Princess "OP" Asgari | Sorcerer vs Dragonknight Emperor

ToRelax · August 2015

OdinForge wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And that's the real problem, with Tri-pots and enough CPs you literally have zero opportunity to drain a sorc of stamina. His shields mean he *never* has to block and *never* has to dodge roll so they only stamina expenditure he has is break free. He can recast shields faster than you can damage him and if he is skilled, he's never going to let his shield stack fall to the point where he is vulnerable.

This is the critical issue that is driving everybody mad trying to fight magicka sorcs. For months and months we were told "don''t be stupid, you kill sorcs by attacking their stamina. L2P."

If a sorc is skilled in knowing when to use stamina, their stamina is not a vulnerability. Their only vulnerability is some combination of multiple players, extreme burst damage, and their own mistakes.

Nothing in 2.1, or in recent statements by devs indicates any fundamental change. (If anything, sorcs may have to "sacrifice" a skill slot for Boundless.) We will see if the upcoming series of incremental changes has any effect.

This is true, but it goes for any class... if people don't make major mistakes in a 1v1, it doesn't end since the beginning of 1.6, and 2.1 makes that even easier.

You're all right, i dueled a permablock DK with a permablock NB for 30+ minutes. We both got "close" to killing each other several times, but it was never going to happen with the amount of sustain, it could have gone on for hours. Certain builds for almost each class can result in 1v1's that literally will never end fairly.

But Sorc is on a different level of its own, that you simply cannot touch. It's not like a NB t'rolling around the floor, being annoying.

The people who truly get screwed over by those type of Sorcs, are the people not trying to abuse broken mechanics (game makes it hard not to abuse things though). Not abusing nirn, trying to be unique with their builds. Getting hit by 10K curses, and various other sustained damage while contemplating how to not melt by mines and dawnbreaker. They get told to L2P and stop being a scrub.

Yeah, like it is harder for a NB to fight when another NB marks them or for a DK when enemy DKs play ping pong, another Sorc just absorbs all damage with Harness Magicka and BoL. And even though you can die fast, with Hardened/Healing Ward the game is still not less forgiving against a stamina build than for any other class.

Ezareth · August 2015

Stikato wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And that's the real problem, with Tri-pots and enough CPs you literally have zero opportunity to drain a sorc of stamina. His shields mean he *never* has to block and *never* has to dodge roll so they only stamina expenditure he has is break free. He can recast shields faster than you can damage him and if he is skilled, he's never going to let his shield stack fall to the point where he is vulnerable.

This is the critical issue that is driving everybody mad trying to fight magicka sorcs. For months and months we were told "don''t be stupid, you kill sorcs by attacking their stamina. L2P."

If a sorc is skilled in knowing when to use stamina, their stamina is not a vulnerability. Their only vulnerability is some combination of multiple players, extreme burst damage, and their own mistakes.

Nothing in 2.1, or in recent statements by devs indicates and fundamental change. We will see if the series of incremental changes has any effect.

Well at the beginning of 1.6 this was the strategy.

Enter Werewolf for everyone and 300+ CPs for most top tier players and then shields that have grown to the point where blocking and dodge rolling is never needed and you have a sorc that can't run out of stamina.

This will change slightly come 2.1 with the nerf to werewolf/vamp/emp regen passives but by then we'll have even more CPs, better stam regen, V15 Food/Tripots, larger stam pool etc.

The other thing you have to think of is you're not always in a position to CC a player as soon as he is vulnerable again which in a sorc's case means he is getting back ahead of the stamina drain game. Mitra was AoE grinding so he didn't have petrify slotted obviously so his only CC was invasion which means he has to be prepared to eat another row of mines. There were several instances there where he just wasn't in a position to safely invasion as Asgari came out of his invulnerability.

It costs Asgari 4455 Stamina to break free.

He gets back 637 Stamina ever 2 without using a Tri-pot which means he's a Werewolf, has X-Emp passive and 6% in stamina regen in his CPs. With a Tripot he gets back 764 Stamina every 2 seconds, plus 5778 Stamina from the Tri-pot itself which over the 45 second cooldown brings him to a maximum stamina gain of 892.4 (if he needs it).

You gain immunity for 8 seconds after breaking free meaning that if Mitra CC'ed Asgari *perfectly* every 8 seconds for the duration of the fight he would run him out of Stamina in just under 2 minutes. Any second of not being CC'ed is bonus regen and extends that out so it's pretty unrealistic in any scenario facing a good sorc who doesn't need to dodge roll or block to run them out of stamina.

It's pretty much the same matchup as German versus that other DK Emp, neither one had much of a chance over a long enough fight unless the sorc forgets to refresh his shield and Asgari didn't make any major mistakes that I saw.

Ishammael · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And that's the real problem, with Tri-pots and enough CPs you literally have zero opportunity to drain a sorc of stamina. His shields mean he *never* has to block and *never* has to dodge roll so they only stamina expenditure he has is break free. He can recast shields faster than you can damage him and if he is skilled, he's never going to let his shield stack fall to the point where he is vulnerable.

This is the critical issue that is driving everybody mad trying to fight magicka sorcs. For months and months we were told "don''t be stupid, you kill sorcs by attacking their stamina. L2P."

If a sorc is skilled in knowing when to use stamina, their stamina is not a vulnerability. Their only vulnerability is some combination of multiple players, extreme burst damage, and their own mistakes.

Nothing in 2.1, or in recent statements by devs indicates and fundamental change. We will see if the series of incremental changes has any effect.

Well at the beginning of 1.6 this was the strategy.

Enter Werewolf for everyone and 300+ CPs for most top tier players and then shields that have grown to the point where blocking and dodge rolling is never needed and you have a sorc that can't run out of stamina.

This will change slightly come 2.1 with the nerf to werewolf/vamp/emp regen passives but by then we'll have even more CPs, better stam regen, V15 Food/Tripots, larger stam pool etc.

