At what point should we discuss CP imbalance in Cyrodiil?
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BossTuggles✭✭✭BossTuggles wrote: »l? Like everything in life Time Spent = Success.
Time spent in an mmo should be primarily for honing instincts, fine tuning timing, innately understanding mechanics, etc.
Yes, for most mmo as we think of them today, a substantial chunk of that time will also be for grinding for better or more skill points, gear, and the like. But there has to be a limit on which time spent playing the game returns built in advantages.
The concept is not unlike practicing at a sport such as soccer.You can play and play and play and get better and better.
However, in soccer, there are not unlocks at 1000 hours which allow the use of hands or unlocks at 2000 hours which allow the use of rocket powered hover boards to move about. You are not rewarded the ability to tackle other players without penalty just because you have grinded out heading a ball 10,000 times.
To use your soccer analogy. After someone trains and practices they often gain alot more stamina than those who do not. They also tend to have better decision making seeing as they have more experience. These people also tend to have much more accurate shots/passes because they are putting in more time aka reps of all the situations. Why does there have to be a limit. Creating this limit is catering to those people who arent in their game as much as those who are. Stop catering to this casual mentality. Again im not even some huge CP guy but to find arguments to take away an advantage that these people have spent their TIME and EFFORT in is just selfish. Either get better and beat them or grind some CP. As i stated before i maybe PvP 2-3 times a week. A session lasts 2 hours ish. I EASILY make my weeks worth of CP in those sessions. People need to stop trying to cripple others in order to make themselves more relevant.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP THEIR CRYING AND MOANING AND JUST STEP THEIR GAME UP. I NEED THAT BICEPS GUY IN HERE TO SHAME YOU ALL.Like a Boss!0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭Personally I don't see this as an issue. I have yet to fight anyone that leaves me wondering "What happened?" . However I am in the 300 cp range.
With that said, aside from the campaign changes they spoke about, Zos also said they were looking at implementing a CP cap per "season" and a much more robust catch-up system, soon (tm).
Personally I think the right answer here is to leave it alone. I don't mind fighting folks with much more cp then myself, it gives me motivation to get more.
The 300 CP range is much further along than a lot of people who are more casual players. I physically can't even gain 3 CP in a day of playing because I simply don't have the time. If I gain 1, I feel good. This isn't a woe is me, but when it comes to PvP combat and battle leveling that is already part of this system, CP should be accounted for as well. If battle leveling didn't exist, and lower level characters were already at a disadvantage, I say the CP advantage as is would work. But that's not the case. Let my VR 14 gear and skills shine too then.
Agree, many people who post on the PvP forums are already past or pretty close to the (magical?) 300 CP mark, so they don't really take the CP issue as seriously as those who feel it most. I play the game for PvP and that is how I've earned and will continue to earn the majority of my CPs (through slow leveling through PvP). I notice with the play time I can get in, I can gain 1 CP every 2-3 nights or so. Assuming this rate stays about the same, in about 6 months I may be able to hit ~160-190 CPs. Not complaining really; just wish folks understood there is a big difference for casual players.
[edit] maths is hard ;-\
If you're playing the game to PvP ( as most of us on these forums do) then you aren't playing if you're only getting one CP every 2-3 days...additionally you're losing enlightened because you're not ever unenlightened.
Well I got a CP last night so I'll try to pay attention if I gain one tonight too (I generally do not gain one every night). It is without doubt I don't play as much as many, and correct, I am in no danger of losing enlightenment. I don't play during prime time-- sometimes I wonder if that'd make a difference.When enlightened a kill quest turnin is 50k. Tagging a player who dies is 9k. A defensive tick is 8k. If you're not making 400k AP a night in this state then you're not someone this game should be designed aeound, sorry.
