps are similar due to the opportunity costs of choosing to be either one.

starkerealm · August 2015

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Do you even play Werewolf?

Every passives work in WW form unless,
- it is related to weapons. (since you do not use the same weapon set anymore)
- it needs you to slot a specific ability.
- it works out of something the WW transformation can't do. (exemple : stealth related passives)

Otherwise every other passives work fine during the transformation.

Some passives do shut down. I don't remember the full list, but it's mostly stuff you'd expect or that requires skills you can't equip as a werewolf. Two of the weird ones are Intimidating Presence and Persuasive Will. I've never heard an official explanation why they shut down while you're a wolf, though I suspect it was supposed to lock you out of dialog while you were in wolf form, but that got dropped at some point.

Yeah you are right, my explanation wasn't 100% accurate, but combat wise if you follow my 3 rules stated above you should figure which passives work and which do not.

Yeah, that will get you most of them. For some reason when I read, "it needs to slot a specific ability" I wasn't thinking of stuff like Expert Mage or Pressure Points... even though... yeah, there's no "you need to have this specific ability equipped" passives in the game... except for werewolf transform. In most cases like that, the passive effect is attached to the active ability... so... derp. That's mybad.

Apparently it is possible to end up with non-wolf abilities on your wolf bar. I've no idea if stuff like swallow soul still applies it's modifier when that happens, but I'm not really interested enough to try to figure out it.

Sneaky-Snurr · August 2015

Brasseurfb16_ESO wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

@Brasseurfb16_ESO Are you even seeing what you wrote? Yes, WWs DO have high stamina cost of abilites and you're speaking porky pies now. Since when giving extra stamina pool gives more roll dodges/blocking frequencies? Roll dodging, blocking and break-frees are scaled off by percentages. Did you not know this? Ceteris paribus, giving oneself extra stamina pool provides no additional said actions being performed as they're percentage based.

You realy need to check your stuff before back talking to someone... Dodgeroll, Breakfree, Dodge have a %cost that scale off BASE Stamina, so increasing your maximum stamina will indeed give you more opportunities to use those skills. But no point to talk to you anymore, because you never tried it out and you never will...

@Brasseurfb16_ESO I have done a few checkups on that and if I'm not mistaken, they've always scaled off from the current stamina pool you have at the time. If it really did scale off of base stamina, then I'm sorry for coming across as being too aggressive in my comments. It's just that a lot of people did not understand where I came from with the post and it's so frustrating. I'll keep my cool the next time round.

Sykis · August 2015

I was thinking of another way to make WW kind of balanced within the game. Give them a rage counter. Instead of using the ULT slot make it so WWs, while in human form, generate rage over the course of a battle. When the bar reaches max you automatically shift and become the beast.

This would negate people from using up an ULT slot and force players to use the gift, or curse how ever you see it, but require them to be skillful in combat and time their transformations while not taking away their ULT slot which seems to be the biggest complain once people realized that ZOS is getting rid of the free Stam regen. They have already beefed up the damage and the WW is kind of tanky if skills are distributed correctly.

And for those who don't like the timer and wish to use the skill on call, they can add a passive that changes your transformation into an ULT but requires it to be slotted in order to gain the passive benefits while in human form.

Igglez · August 2015

People being a WW just for the 15% stam regen doesn't mean WW's are alive and kicking, WW's have always been dead. They are not at all viable. They need a lot of changes - for instance, the transformation duration needs extending considerably, and the cost of abilities needs reducing. IMO you should be able to run around for a few minutes, causing mahem at close quarters, only being subdued by poison/range/multiple opponents. WW also should not be affected by any CC.

Not sure about XB1/PC but on PS4 WW's are laughed at in Cyrodiil and I've never even seen a WW attempt in a dungeon. Shame really, they could potentially add a lot depth.

Alucardo · August 2015

The reaction people should give when they see a Werewolf in PvP is "Oh crap, a Werewolf". Currently it's "lol, a Werewolf". That alone says there's something very, very wrong.

starkerealm · August 2015

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Vampire is a permanent power trade. You can make yourself less effective in these circumstances to have more tools to deal with those circumstances. You're trading. You lose something (for the duration of being a vampire), to gain something (for the duration of being a vampire.)

What is this duration you speak of? I'm not aware that there is a duration for being a Vamp unless you're speaking of WWs. Please enlighten me.

The duration for vampires is from the time they're infected until they get fed up with the fire damage and cure themselves.

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Also, as I've mentioned before, WWs and Vamps are the only skill lines comparable to one another (to a certain extent of course). You can't just simply put lockpicking and fishing side by side as they're incomparable. WWs and Vamps are similar due to the opportunity costs of choosing to be either one.

