More Armor Enchantment options needed!

Fizzlewizzle · August 2015

Currently there are only 3 options when it comes to enchanting armor:
Stamina, Magicka and Health.

Although base stats are useful, having only 3 options for 7 pieces (armor), while you have 18 options for 3 pieces (jewelry) seems a bit strange.
Why aren't the DEFENSIVE Enchantments optional for the armor pieces.

My suggestions.
Keep Jewelry enchantments as they are (all 18 options).
Give armor the options to enchant:
- Health (Current)
- Magicka (Current)
- Stamina (Current)
- Ice Resistance
- Fire Resistance
- Shock Resistance
- Disease Resistance
- Poison Resist.
- Spell Resist
- Add Armor.
- Block cost Reduction.
(11 total)

Offensive bonuses, as well as Regen and Magicka/ Stamina Cost reduction bonuses shouldn't be needed, as Armor is meant for Protection, not offence.
Some might say that Regen might be useful for healing or blocking, but with the IC update you won't gain any Stamina anymore while blocking (hence the reason i did add the Block cost reduction option), and healing is a way to negate health lose, not a way to prevent/ reduce it.

usrevenge · August 2015

you could also add health/magic/stam regen on armor too making it 14 options

though IMO "resist" enchants are kinda weak. at least for disease resist.

starkerealm · August 2015

Spell resist is Nirnhoned, armor up is Reinforced. I mean, the traditional armor enchantment boosts are already in the game, they're just tied to the traits.

usrevenge · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Spell resist is Nirnhoned, armor up is Reinforced. I mean, the traditional armor enchantment boosts are already in the game, they're just tied to the traits.

which is the problem he is talking about.

there are 18 jewelry glyphs but only 3 armor glyphs? why?

if i want spell resist from nirnhoned AND from an enchantment why can't I?

eNumbra · August 2015

7 pieces of armor, 1 shield and 3 Jewelry all enchanted with Regen.

Yeah, that wouldn't be a balancing issue

psychojudge · August 2015

eNumbra wrote: »

7 pieces of armor, 1 shield and 3 Jewelry all enchanted with Regen.

Yeah, that wouldn't be a balancing issue

If everybody can do it it wouldt be a problem

At least to my opinion

Fizzlewizzle · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Spell resist is Nirnhoned, armor up is Reinforced. I mean, the traditional armor enchantment boosts are already in the game, they're just tied to the traits.

Nirnhoned en Reinforced are percentage based bonuses. If your default resistance is low then those traits won't do much.
When you reach endgame (mostly the time people start using Nirnhoned) you probably won't have low defense, but since since base starts doesn't offer much protection, i don't see a problem with adding more.

usrevenge wrote: »

you could also add health/magic/stam regen on armor too making it 14 options

though IMO "resist" enchants are kinda weak. at least for disease resist.

Because of OP-ness (Perma Dodge-rollers, Bolters or other such shenanigans) i don't think any form of regen would be needed.
As i mentioned in the first post, Regen isn't a defensive enchantment, and thus shouldn't be placed on armor pieces.

eNumbra · August 2015

psychojudge wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

7 pieces of armor, 1 shield and 3 Jewelry all enchanted with Regen.

Yeah, that wouldn't be a balancing issue

If everybody can do it it wouldt be a problem

At least to my opinion

Nobody ever running out of resources would be a problem; alternatively I'd stack those 11 enchants with Weapon damage and giga-1-shot anything out of stealth. Then there'd be a hundred more threads a day about how NBs and stealth damage are OP.

starkerealm · August 2015

eNumbra wrote: »

psychojudge wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

7 pieces of armor, 1 shield and 3 Jewelry all enchanted with Regen.

Yeah, that wouldn't be a balancing issue

If everybody can do it it wouldt be a problem

At least to my opinion

Nobody ever running out of resources would be a problem; alternatively I'd stack those 11 enchants with Weapon damage and giga-1-shot anything out of stealth. Then there'd be a hundred more threads a day about how NBs and stealth damage are OP.

Yeah, but until they figured out what you'd done, everyone would be scratching their head at the 129k hits from stealth and whimpering in a dark corner of Bruma.

eNumbra · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Yeah, but until they figured out what you'd done, everyone would be scratching their head at the 129k hits from stealth and whimpering in a dark corner of Bruma.

Gods it would be funny though.

edit: but it would absolutely devolve cyrodiil into one giant game of hide and go pop.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2015

I really think what they need to do to balance damage in the game is to divorce Damage from Magic/Stamina rating (and even Health rating for things like Blazing Shield for that matter). In this matter the armor you wear and the sets and enchantments you use would decide if you're a magicka/stamina dps or a tank or a healer or whatnot. This would also let players change roles more easily via equipment without playing severely gimped characters. I've really been thinking they should do this for a long time honestly.