I never said the game should be designed around me. I pursue whatever seems fun to me on the map-- if it doesn't seem fun/worthwhile and it's an obvious farm by an opposing faction I won't waste time on it. So depending on that I'll turn in maybe a couple kill quests per night. From what I've experienced lately a good defense tick is ~1k+ (3k reaches the "Oooh" point).The only reason someone shouldn't get 1 CP a night is if they're not playing. Which brings me to my second point.
Getting that second point beyond the first is 4 times harder along with every point after it. Only a handful of people are grinding insane amounts of CP and many of the ones I know who have have burned out and quit the game, or have stopped grinding for the most part....which leads me to my final point.
Sorry I must've missed the point here.The same people who are complaining about this massive CP disparity are the same people who accuse others of exploiting, macroing or lagging out every time they die. Some people just can't accept the fact that they lost because of a lack of skill. We all fight people with an absurd competitive advantage over us every day...they're called Emperors. If you're fine with those then you shouldn't have an issue with dying to someone who ground out more CP...just like that Emp ground out more AP. The only reason people have issues with this is their egos.
As I think you may support the idea that ~300 CPs is something of a "sweet spot," I had asked you on some other thread what you think about a 300 CP player vs. a 100 CP player. Would you still say 3 times the CPs shouldn't make a difference? JMO, if skill/experience levels are close (which is what needs to be assumed), the 300 CP person has a nice edge, more than enough to win.
Go through my posts and you'll see I rarely cry over dying and don't automatically blame exploits/macros/lag for being beaten. So in that regard I dunno if you're projecting irritation at other people who do.
I think exploiting is (ab)using anything that isn't working as intended (including stuff like nirn which I think a lot of people are using). I'll always think exploiting isn't skilled.
When it comes to emps, there is only one emp at a time on a campaign. So I never had problems with the emp concept. What I have problems with is emp-blob-n-zergs because they make the map very boring. That's a different subject though.
It's no secret I think the CP system is rubbish; it's why I unsubbed right after 1.6 came out. I don't need to be "the best" but I'm happy to plod along becoming better. All I want is to have some fun in vet PvP with folks at around the same power level (with the exception of an emp I suppose) so it really is more about the skills being used. Since Zeni stated their intent to implement non-CP campaigns, I'm fairly content to wait for those to be implemented. It just irks me when I see high-CP folks act like CPs aren't a nice advantage.Disabling the grass may improve performance.1 -
WRX✭✭✭✭✭MaximillianDiE wrote: »
Know which side you guys are going to play on?Decibel GM
GLUB GLUB0 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Biggest issue for me is that I choose to spend the super majority of my play time in Cyrodiil and regardless of the day or size of group I'm in I make a mere fraction of the CPs that someone else playing for that many hours would make outside of PVP. Then if and when they do come into Cyrodiil I'm at a disadvantage stat wise compared to them ... in pvp o.O? In what world does that make sense?
Brian said they were looking at ideas of increasing pvp XP but weren't ready to share them yet, so this means the disparity is just going to widen that much more.
There have indeed been times where I debated spending 1-2 hours grinding mobs before I went to go pvp so I didn't fall too far behind, and that alone should speak for the severity of the problem.
As for new players vs. CP grinders, the better solution might just be to increase the diminishing returns for each CP spent - right now it's still pretty linear.0 -
ZOS clearly isnt in a hurry to do anything to pvp as they thought we would be happy go lucky with IC
IC is awful and has made a huge amount of players quit.0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I really envy you, evening in pvp (2 h for me) on my vr 10 afair never got me full cp.
There is nothing wrong with PvPing in a group for those who don't have the capability or experience necessary for solo PVP. You actually gain far more Exp in group PvP than solo no matter who you are regardless.
I get 2-3 CP a night in about 3 hours of playing a night, 80% of that is PvP, 20% grinding for a single ambrosia for 50 minutes every other day. I'm not even close to the best at what I do.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The only reason someone shouldn't get 1 CP a night is if they're not playing. Which brings me to my second point.
