Couldn't be arsed making new gear and then... I mean, exploiting Mundas stones is morally corrupt.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Couldn't be arsed making new gear and then... I mean, exploiting Mundas stones is morally corrupt.

Until you become the minority for not using it

I'm not finding life difficult without it, which is nice as it maybe the opposite for some people very soon.

The thing is though, this is cheating.

Call it whatever you want to justify the use, but it is what it is.

Whoever uses these bugs:

1. Camo Hunter
2. Overload bar
3. 2 Mundus
4. Going Through Keep Doors
5. Intentional Lag Switching

Plus about 5 more that I haven't seen brought up on the forums so I'm not about to, you are cheaters.

Saying that "zenimax doesn't fix it" is hilarious to me because it's actually accepting the fact that this is cheating, but because other people do it and it hasn't been removed it's ok.

I guess all you guys are Tom Brady fans, with your underinflated footballs and multiple championships.

Meh, whatever. I don't use them and won't use them. I feel sorry for the "ultra competitive" who must cheat to win at a video game.

The only people that exploit for 2+ mundus stones are the people who are so bad they have to have more then one mundus to try and keep up with better players.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Let me ask some questions that I personally have never seen asked.

How are these exploits (any of them, all of them in ESO) discovered in the first place? How are players even imagining where to sniff around thinking there may be something there? Is it possible every exploit in this game (or any game) are all found literally by chance?

I've played a lot of MMOs since UO, and even back then, many players were content to spend hours trying to find ways to break the system. Whether it is a glitch, 3rd party program, exploit, cheat, whatever, I can guarantee many of these are discovered by purely intentional means.

That doesn't rule out the odd "accidental" find. But there is always going to be a substantial portion of the player base in any MMO that is quite content to cheat. It is up to the developer to stop them. They won't stop until someone forces them to.

@Publius_Scipio the first exploits in the games maybe, but now its just the mindset that this game is glitchy and there are going to be ways to exploit holes in the code.

Software engineers try to think of all the random combinations of things that could result in a glitch/overlap, but I mean come on thats impossible to figure them all out.

People do things like purposefully disconnect the game while crafting to see if they can craft things without using materials or duplicating things by grabbing items out of the bank and force closing at the same time.

if the client and the server both say they have the item in inventory then they both must be right.

things like glitching through doors comes from having a no-clip issue somewhere and realizing you could do that somewhere else.

Once a cheater finds a shortcut in a system, they tend to try and find other shortcuts in other systems.

I don't use this, nor do i use any exploits. I don't even know how to use them and don't want to know.

I will not group with anyone who uses these things either, and no one i group with uses any of these bugs either.

Well like I said, luck plays a factor in the first one or two exploits, but once a particular way of breaking things is found, it becomes easier to delve into the mind of the creator and break other things as well.

Once you realize that you can clip through say a rock in a dungeon by using a skill, some people would say:

"huh, that was weird"

other people say:

"holy crap if I can clip through a rock, can I clip through a door?"

You don't know where to begin because you don't want to, if you were so inclined you would search it out.

yodased wrote: »

The thing is though, this is cheating.

Call it whatever you want to justify the use, but it is what it is.

Whoever uses these bugs:

1. Camo Hunter
2. Overload bar
3. 2 Mundus
4. Going Through Keep Doors
5. Intentional Lag Switching

Plus about 5 more that I haven't seen brought up on the forums so I'm not about to, you are cheaters.

Saying that "zenimax doesn't fix it" is hilarious to me because it's actually accepting the fact that this is cheating, but because other people do it and it hasn't been removed it's ok.

I guess all you guys are Tom Brady fans, with your underinflated footballs and multiple championships.

Meh, whatever. I don't use them and won't use them. I feel sorry for the "ultra competitive" who must cheat to win at a video game.

Pretty much this.

JDar wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

@Publius_Scipio the first exploits in the games maybe, but now its just the mindset that this game is glitchy and there are going to be ways to exploit holes in the code.