The other thing you have to think of is you're not always in a position to CC a player as soon as he is vulnerable again which in a sorc's case means he is getting back ahead of the stamina drain game. Mitra was AoE grinding so he didn't have petrify slotted obviously so his only CC was invasion which means he has to be prepared to eat another row of mines. There were several instances there where he just wasn't in a position to safely invasion as Asgari came out of his invulnerability.

It costs Asgari 4455 Stamina to break free.

He gets back 637 Stamina ever 2 without using a Tri-pot which means he's a Werewolf, has X-Emp passive and 6% in stamina regen in his CPs. With a Tripot he gets back 764 Stamina every 2 seconds, plus 5778 Stamina from the Tri-pot itself which over the 45 second cooldown brings him to a maximum stamina gain of 892.4 (if he needs it).

You gain immunity for 8 seconds after breaking free meaning that if Mitra CC'ed Asgari *perfectly* every 8 seconds for the duration of the fight he would run him out of Stamina in just under 2 minutes. Any second of not being CC'ed is bonus regen and extends that out so it's pretty unrealistic in any scenario facing a good sorc who doesn't need to dodge roll or block to run them out of stamina.

It's pretty much the same matchup as German versus that other DK Emp, neither one had much of a chance over a long enough fight unless the sorc forgets to refresh his shield and Asgari didn't make any major mistakes that I saw.

To summarize, Ez (for those who skimmed): 4455 / 4 = 1114 stam regen required to always be able to break free. While not trivial per se, it pretty easy to accomplish between CPs and tripots.

Ezareth · August 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And that's the real problem, with Tri-pots and enough CPs you literally have zero opportunity to drain a sorc of stamina. His shields mean he *never* has to block and *never* has to dodge roll so they only stamina expenditure he has is break free. He can recast shields faster than you can damage him and if he is skilled, he's never going to let his shield stack fall to the point where he is vulnerable.

This is the critical issue that is driving everybody mad trying to fight magicka sorcs. For months and months we were told "don''t be stupid, you kill sorcs by attacking their stamina. L2P."

If a sorc is skilled in knowing when to use stamina, their stamina is not a vulnerability. Their only vulnerability is some combination of multiple players, extreme burst damage, and their own mistakes.

Nothing in 2.1, or in recent statements by devs indicates and fundamental change. We will see if the series of incremental changes has any effect.

Well at the beginning of 1.6 this was the strategy.

Enter Werewolf for everyone and 300+ CPs for most top tier players and then shields that have grown to the point where blocking and dodge rolling is never needed and you have a sorc that can't run out of stamina.

This will change slightly come 2.1 with the nerf to werewolf/vamp/emp regen passives but by then we'll have even more CPs, better stam regen, V15 Food/Tripots, larger stam pool etc.

The other thing you have to think of is you're not always in a position to CC a player as soon as he is vulnerable again which in a sorc's case means he is getting back ahead of the stamina drain game. Mitra was AoE grinding so he didn't have petrify slotted obviously so his only CC was invasion which means he has to be prepared to eat another row of mines. There were several instances there where he just wasn't in a position to safely invasion as Asgari came out of his invulnerability.

It costs Asgari 4455 Stamina to break free.

He gets back 637 Stamina ever 2 without using a Tri-pot which means he's a Werewolf, has X-Emp passive and 6% in stamina regen in his CPs. With a Tripot he gets back 764 Stamina every 2 seconds, plus 5778 Stamina from the Tri-pot itself which over the 45 second cooldown brings him to a maximum stamina gain of 892.4 (if he needs it).

You gain immunity for 8 seconds after breaking free meaning that if Mitra CC'ed Asgari *perfectly* every 8 seconds for the duration of the fight he would run him out of Stamina in just under 2 minutes. Any second of not being CC'ed is bonus regen and extends that out so it's pretty unrealistic in any scenario facing a good sorc who doesn't need to dodge roll or block to run them out of stamina.

It's pretty much the same matchup as German versus that other DK Emp, neither one had much of a chance over a long enough fight unless the sorc forgets to refresh his shield and Asgari didn't make any major mistakes that I saw.

To summarize, Ez (for those who skimmed): 4455 / 4 = 1114 stam regen required to always be able to break free. While not trivial per se, it pretty easy to accomplish between CPs and tripots.

Keep in mind that is 1114 stamina regen under a worst case scenario that I've yet to see happen. If you're not over 1000 Stamina regen it's because you're running food and with food you can break free 3 times in a row if you have decent CPs.

My Sorc has ~1306 stamina regen but I'm running drink and not food like Asgari. I also prefer reactively blocking CCs and using dodge rolls etc which while being more skillful is a style of play that is currently punished in the existing meta and the next.

The most powerful sorc build right now is the max magicka/shields and just keep your shields active while standing in mine and crushing shock/light attack/mines/VC dawnbreaker your enemies to death that Asgari and many other sorcs like him are using and it's only going to become more powerful in 2.1

DisgracefulMind · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And that's the real problem, with Tri-pots and enough CPs you literally have zero opportunity to drain a sorc of stamina. His shields mean he *never* has to block and *never* has to dodge roll so they only stamina expenditure he has is break free. He can recast shields faster than you can damage him and if he is skilled, he's never going to let his shield stack fall to the point where he is vulnerable.

This is the critical issue that is driving everybody mad trying to fight magicka sorcs. For months and months we were told "don''t be stupid, you kill sorcs by attacking their stamina. L2P."

If a sorc is skilled in knowing when to use stamina, their stamina is not a vulnerability. Their only vulnerability is some combination of multiple players, extreme burst damage, and their own mistakes.

Nothing in 2.1, or in recent statements by devs indicates and fundamental change. We will see if the series of incremental changes has any effect.

Well at the beginning of 1.6 this was the strategy.

Enter Werewolf for everyone and 300+ CPs for most top tier players and then shields that have grown to the point where blocking and dodge rolling is never needed and you have a sorc that can't run out of stamina.

This will change slightly come 2.1 with the nerf to werewolf/vamp/emp regen passives but by then we'll have even more CPs, better stam regen, V15 Food/Tripots, larger stam pool etc.