Getting that second point beyond the first is 4 times harder along with every point after it. Only a handful of people are grinding insane amounts of CP and many of the ones I know who have have burned out and quit the game, or have stopped grinding for the most part....which leads me to my final point.
Sorry I must've missed the point here.
As I think you may support the idea that ~300 CPs is something of a "sweet spot," I had asked you on some other thread what you think about a 300 CP player vs. a 100 CP player. Would you still say 3 times the CPs shouldn't make a difference? JMO, if skill/experience levels are close (which is what needs to be assumed), the 300 CP person has a nice edge, more than enough to win.
Go through my posts and you'll see I rarely cry over dying and don't automatically blame exploits/macros/lag for being beaten. So in that regard I dunno if you're projecting irritation at other people who do.
I think exploiting is (ab)using anything that isn't working as intended (including stuff like nirn which I think a lot of people are using). I'll always think exploiting isn't skilled.
When it comes to emps, there is only one emp at a time on a campaign. So I never had problems with the emp concept. What I have problems with is emp-blob-n-zergs because they make the map very boring. That's a different subject though.
It's no secret I think the CP system is rubbish; it's why I unsubbed right after 1.6 came out. I don't need to be "the best" but I'm happy to plod along becoming better. All I want is to have some fun in vet PvP with folks at around the same power level (with the exception of an emp I suppose) so it really is more about the skills being used. Since Zeni stated their intent to implement non-CP campaigns, I'm fairly content to wait for those to be implemented. It just irks me when I see high-CP folks act like CPs aren't a nice advantage.
The point is, all CPs are not equal. The first one you get every day is at a 75% discount which means that even if someone is playing 4 times as much as you are every day they're not getting 4 times the CP, they're getting roughly twice the CP unless you're spending your time playing idling in Rawl'ka or something.
My belief is that ~300 CPs are where your average "Hardcore" PvP is sitting today. The guys with 700+ are more anomalies and so few and far between as to be irrelevant. You can still PvP all over without running into these guys all the time.
As far as someone having more than 3 times my CP, I was getting focused by Meth last in one fight and had no idea it was him (he wasn't emp). He was spamming lightning impulse on me over and over and it was more of an annoyance than anything else. I didn't even figure out it was him until his zerg caught up and zerg med down and I noticed the impulse damage on my death recap. So no, in short I don't think having 3 times someone's CP has as big of a difference as you think.
Yes if all else is equal someone with even 1 CP more has an "Edge" over someone without.
The whole idea is that if you're a casual player dont expect to be able to beat hardcore players. If you're a hardcore player like me and you focus on honing PvP and skills instead of grinding goblins and AP in a zerg you aren't really bothered by the guys who are and have a huge CP advantage over you because skill is always > stats.
You are always going to be the more common and more frequent type of player so most of the players you fight will be competitively matched to you. Just thing of CP grinders as another emp that you'll encounter from time to time and it shouldn't really bother you any more.
Edited by Ezareth on August 13, 2015 5:01AMPermanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Dru1076✭✭✭✭BossTuggles wrote: »BossTuggles wrote: »This mindset of everything has to be fair and equal no matter what is killing games in general. Keep it out of my pvp please. These people grind/craft/level so that they have an advantage over people who don't. If there is no advantage to obtain why even play an mmo at all? Like everything in life Time Spent = Success.
This makes sense as an argument until you realise that not everyone has the time to spend grinding. Some of us work for a living and the last time I checked the figures the average age of an MMO gamer was 36. How many people that age can still live like teenagers and play games all day?
Your argument assumes everybody has the same OPPORTUNITY to play but CHOOSE not to, which is fundamentally flawed. What you really saying, from my point of view, is that people who work for a living should be punished for not having time to play games. Which is pretty stupid if you really think about it.
