GeneralFlogger wrote: »

First thread here, been playing Elder Scrolls since morrowind as well I have played many mmorpgs such as UO, SWTOR etc... I just don't understand the outrage around the current VR system or champ points? Most threads I've read are, for the most part, suggesting that lvl 10 characters should be competitive immediately. In what game has this ever been the case? That you can expect to be just as competitive as someone who has gone through and completed the majority of the content when you choose not to. Because, in most all of these threads that is what is being argued is someone's choice not to complete a system implemented by ZOS to lvl up your char and make you more competitve in both pvp and pve. If you are choosing not to run the quests why get on here and whine about it? It's not like anyone is forcing you to play this game and nothing is owed to you just for purchasing the cd or dl. Ultimately it's how you decide to play, but if your gonna sit around at a crafting hub or focus on grinding npcs or pks instead of utilizing the quest system than re adjust your expectations. I leveled lvl 1 to vr14 in about a month and a half. I also work a full time job and take care of a family of 4. I don't see how so many people are having such a hard time with this system unless they just dislike the game in which case, by all means, go find something else, at the very least it will cut down the load times for cyrodiil for those of us that do.

I have beat the game and done a decent amount of Ads quest. Sitting at v4, played the normal campaign from level 10-v1, came back at v2. For 1 you don't level at all in PvP, 2nd farming NPCs is the more efficient way to get CPs. And what's wrong with being competive at level 10, well as competive as a level 10 can be? Just got my buddy hooked on the game, we only PvP he is level 16 now. He killed a vet6 1v1 last night. What's wrong with that? Of my buddy is better at the game than a v6 then the v6 deserves to die. Now let's talk CPs. I don't care how many hours you farmed NPCs, no one has earned the privilege to be able to 1v10 and win, unless youre an Emp. The game can't only be fun for the grinders but it also has to be for the new players too or the new players don't become old players and the game dies. Get it? It's about the longevity of the game. And the boosts they give non vets is great and works. The CPs on the other hand don't. Every maxed v14 shouldn't feel like fighting an under powered emp. It ruins PvP, even tho it feels great smashing a v14 even tho in the back of my mind I know he went down way too easy to be a max cp guy, but that's what the v14 represents in PvP these days.

@markt84 Which is part of my point, that "new player" aspect you say is necessary already exists people just refuse to take advantage of it to get to were they want to go.

markt84 wrote: »

GeneralFlogger wrote: »

Which is my point, that "new player" aspect already exists people just refuse to take advantage of it to get to were they want to go.

Come again? I'm a new player, I've only been playing since console release, have sunk all kinds of hours into the game to level from level 10-v4 in basically solely PvP. I don't like the system, I'm going to play the game how I like to play it, I'm not going to go farm NPCs to become "better" at PvP, I'm actually going to play PvP. The cp system is a system that rewards the farmers and not the players. do this is an issue for me and I'm a v4. So when is a "new player" no longer new? And you love your CPs great, keep them, just allow us to play PvP without them. And the "new player" can never catch up with the old player unless the old player just stops playing. And that's cool as long as the new player can play somewhere else until get gets enough CPs to compete

And you don't see how it's your choice to "only" pvp? Is anyone holding you back from finishing the almanac quests? So by your own admission you are choosing to do something other than lvl up. Why should the entire game be changed to cater to you giving up early?

Adding text chat will make stuff easier

GeneralFlogger wrote: »

markt84 wrote: »

GeneralFlogger wrote: »

Which is my point, that "new player" aspect already exists people just refuse to take advantage of it to get to were they want to go.

Come again? I'm a new player, I've only been playing since console release, have sunk all kinds of hours into the game to level from level 10-v4 in basically solely PvP. I don't like the system, I'm going to play the game how I like to play it, I'm not going to go farm NPCs to become "better" at PvP, I'm actually going to play PvP. The cp system is a system that rewards the farmers and not the players. do this is an issue for me and I'm a v4. So when is a "new player" no longer new? And you love your CPs great, keep them, just allow us to play PvP without them. And the "new player" can never catch up with the old player unless the old player just stops playing. And that's cool as long as the new player can play somewhere else until get gets enough CPs to compete

And you don't see how it's your choice to "only" pvp? Is anyone holding you back from finishing the almanac quests? So by your own admission you are choosing to do something other than lvl up. Why should the entire game be changed to cater to you giving up early?

Yes I enjoy PvP. Why should I have to PvE just to get better at PvP? Dude I beat the game. I'm going to play the game the way I enjoy playing it. Giving up on what? Why should the game cater to the people that farm NPCs all day?

The reason why people don't want a non-cp campaign is because they are terrified that that will turn into the popular way to PvP. And they are horrified at the idea of losing their competive advantage. You still have a lot better gear and weapons, you still should beat a v4 easy, unless you suck. So stop trying to fight to hide your lack of skill behind a wall of CPs

markt84 wrote: »

Oh yeah, and I'm not playing every other mmo, I'm tired of that argument. I bought eso, not star wars (that is p2w), that's why I'm posting this is an eso forum. So I want to game I'm playing to work to do what I think would be best for the majority of the community and the longevity of the game

Still doesn't change the fact that it is your choice not to complete content readily available to you that will solve most all of what you're trying to argue. I don't see how making 2/3rd of the game irrelevant is by any means better for the longevity of the game. It's just amazing to me how people feel so entitled to what others have without wanting to put the necessary work into actually achieving something.

