Yeah, im not sure they can do much to fix some root problems like this in pvp... As long as there are stealth gankers everywhere you need a group... Changing this will just make it easier to gank people than it already is... Two most annoying things in pvp which happen to be the most popular forms of combat...

1.Go stealth/try to gank, it fails, go stealth 1 foot away from person, stay hidden until lower lvl comes by for you to gank...

2. Get into as large a group as possible to avoid ganking and obliterate any group you come across which is smaller than yours....

98% of the time pvp is either a gank fest or a zerg fest... when you do find a small group or 1v1 battle the cp advantages take over...
I still play pvp sometimes, but its hard to take it seriously.

I'm pretty sure fear/ mass hysteria is bugged, maybe it's just on console but so times i just can't break out of it.

Bash-ley wrote: »

I don't quite get this, ESO pvp takes place in a battleground during a huge war between three armies. I'm no battlefield expert... or ESO expert to be honest, but don't soldiers in a war tend to go around in big groups?

Not really , most wars aren't like the cliche you see on tv, wars are more hit and run, destroy small groups of troops, destroy supply lines, sabotage etc...

This is a fantasy mmorpg and just because you think in war soldier go round in big group still doesn't make the zerg enjoyable at all.

In pvp it's always drilled in your head to stick together. And as a player you eventually learn that the hard way by getting ganked by a few players when you don't stick together. So you stick together. And that works really well in battlegrounds type of PvP where both side have equal numbers.

Now when it comes to open world pvp, things get more complicated. Especially when you throw casual pvp'ers into the mix. You want to be in a group for safety. So you start steam rolling stuff or get steam rolled. The losing side then quits in frustration and the wining side quits of boredom.

Given that, what counter do you suggest that would prevent the casual PvP'er from just quitting? I think with IC the general idea is that the TV tokens can split into so many parts for large groups it just doesn't make sense to run in those groups. So I suspect that within a month or 2 of IC being live a lot of people will not run large groups. I think that will do more then any single ability crushing an entire group and making half of them quite in frustration and disgust.

Siege equipment duuh OP....









PURGEPURGEPURGEPURGE

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bash-ley wrote: »

I don't quite get this, ESO pvp takes place in a battleground during a huge war between three armies. I'm no battlefield expert... or ESO expert to be honest, but don't soldiers in a war tend to go around in big groups?

Not really , most wars aren't like the cliche you see on tv, wars are more hit and run, destroy small groups of troops, destroy supply lines, sabotage etc...

This is a fantasy mmorpg and just because you think in war soldier go round in big group still doesn't make the zerg enjoyable at all.

Theres a morter that the uk has can fire more then 10 shots that all land at the same time and exsplode at head hight so not to damage buildings or roads (no need to rebuild buildings) that decap or kill with the shock wave from more then 2mils away plus 100s of types of rockets that go 100s of miles that can hit a 2mm dot so no lol soldiers dont run about in big groups to be oneshot there in groups of 10 to 20 supported by commands at base or from the sky

There will never be a counter to zergs because ZOS loves zergs, no matter what they say about it. All combat in Cyrodiil is tuned to forcing you to join a large group. All abilities that help a single player fight many enemies have been NERFED.

"ZOS" stands for Zergs Oppressing Soloers.

zornyan wrote: »

I don't think zergs are that bad imo, far better than running around solo getting one shot all the time.

Plus it's medieval combat, without zergs and dozens of people attacking/defending keeps it would be boring. 90% of people on here that ask to stop zergs are people sat in stealth waiting to pick off stragglers.

i prefer small group encounters, im a fire dps dk, why would i stealth?

3v3 or 3v5 or such is what i like.

Zerg vs Zerg is just who has more people wins. It's boring.

ZoS has received a lot of feedback on ways to address zerging. They've done a few little things, but nothing big. I worry they are afraid to pull the trigger on anything too major because they don't want to upset the casual fanbase, which is probably the biggest portion of the game left at this moment.

Now, first, we have to acknowledge that zerging is always going to be a part of gameplay like this no matter what. When the last emp keep is being fought over, or a scroll, or some other major objective, a zerg in the truest sense is going to form up. With that being said, there are a lot of times players are just "zerging up" for the easy win and these types of behaviors are what need to be tackled.