Software engineers try to think of all the random combinations of things that could result in a glitch/overlap, but I mean come on thats impossible to figure them all out.

People do things like purposefully disconnect the game while crafting to see if they can craft things without using materials or duplicating things by grabbing items out of the bank and force closing at the same time.

if the client and the server both say they have the item in inventory then they both must be right.

things like glitching through doors comes from having a no-clip issue somewhere and realizing you could do that somewhere else.

Once a cheater finds a shortcut in a system, they tend to try and find other shortcuts in other systems.

I appreciate the response. All the holes ESO has had so far tells me that players seemed to know where to poke around in order to find something. For example, I myself wouldn't know where to go to possible find an exploit. I just login and I am in the vast world of ESO.

Or maybe it was simply probability. Just seems to me that these ESO exploits are found and become public knowledge rather quickly.

A lot of the exploiters are experienced with networking and software engineering too and probably know how the game works without having to see any of the code. They all teach you the same stuff in college. Same techniques, same paradigms. Combine that with a person who has made it through their entire life by doing crap like this and bingo you have a prolific exploiter.

99% of these exploiters are just copycats. They never discovered a thing except how to copy an exploit that someone else discovered and shared. They are the MMO equivalent to what a real hacker would call a "Script kiddie". That's why once these exploits become known so many people jump on the bandwagon and do it as well.

There is a big difference between using an ability that is grossly overpowered to slaughter people and knowing exploiting a flaw in the game code to gain advantage.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

1) It's definitely possible
2) Everyones definitely doing it
3) Morals aside, it's pretty much a must have in terms of staying competitive
4) ZOS should handle bugs like this (&nirn) more seriously and more hastily

No one needs this bug to stay competitive. I kill the scrubs who use it on a daily, and I'm not using one damn exploit. I'm sorry, but I have to deeply disagree with you on this one and point out that that is really just a dumb thing to say. I know plenty of players who AREN'T using it, and are still some of the best players you can come across. Don't generalize everyone, please. Good players will always come out on top. Who needs exploits when you have git gud? As @Nifty2g would say.

It was enough to say you deeply disagree without also adding that it's a dumb thing to say. Your post makes me feel like you might want to have a productive conversation aside from that statement. So going forward, lets attempt to not insult one another with petty jabs.

I see and agree with your point to an extent. However, I think that for arguments sake, you need to separate opinion from fact.

- Using multiple mundus stones is a crappy thing to do. Opinion. This can be argued on either side.
- Using multiple mundus stones gives you better stats. Fact. This cannot be argued with any sound logic.

If a large number of players (a mix of good and bad) are using this bug, your character is at a statistical disadvantage to not do it. That is a fact. If you compare two identical characters with only this difference, the character that does not use this bug is weaker. Sure, plenty of other aspects come into the making of a good player, aside from stats. But that is besides the point.

I stand by the statement that it is pretty much a must have in terms of staying competitive. That does not mean I use it myself, or that I believe it is right to use it. This is where I separate opinions and morality from fact. In terms of staying competitive/comparable/ect, this bug is becoming widely mainstream. If it continues to go unchecked, much like nirn armor, it will saturate the community and become the meta.

A good friend of mine made excellent points recently. He said that though many of us prefer to play a clean, non-exploited game, the game does not reward you for playing honorably. And when exploits such as this go unchecked and unfixed for months on end, it only reinforces an "ends justify the means" thought process.

It was wrong to generalize and say "everyone" is definitely doing it. And I have already corrected myself if you read up. When I said "everyone's definitely doing it" I meant it hyperbolically so apologies for the misconception. I realize not everyone is, and I am included in that percentage.