Zen's plan is to marry casual (0-4 hour per day) and hc (6+ hour per day) players as far I know. Times are rough and there isnt enough people to pull some crazy stuns now. It could be mental too, you're finishing the story and getting high "Im almost done" and then the game throws more than double content to you.

markt84 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If I could offer some insight....

I played on PC and was able to copy over to console.

-I had a few VR chars and some CP's
-Some others had a few VR14's and over 100 CP's or more

For PvP it was a huge disadvantage in the eyes of some fresh to console players who feel that the CP's and VR chars are the reason they are being dominated in PvP. (There is some merit to those arguments)

Also...there is the argument that CP's should not be in PvP at all regardless of console or PC (there is merit to those arguments)

Then you have the Vr1-VR10 zones coupled with CP's that are basically (in many points of view including mine) a bad idea in the way the extra content is offered because after finishing your faction the Vr1-VR10 zones or what's called silver and gold quests are not optional but required. (The skill pts and shards) can only be obtained by going through those zones.

All in All some of my personal opinions or points the game should...
-play as is 1-50
-VR levels should not be in the game at all
-Silver n gold quests should be offered content but the shards and skill points should not only available from these zones.
-people want to play the game and especially PvP focused players who have no interest in siding with the enemy via silver n gold quests shouldn't be forced to.
-grinding has been altered to the point where it's really only possible to level up effectively by doing silver n gold quests only

And I don't understand how that isn't everyone's opinion. I love PvP, I'll do more PvE zones eventually, probably when more of my friends get closer to my level. And i am at a disadvantage for not completing all the PvE content. I'm cool with that. I'm very comfortable at v4 in PvP with only 5 CPs slotted and 28 not in use. I don't see a need for CPs right now. I like killing people because I'm better than them, not because I'm a endgame boss with my CPs

Why everyone doesn't feel that way....

Simple.
Some are here for a new TES game and want a solo PvE long game.
Some want a traditional MMO with traditional pieces
Some (me) want a new and fresh online game with co-op and solo opportunities for PvE as well as occasional PvP
Some just want a fully MOD-able game

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Perspective. In 6 hours I and the small 3 man party did a few Crag quests and 8+ delves and with the ring of Mara and 50% exp scrolls I didn't even gain 1 VR level while enlightened and just a few CP's

Terrible use of time

Enlightened only applies to your CP, not regular xp.

XP scrolls only give bonus xp from kills, not quests. Craglorn kill xp was nerfed a long time ago.

Terrible reading comprehension.

People do crap like this guy and blame the game for their own ignorance.

markt84 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If I could offer some insight....

I played on PC and was able to copy over to console.

-I had a few VR chars and some CP's
-Some others had a few VR14's and over 100 CP's or more

For PvP it was a huge disadvantage in the eyes of some fresh to console players who feel that the CP's and VR chars are the reason they are being dominated in PvP. (There is some merit to those arguments)

Also...there is the argument that CP's should not be in PvP at all regardless of console or PC (there is merit to those arguments)

Then you have the Vr1-VR10 zones coupled with CP's that are basically (in many points of view including mine) a bad idea in the way the extra content is offered because after finishing your faction the Vr1-VR10 zones or what's called silver and gold quests are not optional but required. (The skill pts and shards) can only be obtained by going through those zones.

All in All some of my personal opinions or points the game should...
-play as is 1-50
-VR levels should not be in the game at all
-Silver n gold quests should be offered content but the shards and skill points should not only available from these zones.
-people want to play the game and especially PvP focused players who have no interest in siding with the enemy via silver n gold quests shouldn't be forced to.
-grinding has been altered to the point where it's really only possible to level up effectively by doing silver n gold quests only

And I don't understand how that isn't everyone's opinion. I love PvP, I'll do more PvE zones eventually, probably when more of my friends get closer to my level. And i am at a disadvantage for not completing all the PvE content. I'm cool with that. I'm very comfortable at v4 in PvP with only 5 CPs slotted and 28 not in use. I don't see a need for CPs right now. I like killing people because I'm better than them, not because I'm a endgame boss with my CPs

This. You've gotten to a lvl you are competitive at but you understand the limitations your choice sets for you. You basically control the level of difficulty you are playing at. But you made a choice and have adjusted your expectations accordingly. I don't see how other people make the same choice but expect either to be maxed out or have the entire game adjusted just because they decided to stop progressing.

GeneralFlogger wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If I could offer some insight....

I played on PC and was able to copy over to console.