It's an analogy, take it for what it's worth. Werewolf and Vampire provide different play experiences. It is a choice, but it's not a binary one. If you like rampage based skill challenges, you can take the werewolf, and have fun with it. If you like trading damage resistance for more lethality, you can take the Vampire. The only reason you can't take both is because the power of lore says so. It's not really a balance consideration. Which is part of why when the end finally came for werepires, the devs looked at them and said, "eh, scratch one of those, it's all good" rather than, you know, banning someone for an exploit.

I can understand looking at them and thinking, "well, these are both monsters, you get to play them, you can only be one, clearly they must be an equal choice," but, the fact is they don't. Because they're very different character modifications.

Again, it would be like looking at fishing and lockpicking and saying, "well these two mechanics need to be equivalent." They don't, because they're very different aspects of gameplay. By the same measure, Werewolf and Vampire are very different aspects of gameplay.

Now, if you're saying that neither should be too powerful overall, then, you know, you're right. They do need to be balanced for use in PvP. But at the same time, that's not a reason to look at them against each other.

Vampires have had a long history of tilting the scales too far in the player's favor, because of all the nasty little interactions they allow. Primarily, they're a build challenge. Rework these mechanics to get what you want.

Werewolves are very tricky to use effectively, but it's a skill challenge. Your build as a werewolf is mostly locked. The question is, do you know how to actually play them.

It's two different aspects of the game. I know they look similar on the surface, but that similarity ends quickly.

CP5 · August 2015

CheeseDivinity wrote: »

The reaction people should give when they see a Werewolf in PvP is "Oh crap, a Werewolf". Currently it's "lol, a Werewolf". That alone says there's something very, very wrong.

I have never seen or heard otherwise. And in all my time pvping I have only died to a ww once, when I was on siege and unable to cc break without getting off first. Most the time they just spam their heal then die once that runs out, if anyone else wants to provide insight onto the amazing unkillable wolves they almost act like seeing I would be interested.

snorlockb16_ESO · August 2015

I've been a WW since beta. I don't know if I even really notice the stamina regen when human, but I'm indifferent to losing it. I've stayed a WW for the bonus but I very rarely use the transformation even though I would REALLY like to use it regularly.

What I hate is the limited transformation time which a) means I can't fight a boss, dolmen, Cyrodil, etc. as a werewolf because I will lose my transformation and have the equivalent of a stun for a second or two, and b) the constant eating really gets old.

The current design of WW is really for grinding only. In pretty much any other circumstance it is not an advantage, not fun, and usually suicidal.

What I ask for is that the feeding be treated like eating any other provision - and if you want to downside it, make it exactly a provision and cancel anything else I've eaten or drank, I'd be fine with that. Have it last 60 minutes with an extension according to my provisioning passive, and let me toggle back and forth if I want.

During those 60 minutes I would suggest letting us keep the stamina regen as human even if nothing is slotted, and I could accept poison vulnerability as human. It would be a "food" provision that gives a bonus, a negative, and a transformation toggle.

This would not make WW imbalanced or unfair to any non-werewolf, but it would make playing a werewolf and transforming into one regularly FUN and something I would do in a variety of circumstances.

starkerealm · August 2015

snorlockb16_ESO wrote: »

What I hate is the limited transformation time which a) means I can't fight a boss, dolmen, Cyrodil, etc. as a werewolf because I will lose my transformation and have the equivalent of a stun for a second or two, and b) the constant eating really gets old.

The current design of WW is really for grinding only. In pretty much any other circumstance it is not an advantage, not fun, and usually suicidal.

It's funny you mention dolmens there. I find those are one of the few times where wolves really shine right now.

I think I've said it before, but I would love if Werewolf worked like overload. (Each attack consumed some ultimate, but transforming is a toggle, and you keep all unused ultimate for future transforms.)

The biggest problem right now is just, I agree, the timer. I mean, if you're good, you can extend it out. I can keep timers going basically indefinitely. But I do understand and sympathize the complaint. You never have time to really enjoy being a werewolf. Since you need to find your next meal right now.

Alucardo · August 2015

I got yelled at on my way to the graveyard in Bangkorai for killing "defenceless" squirrels and how I was just "showing off". By the time I explained to her that I needed to do it to keep my form it had run out before I reached the next enemy. I enjoy competitions, but Werewolf is a constant race against time. I think my blood pressure has risen to unhealthy levels since receiving Lycanthropy.