The other thing you have to think of is you're not always in a position to CC a player as soon as he is vulnerable again which in a sorc's case means he is getting back ahead of the stamina drain game. Mitra was AoE grinding so he didn't have petrify slotted obviously so his only CC was invasion which means he has to be prepared to eat another row of mines. There were several instances there where he just wasn't in a position to safely invasion as Asgari came out of his invulnerability.

It costs Asgari 4455 Stamina to break free.

He gets back 637 Stamina ever 2 without using a Tri-pot which means he's a Werewolf, has X-Emp passive and 6% in stamina regen in his CPs. With a Tripot he gets back 764 Stamina every 2 seconds, plus 5778 Stamina from the Tri-pot itself which over the 45 second cooldown brings him to a maximum stamina gain of 892.4 (if he needs it).

You gain immunity for 8 seconds after breaking free meaning that if Mitra CC'ed Asgari *perfectly* every 8 seconds for the duration of the fight he would run him out of Stamina in just under 2 minutes. Any second of not being CC'ed is bonus regen and extends that out so it's pretty unrealistic in any scenario facing a good sorc who doesn't need to dodge roll or block to run them out of stamina.

It's pretty much the same matchup as German versus that other DK Emp, neither one had much of a chance over a long enough fight unless the sorc forgets to refresh his shield and Asgari didn't make any major mistakes that I saw.

To summarize, Ez (for those who skimmed): 4455 / 4 = 1114 stam regen required to always be able to break free. While not trivial per se, it pretty easy to accomplish between CPs and tripots.

Keep in mind that is 1114 stamina regen under a worst case scenario that I've yet to see happen. If you're not over 1000 Stamina regen it's because you're running food and with food you can break free 3 times in a row if you have decent CPs.

My Sorc has ~1306 stamina regen but I'm running drink and not food like Asgari. I also prefer reactively blocking CCs and using dodge rolls etc which while being more skillful is a style of play that is currently punished in the existing meta and the next.

The most powerful sorc build right now is the max magicka/shields and just keep your shields active while standing in mine and crushing shock/light attack/mines/VC dawnbreaker your enemies to death that Asgari and many other sorcs like him are using and it's only going to become more powerful in 2.1

See, this is where it sucks because I'm also a Sorc who likes to actively block when needed, dodge roll when needed, and I play caster, but I try to close distance as much as possible and put a lot of pressure on my opponents. I never did like the stand in mines and attack style of play, though I know its uses, I much prefer boundless storm in place of mines as it better suits my playstyle. I run out of stam efficiently enough at times (you can see it in my videos), and I'm far from the best Sorc, but I find playing like this a lot more fun than the typical kite and nuke Sorc builds. I could have 40k+ magicka easily with 400+ CPs, I could have massive shields, I could have apprentice over atronach, and on, and on; I choose not to play this way because it's just not fun. I agree completely with you that being more reactive is far more skilled play, and it's so saddening that it's being punished in this new meta. I don't much like it at all.

That being said, Asgari is a BEAST. I've played with him a lot, and we've torn through groups through being skilled and aware of the opponents we're fighting. I have no doubt that he could take on most opponents with both his Sorc and DK.

Ezareth · August 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

See, this is where it sucks because I'm also a Sorc who likes to actively block when needed, dodge roll when needed, and I play caster, but I try to close distance as much as possible and put a lot of pressure on my opponents. I never did like the stand in mines and attack style of play, though I know its uses, I much prefer boundless storm in place of mines as it better suits my playstyle. I run out of stam efficiently enough at times (you can see it in my videos), and I'm far from the best Sorc, but I find playing like this a lot more fun than the typical kite and nuke Sorc builds. I could have 40k+ magicka easily with 400+ CPs, I could have massive shields, I could have apprentice over atronach, and on, and on; I choose not to play this way because it's just not fun. I agree completely with you that being more reactive is far more skilled play, and it's so saddening that it's being punished in this new meta. I don't much like it at all.

That being said, Asgari is a BEAST. I've played with him a lot, and we've torn through groups through being skilled and aware of the opponents we're fighting. I have no doubt that he could take on most opponents with both his Sorc and DK.

Yeah there is no denying Asgari is an amazing player, I wouldn't say otherwise. And props to him for being one of the few great sorcs I've seen out there who (from what I can tell) isn't exploiting mundus/overload.

What makes me sad is I know Mitra and he's a damn good player as well and one of the best DKs I've run with. If anyone thinks otherwise I'm sure he'd be happy to correct you in game. When I see people call him a "terrible emp" because he was killed while grinding mobs with a build that has no chance Emp or not against a great sorc it irks me. I know I couldn't kill Asgari if I was running dual wield + sword and board on my NB as Emp either. You dont have a ranged ability to light attack with to keep ultimate regeneration up so you're forced to rely on melee range abilities and that means constantly wading through mines. However, since I'm not a Vamp and I run Absorb magick with a stam build I'd be pretty close to impossible for him to kill as well.

DisgracefulMind · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

See, this is where it sucks because I'm also a Sorc who likes to actively block when needed, dodge roll when needed, and I play caster, but I try to close distance as much as possible and put a lot of pressure on my opponents. I never did like the stand in mines and attack style of play, though I know its uses, I much prefer boundless storm in place of mines as it better suits my playstyle. I run out of stam efficiently enough at times (you can see it in my videos), and I'm far from the best Sorc, but I find playing like this a lot more fun than the typical kite and nuke Sorc builds. I could have 40k+ magicka easily with 400+ CPs, I could have massive shields, I could have apprentice over atronach, and on, and on; I choose not to play this way because it's just not fun. I agree completely with you that being more reactive is far more skilled play, and it's so saddening that it's being punished in this new meta. I don't much like it at all.

That being said, Asgari is a BEAST. I've played with him a lot, and we've torn through groups through being skilled and aware of the opponents we're fighting. I have no doubt that he could take on most opponents with both his Sorc and DK.

Yeah there is no denying Asgari is an amazing player, I wouldn't say otherwise. And props to him for being one of the few great sorcs I've seen out there who (from what I can tell) isn't exploiting mundus/overload.