A few things that might help curb the behavior:

1. First and foremost a considerable AP/XP/TVStone penalty. They would have to use the coding already in the game that tells you who is hitting what, etc. and create a scenerio where if a player(s) got steamrolled by X number of enemies over a certain amount, then they reward drops to little and eventually ZERO. Yes, you will still get steamrolled sometimes because you are in the way, but that will be the only reason to do at that point. They should also use this to determine who participated in fights at keeps, no more waiting for ticks or leeches, you just get the points for being in the radius (see below) and defending your objective.

2. Siege. They took steps at one point against zerging by upping damage from siege. Which was half a step. At this point anything that does more damage is more beneficial to the zerg than the guys fighting one however, as they have the extra people to go out of the immediate battle and set up siege. What should happen is that siege should scale the more people in an area it hits (if it's fire, lightning, cold, meat, etc type siege) so it is more effective to use against a mass of people than against one or two.

3. Prox. Det. - The changes they've made to the skill for the next patch don't do anything to help it against zergs and make it a little less useful overall. This should work almost how they have it, except it should start to scale up when it hits more than 4 people and continue to do more damage and not cap until about 25 people, doing a massive amount of damage at cap.

4. Stealth. You should not be able to stealth in large groups. Your stealth radius should start shrinking the more people next to you until once you get more than 6 people or so in the same area, it's a zero chance to stealth (not counting dark cloak). 24 man zergs stacked up behind a tree in a 2x2 area all in stealth should not be happening.

5. Abilities like Barrier and Purge need to be downscaled in power so they do not effect entire raid sizes. I would cap them at 6 people or split their effects up. Maybe you have a barrier that is 30K in power, you cast it on two people, they get 15K each, you cast it on 30, they get 1K each.

6. Group Size. Cap the group size at 12. This won't stop groups from working together and won't stop natural zergs from forming, but will stop people from just filling up a group for the heck of it to 24 because that's the max. If players know what they are doing, a group of 12 is plenty to do anything in the game and if two groups are organized and working together they can accomplish a lot. Plus, I truly believe this would help lag greatly. There are so many checks the game runs for every player in a group everytime something happens that's connected just because they are in a group. This is why you see the game stutter a moment when people join groups once they grow past 15 or so people. We've also been in some huge fights where you could tell players were not as congested because they were not in 24 man groups and had zero lag issues, then as soon as one big group shows up running in a pack things lag out. Groups of 12 would at least split the pack up a little, so even if fighting in same area, you would be clashing at two different spots and spread out a tiny bit. I could go on about this one as there are probably a hundred other benefits to doing this.

7. I would also put in some sort of keep boss. I would create a radius around every keep, maybe a bit bigger than the tick radius and include the resources. This radius would be the area you have to die in to respawn at a keep with no resources (so no blood porting) and also, the more enemy players in that radius, the stronger the keep boss is. Then you have to defeat the boss before you can flip flags. This may also address flipping flags in lag as if they boss isn't taking damage because of lag, then the flags cannot be flipped just by piling on them without actually defeating anything. (Other campaign changes in this vein would be having a keep flag as in under attack, but not cut port, earlier if it has more resources - you have 1 resource - flag at 50, 2 @ 60, all 3 - then 70%.)

8. Not sure how this effects zerging, perhaps just movement in general, but I would also turn gates and bridges into outposts of a sort. Let's face it, we usually have more interesting battles at mile-gates and bridges than we do at outposts half the time. And there is no way any military with half a brain would not want to control these types of positions. With this being said, what might help in the anti-zerging efforts are more small scale goals like this - spreading out other types of resource positions across the map that need to be taken and held by small scale groups.

Plenty won't like all these ideas, doesn't mean they wouldn't work or shouldn't be done. But that's just my opinion, it's not my game. Happy zerging.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bash-ley wrote: »

I don't quite get this, ESO pvp takes place in a battleground during a huge war between three armies. I'm no battlefield expert... or ESO expert to be honest, but don't soldiers in a war tend to go around in big groups?

Not really , most wars aren't like the cliche you see on tv, wars are more hit and run, destroy small groups of troops, destroy supply lines, sabotage etc...

This is a fantasy mmorpg and just because you think in war soldier go round in big group still doesn't make the zerg enjoyable at all.

This is incorrect. Today, with guns, wars tend to be many spread out battles in small/medium sized groups. But when a sword or a spear was the best weapon battles troops numbered in the thousands.