Better Argonians & Other Race Improvements

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2015

The Argonian looks like the oddest duck in the list of races. Its like they wanted to make them useful for tanks, without actually doing so. To compare, its quite clear they balanced Nord to be a bit more akin to the Imperial with a 6% Damage Reduction + 6% health, frost resist and a strong base regeneration bonus. The Imperial gets its survivability more from an unreliable red diamond (no more caltrops) and its stronger stamina.

The Argonian gets +3% to health, +6% tri-resource return from potions, a weak poison/disease resistance, +6% healing reception and 50% swim speed. I'm surprised they didn't increase the max health on this race, although I actually have a preference on the reworking of this race. I am fine with Argonians having lower base attributes, but from a thematic perspective I really feel they should have the absolute highest health regeneration of any race (Hist skin). Additionally, I've always been surprised that they do not have a trait similar to stealthy, call it 'Guerrilla Warfare' lets say to give them a better stealth radius. Ultimately, I believe there are a lot of ways they could go with the Argonian but in its current state its still not enough. The Nord plays on the same faction and its just a better tank.

The other race which I feel is now behind is the Redguard. No other race is so heavily slanted toward Stamina bonuses, and yet it seems the least interesting for Stamina builds to me at this time. When I saw the Regeneration boost the Altmer received I was really confused they didn't push similar numbers on the Redguard. Its true Redguards get some extra stamina return (on melee striking) but it pales in comparison to Bosmer Stamina regeneration. If I want to play Stamina DPS, I just feel Bosmer and Orc are now going to be a much better option.

Khajiit still seems a bit inferior as well (If you have a tail it seems bad luck). I'm just not certain 2% more crit (to 8%) on weapons can even come close to comparing to the stamina/weapon damage numbers that one can get from a Bosmer, Redguard, Imperial or Orc. This race still feels inferior to the Bosmer for the stealthy role.

I have more thoughts on the subject matter but I just wanted to get the topic rolling here. Do you feel that ZoS is 'done' with fixing the racial passives or do they need to do a little more work?

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2015

I was listening to Imperial City Special: Live Q&A -- 7/31 while eating breakfast and typing that post. I just now heard Eric Wroebel discuss his changes to Argonians. They sound a lot better based on what he just said. +3% more health, 9% bonus to incoming heals, and of course the boost to potion tri-resource. I think with all those things Argonians are a much better tanky race than before. My statements regarding Khajiit and Redguard remain the same.

Junkogen · August 2015

The racials are what they are. They're never going to change them. Eric Wrobel is unwilling to redesign anything at this point. Argonians are stuck with their crap.

blackronin83x · August 2015

@dodgehopper_ESO If there is anything I have learned from my time with this game it is that everything is on the table for change. Agree with you on redguards and khajit. While I like the direction they are going, they need to pump up the racial passives for these races to make them competitive.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2015

Don't

Junkogen wrote: »

The racials are what they are. They're never going to change them. Eric Wrobel is unwilling to redesign anything at this point. Argonians are stuck with their crap.

Hey Junkogen, don't lose hope. I know by a lot of your posts in the forums you're a big Argonian fan. I get the sense they are really trying to balance up the racials. Its never going to be perfect, but if they can get it close that's good enough for me.

Artis · August 2015

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

S

The Argonian gets +3% to health, +6% tri-resource return from potions, a weak poison/disease resistance, +6% healing reception and 50% swim speed. I'm surprised they didn't increase the max health on this race, although I actually have a preference on the reworking of this race. I am fine with Argonians having lower base attributes, but from a thematic perspective I really feel they should have the absolute highest health regeneration of any race (Hist skin). Additionally, I've always been surprised that they do not have a trait similar to stealthy, call it 'Guerrilla Warfare' lets say to give them a better stealth radius. Ultimately, I believe there are a lot of ways they could go with the Argonian but in its current state its still not enough. The Nord plays on the same faction and its just a better tank.

The other race which I feel is now behind is the Redguard. No other race is so heavily slanted toward Stamina bonuses, and yet it seems the least interesting for Stamina builds to me at this time. When I saw the Regeneration boost the Altmer received I was really confused they didn't push similar numbers on the Redguard. Its true Redguards get some extra stamina return (on melee striking) but it pales in comparison to Bosmer Stamina regeneration. If I want to play Stamina DPS, I just feel Bosmer and Orc are now going to be a much better option.

Khajiit still seems a bit inferior as well (If you have a tail it seems bad luck). I'm just not certain 2% more crit (to 8%) on weapons can even come close to comparing to the stamina/weapon damage numbers that one can get from a Bosmer, Redguard, Imperial or Orc. This race still feels inferior to the Bosmer for the stealthy role.

I have more thoughts on the subject matter but I just wanted to get the topic rolling here. Do you feel that ZoS is 'done' with fixing the racial passives or do they need to do a little more work?

1. So argonians have +21% resources after they drink a pot. Just chug them pots then, that's a nice bonus.
2. If redguards are behind, then you should also mention bretons which are the magicka analogue of redguards. But their 3% cost reduction is nothing, you can get it with any class simply by spending 6-7 CP. Compare this to 12% magicka recovery that altmers have now, to get it you need to spend 35 CP . 3000 spell resist is not a lot too. At least redguards have good stamina regen (2 passives are for that).

SlayerTheDragon · August 2015

I wish they would just drop the racials completely. You really have only three choices atm, Dunmer, Altmer, Imperial. Just drop them so that every class is equal.

AngryNord · August 2015

DonoVDV wrote: »

I wish they would just drop the racials completely. You really have only three choices atm, Dunmer, Altmer, Imperial. Just drop them so that every class is equal.

Only if they remove Elder Scrolls from the game's title as well.

Milktray · August 2015

I quite like my argonian nb

Winterpsy · August 2015

Argonian ability - Hide in water. I wanna see argonian gueriall squads approaching enemy keeps underwater, and setting up shallow water ambushes

istateres · August 2015

I like that the racial passives are representative of the races. What needs to happen isn't dropping them, but balancing them a bit more.

I'd like to see the Argonian posion / disease increased along with the swim speed (+75%).

13igTyme · August 2015

I agree with the talks about Argonians, Bretons, Redguards and Khajiit.

Bosmer has 1000 base stam, with passives has 1030 max with 216.3 regen, Redguard has 1000 base stam, with passives has 1100 max with 99 regen.

Khajiit are losing 10% health regen and gaining 10% stamina regen. Khajiit has 1000 base stam, and 100 regen with passives. Already ahead of Redguards.

dodgehopper_ESO · August 2015

Winterpsy wrote: »

Argonian ability - Hide in water. I wanna see argonian gueriall squads approaching enemy keeps underwater, and setting up shallow water ambushes

This is actually a pretty cool idea. Perhaps they're more stealthy around water? Kind of an odd mechanic but it does suit them well doesn't it. I somehow imagine a crocodile-style bellyswish as they get up near a beach.

AnAngryGinger · August 2015

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

(If you have a tail it seems bad luck)

That's because certain employees of Bethesda are trying to remove them from the game. I don't have solid evidence but if you look at how the two races have been handled in recent games they seem to want people playing only men and elves.

wrathofrraath · August 2015

I honestly have no clue what role Argonians passives in ESO are suppose to synergize with.

AnAngryGinger · August 2015

Nothing lol. They're garbage

13igTyme · August 2015

wrathofrraath wrote: »

I honestly have no clue what role Argonians passives in ESO are suppose to synergize with.

In past games and in Lore their seen as "Shadow scale" assassins and some women are seen as Mage healers.