Just saying ..

OzJohnD · August 2015

I left a guild last night ... GM paid a million gold for a Guild Store vendor and now complains he doesn't have enough guild funds to keep the same "awesome" location vendor.

I left another guild last night ... GM apologised because he lost a bid for an "awesome" vendor and wants regular weekly "donations" to increase the bid funds. Stupid thing is the I found an unallocated Guild Store vendor in Coldharbour (right next to the wayshrine) which actually was the same guild that "missed out" on a named vendor, wasn't named as such like some others, this was un-named so I didn't see it was my guild until I opened up the store menu.

Not liking this obsession with sinking gold into an ever escalating bidding war for guild store vendor locations. ZO you have a winner !

I left a third guild last night because the GM has for weeks, changed the MOD almost hourly every single day ... and now insists on a damn code word (to be changed regularly) to be added to my guild roster note to indicate that I am "active"

Oh well, I guess am a solo player after all

Epona222 · August 2015

The 'unhired' vendor you saw was due to a visual bug, I am a GM of a trading guild and have been caught out by that bug a few times now- just because it LOOKS unhired, does not mean it hasn't been hired.

Also you're being extremely harsh, running a trading guild is hard work and often requires input of personal cash reserves - if you think you can do better, start a trading guild - but don't come back here moaning about it when you see the reality.

Gaiden'Densetsu · August 2015

Blah, get rid of this crap ass system and just put in an auction house already.

Mojmir · August 2015

at one time i had all trade guilds thinking i could "corner the market". sadly same thing,power corrupts and leads to assinine decision making and the guild to pay for it. im down to 3,soon to drop one for the constant spamming MOD stating we need donations! raffles soon to come!!
if you need a trade guild thats easy on the spam and more laid back let me know.

stojekarcub18_ESO · August 2015

This system is just as frustrating to the buyers as it is to the sellers.

Mojmir · August 2015

i use a couple of addons that make it so much easier and less bearing. master merchant and awesome guild store. i hardly ever need a price check or to haggle with pricing.

Gaiden'Densetsu · August 2015

With this system there will never be a stable economy. I mean really how hard would it be to add a central AH.

Mojmir · August 2015

Epona222 wrote: »

The 'unhired' vendor you saw was due to a visual bug, I am a GM of a trading guild and have been caught out by that bug a few times now- just because it LOOKS unhired, does not mean it hasn't been hired.

Also you're being extremely harsh, running a trading guild is hard work and often requires input of personal cash reserves - if you think you can do better, start a trading guild - but don't come back here moaning about it when you see the reality.

i have nothing but the highest respect for trade guildmasters, but when they get in over their heads or do it for the wrong reasons in tarnishes the position for alot fo ppl, BTW which guild R U running?

Epona222 · August 2015

The problem is, that with competition as it is for trader kiosks, you can't do it without asking for input from the members. Nice idea as that is, the tax income from a trader is unlikely to pay for more than a third of what it costs to hire the trader. Different guilds have different ways of dealing with that - some stay in a very cheap spot where sales will be low but it doesn't cost a lot, some go for a better spot and have to actively sell raffle tickets or ask for donations- otherwise you are just coasting along selling stuff at a trader that the GM has paid for out of their own pocket.

Gaiden'Densetsu · August 2015

**** it, I call for a strike, no more bidding on trader spots no more buying or selling in this crap system. LOL it might kick them in the ass enough to change things, but im just on a drunken ramble dont mind me.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Epona222 · August 2015

Mojmir wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

The 'unhired' vendor you saw was due to a visual bug, I am a GM of a trading guild and have been caught out by that bug a few times now- just because it LOOKS unhired, does not mean it hasn't been hired.

Also you're being extremely harsh, running a trading guild is hard work and often requires input of personal cash reserves - if you think you can do better, start a trading guild - but don't come back here moaning about it when you see the reality.

i have nothing but the highest respect for trade guildmasters, but when they get in over their heads or do it for the wrong reasons in tarnishes the position for alot fo ppl, BTW which guild R U running?