I have 45-50 hour work weeks. My CP is currently 218 i said it previous in this thread. I am probably below average and I maybe play 2-3 times a week and pvp with my friends and I make 3 CP a session easy. With all this being said your making it sound like im some teenager grinding away my summer vacation. Ignorance. Getting 1 CP for like a 2 hour pvp session is VERY easy and EXTREMELY doable. Im not even a big super boss in pvp. I, even being at the disadvantage, do not agree in any way that these other people who A) play more than me or B ) take this game more serious than me should be punished for these "under dogs" who can't put in the time or the effort. Again like anything in life Time Spent = Success if you dont put in the same time as other folks you should not be on equal foorting. they shouldnt be brought down to your level. You need to step your game up. This is the attitude I am speaking of. Everyone wants that raid gear / PvP skills / PvP rank whatever in any of these games but people do not want to put the effort into it.
Edit who knew that B ) makes an emoticon.
The only thing that really matters is that the solution to the problem not sees a problem is already in the pipeline. Everyone can relax...Edited by Dru1076 on August 13, 2015 11:01AMAsk not what your sweetroll can do for you....0 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭To paraphrase someone else's comments, the best way I've heard it said is this:
Skill in Pvp should not be determined by the number of zombies you can grind.Tome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series8 -
Xiphyla✭✭✭MaximillianDiE wrote: »
Know which side you guys are going to play on?
Havent really decide yet , had to wait for moon and the rest of the NA+Oceanic to regather when beta is out.
Edited by Xiphyla on August 13, 2015 6:57AMAD : DiE (Inactive)
DC : K-hole (Inactive)
EP : ZDM (Inactive)
Await4camelotunchained.0 -
WRX✭✭✭✭✭MaximillianDiE wrote: »
Know which side you guys are going to play on?
Havent really decide yet , had to wait for moon and the rest of the NA+Oceanic to regather when beta is out.
Cool, a lot of us will be on alpha this Friday. Fairly sure we will play vikings as a heads up in case we'd want to side together.Decibel GM
GLUB GLUB0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A system designed to make you stronger in PvP by not playing PvP. What could go wrong?
People grinding CP all day often call themselves 'competetive', without realizing that there is no real competition without a level playing field.Edited by Lava_Croft on August 13, 2015 8:21AM4 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Kind of like the idea to make you stronger in PVE by "playing" PvP (more like destroying it - talking buff campaigns here)?Lava_Croft wrote: »A system designed to make you stronger in PvP by not playing PvP.
What could go wrong?Edited by Leandor on August 13, 2015 8:23AM0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Except PvE is not Player versus Player but Player versus AI controlled enemy that already cheats to make up for it's lack of actual intelligence.
Kind of like the idea to make you stronger in PVE by playing PvP?Lava_Croft wrote: »A system designed to make you stronger in PvP by not playing PvP.
What could go wrong?
It's a completely different game when its people fighting people instead of people fighting AI.
Edited by Lava_Croft on August 13, 2015 8:26AM0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Yeah. I think it's too bad that people who don't want to play PvP feel forced to 'grind AP' in order to get access to skills like Caltrops, Vigor or Magicka Detonation. However, it's a bit of a different problem.
Kind of like the idea to make you stronger in PVE by "playing" PvP (more like destroying it - talking buff campaigns here)?Lava_Croft wrote: »A system designed to make you stronger in PvP by not playing PvP.
What could go wrong?0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭@Ezareth
Sorry my earlier numbers were wrong as I was mixing VP up with AP and CLS isn't showing correct VP numbers. Anyway, here's some (not all) of the typical VP ticks I saw tonight for a "good night" of action til it became a boring Bridge-Sej affair:
Resource defense (small) - 1,862
Resource defense (medium) - 4,648
Keep defense (standard/small) - 1,908 (got this number a few times)
Keep and bridge defense and kills - 36,624 (highest combined tick I noted)
Bridge defense and kills - 34,568
Kill quest - 44,908 (each)
Total VP for the night - 194,956
Maybe you still view that as "not playing the game" but.. I play what's fun to me; if it's not fun I'll stop and do something else.