-I had a few VR chars and some CP's
-Some others had a few VR14's and over 100 CP's or more

For PvP it was a huge disadvantage in the eyes of some fresh to console players who feel that the CP's and VR chars are the reason they are being dominated in PvP. (There is some merit to those arguments)

Also...there is the argument that CP's should not be in PvP at all regardless of console or PC (there is merit to those arguments)

Then you have the Vr1-VR10 zones coupled with CP's that are basically (in many points of view including mine) a bad idea in the way the extra content is offered because after finishing your faction the Vr1-VR10 zones or what's called silver and gold quests are not optional but required. (The skill pts and shards) can only be obtained by going through those zones.

All in All some of my personal opinions or points the game should...
-play as is 1-50
-VR levels should not be in the game at all
-Silver n gold quests should be offered content but the shards and skill points should not only available from these zones.
-people want to play the game and especially PvP focused players who have no interest in siding with the enemy via silver n gold quests shouldn't be forced to.
-grinding has been altered to the point where it's really only possible to level up effectively by doing silver n gold quests only

The only thing not listed here? Playing the game and adapting to what gains you the most experience. I am not arguing that the vr levels and champ points give advantage. But I believe they should. Every player is capable of achieving the same rank and the same number of champ points. So why not push for that rather than cry and whine about others who have already put the time in? I just hit VR14 and have a long way to go on the champ point system. Rather than complain about others with more than me I'm going to find a way to max my gain and adjust my game play accordingly. Is that not the basic path of progression of any video game mmorpg or not from the beginning of time? Why and how is it any different here?

I completely get what you're saying.
Not that you're wrong at all and your logic is sound.

Problem is the ppl playing the game don't all have the same ideas of what is fun.
ANd that this CP idea was suppose to be removing VR levels but...yeah it kinda seems like a lie and a poor implementation by ZOS.

I'm open to either but just inserting my opinions to compromise and try and create a happy medium for many or most

gjmgamesub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Perspective. In 6 hours I and the small 3 man party did a few Crag quests and 8+ delves and with the ring of Mara and 50% exp scrolls I didn't even gain 1 VR level while enlightened and just a few CP's

Terrible use of time

Enlightened only applies to your CP, not regular xp.

XP scrolls only give bonus xp from kills, not quests. Craglorn kill xp was nerfed a long time ago.

Terrible reading comprehension.

People do crap like this guy and blame the game for their own ignorance.

Not sure how to take your comment but I'm not upset with the results as I knew how the exp worked and the bonuses but I thought to give the OP a realistic and actual application with details of my outcome.

That approach resulted in poor results to gain VR levels AND CP's by comparison to other grinding approaches.

markt84 wrote: »

GeneralFlogger wrote: »

markt84 wrote: »

Oh yeah, and I'm not playing every other mmo, I'm tired of that argument. I bought eso, not star wars (that is p2w), that's why I'm posting this is an eso forum. So I want to game I'm playing to work to do what I think would be best for the majority of the community and the longevity of the game

Still doesn't change the fact that it is your choice not to complete content readily available to you that will solve most all of what you're trying to argue. I don't see how making 2/3rd of the game irrelevant is by any means better for the longevity of the game. It's just amazing to me how people feel so entitled to what others have without wanting to put the necessary work into actually achieving something.

Dude I love PvP, why would I go do something I don't enjoy just to get better at something I do enjoy doing. It's a game not a job, I should have to feel like I'm grinding on the way to endgame. Games that make me feel like that I don't play. Like New Vegas, loved fallout 3, new Vegas was a drag and felt like work, didn't beat it. Games should be fun and enjoyable, and an mmo should make the game enjoyable no matter how you want to play it. And I like PvP, just because you famed NPCs for way too many hours to let people know the exact time spent, doesn't mean I should. Sorry guy, I'm not going to intentionally burn myself out on a game I love playing. I don't need to feel like a god to enjoy myself, I don't need a video game to make me feel like a big man. I do it for fun

Again that's my point, you can pvp in most any game, you choose to play a game which you seem to dislike the majority of its content? Maybe find a game you can enjoy more than 25% of? Why should the game be changed for you?

I think that the time and effort that people spend grinding, whether it be NPC's for CP's; questing for leveling; practicing vet dungeons; or practicing PVP should have a direct impact on your abilities in comparison to the other people around you. Otherwise, what the hell is the point of me participating in these activities for hours on end? I don't play an MMO to be on the same level as everyone else around me.

I play an MMO so that I can put in a lot of hours and become a more powerful player. What is the point of going into the VR questing zones if they aren't the best ways to level up? If they weren't worth doing then I wouldn't spend my time grinding out all of the quests and skyshards. But oh goodness when I finish getting my skyshards, going through the quests and grinding out CP's I feel more powerful, as I should. Just because you're lazy or don't have time to put hours into grinding out your character doesn't mean that the system is broken. What it means is that the system works! I'm not here to be on the same level as all of you!! I'm here to become the hero of Tamriel and exterminate anyone who wants to take that title away from me.

If you think that it's too much work to max yourself out and go through the grind (which I find to be a very fun and entertaining grind) then you're just weak. You clearly aren't the hero of Tamriel since you're not committed enough to put in the time and effort that it takes to become a skilled adventurer. Have fun working the rest of your days in the Vulkhel Guard inn, peasant.