I am GM of Ghost Sea Trading Co which is a no-hassle guild - no dues or requirements, I run a raffle but it is entirely voluntary and I do not send out mass mails, only update the MOTD once or twice a week. I understand that people do not want to be pestered.

I also co-run Sanguine's Antiquities, which is similarly no-hassle. No dues, voluntary raffle.

Mojmir · August 2015

Epona222 wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

The 'unhired' vendor you saw was due to a visual bug, I am a GM of a trading guild and have been caught out by that bug a few times now- just because it LOOKS unhired, does not mean it hasn't been hired.

Also you're being extremely harsh, running a trading guild is hard work and often requires input of personal cash reserves - if you think you can do better, start a trading guild - but don't come back here moaning about it when you see the reality.

i have nothing but the highest respect for trade guildmasters, but when they get in over their heads or do it for the wrong reasons in tarnishes the position for alot fo ppl, BTW which guild R U running?

I am GM of Ghost Sea Trading Co which is a no-hassle guild - no dues or requirements, I run a raffle but it is entirely voluntary and I do not send out mass mails, only update the MOTD once or twice a week. I understand that people do not want to be pestered.

I also co-run Sanguine's Antiquities, which is similarly no-hassle. No dues, voluntary raffle.

ive heard of ghost sea, pretty good selection

Epona222 · August 2015

Mojmir wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

The 'unhired' vendor you saw was due to a visual bug, I am a GM of a trading guild and have been caught out by that bug a few times now- just because it LOOKS unhired, does not mean it hasn't been hired.

Also you're being extremely harsh, running a trading guild is hard work and often requires input of personal cash reserves - if you think you can do better, start a trading guild - but don't come back here moaning about it when you see the reality.

i have nothing but the highest respect for trade guildmasters, but when they get in over their heads or do it for the wrong reasons in tarnishes the position for alot fo ppl, BTW which guild R U running?

I am GM of Ghost Sea Trading Co which is a no-hassle guild - no dues or requirements, I run a raffle but it is entirely voluntary and I do not send out mass mails, only update the MOTD once or twice a week. I understand that people do not want to be pestered.

I also co-run Sanguine's Antiquities, which is similarly no-hassle. No dues, voluntary raffle.

ive heard of ghost sea, pretty good selection

That comment has actually made my day, thank you

Gaiden'Densetsu · August 2015

BTW im in 5 good guilds I have no problems with, I just would much rather have an AH than to have to search different guilds to find something. Maybe a search feature that could search through all the guilds, then you would just have to travel to that vendor for what you want.

Epona222 · August 2015

Gaiden'Densetsu wrote: »

BTW im in 5 good guilds I have no problems with, I just would much rather have an AH than to have to search different guilds to find something. Maybe a search feature that could search through all the guilds, then you would just have to travel to that vendor for what you want.

I agree with that. I don't really want to see the current system go, because although it is a ton of work, I really love running a trading guild and it keeps me playing the game. But a better method of searching for items more widely than having to trek around 20 zones would be an improvement.

Tholian1 · August 2015

Just turn it into a lottery system. It's all play money after all.

Mojmir · August 2015

Epona222 wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

The 'unhired' vendor you saw was due to a visual bug, I am a GM of a trading guild and have been caught out by that bug a few times now- just because it LOOKS unhired, does not mean it hasn't been hired.

Also you're being extremely harsh, running a trading guild is hard work and often requires input of personal cash reserves - if you think you can do better, start a trading guild - but don't come back here moaning about it when you see the reality.

i have nothing but the highest respect for trade guildmasters, but when they get in over their heads or do it for the wrong reasons in tarnishes the position for alot fo ppl, BTW which guild R U running?

I am GM of Ghost Sea Trading Co which is a no-hassle guild - no dues or requirements, I run a raffle but it is entirely voluntary and I do not send out mass mails, only update the MOTD once or twice a week. I understand that people do not want to be pestered.

I also co-run Sanguine's Antiquities, which is similarly no-hassle. No dues, voluntary raffle.

ive heard of ghost sea, pretty good selection

That comment has actually made my day, thank you

Yw,fight the good fight

Epona222 · August 2015

Tholian1 wrote: »

Just turn it into a lottery system. It's all play money after all.

