Magicka NB vs Stamina NB - Imperial City PVP

Benjj · August 2015

I'm a console player so don't have access to the PTS.

So I'm hoping to get a NB levelled up and ready for Imperial City launch, but as a new PVPer I'm struggling to decide between Magicka and Stamina. I don't want to create a character and choose a poor race for the job, so here is my question:

What are your thoughts on Magicka vs Stamina for NB builds according to what we know so far about Imperial City?
Will the dodge roll, CC break changes cause Stamina builds a lot of problems?
What differences can we expect between Magicka and Stamina?
And finally, if you had to choose between a Magicka or Stamina NB, which would you choose and which race would you roll?

Rylana · August 2015

So basically youre asking to be spoonfed the alpha i-win build

hybrid sorc.

Benjj · August 2015

Rylana wrote: »

So basically youre asking to be spoonfed the alpha i-win build

hybrid sorc.

Not really, I thought this would be a good topic of discussion. I don't have an interest in creating a sorc.

Rylana · August 2015

Then why dont you try them both out and find out for yourself when it comes out eh?

Why do you feel the need to have someone else do all the work for you

TheBonesXXX · August 2015

Rylana wrote: »

So basically youre asking to be spoonfed the alpha i-win build

hybrid sorc.

Do you know how hard hybrid sorcs are to make

made mine orc tho

Benjj · August 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Then why dont you try them both out and find out for yourself when it comes out eh?

Why do you feel the need to have someone else do all the work for you

Because like I said in the original post, I don't want to pick a poor race for the build. I also don't have time to level up a NB and then start a new one when I know what I want.

I aren't asking much here mate, just hoping to spark a discussion for people to throw a few ideas around, nothing more.

Reeko · August 2015

For stamina the best races are obviously redguard and imperial, bosmer is ok too.

For magicka you want either Breton or Altmer, Dunmer to a lesser extent.

I play Khajiit however so i'm not tied down to one or the other. Crit% and hp regen is good for anything! Lol

Stamina will still be king in the area of burst damage but magicka has more versatility and survivability.

Mitchblue · August 2015

I hear, that IC is going to be kind to the Magicka NB. Take it fwiw.

Rylana · August 2015

Benjj wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Then why dont you try them both out and find out for yourself when it comes out eh?

Why do you feel the need to have someone else do all the work for you

Because like I said in the original post, I don't want to pick a poor race for the build. I also don't have time to level up a NB and then start a new one when I know what I want.

I aren't asking much here mate, just hoping to spark a discussion for people to throw a few ideas around, nothing more.

Go to a website. Look up the racial passives, compare to PTS patch notes. Do even a modicum of work and it all becomes clear pretty quickly.

God I wish id had such wonderful resources back at launch, I had to actually figure it all out on my own for the most part. Newbies these days, everything is easy cookie cutter

"wut is todays fotm i win build"

"here ya go champ, go win gaem"

Gunphu · August 2015

I would disregard individuals comments that have a negative tone. Playing on PTS is compeletly different then reading proposed patch notes and fixes that on paper look good but in reality do not work. Since you are on console like my self we can only theorycraft and rely upon information on these forums from the PC community or watch twitch.

From what I have seen on twitch IC has mostly very tight corridors and cramped spaces with caltrops EVERYWHERE. This would make the sneaky MNB harder to play unless you go for the ranged swallow soul / destro hit like a noodle spec. Stamina still appears to be the more forgiving and higher burst damage play style. Its just not possible to dodge roll nearly as often.

Oh and it looks like cloak is still not fixed as stated in the patch notes. I read a ZoS post from early 2014 saying that this would be fixed soon back then. Nothing like casting your most expensive spell 2-4 times before it works.

Rylana · August 2015

Gunphu wrote: »

I would disregard individuals comments that have a negative tone. Playing on PTS is compeletly different then reading proposed patch notes and fixes that on paper look good but in reality do not work. Since you are on console like my self we can only theorycraft and rely upon information on these forums from the PC community or watch twitch.

From what I have seen on twitch IC has mostly very tight corridors and cramped spaces with caltrops EVERYWHERE. This would make the sneaky MNB harder to play unless you go for the ranged swallow soul / destro hit like a noodle spec. Stamina still appears to be the more forgiving and higher burst damage play style. Its just not possible to dodge roll nearly as often.

Oh and it looks like cloak is still not fixed as stated in the patch notes. I read a ZoS post from early 2014 saying that this would be fixed soon back then. Nothing like casting your most expensive spell 2-4 times before it works.

