Guild SCAMMERS REWARDED in ESO [MONOPOLIZING GUILDS FOR PROFIT]

Liffy316 · August 2015

Howdy all,

I used to be an advocate for the guild trader system until last night when one of my guilds hosted a big raffle, with payouts up to 400k which spanned weeks.When the closing of the lotto came time, the owner disbanded the entire guild. Now, I am not sure how much he profited but I am guessing its in the upwards of 3-4 million over the span of the guild. You have to think the traders expired on Sunday and he had it in Mournhold (I think). I myself lost some money, which of course isn't getting refunded. I tried. No biggie, I still have close to a million. But I really feel sorry for those newbies and other people who struggle with money. This is a neverending loop.. People have to pay membership fees or donations every week or two. Where does all this profit from the guild trader go? not to the guild. It goes straight to the owner of the guild.

I find it really difficult to understand how a game can reward someone for, when they decide to quit or just stop playing, they profit insanely and at the expense of others. OHHH, don't forget how everyone has to pay weekly just to succumb like slaves to the guild owner, who is secretly going to just take millions of gold at some point in time. Think about it. EVERY TRADING GUILD leader is eventually going to take/steal/profit from all the hardworking citizens of Tamriel.

I am sure situations like this happen all the time. Shoot, it makes me want to start a trading guild for a month or so just so I can pocket a few million gold.

Is there any consequences for such things like this. Yeah people voluntarily put money in the lotto, but the deception is off the charts. Same with the 'new' trade window scamming. Is ZOS doing anything to help manage the awful monopolizing democracy of a game this is?

Sorry for the rant, but people need to be careful.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming comments]

sadownik · August 2015

Liffy316 wrote: »

Howdy all,

I used to be an advocate for the guild trader system until last night when one of my guilds hosted a big raffle, with payouts up to 400k which spanned weeks. When the closing of the lotto came time, the owner disbanded the entire guild. Now, I am not sure how much he profited but I am guessing its in the upwards of 3-4 million over the span of the guild. You have to think the traders expired on Sunday and he had it in Mournhold (I think). I myself lost some money, which of course isn't getting refunded. I tried. No biggie, I still have close to a million. But I really feel sorry for those newbies and other people who struggle with money. This is a neverending loop.. People have to pay membership fees or donations every week or two. Where does all this profit from the guild trader go? not to the guild. It goes straight to the owner of the guild.

I find it really difficult to understand how a game can reward someone for, when they decide to quit or just stop playing, they profit insanely and at the expense of others. OHHH, don't forget how everyone has to pay weekly just to succumb like slaves to the guild owner, who is secretly going to just take millions of gold at some point in time. Think about it. EVERY TRADING GUILD leader is eventually going to take/steal/profit from all the hardworking citizens of Tamriel.

I am sure situations like this happen all the time. Shoot, it makes me want to start a trading guild for a month or so just so I can pocket a few million gold.

Is there any consequences for such things like this. Yeah people voluntarily put money in the lotto, but the deception is off the charts. Same with the 'new' trade window scamming. Is ZOS doing anything to help manage the awful monopolizing/communist/half-arse democracy of a game this is?

Sorry for the rant, but people need to be careful.

Mate its all in the design. With that trade system cunning people get rewarded thats it.

IOUAT · August 2015

oh dear

UrQuan · August 2015

Prepare for this thread to be edited to comply with the "no naming and shaming" rules of the forums.

That said, have you spoken with CS about this? It seems like they should be able to do something about a scam like this...

Kobaal · August 2015

SIXR_sCaR · August 2015

I feel bad for you really but

26fab485e850ff30be5d03a628442dc7ea7821ee7dfbed623ea95e7eb0d3acc1.jpg

SirAndy · August 2015

I'm a guild master and i haven't taken a single penny from the guild bank. I use the funds to bid on a Trader every week, that's it.

Also, everyone in my guild can see the guild logs that show you exactly what happened to the money, who did what with how much and when.

Elsonso · August 2015

Seems sort of over the top to blame guild trader system for this...

CFodder1977 · August 2015

You got lucky. Most "trading" guilds on console right now are coupling the monthly raffle scam alongside mandatory weekly membership fees. Once people invest in the guild raffle they slap them with a weekly membership fee. You need to maintain your "good standing" in the guild by paying your weekly membership fee. If you don't pay the membership fee you cannot collect any potential raffle winnings. My advice to everyone is that the second you see a guild host a raffle or start charging membership fees, immediately leave.