Anyway, mainly wanted to list a more accurate typical tick rundown and total.Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Ezareth
Sorry my earlier numbers were wrong as I was mixing VP up with AP and CLS isn't showing correct VP numbers. Anyway, here's some (not all) of the typical VP ticks I saw tonight for a "good night" of action til it became a boring Bridge-Sej affair:
Resource defense (small) - 1,862
Resource defense (medium) - 4,648
Keep defense (standard/small) - 1,908 (got this number a few times)
Keep and bridge defense and kills - 36,624 (highest combined tick I noted)
Bridge defense and kills - 34,568
Kill quest - 44,908 (each)
Total VP for the night - 194,956
Maybe you still view that as "not playing the game" but.. I play what's fun to me; if it's not fun I'll stop and do something else.
Anyway, mainly wanted to list a more accurate typical tick rundown and total.
@k2blader
Thanks for taking the time to break it down. I forgot in my numbers I'm getting the 10% bonus for being a subscriber plus since I run in a 2 man group I get another 10% bonus. These bonuses affect bass numbers which are multiplied by 4 to be enlightened.
It is possible since I'm playing DC I'm getting a low pop bonus but this is on Azuras so I doubt it since pop is more or less equal.
That said if you're only turning in a single kill quest every night hours not playing very long or seeing much real action. On live ( this is fixed on PTS unfortunately which is another issue altogether) you get full exp credit for tagging a player who dies. This is 2k per player (for me) when unenlightened so 8k when enlightened. 20 of those would be 160k and the quest another 50. Unless my quest is a kill enemy player quest I usually get my first CP around the time I turn in that quest because I've killed or tagged 60-80 players by then.
I'm not trying to be dismissive of you but you have to admit if you're only making 200k a night *while enlightened* which is 50k base exp you're in the very bottom tier of players by activity level.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭@Ezareth
Sorry my earlier numbers were wrong as I was mixing VP up with AP and CLS isn't showing correct VP numbers. Anyway, here's some (not all) of the typical VP ticks I saw tonight for a "good night" of action til it became a boring Bridge-Sej affair:
Resource defense (small) - 1,862
Resource defense (medium) - 4,648
Keep defense (standard/small) - 1,908 (got this number a few times)
Keep and bridge defense and kills - 36,624 (highest combined tick I noted)
Bridge defense and kills - 34,568
Kill quest - 44,908 (each)
Total VP for the night - 194,956
Maybe you still view that as "not playing the game" but.. I play what's fun to me; if it's not fun I'll stop and do something else.
Anyway, mainly wanted to list a more accurate typical tick rundown and total.
@k2blader
Thanks for taking the time to break it down. I forgot in my numbers I'm getting the 10% bonus for being a subscriber plus since I run in a 2 man group I get another 10% bonus. These bonuses affect bass numbers which are multiplied by 4 to be enlightened.
It is possible since I'm playing DC I'm getting a low pop bonus but this is on Azuras so I doubt it since pop is more or less equal.
That said if you're only turning in a single kill quest every night hours not playing very long or seeing much real action. On live ( this is fixed on PTS unfortunately which is another issue altogether) you get full exp credit for tagging a player who dies. This is 2k per player (for me) when unenlightened so 8k when enlightened. 20 of those would be 160k and the quest another 50. Unless my quest is a kill enemy player quest I usually get my first CP around the time I turn in that quest because I've killed or tagged 60-80 players by then.
I'm not trying to be dismissive of you but you have to admit if you're only making 200k a night *while enlightened* which is 50k base exp you're in the very bottom tier of players by activity level.
Understood. I'm just trying to describe to you how it is possible to not have a whole lot of CPs and how it can take a while to catch up to a "standard" of 300 CPs. Even if I were to alter when I play, how long I play, and add in some (detestable) PvE grinding in order to guarantee 1 CP a day it'd still take me ~200 days to catch up.