Youre missing my entire point. New era, its all new to us too. We have the advantage of pre-existing mechanics and nothing more.

Join us in new discovery instead of expecting us to do it all, is what im saying.

Master_Kas · August 2015

Level a Imperial nightblade.

This way you can both spec for stamina and do good, but if you want to go magicka, you can do good at that aswell

Because you get max health and stam, you can stack points into magicka !

bsmorrowb14_ESO · August 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Gunphu wrote: »

I would disregard individuals comments that have a negative tone. Playing on PTS is compeletly different then reading proposed patch notes and fixes that on paper look good but in reality do not work. Since you are on console like my self we can only theorycraft and rely upon information on these forums from the PC community or watch twitch.

From what I have seen on twitch IC has mostly very tight corridors and cramped spaces with caltrops EVERYWHERE. This would make the sneaky MNB harder to play unless you go for the ranged swallow soul / destro hit like a noodle spec. Stamina still appears to be the more forgiving and higher burst damage play style. Its just not possible to dodge roll nearly as often.

Oh and it looks like cloak is still not fixed as stated in the patch notes. I read a ZoS post from early 2014 saying that this would be fixed soon back then. Nothing like casting your most expensive spell 2-4 times before it works.

Youre missing my entire point. New era, its all new to us too. We have the advantage of pre-existing mechanics and nothing more.

Join us in new discovery instead of expecting us to do it all, is what im saying.

I'm guessing you missed the part where he said he was on console nor does he have the time to dedicate to testing builds.

Tankqull · August 2015

create a template char on the PTS and test what you feel more comfortable with.

Dyride · August 2015

I would second going for Imperial. It allows you to swap between specs very easily.

Xael · August 2015

Benjj wrote: »

I'm a console player so don't have access to the PTS.

So I'm hoping to get a NB levelled up and ready for Imperial City launch, but as a new PVPer I'm struggling to decide between Magicka and Stamina. I don't want to create a character and choose a poor race for the job, so here is my question:

What are your thoughts on Magicka vs Stamina for NB builds according to what we know so far about Imperial City?
Will the dodge roll, CC break changes cause Stamina builds a lot of problems?
What differences can we expect between Magicka and Stamina?
And finally, if you had to choose between a Magicka or Stamina NB, which would you choose and which race would you roll?

You sound like a new player so forgive me if I sound condescending:

Magicka Nightblades have a higher skillcap than Stamina. Especially with the new changes where players are more durable and NB Magicka burst got nerfed (RIP Prox, etc), thus making them more about clutch/sustain niche builds. That's not to say Magicka NB's lack burst, they just require more skill to pull off than the average Stamblade and you have a lot more "outside the box" builds. This of course is predicated on proper movement and awareness, something new players lack and acquire over time.

You could get by if you are a fast learner and do well. That said, Altmer, Breton, or Dunmer all have passive Magicka . Dunmer get extra Fire Resist and Fire damage if you plan on doing destro, Breton has resist and cost reduction, Altmer elemental damage and regen. Can't go wrong with these. Dunmer has the option of transitioning to Stam easier than the other two with passive Stamina.

Or you can go Imperial for extra Health/Stam in case you decide to go Stam in the future. They make a decent Stamina Blade. Or you can go Nord, which get increased health and innate damage reduction by 6%. Lastly Argonian. Argonian are actually really good in v2.1.

With the increase to Health AND stat regen from Potion usage (coupled with NB passive) and greater increase to healing received, it makes them (Argonian) probably my favorite (Magicka) choice. This new meta coming is going to have a lot of damage reduction, meaning stuff like increases to healing and potions is going to be huge. In 1.6 these passives are hard to see considering how fast you can heal to full or die. With these new changes, Argonians will be really good despite the whining.

At the end of the day stats are easy, having a passive though that's unique gives you other options for niche builds.

With Stamina however, the sky is the limit. There are several ways to build and none of them wrong.

edit: @Benjj

Rylana · August 2015

bsmorrowb14_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Gunphu wrote: »

I would disregard individuals comments that have a negative tone. Playing on PTS is compeletly different then reading proposed patch notes and fixes that on paper look good but in reality do not work. Since you are on console like my self we can only theorycraft and rely upon information on these forums from the PC community or watch twitch.