Mojmir · August 2015

i dont do the raffles

CFodder1977 wrote: »

You got lucky. Most "trading" guilds on console right now are coupling the monthly raffle scam alongside mandatory weekly membership fees. Once people invest in the guild raffle they slap them with a weekly membership fee. You need to maintain your "good standing" in the guild by paying your weekly membership fee. If you don't pay the membership fee you cannot collect any potential raffle winnings. My advice to everyone is that the second you see a guild host a raffle or start charging membership fees, immediately leave.

yup, i have one guild that does raffles and theyre legit,but ive seen others that demand fees up front,guilds can be like buying used cars

Kobaal · August 2015

Not sure why you would pay to be in a guild. I'm in a few trading guilds with Traders in Wayrest and Mournhold. Neither require dues. However if you don't list anything on the traders for a while they will kick you out, and that's only fair in my opinion.

Prof_Bawbag · August 2015

CFodder1977 wrote: »

You got lucky. Most "trading" guilds on console right now are coupling the monthly raffle scam alongside mandatory weekly membership fees. Once people invest in the guild raffle they slap them with a weekly membership fee. You need to maintain your "good standing" in the guild by paying your weekly membership fee. If you don't pay the membership fee you cannot collect any potential raffle winnings. My advice to everyone is that the second you see a guild host a raffle or start charging membership fees, immediately leave.

Yeah, a guild i was in began demanding money for their services. I thought for a split second and left. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I have never struggled to sell anything in any guild I've been a part of and almost all sell the same stuff for the same prices. Then there's the grouping thing, maybe it's just due to the lower numbers on LIVE, but I have more luck running group dungeons with randoms than I do getting other guild members to join up.

starkerealm · August 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Seems sort of over the top to blame guild trader system for this...

Look what you've done. You've got me agreeing with Richter, and you know how crazy that makes me. :P

Rastoric · August 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Seems sort of over the top to blame guild trader system for this...

Why? It's exactly the reason it happened. Big trade guilds pay millions of gold for the prime locations and a guild leader can exploit this reason to profit. There is no accountability for how "Raffle money", donations or Trader profit is spent. Some guilds are more open in how they spend it, but it comes down to trust and most don't really care as long as the guild keeps a good spot.

Liffy316 · August 2015

CFodder1977 wrote: »

You got lucky. Most "trading" guilds on console right now are coupling the monthly raffle scam alongside mandatory weekly membership fees. Once people invest in the guild raffle they slap them with a weekly membership fee. You need to maintain your "good standing" in the guild by paying your weekly membership fee. If you don't pay the membership fee you cannot collect any potential raffle winnings. My advice to everyone is that the second you see a guild host a raffle or start charging membership fees, immediately leave.

This is the exact issue. The standard of guild protocol and with the way the economy is makes guild act this way. Don't get me wrong, there are some legit guilds out there but the way trading guilds behave is toxic for an "immersive" game.

Liffy316 · August 2015

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm a guild master and i haven't taken a single penny from the guild bank. I use the funds to bid on a Trader every week, that's it.

Also, everyone in my guild can see the guild logs that show you exactly what happened to the money, who did what with how much and when.

Well in this case, no one knew what hit them until the whole guild was disbanded and he took all the lotto / raffle donations that he persuaded everyone in. I did think it was strange when he posted a message that read "Thanks to the one individual who donated 500k and 2 dwemer motifs for this week lotto. He doesn't want to win anything nor does he want his name mentioned so don't ask." Too bad this was after the fact.

Audigy · August 2015

Maybe people at this forum who play on your realm could collect some gold to soothe the pain for you?

As for guilds in MMO´s not just ESO, its always a gamble if you are new and it can still be a gamble if you are a seasoned member. The guild leader is in charge, its him or her who makes the calls - don't like them, well you are out.

I did run two guilds myself, not in ESO though and tried to make it pleasant for everyone, yet sometimes you just can not do this. While I never canned anyone, I had to also bench people or even remove them for the well of the guild. Maybe that's also why I stopped with the guild thing back in the days, I always felt sorry for the others

Anyways,

my advice for joining guilds at ESO is to never pay money in advance and to make screenshots if someone promises you something for your payment. By doing so you can just get back to the game masters and ask for help if someone just kicks you out, after promising you a spot for the next month if you pay extra.