Arkadius · August 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Currently there are only 3 options when it comes to enchanting armor:
Stamina, Magicka and Health.

This should make the decision easier

starkerealm · August 2015

usrevenge wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Spell resist is Nirnhoned, armor up is Reinforced. I mean, the traditional armor enchantment boosts are already in the game, they're just tied to the traits.

which is the problem he is talking about.

there are 18 jewelry glyphs but only 3 armor glyphs? why?

if i want spell resist from nirnhoned AND from an enchantment why can't I?

If you want to waste cash on that? Be my guest.

The problem is actually kinda simple. Because it's an MMO, you need to be somewhat careful what tools you give the player access to. Armor already carries two enchantments in game now.

I mean, and this is a specific example, but have you ever done an enchanting/alchemy feedback loop in Skyrim?

The way this works is you craft an enchant boosting potion. Which is capped to +25% effectiveness. Then you craft an alchemy boosting enchantment, that would boost your alchemy by 25%, but instead boosts it by 32.75%, then you use that to make a 32.75% boosting alchemy pot, and go back to the enchanting table and it's getting the base +25%, plus the +32.75% potion, to make a beefier enchant. Run this back and forth repeatedly, and eventually you get to the point where you can make absurd enchantments. It completely breaks the game. Ironically, you can even start earlier, and beat out the game's internal limits, without needing to max those skill lines. When you're done, you craft an enchantment for each spell school reducing it's cost by over 100%. And that, is how you break Skyrim.

So, why is armor enchanting limited the way it is? It's to prevent you from creating an unintended interaction, or amplifying it to the point that you'd fully break the game. You have 3 enchanting slots that have interesting effects, and 7 stat ups. Those stat ups are (basically) impossible to break. But, some of the jewelry enchants would open the door to some really messed up situations. 7 regen up glyphs would mean that you'd never, ever, run out of resources. Or... regen health up. Yes, the most useless skill in the game, until you can recover your health faster than most players can quaff a potion? That's a problem.

Also, another reason? Infused. You didn't think of that, probably.

And, before you say, "well if anyone can do it," yes, but, if there is only one legitimate choice in a given situation, then there is an inter character balance issue. Not to be confused with an intracharacter balance issue.

Fizzlewizzle · August 2015

Xiana wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Currently there are only 3 options when it comes to enchanting armor:
Stamina, Magicka and Health.

This should make the decision easier

Wow... at endgame you only have 1 (valid) choice. Sucks even more.
Well, it would bring the total to 4, but tbh. i think that that enchantment is OP and overkill.

starkerealm wrote: »

usrevenge wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Spell resist is Nirnhoned, armor up is Reinforced. I mean, the traditional armor enchantment boosts are already in the game, they're just tied to the traits.

which is the problem he is talking about.

there are 18 jewelry glyphs but only 3 armor glyphs? why?

if i want spell resist from nirnhoned AND from an enchantment why can't I?

If you want to waste cash on that? Be my guest.

The problem is actually kinda simple. Because it's an MMO, you need to be somewhat careful what tools you give the player access to. Armor already carries two enchantments in game now.

I mean, and this is a specific example, but have you ever done an enchanting/alchemy feedback loop in Skyrim?

The way this works is you craft an enchant boosting potion. Which is capped to +25% effectiveness. Then you craft an alchemy boosting enchantment, that would boost your alchemy by 25%, but instead boosts it by 32.75%, then you use that to make a 32.75% boosting alchemy pot, and go back to the enchanting table and it's getting the base +25%, plus the +32.75% potion, to make a beefier enchant. Run this back and forth repeatedly, and eventually you get to the point where you can make absurd enchantments. It completely breaks the game. Ironically, you can even start earlier, and beat out the game's internal limits, without needing to max those skill lines. When you're done, you craft an enchantment for each spell school reducing it's cost by over 100%. And that, is how you break Skyrim.

So, why is armor enchanting limited the way it is? It's to prevent you from creating an unintended interaction, or amplifying it to the point that you'd fully break the game. You have 3 enchanting slots that have interesting effects, and 7 stat ups. Those stat ups are (basically) impossible to break. But, some of the jewelry enchants would open the door to some really messed up situations. 7 regen up glyphs would mean that you'd never, ever, run out of resources. Or... regen health up. Yes, the most useless skill in the game, until you can recover your health faster than most players can quaff a potion? That's a problem.

Also, another reason? Infused. You didn't think of that, probably.