What makes me sad is I know Mitra and he's a damn good player as well and one of the best DKs I've run with. If anyone thinks otherwise I'm sure he'd be happy to correct you in game. When I see people call him a "terrible emp" because he was killed while grinding mobs with a build that has no chance Emp or not against a great sorc it irks me. I know I couldn't kill Asgari if I was running dual wield + sword and board on my NB as Emp either. You dont have a ranged ability to light attack with to keep ultimate regeneration up so you're forced to rely on melee range abilities and that means constantly wading through mines. However, since I'm not a Vamp and I run Absorb magick with a stam build I'd be pretty close to impossible for him to kill as well.

Without a doubt both are extremely skilled players. I'd like to see a fight between the two with him as emp in a non-grind build as well. Would be interesting to see the results when both are entirely in their element.

Ezareth · August 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

See, this is where it sucks because I'm also a Sorc who likes to actively block when needed, dodge roll when needed, and I play caster, but I try to close distance as much as possible and put a lot of pressure on my opponents. I never did like the stand in mines and attack style of play, though I know its uses, I much prefer boundless storm in place of mines as it better suits my playstyle. I run out of stam efficiently enough at times (you can see it in my videos), and I'm far from the best Sorc, but I find playing like this a lot more fun than the typical kite and nuke Sorc builds. I could have 40k+ magicka easily with 400+ CPs, I could have massive shields, I could have apprentice over atronach, and on, and on; I choose not to play this way because it's just not fun. I agree completely with you that being more reactive is far more skilled play, and it's so saddening that it's being punished in this new meta. I don't much like it at all.

That being said, Asgari is a BEAST. I've played with him a lot, and we've torn through groups through being skilled and aware of the opponents we're fighting. I have no doubt that he could take on most opponents with both his Sorc and DK.

Yeah there is no denying Asgari is an amazing player, I wouldn't say otherwise. And props to him for being one of the few great sorcs I've seen out there who (from what I can tell) isn't exploiting mundus/overload.

What makes me sad is I know Mitra and he's a damn good player as well and one of the best DKs I've run with. If anyone thinks otherwise I'm sure he'd be happy to correct you in game. When I see people call him a "terrible emp" because he was killed while grinding mobs with a build that has no chance Emp or not against a great sorc it irks me. I know I couldn't kill Asgari if I was running dual wield + sword and board on my NB as Emp either. You dont have a ranged ability to light attack with to keep ultimate regeneration up so you're forced to rely on melee range abilities and that means constantly wading through mines. However, since I'm not a Vamp and I run Absorb magick with a stam build I'd be pretty close to impossible for him to kill as well.

Without a doubt both are extremely skilled players. I'd like to see a fight between the two with him as emp in a non-grind build as well. Would be interesting to see the results when both are entirely in their element.

Yeah I would as well yet for all the reasons mentioned earlier as a magicka DK it would be extremely difficult for him to kill Asgari, Emp or not unless he perhaps went Destro/Resto magicka which I doubt he's practiced with and I don't know enough about DK to say whether that's viable or not.

Now if he switched to stamina with 2H/S&B it would be another story. Emp wrecking blows can be pretty lethal and would force Asgari into actually using his block at times while giving Mitra the ability to dodge/block/absorb the majority of attacks thrown at him.

Waylander · August 2015

If emp had dampen or harness magica and fossilize instead of a CP grind build on I think it would have resulted in a 10 min fight and then respectfully calling it a day.

Magica DK's lack burst (without prox det) and shield stacking sorcs have the most effective defense for effort in the game.

Ishammael · August 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

What makes me sad is I know Mitra and he's a damn good player as well and one of the best DKs I've run with. If anyone thinks otherwise I'm sure he'd be happy to correct you in game. When I see people call him a "terrible emp" because he was killed while grinding mobs with a build that has no chance Emp or not against a great sorc it irks me. I know I couldn't kill Asgari if I was running dual wield + sword and board on my NB as Emp either. You dont have a ranged ability to light attack with to keep ultimate regeneration up so you're forced to rely on melee range abilities and that means constantly wading through mines. However, since I'm not a Vamp and I run Absorb magick with a stam build I'd be pretty close to impossible for him to kill as well.

Yeah Mitra is an excellent player. Annoys me to see videos like this where players get caught with the wrong build in the wrong spot. Unfortunately, that is the nature of this meta and open PvP in general.

Ellwin · August 2015

that emps almost as bad as tripwyre

Fornacis · August 2015

The Dave Chappelle voice over is hillarious. Thanks for the video and laughs.

olsborg · August 2015

Nice, and thank you for not exploiting inner light or mundus stuff. Good vid.

hammayolettuce · August 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

What makes me sad is I know Mitra and he's a damn good player as well and one of the best DKs I've run with. If anyone thinks otherwise I'm sure he'd be happy to correct you in game. When I see people call him a "terrible emp" because he was killed while grinding mobs with a build that has no chance Emp or not against a great sorc it irks me. I know I couldn't kill Asgari if I was running dual wield + sword and board on my NB as Emp either. You dont have a ranged ability to light attack with to keep ultimate regeneration up so you're forced to rely on melee range abilities and that means constantly wading through mines. However, since I'm not a Vamp and I run Absorb magick with a stam build I'd be pretty close to impossible for him to kill as well.

Yeah Mitra is an excellent player. Annoys me to see videos like this where players get caught with the wrong build in the wrong spot. Unfortunately, that is the nature of this meta and open PvP in general.

Asgari had this to say "I was actually looking for the Emp and couldnt find him when i was camping quest areas and taking resources. Also seeing as skills like steel tornado etc weren't used and had skills like lava whip for "AoE" grinding and purge it seems he was more well equipped than you make it seem. Double the regen of me and double the health and probably 2.5 times the stamina. Even the flying blades were almost 1 shotting the conjured wards I was using. This is an MMO after all and it is no ones fault other than Mitra for coming in like they owned the place.

and like i said in the video... You are never safe when im logged on".

olsborg wrote: »

Nice, and thank you for not exploiting inner light or mundus stuff. Good vid.