With blind bidding, that is pretty much what it is anyway

Artheiron · August 2015

I'm always open for new ideas in mmorpgs and trading guilds system is one of them. core of the idea is good. local stores with different prices. But in a game you can teleport here to there this doesnt make any sense.

Also, there is no good way to advertise your trading guild so this causes guild trader monopoly. For instance some guilds are pushing their limits to hire their trader in the craglorn each week.

can we save it?
easy way: ditch the trader idea and give a AH like any other mmo has. or integrate master merchant.

hard way: make trading itself a mini game. add speechcrafting/haggle systems. let's say both hired traders and players can improve their speechcrafting level by haggling. more a trader and a player sells/buy pushing their haggling skills more xp they gain. You suck at it? you buy higher sell cheaper. And of course a leaderboard that show players/guilds position.

I know this is yet another stupid player idea, but if you like it click spoiler for an example.

B = buyer T=guild trader S=seller

S = gives an item to T to sell for 1000g, price automatically sets between 900-1200g. (higher the trading level higher min price closer to your price)
B with level 10 trading skill buys an item from T for 1000g after successfully dropped the price from 1200g
T with level 15 trading skill recieves X amount of xp and becomes less likely to drop the price next time.
S with level 20 trading skill recieves 1000g -tax.

it's harder to lower the price gap when you list if T > S
it's harder to lower the price if B<T

As a result of this trading, guild recieves points, and their name starts to shine in the "trading leaderboards".

Guild trader's level resets once another guild claims it.
Guild loses points if another guild claims their trader.
Some traders can only be bid/hired by higer point guilds.
When a player becomes higher level trader, they can reduce the min/max price gap when they list their items.
Item values effect the xp gain.
Crafted items that has purple/gold quality effect the xp gain.
Crafters' name on tooltips start to turn from white to gold color when they sell more.
Crafters got seperated leaderboards.
Top seller crafters can increase item's stats up to %1-3

I'm pretty sure someone who knows financial stuff better than me can easily find an expolit in this idea. but I tried! : P

I was tired when I wrote this, so I prolly screwed up the grammar there a lot, sorry in advance.

Tholian1 · August 2015

Epona222 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Just turn it into a lottery system. It's all play money after all.

With blind bidding, that is pretty much what it is anyway

Well that's sort of true.

Another idea would be to do like they do in Riften and put all the kiosks in less than prime locations. Maybe that would cut down on some of the outrageous bids. Or maybe not.

RatedChaotic · August 2015

Gaiden'Densetsu wrote: »

Blah, get rid of this crap ass system and just put in an auction house already.

^^ ya this is by far the worst trading system ive seen in years of mmos

Drake_Fury · August 2015

I really don't like the buying/selling system. I deal with it because I like the game overall but selling and buying is really annoying.

I just yesterday got a guild with a merchant, finally! But unfortunately, the merchand is located in an isolated part of the world where I'm sure very few people will go look.

This system favorising only the rich guilds is very annoying. I would gladly pay 10k a week to be able to have a guild trader in craglorn, since 5k is pretty easy to make, and 500 players paying 5k a week is a whopping 2 500 000 gold a week, going to 5M if players give 10k. But getting a guild with 500 players who are active and willing to pay that price is near imposible. (If you're recruiting for one on PS4, feel free to send me a PSN message to "drakefury" and I'll gladly drop one of my almost useless guilds to join it).

I've put 2 pieces of VR14 Martial knowledge gear at about 75% of the prices I saw in Craglorn and Mournhold, and I'm not even sure if anyone saw them since my trader is so far from any other...

Buying isn't any easier than selling. having to go through nearly 100 different traders withouteven knowing if you will find what you're looking for is horrible. And even then, you need to re-enter your search on every single merhand, the system doesn't remember your last selection except for the first 3 categories, and even then you need to reselect the first and third to make sure the system takes them into account...

I would beall for an auction house, but I don't think it's possible in a megaserver environnement. But something in between. A search board thatsearches through all of an area's traders would at least be a beginning. It would help buyers find stuff 10x faster, and it would give more visibility to traders in isolated places. If a player can search through all guild traders by doing 17 searches instead of 100, they would most likely search more, instead of only buying in craglorn...