And, before you say, "well if anyone can do it," yes, but, if there is only one legitimate choice in a given situation, then there is an inter character balance issue. Not to be confused with an intracharacter balance issue.

The whole skyrim-uber-OP-rotation-exploittemejigger thingy was based around a Equipment crafting potions combined with potion crafting equipment. Neither of those two things are in this game, so no matter what type of enchantment they would allow, creating such exploit is impossible.

starkerealm · August 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Xiana wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Currently there are only 3 options when it comes to enchanting armor:
Stamina, Magicka and Health.

This should make the decision easier

Wow... at endgame you only have 1 (valid) choice. Sucks even more.
Well, it would bring the total to 4, but tbh. i think that that enchantment is OP and overkill.

It's bonus up is actually lower than a single stat up enchant at that level would be. A VR14 glyph is about 20% higher. So, if you're running hybrid builds, it's a major boon. If you're running a straight stam, magicka, or health build, it's a lot of work for a serious step down.

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

usrevenge wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Spell resist is Nirnhoned, armor up is Reinforced. I mean, the traditional armor enchantment boosts are already in the game, they're just tied to the traits.

which is the problem he is talking about.

there are 18 jewelry glyphs but only 3 armor glyphs? why?

if i want spell resist from nirnhoned AND from an enchantment why can't I?

If you want to waste cash on that? Be my guest.

The problem is actually kinda simple. Because it's an MMO, you need to be somewhat careful what tools you give the player access to. Armor already carries two enchantments in game now.

I mean, and this is a specific example, but have you ever done an enchanting/alchemy feedback loop in Skyrim?

The way this works is you craft an enchant boosting potion. Which is capped to +25% effectiveness. Then you craft an alchemy boosting enchantment, that would boost your alchemy by 25%, but instead boosts it by 32.75%, then you use that to make a 32.75% boosting alchemy pot, and go back to the enchanting table and it's getting the base +25%, plus the +32.75% potion, to make a beefier enchant. Run this back and forth repeatedly, and eventually you get to the point where you can make absurd enchantments. It completely breaks the game. Ironically, you can even start earlier, and beat out the game's internal limits, without needing to max those skill lines. When you're done, you craft an enchantment for each spell school reducing it's cost by over 100%. And that, is how you break Skyrim.

So, why is armor enchanting limited the way it is? It's to prevent you from creating an unintended interaction, or amplifying it to the point that you'd fully break the game. You have 3 enchanting slots that have interesting effects, and 7 stat ups. Those stat ups are (basically) impossible to break. But, some of the jewelry enchants would open the door to some really messed up situations. 7 regen up glyphs would mean that you'd never, ever, run out of resources. Or... regen health up. Yes, the most useless skill in the game, until you can recover your health faster than most players can quaff a potion? That's a problem.

Also, another reason? Infused. You didn't think of that, probably.

And, before you say, "well if anyone can do it," yes, but, if there is only one legitimate choice in a given situation, then there is an inter character balance issue. Not to be confused with an intracharacter balance issue.

The whole skyrim-uber-OP-rotation-exploittemejigger thingy was based around a Equipment crafting potions combined with potion crafting equipment. Neither of those two things are in this game, so no matter what type of enchantment they would allow, creating such exploit is impossible.

That's an example. I mean, I finished out some of the Skyrim achievements by wedging a 360 controller against my desk, and making dinner while my character cast detect life for 30 minutes. And that was without exploiting that feedback loop. But, that is the problem with having a larger array of interacting mechanics. Something like that will, sooner or later, slip through. Unlike in a single player game, we're all going to hear about it, once it gets exported to Cyrodiil.

Rev Rielle · August 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

....
Offensive bonuses, as well as Regen and Magicka/ Stamina Cost reduction bonuses shouldn't be needed, as Armor is meant for Protection, not offence.

If this was the case stamina and magicka should be removed too, but they won't be so having regeneration as well makes sense.

That being said, I do agree that it would be nice if there were a lot more options!

Prof_Bawbag · August 2015

I think they kept the options down so finding armour is worthwhile. Take Skyrim for example, there was zero need to go out looking for armour or weapons because everything you found was garbage compared to what you could make.

Fizzlewizzle · August 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Xiana wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Currently there are only 3 options when it comes to enchanting armor:
Stamina, Magicka and Health.

This should make the decision easier

Wow... at endgame you only have 1 (valid) choice. Sucks even more.
Well, it would bring the total to 4, but tbh. i think that that enchantment is OP and overkill.