From Asgari - "I see no need for using things like that in PvP. It is a shame how common of a thing it has become and you are pretty much made fun of or looked down upon by so many for not doing it. That quote everyone keeps saying ""Well if he is using it so will iI.. or .. Everyone else is doing it.."" is nothing more than a cop out. If you are a skilled player you dont need things like this. The only nirnhoned on my sorc is my Helm and my Destro staff".

Winnamine · August 2015

k1llorbek1lled wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

#nerfsorcshields

#scrubemp

yup

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Worst emp ever...what sort of build is that? Molten whip + flying blade ...lmao

yup

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

So from this I take away more proof that sorcs shields are OP?

Darnathian wrote: »

The better question would be could you kill a sorc emp with your dk Asgari? No you could not

Let me help you here...
Sorcs have 1 shield ... not shields

Ariana Kishi could in fact kill a sorc emp

let me help you.. youre his fangirl, ofc you would say he'll win...

sorc class and shields making anyone look good now, not that the player isn't, just saying, the class is just dumb now... kinda like what people used to say about DKs in the summer of 2014 lol

You know what they say...if you don't have anything nice to say....you're probably on the ESO forums

hammayolettuce · August 2015

We actually have an Asgari Fangirl guild and we're recruiting new members. It's a bit of a sausage fest at the moment but if any ladies are interested in joining and sharing in the princess craze, send me a pm. There is a test you must pass before you join; you'll need to know his favorite color and his cat's name as well as his favorite Nicholas Cage movie. Basically we sit around and doodle hearts around his name.

Ishammael · August 2015

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Asgari had this to say "I was actually looking for the Emp and couldnt find him when i was camping quest areas and taking resources. Also seeing as skills like steel tornado etc weren't used and had skills like lava whip for "AoE" grinding and purge it seems he was more well equipped than you make it seem. Double the regen of me and double the health and probably 2.5 times the stamina. Even the flying blades were almost 1 shotting the conjured wards I was using. This is an MMO after all and it is no ones fault other than Mitra for coming in like they owned the place.

Fair enough. Yes the emp was unprepared and it was absolutely his own fault. You played well, with a perfectly executed burst to win the fight. Credit where credit is due, always.

Takllin · August 2015

hammayolettuce wrote: »

We actually have an Asgari Fangirl guild and we're recruiting new members. It's a bit of a sausage fest at the moment but if any ladies are interested in joining and sharing in the princess craze, send me a pm. There is a test you must pass before you join; you'll need to know his favorite color and his cat's name as well as his favorite Nicholas Cage movie. Basically we sit around and doodle hearts around his name.

If I roleplay as a lady is it good enough to get me in?

RinaldoGandolphi · August 2015

The biggest problem with damage shields in this game is their mechanic.

They are used to "extend" ones health bar, in other words increasing your max health and can be spammed over and over and when you consider the magic spent to shield value its pretty ridiculous how cheap they are.

Right now in PVP its either have a damage shield or go home, and classes or players that don't use a damage shield are at a significant disadvantage against those who do.

@ZOS_RichLambert The Fix to this is very very easy, so easy infact that it could be done before the IPC launches and wouldn't even need much testing to be done as the core game code is already there with the Nord Rugged Passive.

If ZOS is willing to implement these changes, it would really help things alot:

1. Hardened Ward is replaced with Ebony Flesh which reduces all incoming damage by 30% for 8 secs(gives Minor Resolve and Minor Ward)
2. Sun Shield is replaced by Aegis which reduces all incoming damage by 25% for 6 secs (does damage on activation or explodes at end)
3. Obsidian Shield is replaced by Dragonhide that reduces all incoming damage by 25% for 7 secs(keeps its passive healing or giivng allies the buff)
4. Barrier is replaced with Guarded Shield that reduces all incoming damage by 50% for 10 secs

Now this prevents light armor users from being one shotted and makes them a little more sturdy, but spamming these spells will not save your life nor extend your HP bar, your enemy is still hitting your HP bar, just for less damage. This will have the added effect of pushing all the classes to put more points in HP and overall round out the game while also making Heavy Armor far more valuable.

The biggest complaint i see/hear with damage shields is the fact they prevent someone from actually damaging your HP bar and their cheap spammable costs make them just so efficient.

Change the mechanic ZOS, this is your chance to get it right....a 25-30% reduction in damage for 6-8 secs is VERY good while not being OP, and it will move folks to invest more into HP which IMO anything that gets players to invest more in HP is good for the state of pvp, for the state of the game for that matter.

GRxKnight · August 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The biggest problem with damage shields in this game is their mechanic.

They are used to "extend" ones health bar, in other words increasing your max health and can be spammed over and over and when you consider the magic spent to shield value its pretty ridiculous how cheap they are.

Right now in PVP its either have a damage shield or go home, and classes or players that don't use a damage shield are at a significant disadvantage against those who do.

@ZOS_RichLambert The Fix to this is very very easy, so easy infact that it could be done before the IPC launches and wouldn't even need much testing to be done as the core game code is already there with the Nord Rugged Passive.

If ZOS is willing to implement these changes, it would really help things alot:
1. Hardened Ward is replaced with Ebony Flesh which reduces all incoming damage by 30% for 8 secs(gives Minor Resolve and Minor Ward)

2. Sun Shield is replaced by Aegis which reduces all incoming damage by 25% for 6 secs (does damage on activation or explodes at end)

3. Obsidian Shield is replaced by Dragonhide that reduces all incoming damage by 25% for 7 secs(keeps its passive healing or giivng allies the buff)

4. Barrier is replaced with Guarded Shield that reduces all incoming damage by 50% for 10 secs

Now this prevents light armor users from being one shotted and makes them a little more sturdy, but spamming these spells will not save your life nor extend your HP bar, your enemy is still hitting your HP bar, just for less damage. This will have the added effect of pushing all the classes to put more points in HP and overall round out the game while also making Heavy Armor far more valuable.