I respect that you choose to play without this bug, and agree that it is not strong enough to be the end-all, be-all in fights. Im sure you are right in saying plenty who do not use it are very good players. However it is not "dumb" to make an observation that remaining competitive is hinged upon remaining in the relative neighborhood stat wise as other players. There's a reason why gear is so crucial. There's a reason why CP is so crucial. All of these elements add up to a statistically sound build. Your mundus stone(s) is just one more piece of this mathematical comparison.

Truth be told we, shouldn't even have to debate this, because in the time it took for me to type this out, it should've already been fixed.

Winnamine wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

1) It's definitely possible
2) Everyones definitely doing it
3) Morals aside, it's pretty much a must have in terms of staying competitive
4) ZOS should handle bugs like this (&nirn) more seriously and more hastily

No one needs this bug to stay competitive. I kill the scrubs who use it on a daily, and I'm not using one damn exploit. I'm sorry, but I have to deeply disagree with you on this one and point out that that is really just a dumb thing to say. I know plenty of players who AREN'T using it, and are still some of the best players you can come across. Don't generalize everyone, please. Good players will always come out on top. Who needs exploits when you have git gud? As @Nifty2g would say.

It was enough to say you deeply disagree without also adding that it's a dumb thing to say. Your post makes me feel like you might want to have a productive conversation aside from that statement. So going forward, lets attempt to not insult one another with petty jabs.

I see and agree with your point to an extent. However, I think that for arguments sake, you need to separate opinion from fact.

- Using multiple mundus stones is a crappy thing to do. Opinion. This can be argued on either side.
- Using multiple mundus stones gives you better stats. Fact. This cannot be argued with any sound logic.

If a large number of players (a mix of good and bad) are using this bug, your character is at a statistical disadvantage to not do it. That is a fact. If you compare two identical characters with only this difference, the character that does not use this bug is weaker. Sure, plenty of other aspects come into the making of a good player, aside from stats. But that is besides the point.

I stand by the statement that it is pretty much a must have in terms of staying competitive. That does not mean I use it myself, or that I believe it is right to use it. This is where I separate opinions and morality from fact. In terms of staying competitive/comparable/ect, this bug is becoming widely mainstream. If it continues to go unchecked, much like nirn armor, it will saturate the community and become the meta.

A good friend of mine made excellent points recently. He said that though many of us prefer to play a clean, non-exploited game, the game does not reward you for playing honorably. And when exploits such as this go unchecked and unfixed for months on end, it only reinforces an "ends justify the means" thought process.

It was wrong to generalize and say "everyone" is definitely doing it. And I have already corrected myself if you read up. When I said "everyone's definitely doing it" I meant it hyperbolically so apologies for the misconception. I realize not everyone is, and I am included in that percentage.

I respect that you choose to play without this bug, and agree that it is not strong enough to be the end-all, be-all in fights. Im sure you are right in saying plenty who do not use it are very good players. However it is not "dumb" to make an observation that remaining competitive is hinged upon remaining in the relative neighborhood stat wise as other players. There's a reason why gear is so crucial. There's a reason why CP is so crucial. All of these elements add up to a statistically sound build. Your mundus stone(s) is just one more piece of this mathematical comparison.

Truth be told we, shouldn't even have to debate this, because in the time it took for me to type this out, it should've already been fixed.

I don't think nirn and the double mundus exploit are directly comparable. I would argue that nirn, like sharpened, and like many skills, has an unintentionally strong effect when used exactly as intended. Since these skills and traits remain in the game, most of the community has just accepted that that's how they work, that's just what nirn does, and it does it for everyone.
The double mundus exploit is a cheat plain and simple. It is not a broken mechanic, it is a mechanic that you break yourself, on purpose, to gain an advantage that others don't have access to. A lot of people here are trying to normalize it by saying everyone's doing it so you have to or whatever, but it's cheating, and not everyone is doing it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I know quite a few people who have no idea how to even do the Mundus exploit and many more who are even unaware of its existence.

BEZDNA wrote: »

Double mundoes stones?

Hahah, that's for noobs! Here you are - found a guy with 5 of them!

What addon is that?