Xsorus · August 2015

The only change werewolf needs is to be made like overload from sorcs, were you can change anytime you want but while in the form your ultimate starts draining like overload

skelo0 · August 2015

I swear no one know the existance of the passive called Blood Rage:
When you take damage in werewolf form your werewolf timer gets 4 seconds added to it, this can happen every 4 seconds

if youre in combat i doubt you will run out of werewolf form

also the change you mentionid is unneccesary since you will either have ww slotted or be a ww if you actualy use werewolf for its inted use and not as a passive

Egonieser · August 2015

All i see here is Vampire players talking down WW's.
Solution is simple, give them vampire lord transformation ultimate and same penalties - skills and passives only while trnsformed and if remaining in human form, have the need to slot tansform skill at all times for the passive to work.
Sounds fair? It does to me, but i bet all the entitled vampire wannabes will not be fine with this, yet they all seem to think werewolf players should be.
Give them 'pires a taste of their own medicine and then we will see how quickly their views will change...

And this is coming from a player who plays 2 vampire chars.. Because WW is just not viable now and even less after IC, however i do wish i could go back to WW without gimping myself.

starkerealm · August 2015

CheeseDivinity wrote: »

I got yelled at on my way to the graveyard in Bangkorai for killing "defenceless" squirrels and how I was just "showing off". By the time I explained to her that I needed to do it to keep my form it had run out before I reached the next enemy. I enjoy competitions, but Werewolf is a constant race against time. I think my blood pressure has risen to unhealthy levels since receiving Lycanthropy.

Yeah, honestly, I don't stop to chat while in wolf form. I mean, they can yell at me, throw cabbage, do whatever, but I have a murder schedule to keep, right now.

BullNetch · August 2015

WW requires 21 skill points to max out. It's a short length ultimate that costs 21 skill points and has to be leveled over a long time.

Vampire requires 14-15 skill points and is always on.

WW is a bigger skill point investment and it's basically just a fancy ultimate.

snorlockb16_ESO · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

It's funny you mention dolmens there. I find those are one of the few times where wolves really shine right now.

I think I've said it before, but I would love if Werewolf worked like overload. (Each attack consumed some ultimate, but transforming is a toggle, and you keep all unused ultimate for future transforms.)

The biggest problem right now is just, I agree, the timer. I mean, if you're good, you can extend it out. I can keep timers going basically indefinitely. But I do understand and sympathize the complaint. You never have time to really enjoy being a werewolf. Since you need to find your next meal right now.

You're right I should clarify that. Where possible I prefer to solo dolmens, and as a werewolf it's near impossible to defeat the timer and the dolmen both. That said, it occurs to me that dolmens aren't intended to be always soloed, so maybe that example doesn't count.

Chrlynsch · August 2015

The biggest issue with werewolves is their identity crisis.

Ultimates in elder scrolls online short term boosts to damage, healing, or survivability. Let's keep this in mind!

So let's ask some questions for someone looking to become a werewolf!

Q: When can I use my Werewolf transformation?
A: You must muster up 300 Ultimate, or a perfect ultimate generation of 100 seconds

Q: Cool, I bet with a high Ultimate cost like that it has to be quite a powerful Ultimate right?
A: ... wel no... you basically get access to 5 new skills that do on par damage to what you did before.

Q: So im guessing werewolves become an unstoppable forces then huh?
A: Well with the upcoming patch we gain 10000 armor and spell resistance while transforming, roughly 15% extra damage mitigation, also 15% stam regen for slotting the ultimate!

Q: I guess that makes you a little tankier... but how else does becoming a werewolf help you with survivability?
A: Well you take 25% increase poison damage and 9% more damage from players with fighters guild unlocked (every veteran level player), as well as increased damage from fighters guild abilities. So people stacking armor or spell pen won't even notice you new improved werewolf hide.

Q: ...?
A: Oh did I mention the one skill you have that is supposed to help with your survivability is a heal that scales off of your lowest stat which is Magicka? Also with the changes to roll dodging and blocking you can cross those off of the list for viable forms of survival.

Q: So sustain in werewolf form must be crazy good!?
A: no, not really, remember that 300 Ultimate you paid to activate werewolf? All that did was gave you access to the werewolf skills, these skills and abilities still cost stamina and magicka, and actually are some of the most expensive abilities in the game, that will drain you of resources faster then you can blink an eye especially the heal!

Q: So really the werewolf it doesn't increase Healing, Damage, or survivability, and actually loweres these in some cases?
A: Yes

Q: So because of its long duration I should be able to build up enough ultimate to transform again or at least have a nice little nest egg built up to use on something elselse right?
A: actually no you don't build up ultimate in werewolf form

Q: you must get some cool passives though! Please!
A: actually you loose any class passive that require slotting of class skills, and also all weapon passives as well, and most of the passives and skills are focused on staying in werewolf form longer. One passive devour makestill you drop your guard for 3 seconds in order to add on about 15 seconds, don't worry it heals your for about 4,000.

Q: Wow sounds like werewolfs are pretty bad... who is looking over this skill line from ZOS?
A: nobody really, they actually think it's pretty solid... hahahahhaa