The biggest complaint i see/hear with damage shields is the fact they prevent someone from actually damaging your HP bar and their cheap spammable costs make them just so efficient.

Change the mechanic ZOS, this is your chance to get it right....a 25-30% reduction in damage for 6-8 secs is VERY good while not being OP, and it will move folks to invest more into HP which IMO anything that gets players to invest more in HP is good for the state of pvp, for the state of the game for that matter.

Where's the lol button when you need it...

Dude shields are a staple of this game so deal with it...sorcs have to use 3 of these on their back bar to be viable in pvp so that really only leaves them with 7 other skills they can use...nbs templars and DK's don't have this problem they're fine without shield stacking...stop trying to change the game because you can't killa good sorc

RinaldoGandolphi · August 2015

Just my 2 cents, not here to argue nor defend myself. I Don't need to. I was never a fan of the way damage shields work even though i was forced to use them. I accept their part of the game, but i don't have to like them.

Darnathian · August 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And that's the real problem, with Tri-pots and enough CPs you literally have zero opportunity to drain a sorc of stamina. His shields mean he *never* has to block and *never* has to dodge roll so they only stamina expenditure he has is break free. He can recast shields faster than you can damage him and if he is skilled, he's never going to let his shield stack fall to the point where he is vulnerable.

This is the critical issue that is driving everybody mad trying to fight magicka sorcs. For months and months we were told "don''t be stupid, you kill sorcs by attacking their stamina. L2P."

If a sorc is skilled in knowing when to use stamina, their stamina is not a vulnerability. Their only vulnerability is some combination of multiple players, extreme burst damage, and their own mistakes.

Nothing in 2.1, or in recent statements by devs indicates and fundamental change. We will see if the series of incremental changes has any effect.

Well at the beginning of 1.6 this was the strategy.

Enter Werewolf for everyone and 300+ CPs for most top tier players and then shields that have grown to the point where blocking and dodge rolling is never needed and you have a sorc that can't run out of stamina.

This will change slightly come 2.1 with the nerf to werewolf/vamp/emp regen passives but by then we'll have even more CPs, better stam regen, V15 Food/Tripots, larger stam pool etc.

The other thing you have to think of is you're not always in a position to CC a player as soon as he is vulnerable again which in a sorc's case means he is getting back ahead of the stamina drain game. Mitra was AoE grinding so he didn't have petrify slotted obviously so his only CC was invasion which means he has to be prepared to eat another row of mines. There were several instances there where he just wasn't in a position to safely invasion as Asgari came out of his invulnerability.

It costs Asgari 4455 Stamina to break free.

He gets back 637 Stamina ever 2 without using a Tri-pot which means he's a Werewolf, has X-Emp passive and 6% in stamina regen in his CPs. With a Tripot he gets back 764 Stamina every 2 seconds, plus 5778 Stamina from the Tri-pot itself which over the 45 second cooldown brings him to a maximum stamina gain of 892.4 (if he needs it).

You gain immunity for 8 seconds after breaking free meaning that if Mitra CC'ed Asgari *perfectly* every 8 seconds for the duration of the fight he would run him out of Stamina in just under 2 minutes. Any second of not being CC'ed is bonus regen and extends that out so it's pretty unrealistic in any scenario facing a good sorc who doesn't need to dodge roll or block to run them out of stamina.

It's pretty much the same matchup as German versus that other DK Emp, neither one had much of a chance over a long enough fight unless the sorc forgets to refresh his shield and Asgari didn't make any major mistakes that I saw.

To summarize, Ez (for those who skimmed): 4455 / 4 = 1114 stam regen required to always be able to break free. While not trivial per se, it pretty easy to accomplish between CPs and tripots.

Keep in mind that is 1114 stamina regen under a worst case scenario that I've yet to see happen. If you're not over 1000 Stamina regen it's because you're running food and with food you can break free 3 times in a row if you have decent CPs.

My Sorc has ~1306 stamina regen but I'm running drink and not food like Asgari. I also prefer reactively blocking CCs and using dodge rolls etc which while being more skillful is a style of play that is currently punished in the existing meta and the next.

The most powerful sorc build right now is the max magicka/shields and just keep your shields active while standing in mine and crushing shock/light attack/mines/VC dawnbreaker your enemies to death that Asgari and many other sorcs like him are using and it's only going to become more powerful in 2.1

See, this is where it sucks because I'm also a Sorc who likes to actively block when needed, dodge roll when needed, and I play caster, but I try to close distance as much as possible and put a lot of pressure on my opponents. I never did like the stand in mines and attack style of play, though I know its uses, I much prefer boundless storm in place of mines as it better suits my playstyle. I run out of stam efficiently enough at times (you can see it in my videos), and I'm far from the best Sorc, but I find playing like this a lot more fun than the typical kite and nuke Sorc builds. I could have 40k+ magicka easily with 400+ CPs, I could have massive shields, I could have apprentice over atronach, and on, and on; I choose not to play this way because it's just not fun. I agree completely with you that being more reactive is far more skilled play, and it's so saddening that it's being punished in this new meta. I don't much like it at all.

That being said, Asgari is a BEAST. I've played with him a lot, and we've torn through groups through being skilled and aware of the opponents we're fighting. I have no doubt that he could take on most opponents with both his Sorc and DK.

False. He would not kill a Sorc Emp with his DK. Unless as stated above that emp was really bad.

Darnathian · August 2015

GRxKnight wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The biggest problem with damage shields in this game is their mechanic.

They are used to "extend" ones health bar, in other words increasing your max health and can be spammed over and over and when you consider the magic spent to shield value its pretty ridiculous how cheap they are.

Right now in PVP its either have a damage shield or go home, and classes or players that don't use a damage shield are at a significant disadvantage against those who do.

@ZOS_RichLambert The Fix to this is very very easy, so easy infact that it could be done before the IPC launches and wouldn't even need much testing to be done as the core game code is already there with the Nord Rugged Passive.