It's bonus up is actually lower than a single stat up enchant at that level would be. A VR14 glyph is about 20% higher. So, if you're running hybrid builds, it's a major boon. If you're running a straight stam, magicka, or health build, it's a lot of work for a serious step down.

Had to walk to an enchanting table to check, and you're right. Even a White Vr14 enchantment is Higher.
Although they are less overkill then i thought, still seems pretty useless.

As a Vampire or Werewolf (or as a general player) having some added resistances against your weakness stats seems much better than 5K extra resources. Having to give up your Regen or offense to lower your weakness seems counterproductive. You might not get killed so fast, but either you have an extended battle because your damage is lower, or run out of resources altogether because your sustain is gone.
But, that's just my thought.

starkerealm wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

usrevenge wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Spell resist is Nirnhoned, armor up is Reinforced. I mean, the traditional armor enchantment boosts are already in the game, they're just tied to the traits.

which is the problem he is talking about.

there are 18 jewelry glyphs but only 3 armor glyphs? why?

if i want spell resist from nirnhoned AND from an enchantment why can't I?

If you want to waste cash on that? Be my guest.

The problem is actually kinda simple. Because it's an MMO, you need to be somewhat careful what tools you give the player access to. Armor already carries two enchantments in game now.

I mean, and this is a specific example, but have you ever done an enchanting/alchemy feedback loop in Skyrim?

The way this works is you craft an enchant boosting potion. Which is capped to +25% effectiveness. Then you craft an alchemy boosting enchantment, that would boost your alchemy by 25%, but instead boosts it by 32.75%, then you use that to make a 32.75% boosting alchemy pot, and go back to the enchanting table and it's getting the base +25%, plus the +32.75% potion, to make a beefier enchant. Run this back and forth repeatedly, and eventually you get to the point where you can make absurd enchantments. It completely breaks the game. Ironically, you can even start earlier, and beat out the game's internal limits, without needing to max those skill lines. When you're done, you craft an enchantment for each spell school reducing it's cost by over 100%. And that, is how you break Skyrim.

So, why is armor enchanting limited the way it is? It's to prevent you from creating an unintended interaction, or amplifying it to the point that you'd fully break the game. You have 3 enchanting slots that have interesting effects, and 7 stat ups. Those stat ups are (basically) impossible to break. But, some of the jewelry enchants would open the door to some really messed up situations. 7 regen up glyphs would mean that you'd never, ever, run out of resources. Or... regen health up. Yes, the most useless skill in the game, until you can recover your health faster than most players can quaff a potion? That's a problem.

Also, another reason? Infused. You didn't think of that, probably.

And, before you say, "well if anyone can do it," yes, but, if there is only one legitimate choice in a given situation, then there is an inter character balance issue. Not to be confused with an intracharacter balance issue.

The whole skyrim-uber-OP-rotation-exploittemejigger thingy was based around a Equipment crafting potions combined with potion crafting equipment. Neither of those two things are in this game, so no matter what type of enchantment they would allow, creating such exploit is impossible.

That's an example. I mean, I finished out some of the Skyrim achievements by wedging a 360 controller against my desk, and making dinner while my character cast detect life for 30 minutes. And that was without exploiting that feedback loop. But, that is the problem with having a larger array of interacting mechanics. Something like that will, sooner or later, slip through. Unlike in a single player game, we're all going to hear about it, once it gets exported to Cyrodiil.

I understand that.
Everyone who has played skyrim knows at least a few tricks which can be considered exploiting.
In this game, with the suggestion i made, i doubt that would happen, as the bonuses i suggest are already in the game without any trouble.
(I say doubt, as the jewelry does not come with traits, which makes this mechanic in some ways "new" and unpredictable)

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

....
Offensive bonuses, as well as Regen and Magicka/ Stamina Cost reduction bonuses shouldn't be needed, as Armor is meant for Protection, not offence.

If this was the case stamina and magicka should be removed too, but they won't be so having regeneration as well makes sense.

That being said, I do agree that it would be nice if there were a lot more options!

Base stats run out. Regen slows or even prevents that from doing so.
I have 3K+ Magicka regen in 7/7 heavy armor (Argonian Templar). If i could double that (which seems possible with 7 or 8 more enchantments) i could spam skills endlessly without running out of magicka.

Thing about the Perma Shield Stackers, Perma Dodge rollers and Perma heal Spammers, and tell me again.
Would you like it if people had 7 or 8 more regen enchantments?

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I think they kept the options down so finding armour is worthwhile. Take Skyrim for example, there was zero need to go out looking for armour or weapons because everything you found was garbage compared to what you could make.

You can place enchantments on items you find.
The only difference you have between crafted and found items is when it comes to set bonuses, which are different.