Yeah I may be in a low CP accumulating tier, but I think I'm far from the only person in such a situation based on what I read all over the forums. That's why I support there being campaigns where CPs are either capped low or don't exist.Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
MrGhosty✭✭✭✭✭BossTuggles wrote: »BossTuggles wrote: »This mindset of everything has to be fair and equal no matter what is killing games in general. Keep it out of my pvp please. These people grind/craft/level so that they have an advantage over people who don't. If there is no advantage to obtain why even play an mmo at all? Like everything in life Time Spent = Success.
This makes sense as an argument until you realise that not everyone has the time to spend grinding. Some of us work for a living and the last time I checked the figures the average age of an MMO gamer was 36. How many people that age can still live like teenagers and play games all day?
Your argument assumes everybody has the same OPPORTUNITY to play but CHOOSE not to, which is fundamentally flawed. What you really saying, from my point of view, is that people who work for a living should be punished for not having time to play games. Which is pretty stupid if you really think about it.
I have 45-50 hour work weeks. My CP is currently 218 i said it previous in this thread. I am probably below average and I maybe play 2-3 times a week and pvp with my friends and I make 3 CP a session easy. With all this being said your making it sound like im some teenager grinding away my summer vacation. Ignorance. Getting 1 CP for like a 2 hour pvp session is VERY easy and EXTREMELY doable. Im not even a big super boss in pvp. I, even being at the disadvantage, do not agree in any way that these other people who A) play more than me or B ) take this game more serious than me should be punished for these "under dogs" who can't put in the time or the effort. Again like anything in life Time Spent = Success if you dont put in the same time as other folks you should not be on equal foorting. they shouldnt be brought down to your level. You need to step your game up. This is the attitude I am speaking of. Everyone wants that raid gear / PvP skills / PvP rank whatever in any of these games but people do not want to put the effort into it.
Edit who knew that B ) makes an emoticon.
I think the difference all lies in the words used to describe what action people are asking for. For instance, I often think that the CP system needs to be balanced, not fair. Fair implies that we all have an identical pool and we are essentially cookie cutters, for the most part I would put shooters into that pool. That situation allows for the most skill to dominate purely on skill. That sort of system would devalue an MMO quite quickly. What it seems like the OP and several comments are asking for however isn't "fair" CP system but a balanced one. One that takes into account the wide spectrum of players and finds a way to make the gameplay fun. Losing a fight can be fun as it allows you to learn and provides an aspirational boost, but loosing and being demoralized are two very different beasts.
I'm at the lower end of the cp spectrum and have no delusions that I should be able to easily defeat or even defeat at all a better skilled, geared, and higher CP'd player. I do have the expectation that there will be a way for me to meaningfully contribute and make gains so long as I'm investing my time and effort into the game beyond functioning as an AP pinata. Players are content in MMOs, so ensuring that all players regardless of skill or time investment can find ways to enjoy themselves benefits everyone and we all should be asking for it.
That all said, if we can get the catchup mechanic implemented sooner rather than later I think we can see great strides in sorting this problem out and then continue to make minor tweaks as we get more data."It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom."1 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭Personally I don't see this as an issue. I have yet to fight anyone that leaves me wondering "What happened?" . However I am in the 300 cp range.
With that said, aside from the campaign changes they spoke about, Zos also said they were looking at implementing a CP cap per "season" and a much more robust catch-up system, soon (tm).
Personally I think the right answer here is to leave it alone. I don't mind fighting folks with much more cp then myself, it gives me motivation to get more.
The 300 CP range is much further along than a lot of people who are more casual players. I physically can't even gain 3 CP in a day of playing because I simply don't have the time. If I gain 1, I feel good. This isn't a woe is me, but when it comes to PvP combat and battle leveling that is already part of this system, CP should be accounted for as well. If battle leveling didn't exist, and lower level characters were already at a disadvantage, I say the CP advantage as is would work. But that's not the case. Let my VR 14 gear and skills shine too then.