If ZOS is willing to implement these changes, it would really help things alot:
1. Hardened Ward is replaced with Ebony Flesh which reduces all incoming damage by 30% for 8 secs(gives Minor Resolve and Minor Ward)

2. Sun Shield is replaced by Aegis which reduces all incoming damage by 25% for 6 secs (does damage on activation or explodes at end)

3. Obsidian Shield is replaced by Dragonhide that reduces all incoming damage by 25% for 7 secs(keeps its passive healing or giivng allies the buff)

4. Barrier is replaced with Guarded Shield that reduces all incoming damage by 50% for 10 secs

Now this prevents light armor users from being one shotted and makes them a little more sturdy, but spamming these spells will not save your life nor extend your HP bar, your enemy is still hitting your HP bar, just for less damage. This will have the added effect of pushing all the classes to put more points in HP and overall round out the game while also making Heavy Armor far more valuable.

The biggest complaint i see/hear with damage shields is the fact they prevent someone from actually damaging your HP bar and their cheap spammable costs make them just so efficient.

Change the mechanic ZOS, this is your chance to get it right....a 25-30% reduction in damage for 6-8 secs is VERY good while not being OP, and it will move folks to invest more into HP which IMO anything that gets players to invest more in HP is good for the state of pvp, for the state of the game for that matter.

Where's the lol button when you need it...

Dude shields are a staple of this game so deal with it...sorcs have to use 3 of these on their back bar to be viable in pvp so that really only leaves them with 7 other skills they can use...nbs templars and DK's don't have this problem they're fine without shield stacking...stop trying to change the game because you can't killa good sorc

Right back at you. LOL

Viable? They are way more than viable. Even below average sorcs are tough to kill. There are a select few good sorcs. Not all the ones that joined the fotm club and copied others OP builds. Nice try.

GRxKnight · August 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The biggest problem with damage shields in this game is their mechanic.

They are used to "extend" ones health bar, in other words increasing your max health and can be spammed over and over and when you consider the magic spent to shield value its pretty ridiculous how cheap they are.

Right now in PVP its either have a damage shield or go home, and classes or players that don't use a damage shield are at a significant disadvantage against those who do.

@ZOS_RichLambert The Fix to this is very very easy, so easy infact that it could be done before the IPC launches and wouldn't even need much testing to be done as the core game code is already there with the Nord Rugged Passive.

If ZOS is willing to implement these changes, it would really help things alot:
1. Hardened Ward is replaced with Ebony Flesh which reduces all incoming damage by 30% for 8 secs(gives Minor Resolve and Minor Ward)

2. Sun Shield is replaced by Aegis which reduces all incoming damage by 25% for 6 secs (does damage on activation or explodes at end)

3. Obsidian Shield is replaced by Dragonhide that reduces all incoming damage by 25% for 7 secs(keeps its passive healing or giivng allies the buff)

4. Barrier is replaced with Guarded Shield that reduces all incoming damage by 50% for 10 secs

Now this prevents light armor users from being one shotted and makes them a little more sturdy, but spamming these spells will not save your life nor extend your HP bar, your enemy is still hitting your HP bar, just for less damage. This will have the added effect of pushing all the classes to put more points in HP and overall round out the game while also making Heavy Armor far more valuable.

The biggest complaint i see/hear with damage shields is the fact they prevent someone from actually damaging your HP bar and their cheap spammable costs make them just so efficient.

Change the mechanic ZOS, this is your chance to get it right....a 25-30% reduction in damage for 6-8 secs is VERY good while not being OP, and it will move folks to invest more into HP which IMO anything that gets players to invest more in HP is good for the state of pvp, for the state of the game for that matter.

Where's the lol button when you need it...

Dude shields are a staple of this game so deal with it...sorcs have to use 3 of these on their back bar to be viable in pvp so that really only leaves them with 7 other skills they can use...nbs templars and DK's don't have this problem they're fine without shield stacking...stop trying to change the game because you can't killa good sorc

Right back at you. LOL

Viable? They are way more than viable. Even below average sorcs are tough to kill. There are a select few good sorcs. Not all the ones that joined the fotm club and copied others OP builds. Nice try.

Maybe viable was the wrong word...i have seen a few stam sorcs run around and cause mayhem...fengrush comes to mind when i think of that...i guess what I'm saying is what other good sorc builds are out there that don't run those 3 skills on their bar and not because they have to...I'm still new to playing sorc so i don't have much knowledge yet of their skill set but from what I've gathered by talking with other sorcs is that those 3 abilities are a must on every sorc

RinaldoGandolphi · August 2015

GRxKnight wrote: »

Maybe viable was the wrong word...i have seen a few stam sorcs run around and cause mayhem...fengrush comes to mind when i think of that...i guess what I'm saying is what other good sorc builds are out there that don't run those 3 skills on their bar and not because they have to...I'm still new to playing sorc so i don't have much knowledge yet of their skill set but from what I've gathered by talking with other sorcs is that those 3 abilities are a must on every sorc

I have been playing Sorc since beta, and I have held my own against some of the best, won and lost my fair share. Its a game have fun.

that being said

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbj8bQc8E_M

There is a Video of Pixysticks (A guy i had quite a few fun fights with, too bad he left the game, such a class person) he doesn't have huge damage shields or tons of points into Bastion, yet he was still wrecking people and was not using the standard cookie cutter build. Infact, when i play my Sorc i run a similar style with my own kiting mixed in.

Pet builds are also viable, if you can get your hands on a Maw of the Infernal Set you can with your Atronach have 4 Pets out at once, its very viable i assure you, and against another Sorc you can keep pressure on him 100% of the time, and hide behind Ball of Lighting to Recast as everytime he kils your Clanfear he gives you 35% of your max health back. The fact you can Ward your pets including your Atronach and tag your target with Daedric Prey, its very viable, Bolterity has been owning people with a Pet build, i shudder at the day he gets his hands on a complete Maw of the Infernal set. As that set benefits from Daedric Prey and the Sorc Daedric Summon passives.

Im just saying there are a few more then viable ways to play a Sorc, and if you can get the micro management down a pet build is very good even in PVP. Teargrants sometimes runs a 5 Heavy Armor Sorc and does very very well with Sword and Board and Destro Staff using Healing Orbs from the Undaunted line.