From what I have seen on twitch IC has mostly very tight corridors and cramped spaces with caltrops EVERYWHERE. This would make the sneaky MNB harder to play unless you go for the ranged swallow soul / destro hit like a noodle spec. Stamina still appears to be the more forgiving and higher burst damage play style. Its just not possible to dodge roll nearly as often.

Oh and it looks like cloak is still not fixed as stated in the patch notes. I read a ZoS post from early 2014 saying that this would be fixed soon back then. Nothing like casting your most expensive spell 2-4 times before it works.

Youre missing my entire point. New era, its all new to us too. We have the advantage of pre-existing mechanics and nothing more.

Join us in new discovery instead of expecting us to do it all, is what im saying.

I'm guessing you missed the part where he said he was on console nor does he have the time to dedicate to testing builds.

And we have the time? The console thing is a strawman, he could simply roll a toon, play it, and test it that way, if it doesnt work out, reroll. WE ALL DID THIS.

JDar · August 2015

And finally, if you had to choose between a Magicka or Stamina NB, which would you choose and which race would you roll?

I have played a magicka nightblade since 1.4 because I think it's fun to play that way. I chose khajiit for my nightblade because I roleplay my toons for the most part and I thought it would be fun to do so. By those metrics I believe I chose the best possible build. I think that's what you should think about when you roll a new toon.

I haven't played the PTS but I can't imagine that magicka is really going to be that much more powerful, or that stamina will be much less powerful. From what I have seen of others there is fairly good balance within the class now.

JDar · August 2015

You know I think what happened is that somebody noticed that magicka nightblades might be as viable as stamina in the new patch. Then someone heard that and said magicka nightblades won't suck any more. And it snowballed into magicka nightblade is the new meta.

I already got a hatewhisper and a teabagging for being FOTM class and the patch hasn't even hit yet.

Septimus_Magna · August 2015

I have a Bosmer magicka NB, when I made my char I wanted to try stamina but it was so boring that I switched. Personally I would go for an Altmer magicka NB, you can google Sypher's or Deltia's magicka NB pvp build and use that as a starting point. You can adjust the build along the way to fit your playstyle.

Reeko · August 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I have a Bosmer magicka NB, when I made my char I wanted to try stamina but it was so boring that I switched. Personally I would go for an Altmer magicka NB, you can google Sypher's or Deltia's magicka NB pvp build and use that as a starting point. You can adjust the build along the way to fit your playstyle.

Dark Opportunity has a fun build as well.

MrGrimey · August 2015

Rylana wrote: »

bsmorrowb14_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Gunphu wrote: »

I would disregard individuals comments that have a negative tone. Playing on PTS is compeletly different then reading proposed patch notes and fixes that on paper look good but in reality do not work. Since you are on console like my self we can only theorycraft and rely upon information on these forums from the PC community or watch twitch.

From what I have seen on twitch IC has mostly very tight corridors and cramped spaces with caltrops EVERYWHERE. This would make the sneaky MNB harder to play unless you go for the ranged swallow soul / destro hit like a noodle spec. Stamina still appears to be the more forgiving and higher burst damage play style. Its just not possible to dodge roll nearly as often.

Oh and it looks like cloak is still not fixed as stated in the patch notes. I read a ZoS post from early 2014 saying that this would be fixed soon back then. Nothing like casting your most expensive spell 2-4 times before it works.

Youre missing my entire point. New era, its all new to us too. We have the advantage of pre-existing mechanics and nothing more.

Join us in new discovery instead of expecting us to do it all, is what im saying.

I'm guessing you missed the part where he said he was on console nor does he have the time to dedicate to testing builds.

And we have the time? The console thing is a strawman, he could simply roll a toon, play it, and test it that way, if it doesnt work out, reroll. WE ALL DID THIS.

You apparently have the time to be unhelpful in a thread asking for help. I don't get why people waste their time posting just to be a *** on the forums.

Op: it's hard to say what will be best between Stam and magicka. Imperial or dark elf is a good race to let you switch between both

13igTyme · August 2015

MrGrimey wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

bsmorrowb14_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Gunphu wrote: »

I would disregard individuals comments that have a negative tone. Playing on PTS is compeletly different then reading proposed patch notes and fixes that on paper look good but in reality do not work. Since you are on console like my self we can only theorycraft and rely upon information on these forums from the PC community or watch twitch.

From what I have seen on twitch IC has mostly very tight corridors and cramped spaces with caltrops EVERYWHERE. This would make the sneaky MNB harder to play unless you go for the ranged swallow soul / destro hit like a noodle spec. Stamina still appears to be the more forgiving and higher burst damage play style. Its just not possible to dodge roll nearly as often.