Agree, many people who post on the PvP forums are already past or pretty close to the (magical?) 300 CP mark, so they don't really take the CP issue as seriously as those who feel it most. I play the game for PvP and that is how I've earned and will continue to earn the majority of my CPs (through slow leveling through PvP). I notice with the play time I can get in, I can gain 1 CP every 2-3 nights or so. Assuming this rate stays about the same, in about 6 months I may be able to hit ~160-190 CPs. Not complaining really; just wish folks understood there is a big difference for casual players.
[edit] maths is hard ;-\
If you're playing the game to PvP ( as most of us on these forums do) then you aren't playing if you're only getting one CP every 2-3 days...additionally you're losing enlightened because you're not ever unenlightened.
When enlightened a kill quest turnin is 50k. Tagging a player who dies is 9k. A defensive tick is 8k. If you're not making 400k AP a night in this state then you're not someone this game should be designed aeound, sorry.
The only reason someone shouldn't get 1 CP a night is if they're not playing. Which brings me to my second point.
Getting that second point beyond the first is 4 times harder along with every point after it. Only a handful of people are grinding insane amounts of CP and many of the ones I know who have have burned out and quit the game, or have stopped grinding for the most part....which leads me to my final point.
The same people who are complaining about this massive CP disparity are the same people who accuse others of exploiting, macroing or lagging out every time they die. Some people just can't accept the fact that they lost because of a lack of skill. We all fight people with an absurd competitive advantage over us every day...they're called Emperors. If you're fine with those then you shouldn't have an issue with dying to someone who ground out more CP...just like that Emp ground out more AP. The only reason people have issues with this is their egos.
^ This
It literally takes 30 minutes of pvp with Enlightenment to gain a CP if you group. Or an hour (at worst) if you solo. If you are not seeing results like this you should either rethink your build or playstyle because something is wrong.
And if you don't have 30 minutes to an hour of investment time a day, or 1-2 hours every couple of day etc.. This hobby may not be for you.Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.2 -
Garion✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have 407 CP, and yet sometimes I still die to completely nubs who definitely do not have more CP than me. Why? Because I make mistakes. I have fought people who I know have 800+ CP and they still die. Why? Because they make mistakes or they are just scrubs who spend all of their time PvE grinding rather than honing their PvP skills.
In duels and pre-planned 1v1s CP undoubtedly a significant factor, but in the normal open world of Cyrodiil I think the influence of CP is grossly over exaggerated by people looking for an excuse for them being... Well... Bad.
In any case, I work full time in a pretty demanding job and spend most of my game time doing what I enjoy (PvP). I have a decent amount of CP - if I can do it then anyone can.Edited by Garion on August 15, 2015 8:22AMLastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
Lastoblyat - VR16 Templar - PvP Rank 14 (AD)
Ninja Pete - VR16 NB - PvP Rank 10 (AD)
Labo the Banana Slayer - VR14 Sorc - PvP Rank 12 (EP)
Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena0 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have 407 CP, and yet sometimes I still die to completely nubs who definitely do not have more CP than me. Why? Because I make mistakes. I have fought people who I know have 800+ CP and they still die. Why? Because they make mistakes or they are just scrubs who spend all of their time PvE grinding rather than honing their PvP skills.
In duels and pre-planned 1v1s CP undoubtedly a significant factor, but in the normal open world of Cyrodiil I think the influence of CP is grossly over exaggerated by people looking for an excuse for them being... Well... Bad.
In any case, I work full time in a pretty demanding job and spend most of my game time doing what I enjoy (PvP). I have a decent amount of CP - if I can do it then anyone can.
Nobody is saying that having 1000 cp is god mode. But please try runing without slotting any cps, or go to pts and make 3600 cp character and tell me how it feels.0 -
Garion✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have 407 CP, and yet sometimes I still die to completely nubs who definitely do not have more CP than me. Why? Because I make mistakes. I have fought people who I know have 800+ CP and they still die. Why? Because they make mistakes or they are just scrubs who spend all of their time PvE grinding rather than honing their PvP skills.