Please don't misunderstand my wanting shields changed, if they keep nerfing them anymore they will be useless and not viable anymore and folks keep clamoring to nerf them, changing them to a damage reduction makes them every bit as good as they are now, just in a different way, infact i'd have more surviability in some cases with a damage reduction then a damage sheild, its all situational.

Regardless, the Sorc class as a whole is a lot of fun, and don't be afraid to branch out and try new things, a pet build can be very powerful, many folks don't realize how tough those pets are, they are far tougher then many realize.

Take care and best of luck to you

GRxKnight · August 2015

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Maybe viable was the wrong word...i have seen a few stam sorcs run around and cause mayhem...fengrush comes to mind when i think of that...i guess what I'm saying is what other good sorc builds are out there that don't run those 3 skills on their bar and not because they have to...I'm still new to playing sorc so i don't have much knowledge yet of their skill set but from what I've gathered by talking with other sorcs is that those 3 abilities are a must on every sorc

I have been playing Sorc since beta, and I have held my own against some of the best, won and lost my fair share. Its a game have fun.

that being said

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbj8bQc8E_M

There is a Video of Pixysticks (A guy i had quite a few fun fights with, too bad he left the game, such a class person) he doesn't have huge damage shields or tons of points into Bastion, yet he was still wrecking people and was not using the standard cookie cutter build. Infact, when i play my Sorc i run a similar style with my own kiting mixed in.

Pet builds are also viable, if you can get your hands on a Maw of the Infernal Set you can with your Atronach have 4 Pets out at once, its very viable i assure you, and against another Sorc you can keep pressure on him 100% of the time, and hide behind Ball of Lighting to Recast as everytime he kils your Clanfear he gives you 35% of your max health back. The fact you can Ward your pets including your Atronach and tag your target with Daedric Prey, its very viable, Bolterity has been owning people with a Pet build, i shudder at the day he gets his hands on a complete Maw of the Infernal set. As that set benefits from Daedric Prey and the Sorc Daedric Summon passives.

Im just saying there are a few more then viable ways to play a Sorc, and if you can get the micro management down a pet build is very good even in PVP. Teargrants sometimes runs a 5 Heavy Armor Sorc and does very very well with Sword and Board and Destro Staff using Healing Orbs from the Undaunted line.

Please don't misunderstand my wanting shields changed, if they keep nerfing them anymore they will be useless and not viable anymore and folks keep clamoring to nerf them, changing them to a damage reduction makes them every bit as good as they are now, just in a different way, infact i'd have more surviability in some cases with a damage reduction then a damage sheild, its all situational.

Regardless, the Sorc class as a whole is a lot of fun, and don't be afraid to branch out and try new things, a pet build can be very powerful, many folks don't realize how tough those pets are, they are far tougher then many realize.

Take care and best of luck to you

Yeah a pet build seems interesting it would just take some time getting used to macroing the pets and all that

Psilent · August 2015

Mitra is a great player and has one of the toughest groups in the game to beat when they are firing on all cylinders. Love fighting Mitra and TM; been fighting them for over a year now.

Looks like to me Mitra walked into a delve to grind CP and then ran into one of the best sorcs in the game. Who was actively hunting for 1v1 play.

Lots of respect for both Asgari and Mitra; two of my favorite players in the game. However, calling someone a scrub because they lost one match is awful. Need to look at their entire playing career and then make that call.

Darnathian · August 2015

Why do you think he is on a sorc and not his dk? Another Fotm.

Dk is in a sorry state and about to become worse. Look at syphers last video. He is successful because he stays alive until reinforcements come and kills one guy. Lol

hammayolettuce · August 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Why do you think he is on a sorc and not his dk? Another Fotm.

Dk is in a sorry state and about to become worse. Look at syphers last video. He is successful because he stays alive until reinforcements come and kills one guy. Lol

Response from Asgari - " HAHA ... So you mean to tell me because you and all the other bads who lose to sorcs and think sorcs are fotm i cant play my sorc that i made on day1 release of the game? The sorc has over 120 /played days on it alone not including the /played time from my other chars. Sypher gave up on magicka DK because he went to the real fotm which was stam nb. I guess you missed all the magicka DK videos i have posted along with sorc videos, i haven't given up on DK and will still continue to be a top DK player for NA. You honestly can't expect a person to not play chars they have had created and put more time into than most casuals in this game with all their chars combined. "

Ezareth · August 2015

hammayolettuce wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Why do you think he is on a sorc and not his dk? Another Fotm.

Dk is in a sorry state and about to become worse. Look at syphers last video. He is successful because he stays alive until reinforcements come and kills one guy. Lol

Response from Asgari - " HAHA ... So you mean to tell me because you and all the other bads who lose to sorcs and think sorcs are fotm i cant play my sorc that i made on day1 release of the game? The sorc has over 120 /played days on it alone not including the /played time from my other chars. Sypher gave up on magicka DK because he went to the real fotm which was stam nb. I guess you missed all the magicka DK videos i have posted along with sorc videos, i haven't given up on DK and will still continue to be a top DK player for NA. You honestly can't expect a person to not play chars they have had created and put more time into than most casuals in this game with all their chars combined. "

I hope you're not trying to deny that Sorcs are not grossly OP right now. Sure in the hands of a bad player they die easy enough, but in the hands of a good or a great player they are impossible to kill in a 1 v 1 unless there is some lag/bug component involved. Shields right now are just ridiculous. Most of the great sorcs take 3 players to take down with any sort of certainty. I do it with 2 against good ones but the best sorcs manage their stamina perfectly and as long as they can break free you can't burst through their shields and their health faster than they can refresh them.

That's part of the reason I haven't touched my sorc in 3 months. They are so easymode right now it's not even fun and I'm half gimping myself not min/maxing my shield like almost every other sorc out there. With CPs and a properly set up sorc, they're just stupid right now. Any sorc out there who tries to argue otherwise is either deceiving themselves or they just haven't tried facing another good sorc with any other class out there.