Rikal · August 2015

Auction House. It has it's pros and cons. At least the cons wouldn't be able to perpetrate cons like this, under a system where players could buy and sell without joining guilds they really don't want to be in.

icontested · August 2015

Liffy316 wrote: »

Howdy all,

I used to be an advocate for the guild trader system until last night when one of my guilds hosted a big raffle, with payouts up to 400k which spanned weeks.When the closing of the lotto came time, the owner disbanded the entire guild. Now, I am not sure how much he profited but I am guessing its in the upwards of 3-4 million over the span of the guild. You have to think the traders expired on Sunday and he had it in Mournhold (I think). I myself lost some money, which of course isn't getting refunded. I tried. No biggie, I still have close to a million. But I really feel sorry for those newbies and other people who struggle with money. This is a neverending loop.. People have to pay membership fees or donations every week or two. Where does all this profit from the guild trader go? not to the guild. It goes straight to the owner of the guild.

I find it really difficult to understand how a game can reward someone for, when they decide to quit or just stop playing, they profit insanely and at the expense of others. OHHH, don't forget how everyone has to pay weekly just to succumb like slaves to the guild owner, who is secretly going to just take millions of gold at some point in time. Think about it. EVERY TRADING GUILD leader is eventually going to take/steal/profit from all the hardworking citizens of Tamriel.

I am sure situations like this happen all the time. Shoot, it makes me want to start a trading guild for a month or so just so I can pocket a few million gold.

Is there any consequences for such things like this. Yeah people voluntarily put money in the lotto, but the deception is off the charts. Same with the 'new' trade window scamming. Is ZOS doing anything to help manage the awful monopolizing democracy of a game this is?

Sorry for the rant, but people need to be careful.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Naming & Shaming comments]

I had a guild and did the opposite. It was built up nice, but the options to manage it are very macro tized that I left and gave everyone in the guild the items. The guild system isn't complex enough to manage if you are a good person. Good people who want to run a good guild have to deal with a lot of issues. Until the system is improved I'm holding off on creating a guild. There is no way to avoid the perception you just posted even if you have the best of intentions

jnjdun_ESO · August 2015

This makes me sad. I'm in two really successful trade guilds and I think the leaders do an awesome job with the raffles and making sure we have traders in good locations. They do this consistently every week.

This is on NA PC, by the way.

The consoles are still babies. Give it time and it'll work itself out and legit guilds will become established and well known. Look around in the good locations, note what guilds are there every week and try to join one of them.

Good luck, console lords and ladies

Fissh · August 2015

CFodder1977 wrote: »

You got lucky. Most "trading" guilds on console right now are coupling the monthly raffle scam alongside mandatory weekly membership fees. Once people invest in the guild raffle they slap them with a weekly membership fee. You need to maintain your "good standing" in the guild by paying your weekly membership fee. If you don't pay the membership fee you cannot collect any potential raffle winnings. My advice to everyone is that the second you see a guild host a raffle or start charging membership fees, immediately leave.

If you join a guild with a mandatory fee, then that is your problem. I have five guilds, non of which have a fee. Yes, donations are welcomed, but not forced. 4 out of 5 of these guilds hold key kiosk locations, so that is not an issue.
People want every bad experience to be moderated by "the man", such as the OP. Reality, you put yourself where you are. You can leave where you don't want to be.
Personally, I donate. Especially to my more personable guilds. Simple fact, keeping a key location is not cheap and taxes do not cover it for some guilds.
Long story short: donate/pay wisely. Noble to donate to needed cause.....silly to give African Prince 5k so he can send you 100k......

Lordklinger · August 2015

It's not right or fair, but gambling is inherently risky. I never participate in raffles because the odds aren't in my favor. Having said that, I see no problem implementing a weekly membership for trade guilds. I would rather pay 2,000 gold and know I have secured a good trader, then not have a fee and risk not having one. I typically make between 50,000 - 100,000 gold a week through trading, so 2k is a small price to pay. If the leader decided to split with our weekly donations at least I am still making money on the deal.

Fissh · August 2015

monsterblitz wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Seems sort of over the top to blame guild trader system for this...

Why? It's exactly the reason it happened. Big trade guilds pay millions of gold for the prime locations and a guild leader can exploit this reason to profit. There is no accountability for how "Raffle money", donations or Trader profit is spent. Some guilds are more open in how they spend it, but it comes down to trust and most don't really care as long as the guild keeps a good spot.