Oh and it looks like cloak is still not fixed as stated in the patch notes. I read a ZoS post from early 2014 saying that this would be fixed soon back then. Nothing like casting your most expensive spell 2-4 times before it works.

Youre missing my entire point. New era, its all new to us too. We have the advantage of pre-existing mechanics and nothing more.

Join us in new discovery instead of expecting us to do it all, is what im saying.

I'm guessing you missed the part where he said he was on console nor does he have the time to dedicate to testing builds.

And we have the time? The console thing is a strawman, he could simply roll a toon, play it, and test it that way, if it doesnt work out, reroll. WE ALL DID THIS.

You apparently have the time to be unhelpful in a thread asking for help. I don't get why people waste their time posting just to be a *** on the forums.

Op: it's hard to say what will be best between Stam and magicka. Imperial or dark elf is a good race to let you switch between both

Plus with Dunmer, you can go vampire easier and get some good regen for either Magicka or stamina.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · August 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Go to a website. Look up the racial passives, compare to PTS patch notes. Do even a modicum of work and it all becomes clear pretty quickly.

God I wish id had such wonderful resources back at launch, I had to actually figure it all out on my own for the most part. Newbies these days, everything is easy cookie cutter

"wut is todays fotm i win build"

"here ya go champ, go win gaem"

You don't sound bitter and hateful at all.

I mean, like, AT ALL.

To the OP, I just rerolled a Dunmer Nightblade for the very reason you're wondering about. With the Dynamic racial passive, you should be able to switch back and forth between Stamina or Magicka as your build focus if you find the need to do so.

I've been playing a Magicka build with my Altmer, but decided I wanted to try Stamina for fun. The Dunmer is proving to be a good choice, since the 9% bonus to Magicka allows for an increased Magicka pool that gives you a little leeway when it comes to cloaking, crowd control, etc.

Either way, like MrGrimey said, you can't go wrong with Dunmer or Imperial if you need time to figure out where you'd rather be on the Magicka-Stamina continuum.

mcurley · August 2015

Don't mind Rylana, OP. He/she has a very elitist attitude, especially towards new players. I guess being around at launch makes them think they are better than everyone else and people who ask questions regarding advice are all just annoying noobs who should find out for themselves. As if we all have the time to put thousands of hours into this game to try everything ourselves... lol. *waits for reply about how it doesn't take thousands of hours to figure out if stam or mag is better*

I prefer a Magicka build to save my stamina for CC-break and dodge rolls. Also, being an invisible assassin fits my play style perfectly. If you choose stamina I'd go for Bosmer, if you choose magicka I'd go for Altmer or Breton. If you don't decide what you're going to do beforehand then roll an Imperial or a Dunmer like the others were saying since their passives are nice for both builds.

bsmorrowb14_ESO · August 2015

Rylana wrote: »

bsmorrowb14_ESO wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Gunphu wrote: »

I would disregard individuals comments that have a negative tone. Playing on PTS is compeletly different then reading proposed patch notes and fixes that on paper look good but in reality do not work. Since you are on console like my self we can only theorycraft and rely upon information on these forums from the PC community or watch twitch.

From what I have seen on twitch IC has mostly very tight corridors and cramped spaces with caltrops EVERYWHERE. This would make the sneaky MNB harder to play unless you go for the ranged swallow soul / destro hit like a noodle spec. Stamina still appears to be the more forgiving and higher burst damage play style. Its just not possible to dodge roll nearly as often.

Oh and it looks like cloak is still not fixed as stated in the patch notes. I read a ZoS post from early 2014 saying that this would be fixed soon back then. Nothing like casting your most expensive spell 2-4 times before it works.

Youre missing my entire point. New era, its all new to us too. We have the advantage of pre-existing mechanics and nothing more.

Join us in new discovery instead of expecting us to do it all, is what im saying.

I'm guessing you missed the part where he said he was on console nor does he have the time to dedicate to testing builds.

And we have the time? The console thing is a strawman, he could simply roll a toon, play it, and test it that way, if it doesnt work out, reroll. WE ALL DID THIS.

Look at your signature, clearly YOU DO have the time.

Ezareth · August 2015

While I know next to nothing about playing as a Magicka NB I can tell you that they are far easier to counter on PTS than Stamina NBs coming from a Stamina NB and I don't believe people saying they are OP in IC know what they're talking about.