In duels and pre-planned 1v1s CP undoubtedly a significant factor, but in the normal open world of Cyrodiil I think the influence of CP is grossly over exaggerated by people looking for an excuse for them being... Well... Bad.
In any case, I work full time in a pretty demanding job and spend most of my game time doing what I enjoy (PvP). I have a decent amount of CP - if I can do it then anyone can.
Nobody is saying that having 1000 cp is god mode. But please try runing without slotting any cps, or go to pts and make 3600 cp character and tell me how it feels.
Of course there is going to be a huge difference between 0 CP and 3600 CP. But that disparity does not exist on the live servers so it's an irrelevant point.Lastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
Lastoblyat - VR16 Templar - PvP Rank 14 (AD)
Ninja Pete - VR16 NB - PvP Rank 10 (AD)
Labo the Banana Slayer - VR14 Sorc - PvP Rank 12 (EP)
Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena0 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have 407 CP, and yet sometimes I still die to completely nubs who definitely do not have more CP than me. Why? Because I make mistakes. I have fought people who I know have 800+ CP and they still die. Why? Because they make mistakes or they are just scrubs who spend all of their time PvE grinding rather than honing their PvP skills.
In duels and pre-planned 1v1s CP undoubtedly a significant factor, but in the normal open world of Cyrodiil I think the influence of CP is grossly over exaggerated by people looking for an excuse for them being... Well... Bad.
In any case, I work full time in a pretty demanding job and spend most of my game time doing what I enjoy (PvP). I have a decent amount of CP - if I can do it then anyone can.
Nobody is saying that having 1000 cp is god mode. But please try runing without slotting any cps, or go to pts and make 3600 cp character and tell me how it feels.
Of course there is going to be a huge difference between 0 CP and 3600 CP. But that disparity does not exist on the live servers so it's an irrelevant point.
I think you didnt answer my question on purpose. Try not slotting any of your cps and do some pvp please. I know i did that with my puny 91 cps and i already felt big difference. But then again its not really about you or me. Game to survie must have new players comming and cp system certainly doesnt make it easy.0 -
Garion✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have 407 CP, and yet sometimes I still die to completely nubs who definitely do not have more CP than me. Why? Because I make mistakes. I have fought people who I know have 800+ CP and they still die. Why? Because they make mistakes or they are just scrubs who spend all of their time PvE grinding rather than honing their PvP skills.
In duels and pre-planned 1v1s CP undoubtedly a significant factor, but in the normal open world of Cyrodiil I think the influence of CP is grossly over exaggerated by people looking for an excuse for them being... Well... Bad.
In any case, I work full time in a pretty demanding job and spend most of my game time doing what I enjoy (PvP). I have a decent amount of CP - if I can do it then anyone can.
Nobody is saying that having 1000 cp is god mode. But please try runing without slotting any cps, or go to pts and make 3600 cp character and tell me how it feels.
Of course there is going to be a huge difference between 0 CP and 3600 CP. But that disparity does not exist on the live servers so it's an irrelevant point.
I think you didnt answer my question on purpose. Try not slotting any of your cps and do some pvp please. I know i did that with my puny 91 cps and i already felt big difference. But then again its not really about you or me. Game to survie must have new players comming and cp system certainly doesnt make it easy.
It's entirely irrelevant because I wouldn't ever play without any CPs. Anyone who is V14 has at least around 80 and yes no doubt I will feel the difference but I will still kill bad players because they're bad. It does make a difference, yes, but I think the difference is exaggerated particularly when we're talking about someone having 250 - 300 vs someone that has 400.Lastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
Lastoblyat - VR16 Templar - PvP Rank 14 (AD)
Ninja Pete - VR16 NB - PvP Rank 10 (AD)
Labo the Banana Slayer - VR14 Sorc - PvP Rank 12 (EP)
Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena0