You sir, are accountable. Live and learn.
"Fool me once, she on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME"
Try working on associating you self with a better crowd within game....

Liffy316 · August 2015

Fissh wrote: »

CFodder1977 wrote: »

You got lucky. Most "trading" guilds on console right now are coupling the monthly raffle scam alongside mandatory weekly membership fees. Once people invest in the guild raffle they slap them with a weekly membership fee. You need to maintain your "good standing" in the guild by paying your weekly membership fee. If you don't pay the membership fee you cannot collect any potential raffle winnings. My advice to everyone is that the second you see a guild host a raffle or start charging membership fees, immediately leave.

If you join a guild with a mandatory fee, then that is your problem. I have five guilds, non of which have a fee. Yes, donations are welcomed, but not forced. 4 out of 5 of these guilds hold key kiosk locations, so that is not an issue.
People want every bad experience to be moderated by "the man", such as the OP. Reality, you put yourself where you are. You can leave where you don't want to be.
Personally, I donate. Especially to my more personable guilds. Simple fact, keeping a key location is not cheap and taxes do not cover it for some guilds.
Long story short: donate/pay wisely. Noble to donate to needed cause.....silly to give African Prince 5k so he can send you 100k......

It's all risky. I don't mind donating for a kiosk either. But when someone is trying to host raffles and lotto's with high pay-outs, its so tempting for some people. I only lost a little bit of money and im not mad at that. I feel bad for the lowbies and newer players, they could of lost a lot of money in the process of trying to better their characters wealth... which we all know is super important at lower levels. This is console btw.

Keep in mind, we aren't talking about him just jacking one player. He jacked 300+ people for a 3 week lotto/raffle and a guild bank with 3 million in it. AND a kiosk in mournhold. He sure did sell the dream though huh?

Liffy316 · August 2015

Also, the guy's real life brother owns a good trading guild. I asked him about it and he just downplayed everything.

Honestly, I think they constantly make "off-guilds" or "master-crafter guilds" as a sister guild. Then bring in all the high rollers in that guild. Then host high-end lotto's/raffels once they earn their trust. Then BOOM, delete the guild. Rinse and repeat every month.

Sithisvoid · August 2015

It's hit or miss. I pay anywhere from 5 to 15 k a week into trade guilds with no problems so far. Maybe they steal my cash one day but i'm getting paid until then.

Lenikus · August 2015

Aah.. Capitalism...
Marvelous, wondrous Capitalism....

still, you can report the scammer guy, he'll probably be sat on the corner of discipline for a few minutes or something like that .. you still have the guy's @ name right ?

Greg · August 2015

my trading guild has no membership fees or donation, and the raffle prizes come out of his pocket :?

mtwiggz · August 2015

After playing Eve Online for many years I find gameplay like this smart, not scamming. As in Eve anything goes. You can offer to sell someone something and simply not comply after you get the money, no harm no foul. Or sell them a ship, as soon as they undock - blow it up. Not only does it make for great and cunning gameplay, it also teaches people great life lessons. Lessons that may be better off learned with virtual fake money or items as opposed to real life money and items.

On an ESO note, where that is not acceptable, scamming others seems to be against the TOS. If there is a way to prove it then you have a case with the GMs or CS.

I absolutely love the trade guild I'm in. They're helpful, give great deals, have a great trader spot, raffle and trivia night, etc. All that is asked is that each member sells at least 5,000 gold worth of items a week, or contributes 5,000 gold to the raffle or guild bank. All of said requests are reasonable in order to maintain the guild trader. Heck the leader even helps out with dungeons, trials, crafting, etc. Seems a lot of you folks are just joining poor guilds ran by terrible people.

Uncle_Voodoo · August 2015

Lordklinger wrote: »

It's not right or fair, but gambling is inherently risky. I never participate in raffles because the odds aren't in my favor. Having said that, I see no problem implementing a weekly membership for trade guilds. I would rather pay 2,000 gold and know I have secured a good trader, then not have a fee and risk not having one. I typically make between 50,000 - 100,000 gold a week through trading, so 2k is a small price to pay. If the leader decided to split with our weekly donations at least I am still making money on the deal.

You need to remember, the guild is also profiting between 3,500 - 7,000 gold off your sales as well. The "house cut" is 7% of all your sales!

reften · August 2015

Soon as you deposit gold in a guild bank or trade gold with someone...and receive nothing in return, you're taking a gamble.

The game is fine, people just made poor choices.