Against other classes Magicka may indeed be stronger I can't tell you since I've only played one playstyle on mine.

I don't think you can go wrong with Imperial since their racial is multiplicative with CP stat attributes.

Iggybot · August 2015

Play what works for you. Any build you tailor to your own personal play style will be better than one someone on the internet told you.

Benjj · August 2015

mcurley wrote: »

Don't mind Rylana, OP. He/she has a very elitist attitude, especially towards new players. I guess being around at launch makes them think they are better than everyone else and people who ask questions regarding advice are all just annoying noobs who should find out for themselves. As if we all have the time to put thousands of hours into this game to try everything ourselves... lol. *waits for reply about how it doesn't take thousands of hours to figure out if stam or mag is better*

I prefer a Magicka build to save my stamina for CC-break and dodge rolls. Also, being an invisible assassin fits my play style perfectly. If you choose stamina I'd go for Bosmer, if you choose magicka I'd go for Altmer or Breton. If you don't decide what you're going to do beforehand then roll an Imperial or a Dunmer like the others were saying since their passives are nice for both builds.

Yeah don't worry about it, I wasn't asking for a cookie cutter build or anything else Rylana suggested I was asking for anyways.

I read your post whilst i was leveling my Khajiit Nightblade and realised that Magicka is definitely my preferred attribute. I've rolled an Altmer Nightblade and really enjoying it so far.

Cheers for the input guys it's been a great help.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

I play Stamina Nightblade and i believe ill be pretty un-effected by the change's in imperial City.

1- Dodge Roll Cost Stack : Not a problem, you can use the new buffed cloak and mitigate all single target damage, however many people will be using AoE's as a counter to all the new magicka FoTM/blade's running around. So i will be using Elusive Mist. Elusive Mist give's you 75% damage reduction and last's 4 second's, giving you plenty of time to regen stamina and reset your dodge roll cost stack (green feet). You will also get your super natural recovery passive since it's required to have a ability slotted. Win win.

2- New Siphoning Strike's : You know have a great option to retain your stamina and magicka pool's. Meaning more Elusive Mist's and Dodge Roll's. Not sure, but i hear people confirm and deny caltrop's still work's with this. If so this is great because it mean's you can regen magicka for more Elusive Mist's.

I'll have to do some testing but Poison Mist may proc Siphoning Strike's which would be great, give's the skill more viability. Elusive Mist though is a great escape and should never be underestimated.
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In my opinion i think Magicka Nightblade's are not that good in PTS. In live they are a crazy because of how hard Magicka Det hit's, literally a one shot kill. In pts it's not the same. They just are annoying bug's who spam cloak, nothing a AoE and piercing mark wont fix.

A lot of people will be running caltrop's and AoE's to counter them. So i'm not to worried.

Araxleon · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I play Stamina Nightblade and i believe ill be pretty un-effected by the change's in imperial City.

1- Dodge Roll Cost Stack : Not a problem, you can use the new buffed cloak and mitigate all single target damage, however many people will be using AoE's as a counter to all the new magicka FoTM/blade's running around. So i will be using Elusive Mist. Elusive Mist give's you 75% damage reduction and last's 4 second's, giving you plenty of time to regen stamina and reset your dodge roll cost stack (green feet). You will also get your super natural recovery passive since it's required to have a ability slotted. Win win.

2- New Siphoning Strike's : You know have a great option to retain your stamina and magicka pool's. Meaning more Elusive Mist's and Dodge Roll's. Not sure, but i hear people confirm and deny caltrop's still work's with this. If so this is great because it mean's you can regen magicka for more Elusive Mist's.

I'll have to do some testing but Poison Mist may proc Siphoning Strike's which would be great, give's the skill more viability. Elusive Mist though is a great escape and should never be underestimated.
.
.
.
.
In my opinion i think Magicka Nightblade's are not that good in PTS. In live they are a crazy because of how hard Magicka Det hit's, literally a one shot kill. In pts it's not the same. They just are annoying bug's who spam cloak, nothing a AoE and piercing mark wont fix.

A lot of people will be running caltrop's and AoE's to counter them. So i'm not to worried.

Ohh you would be surprised I managed to make a amazing magicka NB that destroys most stam builds (My main struggles are magicka templar and sorc)

The only stamina builds that killed me or got close HAD to wear shield breaker set.

I think magicka NB will be better for smaller scale and 2vX etc
etc
Where stamina is better in bigger fights and 1vX