Farorin · August 2015

I am in one guild which does require either sales, purchases OR raffles weekly, which isn't so bad considering I usually meet the quota without trying and I don't even trade that much.

But in general, I feel you, I have left a bunch of guilds because of pushy or over active guild masters, and enforced requirements.

A pet hate of mine is when teamspeak is required for things, if that is the case, I generally don't stick in the guild for long, as I have no interest listening to a bunch of people ramble on about crap when I could be listening to music, or having fun actually playing the game.

delushin · August 2015

We tried to get a stand on PS4 but could never win the bids, we did for a little bit put a requirement for Veteran ranks to donate a weekly sum to build the reserves to buy a stand, this lead to 3 unsuccessful bids.

We reviewed the player experience and community values that we have and have since canned any attempt to bother with guild traders. Of course our members are welcome to join trading guilds and such but as a guild it doesn't bring the benefit.

I would rather have 50 active members logging in having fun and helping each other out grinding mats or crafting what not here and there, then 300 just to get a stand going.

I do take my hat off to the trading guilds that are fair and get it right, would rather an AH though.

ADarklore · August 2015

Here is what I hate about the current 'bidding' system. You have a few favorite vendor locations who you can usually find things you need at, then suddenly the Guild Traders change, and suddenly you go to these vendors and some have NOTHING you need. I just can't figure out how Guild Traders win prime locations when they have so little items for sale, even basic stuff. So it gets frustrating for a buyer as well because some GTs just don't seem to maintain item stock like others do- yet they end up with prime locations just so they can sell... nothing. These are probably the ones seeking donations so they can buy a spot- but why buy a spot if your members aren't selling anything?!?

Techlisp · August 2015

I left a trading guild that never once had a guild vendor.

OzJohnD · August 2015

@Epona222 ... fully respect the hard work done by GMs ... but there is a difference between hard work and the overwhelming stupidity of giving ZO millions of in game currency in a guild store vendor bidding war. The GMs loss of coin is self inflicted.

I have two guilds I am happy with, no BS from the GMs ... one a trade guild where I still have constantly 30 items for sale, voluntary donations, voluntary raffles ... the other a player help type guild assisting newer players to become master crafters

Used to be in a Vampire guild but they set restrictive rules on who I could bite, so I went back to just going to the shrine at cool down and biting a random.

Each to their own.

I guess my main gripe is with ZO who designed the current player to player buy/sell system

Elsonso · August 2015

OzJohnD wrote: »

I left a third guild last night because the GM has for weeks, changed the MOD almost hourly every single day ... and now insists on a damn code word (to be changed regularly) to be added to my guild roster note to indicate that I am "active"

ZOS failed to put in "last visit" information on the consoles, so the GMs have no way to tell whether someone is regularly logging in or not. I am not saying that this is the best alternative for guilds that want to weed out inactives, but it seems to be one that could work.

KiraTsukasa · August 2015

And this is exactly why the idea of needing to be in a guild to sell stuff is ridiculous.

TheShadowScout · August 2015

Eh... some guilds are worse then others I suppose. But who am I to talk, the only guild I ever joined was as a favor to a friend who since left ESO, and staying out of habit... if they started any stuff like that, I'd leave.

See, that's what guilds are for me - places to connect with friends, for possible roleplaying reasons and maybe the occasional dungeon runs. The trading and such, that's secondary for me. And the trouble with trading seems to be a major source of guild drama...

starkerealm · August 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

OzJohnD wrote: »

I left a third guild last night because the GM has for weeks, changed the MOD almost hourly every single day ... and now insists on a damn code word (to be changed regularly) to be added to my guild roster note to indicate that I am "active"

ZOS failed to put in "last visit" information on the consoles, so the GMs have no way to tell whether someone is regularly logging in or not. I am not saying that this is the best alternative for guilds that want to weed out inactives, but it seems to be one that could work.

Oh... wow... that's. What the shank?

When they mentioned this I was sitting here thinking, "but I can always see how long someone's been inactive for, why would you need something like... oooh."